prop pain Ibuprofen hinder growth?

[Fe_Myofibril]

Someone told me that Ibuprofen hinders muscle growth. I'm on my third prop shot and have to get this pain under control it has me at a limp already. im changing from 50mg testp ed to 100mg eod im afraid to do my delts because if the pain in my quads and ass are the same in my delts i would not be able to use my freggin arms. I dont think it's an infection either because its not warm or red....yet whats the best thing to do for this kinda pain?

[stillandbox]

Ibuprofen is a NSAID (Non-steroidal Anti-inflamitory Drug). Nothing that I have ever heard or read about shows that they hinder muscle growth. In rare cases (1/2 of half of 1%) contract aseptic meningitis. That is the only thing I found that's remotely close to losing muscle, and that's not really close.

I think you'll be fine. The max dose per day recommended is 1200MG ED. I would stay around 600MG ED if you're taking any oral gear. Or if you need to take ibuprofen for the rest of your cycle since it's metabolized threw the liver.

All in all, you should be ok taking it.

hope that helped!

[millionairemurph]

Prop doesnt hurt. Its the way the stuff was made. Too high of a concentration of BA. "prop pain" is a myth in my opinion. I have used 200 mg/ml, i have used prop from several batches where i controlled all the variables like kind of oil, ba and bb amounts and have never had a problem.
So my recomendation for your badly made gear problem is rub it very hard right after you pull out the pin. I've read about guys using a massager or a heating pad.
The only thing that really hurts is winny, and the only thing that fixed it for me was a lot of pressure on the inj site,

[Fe_Myofibril]

Well thanks, Im only on trenA and prop right now but i was thinking about adding in some anavar toward the end, i'll be sure not put too much stress on the liver. meningitis seems like a left field side effect of one of the most common nsaid.

[stillandbox]

After typing that I just realized why you might think it hinders muscle development. "Non-steroidal"....

That just means that it does not stimulate muscle development in the anti-inflammatory process.

Example:

An asthmatic who has been having a prolonged attack would get the steroid Solu-medrol. It will help them in recovering their exhausted chest wall muscles and work as an anti-inflammatory.

If someone has pain, they don't need the muscle recovery and they just need the inflammation to go away, they take a NSAID.

[chuckt12345]

no i use advil daily because PROP DOES SUCK

[M302_Imola]

The best thing to do would be to cut the prop with sterile oil at a 1:1 ratio. Some say NSAID's hinder protein synthesis but this is a highly debated subject. A lot of body builders call it Vitamin I and pop 6-12 before and after workouts to ease the pain (although I would never suggest this). My thought is, if the pain is unbearable and is going to keep you out of the gym then go ahead and pop some vitamin I's.

[Fe_Myofibril]

i've never taken winny IM, but my brother has from two different labs. one he said hurt so bad he had to drink it insted and the other was pain free and worked great. I guess its the BA, damn i new i should have sprung for the more expensive prop, i know its real, too bad were not allowed to name the labs... might be able to shed more light on this situation...

[Fe_Myofibril]

Well here it goes im taking 600mgs of ibuprofen now hope im good for the gym in the next few hours.

[chuckt12345]

yea prop is pretty much a crap shoot,, some bttls are painless, others feel like satan himself is fkn yourasss

[RANA]

stick with what you are doing, ED injections. Give it a couple of weeks and your body will get used to it and it will not bother you.
I stay away from quads with prop, I do delts, pecs, glutes

[Immortal Soldier]

Ibuprofen is a NSAID (Non-steroidal Anti-inflamitory Drug). Nothing that I have ever heard or read about shows that they hinder muscle growth. In rare cases (1/2 of half of 1%) contract aseptic meningitis. That is the only thing I found that's remotely close to losing muscle, and that's not really close.

I think you'll be fine. The max dose per day recommended is 1200MG ED. I would stay around 600MG ED if you're taking any oral gear. Or if you need to take ibuprofen for the rest of your cycle since it's metabolized threw the liver.

All in all, you should be ok taking it.

hope that helped!

You are wrong

Let me show you why

If you are one of the many people who take a few Advil aspirin,or any other NSAID after a workout or in the days following to alleviate muscle soreness, think again! There is recent research that conclusively shows that taking NSAIDs after exercise-induced muscle damage significantly reduces levels of the prostaglandin, PGF2-α, which is intimately involved in the protein synthesis that occurs post-exercise; we work out, tear down our muscles, and the anabolic process of tissue repair and hypertrophy is dependent on levels of this prostaglandin.(1,2). It has been known for some time that maximal, prescription-level doses of NSAIDs will inhibit skeletal muscle protein synthesis, as the study in reference (2) below was performed in 1982. Most of these studies, however, utilized in-vitro systems where cultured myocytes were exposed to a stretch-stimulus to induce tissue damage and then protein synthesis was measured with-and without the presence of a high concentration of NSAID. As those of us in the field of pharmacology have (painfully) witnessed time-and time again, in-vitro systems are rarely representative of what actually occurs in-vivo. Because of this the notion that NSAID use after a workout might decrease muscular gains was passed off as an artifact of the experimental systems used; and not representative of what somebody would experience when taking over the counter doses of NSAIDs.

A group in 2001, however, using eccentric contractions in human subjects to induce muscle damage, showed that post-exercise NSAID use drastically reduced the increase in protein synthesis normally seen in response to muscle damage. This study is relevant to real workouts because the researchers used a model for muscle damage that is very similar to what what happens during a normal weight training workout and the doses of NSAIDs used in the study were normal therapeutic doses, not unlike those that most people would take for a headache or after a tough workout for soreness.(3) The results of this study were that, in the untreated subjects, post-exercise muscle protein synthesis (24 hours post-workout) increased in upwards of 76%, while subjects that received either acetaminophen or ibuprofen saw no significant increase at all. The implications of this study are huge; if you are into taking a few Advil after a tough workout to alleviate soreness, think again; you may be severely hindering your progress.

It is important to know the mechanism behind such a phenomena because it may be possible that we can use this to our advantage. NSAIDs inhibit the enzyme COX-1 and COX-2, which basically take a common substrate, arachidonic acid, and through a cascade of biochemical reactions create a number of prostaglandins. Some Prostaglandins cause inflammation and are largely responsible for the pain response we get after a workout. Reducing prostaglandin synthesis by inhibiting the COX enzyme can reduce pain and inflammation, but at the same time reduction of the specific prostaglandin, PGF2-α has a dramatic effect on the ability of muscles to hypertrophy(2,4). Intuitively, this makes sense, because inflammation is intimately involved with the healing process. Although there are certainly situations when reducing inflammation is beneficial, after a weight training workout is clearly not one of them.

The pathway is outlined below and as you can see, inhibiting COX will have the effect of reducing PGF2-α, inhibiting the ever-so-important protein synthesis that occurs to repair the muscle and allow it to hypertrophy. So there you have it, convincing evidence that NSAIDs after a workout inhibit muscle gains.

[stillandbox]

So there you have it, convincing evidence that NSAIDs after a workout inhibit muscle gains. [/I]

I was talking about before...as has been said by others, I too have heard of pro's taking massive amouts of ibuprofen before workouts.

What group did the study? I'd like to read a little more about that, I've never heard of ibuprofen hindering protein synthesis. As HIV patients regularly take ibuprofen and muscle retention is key to survival and general well being of these patients.

[stillandbox]

I also found this:

http://www.arthritis.org/ibuprofen-muscle-mass.php

"Doctors have known for some time that strengthening your quadriceps – the strong muscles at the front of your thigh – can help ease the pain of arthritic knees. Now research shows that the medications you take to ease arthritis pain can help you strengthen your quadriceps.

In research conducted at Ball State University's Human Performance Laboratory, in Muncie, Ind., 36 men and women between the ages of 60 and 78 were randomly assigned to take standard daily dosages – comparable to that which people with chronic arthritis pain might take – of either ibuprofen or acetaminophen or a placebo. The particpants then went to work in the lab, doing 15- to 20-minute weight training sessions three times a week for three months.

While all of the particpants experienced improvements in quadriceps muscle mass and strength over the three-month course of the study, magnetic resonance imaging (MRI) showed that the increase of muscle mass in the ibuprofen and acetaminophen users was significantly greater.

Building strength has built steam as a great way to help people with arthritis function better and relieve soreness, stiffness and pain. Arthritis Today recently reported on a study from Great Britain showing that strength-training may improve physical function in people with mildly disabling, well-controlled RA.

Interestingly, an earlier study by researchers at the same lab showed a negative effect of ibuprofen and acetaminophen on muscle over a 24-hour period. Longer-term, however, regular use of ibuprofen or acetaminophen during strength training appears to have induced intramuscular changes that enhance the metabolic response to resistance exercise, allowing the body to add substantially more new protein to muscle, says Todd Trappe, PhD, associate professor of physical education at Ball State.

The researchers are now testing muscle biopsies taken before and after the three-month strength-training program in order to understand for the drugs’ positive long-term effect on muscle mass.

It should be noted that taking more than one anti-inflammatory med at a time may be harmful to your heatlh."

So I guess YOU ARE WRONG

[chuckt12345]

i could prb find some research that it makes your dk bigger too

[Fe_Myofibril]

well, its been a while and im not limping around anymore. I guess its better off i take it than limp around the gym like a big dummy and risk falling. Im going to go with another brand next time. im not going to take it after the gym though, I did do another shot. Im going to keep it on an everyday schedule since its such a short acting compound. Thanks for everyones input. too bad no one has a twin brother or sister and wants to test this hinderance themselves.

[The Deuce]

If Ibuprofen or the rest of the family of NSAID hindered growth that bad then.. lol... I would still be a small weakling !! But I am not.. really there can be all these SCIENTIFIC STUDIES saying this or claiming that but in reality the only real way to know is to try it yourself.. you can't really live off of a scientific study.. there are many different factors in every study.. they just ahhhhhh I hate scientific studies !! THEY DONT APPLY TO EVERYONE yet EVERYONE is quick to just believe these studies !! It's stressful !! Yes maybe... maybe NSAIDS limit protein synthesis and growth of muscle tissue.. it would make sense since it is an ANTI-INFLAMMATORY but I am strong, I am big, I am muscular, and for the MOST PART I am PAIN-FREE !! If I have hindered my muscle growth by taking it...over the many years I have been a weight lifter/powerlifter THEN oh well at least I did it being able to MOVE !! I don't overuse Ibuprofen ... maybe 3 times per week (when absolute needed) but what GOOD am I doing my body or my muscle for that matter if I can't LIFT because my BODY is racked with Pain?? None !! I would rather sacrifice some muscle growth and protein synthesis...

AND !!!

I guarantee that this study was done on individuals who weren't using AAS or HGH ... those compounds account for a lot.. allowing to break past the plateaus ...


POINT being... if you are in Pain.. and can't move... then take IBUPROFEN.. your body will thank you .. and I promise you that you wont shrivel up to nothing if you do this.

[Nicotine]

im running prop now, that has a fairly high BA content....

what i found works for me, is 1/2cc or 1cc of B12 injectable drawn into the same syringe.

1 1/2 ml of prop (100mg/ml, so 150mg total EOD), plus 1cc of b12 injectable - it really cuts down on how much the BA sucks.....

[stillandbox]

Well said Deuce

[Immortal Soldier]

I also found this:

http://www.arthritis.org/ibuprofen-muscle-mass.php

"Doctors have known for some time that strengthening your quadriceps – the strong muscles at the front of your thigh – can help ease the pain of arthritic knees. Now research shows that the medications you take to ease arthritis pain can help you strengthen your quadriceps.

In research conducted at Ball State University's Human Performance Laboratory, in Muncie, Ind., 36 men and women between the ages of 60 and 78 were randomly assigned to take standard daily dosages – comparable to that which people with chronic arthritis pain might take – of either ibuprofen or acetaminophen or a placebo. The particpants then went to work in the lab, doing 15- to 20-minute weight training sessions three times a week for three months.

While all of the particpants experienced improvements in quadriceps muscle mass and strength over the three-month course of the study, magnetic resonance imaging (MRI) showed that the increase of muscle mass in the ibuprofen and acetaminophen users was significantly greater.

Building strength has built steam as a great way to help people with arthritis function better and relieve soreness, stiffness and pain. Arthritis Today recently reported on a study from Great Britain showing that strength-training may improve physical function in people with mildly disabling, well-controlled RA.

Interestingly, an earlier study by researchers at the same lab showed a negative effect of ibuprofen and acetaminophen on muscle over a 24-hour period. Longer-term, however, regular use of ibuprofen or acetaminophen during strength training appears to have induced intramuscular changes that enhance the metabolic response to resistance exercise, allowing the body to add substantially more new protein to muscle, says Todd Trappe, PhD, associate professor of physical education at Ball State.

The researchers are now testing muscle biopsies taken before and after the three-month strength-training program in order to understand for the drugs’ positive long-term effect on muscle mass.

It should be noted that taking more than one anti-inflammatory med at a time may be harmful to your heatlh."

So I guess YOU ARE WRONG

Read the article, the article is based on study of increasing strength of muscles in front of thight in people with arthitic knees. So what do you think will cause people to build more muscle? Someone who lifts through pain because of arthitis in their knees or someone who lifts with the arthitis under control?

The study even agreed with my point

Interestingly, an earlier study by researchers at the same lab showed a negative effect of ibuprofen and acetaminophen on muscle over a 24-hour period.

that the use of NASID showed a negative effect on muscle and protein synthesis in a 24 hour peroid which is what I said. You posted a study that showed the long term effects on the body on people with arthitis in their knees. Thats like saying are you going to make better muscle gains with a tear tendon or if you get it repaired. If you read the study the patients worked out 3 times a day for 20 minutes. You cannot compare that to a steroid user who works out 5 times a week for 60-90 minutes if not more. You said taking it before or after it doesnt matter because it inhibits for 24 hours so it will effect your post-workout or your next workout if you continue use.

As I said it does negatively effect the muscle and protein synthesis rate but it isn't enough to make MASSIVE amount of a difference. No, you aren't going to lose out on 10lbs on muscle per cycle because you take NASID, thats not what I mean. It makes an effect in the short term, but in the long run it balances out.

As for the pro's taking massive dosages, the pros are also on IGF, HGH, high dosages of test and other steroids, etc. so iboprofuen isn't going to make a difference for them. Like I said long term it balances out.