Cut first, then bulk? Or vice versa?

[GT2]

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[jimmyinkedup]

id say depends on when you want to "peak" ...JMO....

[GT2]

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[marcus300]

I'm going to be running Tren E 400mg/week for week 1-10 with TRT dose of Test Cyp 200mg/week for week 1-12.

I will also be running clen to speed up the cutting process.

At the moment I'm 5'8, 205lbs, about 14% bodyfat.

Should I cut first, THEN run my clean bulking cycle?

Or do my bulking cycle first, THEN cut?

If you cut before a bulking cycle you will be in a far better position to build quality muscle. When cutting you dont need aload of compounds do the cut via diet and cardio and create a very anabolic environment for when you start the bulk.

[GT2]

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[marcus300]

This was exactly what my rationale behind doing a cutter before a bulker. It seems we have a winner, but I'm open to hear more suggestions.

If you check out how much muscle contest guys put on after a show you will understand my theory regarding cut then bulk, when you cut you create a hugh anabolic window for muscle tissue to grow and if your fresh enough the body will build hugh amounts in a short period of time when you couple a bulking cycle with a bulking diet straight after a cut, if you bulk then cut your muscle to bodyfat ratio is out and you will tend to lay down further fat storage rather than build quality muscle.

Thing to do is try on method this time around and log results and compare.

[GT2]

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[D7M]

If you check out how much muscle contest guys put on after a show you will understand my theory regarding cut then bulk, when you cut you create a hugh anabolic window for muscle tissue to grow and if your fresh enough the body will build hugh amounts in a short period of time when you couple a bulking cycle with a bulking diet straight after a cut, if you bulk then cut your muscle to bodyfat ratio is out and you will tend to lay down further fat storage rather than build quality muscle.

Thing to do is try on method this time around and log results and compare.

Yep, this is by far the superior method.

[Drake Hotel]

If you check out how much muscle contest guys put on after a show you will understand my theory regarding cut then bulk, when you cut you create a hugh anabolic window for muscle tissue to grow and if your fresh enough the body will build hugh amounts in a short period of time when you couple a bulking cycle with a bulking diet straight after a cut, if you bulk then cut your muscle to bodyfat ratio is out and you will tend to lay down further fat storage rather than build quality muscle.

Thing to do is try on method this time around and log results and compare.

If that is so it's because of proper chemistry. Clean/naturally, a dieted down person who's lost mostly fat mass will also gain mostly fat mass when putting weight back on. If that same person had lost mostly lean mass he would gain mostly lean mass when putting weight back on.

[GT2]

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[marcus300]

If that is so it's because of proper chemistry. Clean/naturally, a dieted down person who's lost mostly fat mass will also gain mostly fat mass when putting weight back on. If that same person had lost mostly lean mass he would gain mostly lean mass when putting weight back on.

I completely disagree with this statement, the guy who as lost fat mass will not just put on fat mass when he bulks, that depends on his diet.

When you prime the body correctly you put it in a very anabolic state and if you couple this with a bulking cycle and clean diet you will build quality muscle tissue not fat mass,

[sigman roid]

If that is so it's because of proper chemistry. Clean/naturally, a dieted down person who's lost mostly fat mass will also gain mostly fat mass when putting weight back on. If that same person had lost mostly lean mass he would gain mostly lean mass when putting weight back on.

i certainly dont agree

[jimmyinkedup]

well marcus' point aside .....id bulk then cut...JMO...maybe do a short prime prior to bulk to maximize cycle benefit .... JMO

[GT2]

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[jimmyinkedup]

well considering time constraint id say 30-45 days...then cycle...id think you could look awesome by say jan with prime / cycle / time off/cut cycle .... JMO

[jimmyinkedup]

^^^ keep us posted..i too am interested in hearing how this turns out.....good info....
i question how you will "peak" at desired time this way ...but overall mass gain etc ..it does make sense ...

[GT2]

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[jimmyinkedup]

^ *L* i know the feeling ..and with a lean bulk...that cycle u have planned etc...could be very impressive....
and a thanks to marcus again for the info....

[GT2]

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[marcus300]

Its not even worth debating, of course you can diet down and reduce the bodyfat and build muscle tissue via training and diet and with the addition of drugs you can seriously have an anabolic advantage when it comes to building muscle, what your saying is utter garbage.

[Drake Hotel]

Its not even worth debating, of course you can diet down and reduce the bodyfat and build muscle tissue via training and diet and with the addition of drugs you can seriously have an anabolic advantage when it comes to building muscle, what your saying is utter garbage.

I didn't say any of that. I said that naturally dieted down individuals will gain back mostly what they lost. Of course they will also gain some muscle, otherwise no one would be able to build more mass once they've dieted, but the point is that if you lose mostly fat when you diet down, then that's what you're mostly gonna gain when you bulk up again. The body's not gonna be primed to turn whatever you put in it into muscle.

What I also said is that that all changes with drugs, which is a given. What I never said was that drugs can't give a seriously anabolic advantage.

[marcus300]

I didn't say any of that. I said that naturally dieted down individuals will gain back mostly what they lost. Of course they will also gain some muscle, otherwise no one would be able to build more mass once they've dieted, but the point is that if you lose mostly fat when you diet down, then that's what you're mostly gonna gain when you bulk up again. The body's not gonna be primed to turn whatever you put in it into muscle.

What I also said is that that all changes with drugs, which is a given. What I never said was that drugs can't give a seriously anabolic advantage.

Utter rubbish, of course you can diet down and reduce the bodyfat and build muscle tissue via training and diet you have no idea what your talking about, you might aswell say to fat guys stay fat because your going to put the fat back on anyway when you try to bulk up again,

Have you escaped from hospital or something?

[Drake Hotel]

Utter rubbish, of course you can diet down and reduce the bodyfat and build muscle tissue via training and diet

Again, I never said otherwise.

you have no idea what your talking about, you might aswell say to fat guys stay fat because your going to put the fat back on anyway when you try to bulk up again,

Have you escaped from hospital or something?

Why would I say that? Dieted down individual can certainly work out to become big and lean, but it will take longer time and they'd have to be more careful about diet.

http://www.ajcn.org/cgi/content/full/88/4/906

Good article by Lyle McDonald on this very subject: http://www.bodyrecomposition.com/mus...n-changes.html

[marcus300]

If that is so it's because of proper chemistry. Clean/naturally, a dieted down person who's lost mostly fat mass will also gain mostly fat mass when putting weight back on. If that same person had lost mostly lean mass he would gain mostly lean mass when putting weight back on.

Its clear what your saying, you written it in black and white above

Certainly diet's gonna make a difference, but you still gain mainly the same type of mass that you lost.

http://cat.inist.fr/?aModele=afficheN&cpsidt=3086592

Again here

I didn't say any of that. I said that naturally dieted down individuals will gain back mostly what they lost. Of course they will also gain some muscle, otherwise no one would be able to build more mass once they've dieted, but the point is that if you lose mostly fat when you diet down, then that's what you're mostly gonna gain when you bulk up again. The body's not gonna be primed to turn whatever you put in it into muscle.

What I also said is that that all changes with drugs, which is a given. What I never said was that drugs can't give a seriously anabolic advantage.

Again here

Again, I never said otherwise.




Why would I say that? Dieted down individual can certainly work out to become big and lean, but it will take longer time and they'd have to be more careful about diet.

http://www.ajcn.org/cgi/content/full/88/4/906

Good article by Lyle McDonald on this very subject: http://www.bodyrecomposition.com/mus...n-changes.html

Now you completely change your mind, I dont need to read studies, its plain and simple that what you said was wrong, you can diet down and lose body fat and build muscle tissue via training and diet, we all do it one way or the other,

[bjpennnn]

i am very excited to try this myself