What is the down side to starting using steroids at a low weight?

[Freefalling]

Considering i've been bodybuilding for 10 years. And know how to diet like a pro. And im 26. And my weight is 175lb @ %10 bf. And i know all there is to be known about steroids ... What would be the down side to starting using steroids now?...before increasing my weight naturaly.

[Big]

how tall are you? what are your goals?

[Freefalling]

6'5. Goal 230 @ %8 bf

[Big]

Considering i've been bodybuilding for 10 years. And know how to diet like a pro. And im 26. And my weight is 175lb @ %10 bf. And i know all there is to be known about steroids... What would be the down side to starting using steroids now?...before increasing my weight naturaly.

6'5. Goal 230 @ %8 bf

Knowing how to diet like a pro is nice, but you actually have to do it. 6'5" and 175 at 10% leaves a LOT of room for natural growth.

[Dukkit]

if you start steroids before upping your body weight naturally

youll look like my avy

after 4 cycles

do you really wanna look like that my friend?

[jj0824]

Look sexy? why yes ofcourse.

the avatar is u after 4 cycles?

[Big]

the avatar is u after 4 cycles?

I'm wondering the same thing. I'm guessing his most recent posts in the Q+A are supposed to be funny or sarcastic, but they are likely quite confusing to the OP.

[ninesecz]

Here is the prolbem I can see. If you have been working out for 10 years and know your diet in and out. how is it you do not realize that you just need to bu mp up the caloric/protein intake 20-40% and that will stimulate growth! The more natural BW you have the better results the aas will give you and the more you will keep!

[T-MOS]

Plain and simple.

If you can't EAT to get to your Natural limit first which at 6'5 would be in the neighborhood of 240-260, then the downside is that you will lose most if not all of your gains as it will take even MORE food and proper calories to maintain whatever gains you may make.

and seeing as how you can't seem to eat enough to grow NOW, what makes you think that you will magically be able to eat correctly JUST because you are using steroids ??

That is why it is SO important to LEARN how to eat to grow to at least your Natural Potential NOW so that you are not wasting your time, energy, money, gear and stressing your body when you will just lose most of it after putting your body through all that.....just my 2 cents

[Dancer]

/\To build on that the AVI is from an individual that that does weight in the 160s and is 6'2'' premature start of aas can have negative results... Unless this is the look you are going for.

[Freefalling]

I figured you guys will say that...and i agree with you. But the thing is... Im eating 4500 calories a DAY!! Thats about a 1000 calories above my maintainance (TDEE). ONE THOUSAND!

Macros are %45 protein, %35 carbs, %20 fat. And im talking lean protein like tuna, skinless grilled chicken, egg whites...etc. And organic carbs and good fats like extra virgin olive oil, flax seed.

6 meals a day...a meal every 3 hours. This is not to mention the supplements i take, such as amino acids, glutamine and multi vitamins.

And in case you figure i should change my macros... Been there, done that! Im very carb sensitive. If i increase the carbs. I will definately gain fat! Fat that i worked super hard to loose. Of course i could just let myself go and not care about the fat that ill gain as long as im gaining muscle. And later on, when ive gained enough muscle, i could go on a cutting diet. But then...getting rid of the fat is super hard for me...problem being i gain fat only in the wrong places... Eventually ill get rid of the fat...but by then i will have lost almost all the muscle i had gained in the process. So now i am back to square one.

So all the calories im eating and still it seems like i cant gain a single pound! I could of course increase my calorie intake, but that wont do much good. I increase it by 300...a week or two max and i hit a plateau. Then ill have to increase it again...2 weeks later same thing happenes. Next thing you know....ill be eating DOUBLE my TDEE and ill have gained only 10lbs.

So thats why im considering steroids cz i think i reached my max genetic potential.

Ps. In case youre wondering about my bodybuilding routine... Im currently on a HIT program. 2 days a week. Low rep till failure. 2 - 3 sets per exercise. I change my bodybuilding program ever 12 weeks so that my body doesnt adapt to the program.

[Immortal Soldier]

6'5 175lbs and I am supposed to believe you have been bodybuilding for 10 years?

You are doing SOMETHING wrong if your at that weight.

[Juturna]

^ x2

[manwitplans]

I figured you guys will say that...and i agree with you. But the thing is... Im eating 4500 calories a DAY!! Thats about a 1000 calories above my maintainance (TDEE). ONE THOUSAND!

Macros are %45 protein, %35 carbs, %20 fat. And im talking lean protein like tuna, skinless grilled chicken, egg whites...etc. And organic carbs and good fats like extra virgin olive oil, flax seed.

6 meals a day...a meal every 3 hours. This is not to mention the supplements i take, such as amino acids, glutamine and multi vitamins.

And in case you figure i should change my macros... Been there, done that! Im very carb sensitive. If i increase the carbs. I will definately gain fat! Fat that i worked super hard to loose. Of course i could just let myself go and not care about the fat that ill gain as long as im gaining muscle. And later on, when ive gained enough muscle, i could go on a cutting diet. But then...getting rid of the fat is super hard for me...problem being i gain fat only in the wrong places... Eventually ill get rid of the fat...but by then i will have lost almost all the muscle i had gained in the process. So now i am back to square one.

So all the calories im eating and still it seems like i cant gain a single pound! I could of course increase my calorie intake, but that wont do much good. I increase it by 300...a week or two max and i hit a plateau. Then ill have to increase it again...2 weeks later same thing happenes. Next thing you know....ill be eating DOUBLE my TDEE and ill have gained only 10lbs.

So thats why im considering steroids cz i think i reached my max genetic potential.

Ps. In case youre wondering about my bodybuilding routine... Im currently on a HIT program. 2 days a week. Low rep till failure. 2 - 3 sets per exercise. I change my bodybuilding program ever 12 weeks so that my body doesnt adapt to the program.

If you can't gain weight of the same calories, you have to up it (or cut some of your activites).

If you are really eating that clean, and have problems gaining weight. get a weightgainer or some shit like that.

but seriously, if you ain't gaining weight, you ain't eating enough.
I don't care what your TDEE is.. Everyone is different.

I bulk on 600g carbs and from 4000 to 5000 calories (and I am 6' and weighed about 224 on the peak of my bulker). your 5 freakin inches higher then me, that would mean quite a bit of calories, and you probably have a sick metabolism, so eat ..

[ZoneBlitz]

You are 6'5", 175lbs, you eat 4500 calories a day, you lift only two days a week, AND you can't gain a pound? Neither fat nor muscle on 4500 calories?

Do you run all day on a treadmill or something?

What do you do for work?

[higherdesire]

I am calling BS on 4500 cals per day and still 165. I am sorry bro but it ain't so. Throw it (diet macros in details) up on the board and prove me wrong please.

[Twist]

i agree throw it up on the board. but i do not say it is impossible. people grossly underestimate genetics. especially on this board.

[Freefalling]

If you can't gain weight of the same calories, you have to up it (or cut some of your activites).

If you are really eating that clean, and have problems gaining weight. get a weightgainer or some shit like that.

but seriously, if you ain't gaining weight, you ain't eating enough.
I don't care what your TDEE is.. Everyone is different.

I bulk on 600g carbs and from 4000 to 5000 calories (and I am 6' and weighed about 224 on the peak of my bulker). your 5 freakin inches higher then me, that would mean quite a bit of calories, and you probably have a sick metabolism, so eat ..

im not saying i cant gain WEIGHT at all. I could but it will be FAT WEIGHT. If you see my macro in my previous post...its high protein, low carbs. The reason for that is because im carb sensitive. So if i increase my carbs, i would gain weight...but the weight will be FAT. And if i increase the protein, it wont make much of a difference, meaning i wont really gain that much muscle. My problem is gaining MUSCLE, not gaining weight. Hence, i think i reached my max genetic potential when it comes to MUSCLE. At least thats what i think...

[Twist]

i say it could be possible but throw your diet up. ps I felt i was in the same boat and then found out about sticking points. I had to up my calories to 5-6k a day to break that sticking point and I am only up about 2lbs. been eating like a horse6-8 times a day. I am only 160lbs at 5'8" it is a struggle.

[ZoneBlitz]

You say you're not getting bigger...

Are you getting stronger?

[Freefalling]

You say you're not getting bigger...

Are you getting stronger?

used to. But not that much now. I try to increase the weight by 0.5lb or so on every workout...but i always get stuck on the same weight...and sometimes i do lower weight than the previous workout...now that is EXTREMELY FRUSTRATING!

[higherdesire]

There are obviously many layers to this thing. FreeFalling, please post up your diet and your work out routine if oyu want real lasting help we will give it to you. Something is off and unless you fix it gear will be a short term gratification followed by frustrations losing anything you had gained.

[ZoneBlitz]

Well, it really looks like your not eating enough total calories..

You're not over-training, that's for sure.

The fact that you often push less weight in your workout than you did in your previous one (and you're not on a cutting diet) suggests to me that you are not taking in enough nutrients to properly recover. Your body will break down your undamaged muscles for the aminos to repair the damaged muscle tissue if another source of protein and energy is not available in sufficient quantities to handle it. This is of course counterproductive.

It's hard to believe that this is happening to you considering what you say you eat per day. If you truly are eating that much, you simply have to eat more than that.

Do you have a physically demanding job where you burn a lot of calories?

Do you often feel like you are just drained of energy during the day?

[Freefalling]

There are obviously many layers to this thing. FreeFalling, please post up your diet and your work out routine if oyu want real lasting help we will give it to you. Something is off and unless you fix it gear will be a short term gratification followed by frustrations losing anything you had gained.

im trying to higherdesire, but this damn thing isnt letting me... Its an excel sheet. ill try to upload it to a web server and post the link. Just a sec

[higherdesire]

No one is really going to want to mess around with links and attachements. try just typing it bro. It is workd but it makes it easy on everyone else whoe is here to help you and shows respect to them from you. Look forward to seeing your information.

[Freefalling]

Typing it is going to take hours! Its very detailed. in short:

breakfast:
25 egg whites fried in
6 grams of extra virgin olive oil
125 grams tomato
15 grams onion
100 grams of whole wheat bread
protein shake with milk

Snack:
tuna paties:
110 grams oatmeal
150 grams tuna in water
10 grams onions
15 grams bell pepper
6 grams extra virgin olive oil
protein shake with milk

lunch:
150 grams tuna in water
15 grams mayo lite
125 grams tomato
15 grams onions
15 grams bell pepper
100 grams whole wheat bread

snack:
15 egg whites, friend in 6 grams of extra virgin olive oil
80 grams peas
125 grams tomato
protein shake with milk

Dinner
250 grams grilled chicken breast
lettuce
125 grams tomato
100 grams peas
15 grams mayo lite or 6 grams extra virgin olive oil
protein shake with milk

snack
200 grams fat free cottage cheese
1 can tuna
mixed green salad

[ninesecz]

I figured you guys will say that...and i agree with you. But the thing is... Im eating 4500 calories a DAY!! Thats about a 1000 calories above my maintainance (TDEE). ONE THOUSAND!

Macros are %45 protein, %35 carbs, %20 fat. And im talking lean protein like tuna, skinless grilled chicken, egg whites...etc. And organic carbs and good fats like extra virgin olive oil, flax seed.

6 meals a day...a meal every 3 hours. This is not to mention the supplements i take, such as amino acids, glutamine and multi vitamins.

And in case you figure i should change my macros... Been there, done that! Im very carb sensitive. If i increase the carbs. I will definately gain fat! Fat that i worked super hard to loose. Of course i could just let myself go and not care about the fat that ill gain as long as im gaining muscle. And later on, when ive gained enough muscle, i could go on a cutting diet. But then...getting rid of the fat is super hard for me...problem being i gain fat only in the wrong places... Eventually ill get rid of the fat...but by then i will have lost almost all the muscle i had gained in the process. So now i am back to square one.

So all the calories im eating and still it seems like i cant gain a single pound! I could of course increase my calorie intake, but that wont do much good. I increase it by 300...a week or two max and i hit a plateau. Then ill have to increase it again...2 weeks later same thing happenes. Next thing you know....ill be eating DOUBLE my TDEE and ill have gained only 10lbs.

So thats why im considering steroids cz i think i reached my max genetic potential.

Ps. In case youre wondering about my bodybuilding routine... Im currently on a HIT program. 2 days a week. Low rep till failure. 2 - 3 sets per exercise. I change my bodybuilding program ever 12 weeks so that my body doesnt adapt to the program.

whats 4500 calories?? I have to eat 4500 calories to grow and I am 263# right now!! Some people and pro, bodybuilders especially, sometimes eat upwards of 6500-8000+ calories a day in order to maintai n. the TDEE is just a baseline number! mine is think when t-mos had me check it was 2600 or so, and i eat over 4000 to put on size!! thats 1400+over the tdee #\
Trust what we say ! I say this same thing to everyone... To actually make anabolic steroids work at thier full potential the diet has to be 90-100% in check. So as long as the diet has to be taken care of well before the steroids ever come into play, why not give the diet a chance to add the weight, size , strength you are looking for? a good diet can phelp put your body in a very anabolic state all by itself! Again Diet is 65-80% of all the aspects of training.., Steroids are a close 10%!! see the difference!!

[higherdesire]

Good job so far. While you are at it we need you to figure the macros as well. Looka t the diet section for format. Really, you need to post one thread on your diet in the Diet section, then one on your WO in the workout section. I guarentee you will get the advice you need for your adjustmet

[Freefalling]

whats 4500 calories?? I have to eat 4500 calories to grow and I am 263# right now!! Some people and pro, bodybuilders especially, sometimes eat upwards of 6500-8000+ calories a day in order to maintai n. the TDEE is just a baseline number! mine is think when t-mos had me check it was 2600 or so, and i eat over 4000 to put on size!! thats 1400+over the tdee #\
Trust what we say ! I say this same thing to everyone... To actually make anabolic steroids work at thier full potential the diet has to be 90-100% in check. So as long as the diet has to be taken care of well before the steroids ever come into play, why not give the diet a chance to add the weight, size , strength you are looking for? a good diet can phelp put your body in a very anabolic state all by itself! Again Diet is 65-80% of all the aspects of training.., Steroids are a close 10%!! see the difference!!

i hear ya. But its not just a matter of calories. I could eat 10,000 calories a day...eating hamburgers and pizza.
And end up looking like a sumo wrestler.

Im getting my calories from lean protein mostly. And lean protein isnt dense in calories. And like i said before, i dont want to increase my calories from carbs because i am very carb sensitive...meaning ill just gain fat and not muscle. Get my point?

[Freefalling]

Good job so far. While you are at it we need you to figure the macros as well. Looka t the diet section for format. Really, you need to post one thread on your diet in the Diet section, then one on your WO in the workout section. I guarentee you will get the advice you need for your adjustmet

%45 protein, %35 carbs, %20 fat

[higherdesire]

^^ under each meal

here is an example of mine
Have a look at my diet please

[ninesecz]

Still always need carbs! Do you have any understanding on how the pro/fat and carbs get used and how they get taken for nutrients?? Just so you you know, Every meal needs a comb of carbs and protein! Carbohydrates are what actually deliver the protein to your muscles. basically the Carbs are the UPS truck and the creatine and Protein and amino acids are all in the back of that truck! If you do not have ample carbs, you eill not get the protein synthesis you are looking for! You still can eat up to 25-30% from fat without getting fat! It all depends on the fats you are eating! I try to eat 50-100carbs at each meal and35-60 protein. Still need more carbs than protein unless you are trying to cut up then you cab deplete on certain days. the problem is eating to many protein calories , if you have 4-500g of protein a day and you body is only using 300....that is just as bad as eating to much fat. and to make it worse. all that protein is actually bad on your liver. i think you need to get yourself some Labrady Lean Body Mel replacement shakes. or Met-Rx or something. Then you can eat 1-2 of those a day (2 meals) a good meal before working out (meal 3) then a good PWO Shake after training (meal4) now you just need to put 3-4 whole food meakls in there! This will make irt easy for you and then you can spend more time learning about diets more and what foods do what and whts foods have what in them. once you start getting more and more knowledge, you can start to get rid of 1-2 of the meal replacement shakes and pout a meal in there you know works for you!! I hope thios helps. it will at least get your diet 50-60% down with the shakes and leave only half of your daily diet up to you. een if you screw up 1-2 meals and get 2 right, you will still have a pretty goo start towrads getting all the meals dialed in. Good Luck

[ZoneBlitz]

Try eating the carbs early in the day. In the first 3 meals.

One of the most productive adjustments that I've made all year was moving some calories from later meals into my first three meals instead. I've actually leaned out a little just by doing that, without even reducing calories.

[Freefalling]

Still always need carbs! Do you have any understanding on how the pro/fat and carbs get used and how they get taken for nutrients?? Just so you you know, Every meal needs a comb of carbs and protein! Carbohydrates are what actually deliver the protein to your muscles. basically the Carbs are the UPS truck and the creatine and Protein and amino acids are all in the back of that truck! If you do not have ample carbs, you eill not get the protein synthesis you are looking for! You still can eat up to 25-30% from fat without getting fat! It all depends on the fats you are eating! I try to eat 50-100carbs at each meal and35-60 protein. Still need more carbs than protein unless you are trying to cut up then you cab deplete on certain days. the problem is eating to many protein calories , if you have 4-500g of protein a day and you body is only using 300....that is just as bad as eating to much fat. and to make it worse. all that protein is actually bad on your liver. i think you need to get yourself some Labrady Lean Body Mel replacement shakes. or Met-Rx or something. Then you can eat 1-2 of those a day (2 meals) a good meal before working out (meal 3) then a good PWO Shake after training (meal4) now you just need to put 3-4 whole food meakls in there! This will make irt easy for you and then you can spend more time learning about diets more and what foods do what and whts foods have what in them. once you start getting more and more knowledge, you can start to get rid of 1-2 of the meal replacement shakes and pout a meal in there you know works for you!! I hope thios helps. it will at least get your diet 50-60% down with the shakes and leave only half of your daily diet up to you. een if you screw up 1-2 meals and get 2 right, you will still have a pretty goo start towrads getting all the meals dialed in. Good Luck

thanks for the info ninesecz!

What im trying to do is gain muscle without gaining fat. Whats the best way to go about accomplishing that? Mind you, im very carb sensitive.

[jamyjamjr]

Typing it is going to take hours! Its very detailed. in short:

breakfast:
25 egg whites fried in 25 egg whites???
6 grams of extra virgin olive oil
125 grams tomato omit, simple carbs
15 grams onion
100 grams of whole wheat bread
protein shake with milk omit, too much protien, your "25" egg whites will give you 125g protien by it's self, i dont see how you can eat all that

Snack:
tuna paties:
110 grams oatmeal
150 grams tuna in water
10 grams onions
15 grams bell pepper
6 grams extra virgin olive oil
protein shake with milk

lunch:
150 grams tuna in water
15 grams mayo lite
125 grams tomato
15 grams onions
15 grams bell pepper
100 grams whole wheat bread

snack:
15 egg whites, friend in 6 grams of extra virgin olive oil
80 grams peas
125 grams tomato
protein shake with milk
omit the shake, eat real food
Dinner
250 grams grilled chicken breast
lettuce
125 grams tomato
100 grams peas
15 grams mayo lite or 6 grams extra virgin olive oil
protein shake with milk

snack
200 grams fat free cottage cheese
1 can tuna
mixed green salad

umm so there is something fishy here.. im not trying to call you out but do you really eat 25 egg whites in a morning??? i dont eat anything more then 14 myself and im 6'4 275lbs at a decent bf..

can i get some macros? could you post up a pic of yourself??

[Freefalling]

[QUOTE=jamyjamjr;4739161]umm so there is something fishy here.. im not trying to call you out but do you really eat 25 egg whites in a morning???

It used to be 30! An entire crate.
I told y'all im not joking when it comes to diet. Im going all out! And its hell!

[BG]

I'm guessing his most recent posts in the Q+A are supposed to be funny or sarcastic, but they are likely quite confusing to the OP.

Or just ****ing stupid. I cant eblieve what this site is coming to.

[Freefalling]

Something i dont get. If i use steroids now. And a gain lets say 25lb...if i maintain the required diet. Why wont i be able to keep it??

[monkeyman33]

Look mr. know it all about steroids , if you know so much why you asking newbie q's? 165lbs is newbie status regardless of how long you been in the game. Grow naturally before hitting the juice.

[Berserker88]

Considering i've been bodybuilding for 10 years. And know how to diet like a pro. And im 26. And my weight is 175lb @ %10 bf. And i know all there is to be known about steroids... What would be the down side to starting using steroids now?...before increasing my weight naturaly.

Mate if you have been training for 10 years for size, and only weigh 175lbs at 6'5" theres something wrong, you probably arent dieting like a pro...