Its time to cycle...but there is some uncertainty...anyone want to help?

[BadNewsBerto]

ive been planning on my first cycle for quite some time now... i dont know everything, but i do have a general knowlede of most subtanes and how they work in the body, how to use them, proper pct, as well as how to treat/prevent potential sides. ive literally been researching for years!

My stats are:
25
5'9"
184lbs
bf. uncertain(have small spare tire, can see outline of abs)
1.5 years training seriously

i currently lift a 3 day split, with fasted am cardio 7 days a week, and a second afternoon cardio session on non lifting days.

ive cut down naturally (eca i considerd natty right) over the last 6 months from 213 pounds to my current 184lbs

i have spent time in the diet forum tweaking my diet to perfection here it is:

MY DIET

BMR = 66 + ( 6.23 x 184 ) + ( 12.7 x 69 ) - ( 6.8 x 25 )

= 1852.62

Daily caloric needs
1852.62 x 1.55 = 2871.6


5:45am
1 scoop whey
BCAA

CARDIO

7am
1cup oats
8 egg whites
1 cup green tea


9am
1 can tuna in water
1 tblsp almond oil

11am
salmon
3 cups green leafy salad
1 tblsp EVOO

1pm
large chicken breast
yams/sweet potatoe
1 cup green tea

WORKOUT

3pm
1.5cups leafy greens
1 cup brown rice
1tblsp walnut oil
turkey cold cuts

530pm
lean beef
veggys

830pm
grilled london broil
1 tblsp EVOO
fish oil caps

MACROS
cals2700
fat 110
carb 205
pro 220

My original thought was to run this cycle:

1-10 Tbol(oral turanibol) 50mgED
1-8 clen (slowly ramping up to gauge tollerance)100mcg
2-8 ketotifen 2mg ED (to keep receptors fresh)
1-8 t3 cytomel 100mcg (ramping up and down)

PCT
nolva 40/40/20/20

my logic behind this was, having heard several times "your first test cycle is your best cycle ever", that i should save the test for a bulker once i dropped my bf to a point i was happy with.

goal being to get bf low and add some lbm at an acellerated rate...
What do you guys think?
Do you have a better cycle choice?

I can here the "test only" & "you only need diet and cardio"replies already lol, hopefully your taking my goals into consideration before you respond this way.

thanks guys... looking forward to you input...sorry about the long ass post

[c-Z]

How tall are you bro? 184lbs doesn't seem heavy at all.... Probably almost easier to just go a little stricter with the diet to loose a bit more. I see your goal is to get the bf% low. But if you don't know what it is now. How low are you trying to go without knowing the % now?

Test YES is a good beginner cycle. I wouldn't personally run that. Like I said 184lbs isn't a lot of weight unless your like 5'2 and fattttt... but i highly doubt that.

It seems like your eating healthy. Understand that you don't have to run full blown test cycle. It's your choice to stack on a first cycle. I would definitely get some test in there somewhere........ Even if you do a lower dose.

[BadNewsBerto]

lol im 5'9, and probably between 15-18% bf...i really cant be sure, never been tested, and dont really have anything to compare to..

[BadNewsBerto]

all i know is i want to get to a point where i have a visible 6 pack, and start to build lbm from there. with an attempt to stay on the lean side

[c-Z]

Honestly... That is not bad at all... I wouldn't personally dump any drugs into my body to drop some lbs. Why not just post a pic up and get a guesstimate on the bf %?

[CHAP]

Sounds like you have done your studies and I want to say go for it...But would like to see a pic?

I have seen guys at 175 that looked bigger tha me at 220 , and they were natural.

[BadNewsBerto]

yea i could do that.. lets hope im not utterly out of bf range...but before you flame keep in mind i was nearly 30 pounds heavier 6 months go...gimme 10 to get the pic up though

[BadNewsBerto]

edited

[BadNewsBerto]

bump for bf guesstimate

[BadNewsBerto]

anyone??

removing pic soon here

[stpete]

It would help if you turned so we could see the front, but you're more than 15-18% imo.

[BadNewsBerto]

yea, im really not sure of my bf, thats why im hoping to get something... i ordered calipers, but its not like those are that accurate unless you have a ton of experience soo.

[BadNewsBerto]

i know my bf is high, just dont have a number to put to it

[Noles12]

18-20%. And you need to build your base more and get your diet in check before considering aas

[BadNewsBerto]

ur right my base could be better, but most peoples could be b4 using AAS

as for as my diet...its been working for me this far if you read my OP, and i just had it overhauled in the diet forum, so im ready to go!

and the bf is what i want to deal with...ive been at it for 6 months now, and i wanna get rid of it. im so tired of cutting..arg

thanks for your reply...
appreciate it bro

[Noles12]

Just rule of thumb is to cycle at lower bf because at a higher % you are more likely to experience sides such as gyno. Just stick to the diet for a little longer and then start

[BadNewsBerto]

Just rule of thumb is to cycle at lower bf because at a higher % you are more likely to experience sides such as gyno. Just stick to the diet for a little longer and then start

i hear yea...

allthough im still considering the tbol/clen /t3

i dont think estro sides will even become an issue...

the test on the other hand, maybe another story

[Noles12]

tbol/clen /t3 is terrible it will shut you down

[BadNewsBerto]

really?

i know theres bound to be some shut down with the tbol...but everything i know about it says its mild, slightly more the anavar ...not nearly as supresive as test...

if you look at the op i am planning on a pct as well

clen acts like a stimulant

t3 suppreses thyroid

do u mean to say a cycle lke that would cause serious estro sides?

[BadNewsBerto]

i dont see that happenin!

not trying to be an ass here btw

[Noles12]

The only oral alone i would ever run is anavar . Everyone is different when it comes to sides but it seems to hold true that at higher bf estrogen sides are more prevalent

[Dancer]

1-10 Tbol(oral turanibol) 50mgED

YOu really need 500 or so mg of test EW to counter the catabolic state


1-8 clen (slowly ramping up to gauge tollerance)100mcg

2 weeks on 2 week off, the off two weeks run ECA... You will be back to the receptor unreg after that

2-8 ketotifen 2mg ED (to keep receptors fresh)

Run it with ECA at night only prior to bed

1-8 t3 cytomel 100mcg (ramping up and down)

8 weeks in 2-3 weeks to long... 100mcg is way to much

Basically I really don't like the concept at all behind any of it....

If your goal is retention of gained LBM and loss of BF then you have to set yourself up for it...

[Phate]

really?

i know theres bound to be some shut down with the tbol...but everything i know about it says its mild, slightly more the anavar ...not nearly as supresive as test...

if you look at the op i am planning on a pct as well

clen acts like a stimulant

t3 suppreses thyroid
suppresses thyroid? how do you figure that?
do u mean to say a cycle lke that would cause serious estro sides?

tbol can't aromatize due to it's A-ring configuration so no estro sides, but it will suppress you

[CrazyHorse13]

Hey Dancer...could you help me out with a cycle...Sorry to but in

[BadNewsBerto]

i agree with your statement upon prinsiple, no argument there, but i think the pros outway the cons in my case, in regards tomy personal goals...im sure i could keep any unwanted sides at bay with a little adex...but to be honest, i doubt itll be necesary.

not dissagreeing with you

[Phate]

Basically I really don't like the concept at all behind any of it....

If your goal is retention of gained LBM and loss of BF then you have to set yourself up for it...

dancer-you don't run ECA with clen , even on the off weeks due to the fact that ephedrine hits beta 2 receptors as well so you will just be continuously downregulating them and rendering both the ECA and clen useless

[Phate]

Hey Dancer...could you help me out with a cycle...Sorry to but in

you dont need a cycle, and no we wont help you with sources

[Noles12]

dancer-you don't run ECA with clen, even on the off weeks due to the fact that ephedrine hits beta 2 receptors as well so you will just be continuously downregulating them and rendering both the ECA and clen useless

im glad you caught that because i was just about to comment on that also

[BadNewsBerto]

thanks for chiming in phate...what isyou opinion?

[Phate]

im glad you caught that because i was just about to comment on that also

5 minutes later and you would have had too, i'm going to sleep

[Phate]

The only oral alone i would ever run is anavar. Everyone is different when it comes to sides but it seems to hold true that at higher bf estrogen sides are more prevalent

i agree noles but oral turinabol and anavar can't be aromatized so no estro sides from them at all

[Phate]

thanks for chiming in phate...what isyou opinion?

i think you should run the diet/cardio/training regimen we are in the process of helping you build for 5-6 months, then we could POSSIBLY but improbably consider adding clen

as for AS, no

[Dancer]

tbol can't aromatize due to it's A-ring configuration so no estro sides, but it will suppress you

Suppress like a mofo....


http://books.google.com/books?id=L0B...esult&resnum=2

read pages 480-490

Introduction of endogenous t3 caused the thyroid function to slowly supress after 5 weeks


This one is better: after 4 weeks>>>


http://jnm.snmjournals.org/cgi/reprint/20/9/928.pdf

[Noles12]

I wasn't referring to the tbol when making that comment. i should have added more in. I was referring to the reason why cycling in general at higher bf% is not a great idea. With the tbol i just wouldn't do it due to it suppressing test

[Phate]

damn i'm tired, my bad guys, i misread his thing on t3 suppressing the thyroid, i thought he was saying taking t3 will suppress the function of the thyroid, which is metabolism

yeah, i don't know how i messed that up that bad either, lol

[Dancer]

dancer-you don't run ECA with clen, even on the off weeks due to the fact that ephedrine hits beta 2 receptors as well so you will just be continuously downregulating them and rendering both the ECA and clen useless

I need to be more clear 2 week of clen then stop the clen. For the next 2 weeks run ECA without using clen...

Late night retart moment...

[Phate]

I wasn't referring to the tbol when making that comment. i should have added more in. I was referring to the reason why cycling in general at higher bf% is not a great idea. With the tbol i just wouldn't do it due to it suppressing test

yeah i know what you were saying, i agreed with the estro sides higher bf thing, i was just pointing out that tbol can't aromatize for berto

[Dancer]

and on the off weeks run the keto, it is true that E does hit both B-1 and B-2 recp however to a much lesser degree...

No I am not looking the damn study up

[Noles12]

I need to be more clear 2 week of clen then stop the clen. For the next 2 weeks run ECA without using clen...

Late night retart moment...

Not good its just like running clen straight for those 4 weeks. Its still down regulating

[Phate]

I need to be more clear 2 week of clen then stop the clen. For the next 2 weeks run ECA without using clen...

Late night retart moment...

it'll still downregulate, it's possible with a high dose of ketotifen fumarate he could upregulate in the presence of ECA, but if he has keto he should just be running clen for 6-8 weeks straight

either way, clen 2 weeks on 2 weeks off with nothing on the off weeks is the best way to utilize the clen and minimize risk of heart cell damage