Member
40 y.o running test cyp weekly...understnd about diet and cardio and so forth..just want to add something to give me that extra bit of "harder look", for the summer at least. all my experiece has ever been was test and decca. don't think i want to delve into the GH "just yet", just something to add to the weekly IM's.
thanx
Anabolic Member
Run Tren E with Test C, the esters are the same lenght.
Divide your shots E3D.
How much test are you running?
Member
cut back from 375 to 250 a week a feel better and less sides..
AR's Mass Monster
Yeh Tren works great i second that!
Anabolic Member
Brotha at 40 you are gonna do just fine with a little bitta tren and test.
Educate B4 You Medicate~HOF~RIP Our Brother~
Are you FREAKIN serious???Originally Posted by Dancer
You are gonna tell someone that has NEVER run tren to run TREN E???
that is TERRIBLE ADVICE !!!
If your bodyfat is decent, and you want to look hard for summer, run 6 weeks of Winny at the end of your cycle
DO NOT RUN TREN ENANTHATE for your first tren run !!!!!
Got Diet? ~VET~ AR Hall of Famer~
my thoughts exactly, if someone has only run test and deca, why the fvck would you guys tell him to run the most potent (gain and side wise) steroid we have access to? and even worse, to run the long ester, which would take several days to clear his system if he had a bad reaction to it(not allergic reaction, as in harsh sides)
bad advice guys
OP, listen to TMOS, he knows his shvt, winny would be a good start
Associate Member
Agree with T-Mos here! |Tren E is not good for first tren use! Iwould say use winny as a hardner! works well if your bodyfat is low, if its not dont bother tbh!
physical pain is temporary. It may last a minute, or an hour, or a day, or a year, but eventually it will subside... The pain of quiting will lasts forever!!
post you diet too... ever one says they have a good diet but would like to loose weight or look harder... diet maybe the key
Associate Member
the AR god has spoken
~Elite AR-Hall of Famer~
Can I be a demi-god or something else cool?
Educate B4 You Medicate~HOF~RIP Our Brother~
with that avy, you can be ANYTHING you want......hubba hubba
Banned
If you don't know what you're talking about, it's best to keep your mouth shut fellas.
T-Mos and Phate know their shit.
Tren's not for you right now man. Jeez.
Member
yes i agree..tren sounds a little scary..interesting though, but scary...doing research on proviron sounded very good, but hard to find..possibly another oral with close charachteristics?
Member
i agree as well..the only diet i could ever do with some success would be low carb..keep carbs under 30mg a day..do not have the discipline to do any other unfortunately
may not be the greatest diet in the world, but it the difference from 255 and 285 and i can live with that..
Member
You will love winny!!
Anabolic Member
Please elaborate the Difference between tren and TREN E?
Why would it make a difference on the first time tren user?
Does the ester make the androgen any differenct besides plasma level stabolization and lenght of life?
Last edited by Dancer; 05-31-2009 at 09:28 AM. Reason: addition
Associate Member
Just a question for phate, t-mos, big, powerliftermike, what about primo or masteron if the OP is opposed to winni?
It seems everyones favorite is tren, I know nothing about Tren, but I've heard people say they thought they were having a heart attack while on it, or they were more aggresive, or couldn't sleep. Again I'm not knocking it, I know nothing about it. It just seems like one of the stronger, hard to handle compounds.
Anabolic Member
Every one is different. Your reactions to a compound maybe cause you to have a set of reactions that another person using the same compund may or may not get.
You maybe the guy that can not sleep as well on tren. While another person using the same dosage will not feel any issue.
Age also makes a difference.
In more detail your HPTA and base hormonal levels in your 40s will not be the same as your 20s.
HRT for us older guys is a blessing.
To fear using a compund because it has a longer ester is something some one else will have to explain to me.
Associate Member
sorry, I tought the OP was dancer! My bad. Winni can jack your liver panel up, but it should return to normal after cycle. You could also run some niacin, milk thistle, and fish oil or CoQ10 while taking winni to help combat elevated values of cloest, bp, and liver. Just my 2 cents.
Anabolic Member
Bmp some one answer this please I gotta go hit cardio:
"Please elaborate the Difference between tren and TREN E?
Why would it make a difference on the first time tren user?
Does the ester make the androgen any differenct besides plasma level stabolization and lenght of life?"
Anabolic Member
your question was already answered
Anabolic Member
Does not really answer it.
What short term adverse reactions has tren been associated with on the first shot? More over give me some examples.
Educate B4 You Medicate~HOF~RIP Our Brother~
Yes, due to the ester. Tren has THE harshest sides of all compounds! and NOT everyone can handle them.
If you never ran it before, and you get terrible sides from it, and need to stop running it, the Enanthate ester will keep the sides going for two weeks!
Whereas the Acetate ester will have the sides done and gone in two, three days if he had to stop
Anabolic Member
Point taken, if one does experiance a side effect of lets say inablility to sleep, then the acetate ester will clear faster. For that matter other effects can stop quicker.
Perhaps I am a little old school here. All the effects positive or negative are known for the most part. If one does choose to use then its up to the individual to know it in the first place.
I can see where you are coming from...
Educate B4 You Medicate~HOF~RIP Our Brother~
True, but its one thing to know what the sides are and another to actually have to live with them day in and day out......and I say that being on Tren ACE now and knowing ALL the possible sides, but NOT liking the insomnia every freaking night.......LOLOL if you know what I mean...........
~Elite AR-Hall of Famer~
good proviron read:
However, a brief note on proviron. What evidence is there that proviron lacks androgenic activity. The literature presents this by the absence of proviron to influence significantly infertility, erythropoiesis, lipids, and sex hormones. Except for the obsessive compulsive that needs to take a substance, thus replacing an AAS with adverse HPTA effects with one that does not, proviron is a worthless AAS, useful for nothing. Proviron will not support or provide any basis for the return of HPTA function.
The quoted abstract from the study by Varma and Patel really does not give one any information. [Varma TR, Patel RH. The effect of mesterolone on sperm count, on serum follicle stimulating hormone, luteinizing hormone, plasma testosterone and outcome in idiopathic oligospermic men. Int J Gynaecol Obstet 1988;26:121-8.] The study is poor from the abstract alone. Please note that the statement, "Mesterolone had no depressing effect on low or normal serum FSH and LH levels but had depressing effect on 25% if the levels were elevated," refers unidentified group. The groups in the study include, "One hundred ten patients . . . had normal serum FSH, LH and plasma testosterone, 85 patients . . . had low serum FSH, LH and low plasma testosterone." Nowhere is there a group with elevated levels. Nonetheless, the cited effect is a "depressing effect" not stated as significant. Knowing the fluctuation in gonadotropin levels on testing even at a P<0.05 would not be meaningful. But it does go to the point that proviron has no adverse effect on the HPTA.
Mesterolone is useless for infertility. A year after the Varma study, 1989, the World Health Organization published a study demonstrating, "[n]o significant changes semen quality during the course of the study, apart from an increase in sperm concentration 3 months after the start of treatment. The increase was greatest among the placebo treated group, but did not differ significantly between treatment groups." [Mesterolone and idiopathic male infertility: a double-blind study. World Health Organization Task Force on the Diagnosis and Treatment of Infertility. Int J Androl 1989;12:254-64.]
In 1991, a study concludes, "Because similar semen improvement also occurred in the placebo controls, our findings cast doubt on the possible usefulness of high-dose Mesterolone treatment of idiopathic male infertility." [Gerris J, Comhaire F, Hellemans P, Peeters K, Schoonjans F. Placebo-controlled trial of high-dose Mesterolone treatment of idiopathic male infertility. Fertil Steril 1991;55:603-7.]
These confirm an earlier study from 1983. [Wang C, Chan CW, Wong KK, Yeung KK. Comparison of the effectiveness of placebo, clomiphene citrate, mesterolone, pentoxifylline, and testosterone rebound therapy for the treatment of idiopathic oligospermia. Fertil Steril 1983;40:358-65.] Treatment with the mesterolone (100 mg/day) therapy did not result in a significant increase in the mean sperm concentration or pregnancy in the partners.
Proviron is useless in promoting erythropoiesis (formation of red blood cell elements) and bone formation (a mixed effect of testosterone through the androgen receptor and estradiol receptor), both evidence of androgenic activity. Mesterolone (100 mg/d) is ineffective in raising hemoglobin and hematocrit levels significantly from baseline in individuals with hypogonadism. The study cites that Mesterolone did not increase serum testosterone (but also did not mention that there is a decrease). [Jockenhovel F, Vogel E, Reinhardt W, Reinwein D. Effects of various modes of androgen substitution therapy on erythropoiesis. Eur J Med Res 1997;2:293-8.]
As recent as 2003, mesterolone (100 mg/d) for 6 months administered to hypogonadal males failed to significantly raise bone mineral density (BMD). Treatment with testosterone undecanoate (160 mg/d), testosterone enanthate 250 mg (every 21 days), or a single subcutaneous implantation of 1,200 mg crystalline testosterone did result in BMD increases. [Schubert M, Bullmann C, Minnemann T, Reiners C, Krone W, Jockenhovel F. Osteoporosis in male hypogonadism: responses to androgen substitution differ among men with primary and secondary hypogonadism. Horm Res 2003;60:21-8.]
Erythropoiesis and bone formation are positive aspects of androgens useful under certain clinical conditions. AAS consistently have adverse effects on lipid profiles that are generally observed as a decrease in HDL (good cholesterol). In 1999, twenty years after the study cited by MaxRep [Nikkanen V. Plasma cholesterol, triglycerides, FSH and testosterone levels of normolipemic male patients with decreased fertility treated with mesterolone. Andrologia 1979;11:33-6.] proviron was found to adversely effect the lipid profile in hypogonadal men. The study by abstract analysis is hard to detail but an adverse effect of proviron is reported. Also, the study reports on serum testosterone levels with androgen treatments. Androgen substitution led to no significant increase of serum testosterone in the proviron group, subnormal testosterone in the testosterone undecanoate group, normal testosterone in the testosterone enanthate group, and high-normal testosterone in the crystalline testosterone group. The message is proviron did not affect the HPTA. [Jockenhovel F, Bullmann C, Schubert M, et al. Influence of various modes of androgen substitution on serum lipids and lipoproteins in hypogonadal men. Metabolism 1999;48:590-6.] The same author reports that proviron administration has no effect on serum FSH or testosterone. [Nikkanen V. The effects of mesterolone on the male accessory sex organs, on spermiogram, plasma testosterone and FSH. Andrologia 1978;10:299-306.]
I have said too much already. A further review of proviron literature will not change the use of proviron as an AAS for either anabolic or androgenic effects. Bottom line: Proviron is of no use for anything.
HRT Specialist ~ AR-Platinum Elite-Hall of Famer ~
Stop bumping old threads with your worthless posts.
There are currently 1 users browsing this thread. (0 members and 1 guests)
Posting Permissions
Reply With Quote