future planning, Test/Tren cycle

[Rockin Z28]

i came off an omnadren /deca cycle back in early may and i got really nice gains (although a fair bit of bloat and fat too, but the strength and size was great) and i'm currently leaning otu right now, i will probably find a nice medium at about 225 this year i think (which will put me in the 16-17% bodyfat range) and may even push down to 220, onto the question(s)

this would be my 2nd cycle, and the first to include tren , now i know a lot of you suggest takign tren in a very small amount if you haven't used it before, what would be an ideal amount stacked with about 400-500mg of test to feel the effcts of tren without being blown out of the water..50mg EOD? also the pct for my first cycle was questionable, it was a nolvadex + otc test booster, but i'm coming back to normal, would a PCT includign tren differ in anyways from a cycle that incldues deca? i know they are both similar in structure. I don't plan to start putting this cycle together until at least novemeber (the earliest) but i want to know what to expect going in

[T-MOS]

tren is NOT for the novice or beginner.
you should work up to it so you know how your body reacts to sides from other AAS first
Tren should be used after about 6-7 other cycles
The sides are not to be taken lightly...........and your diet and bodyfat are NOT proof of a dedicated steroid user

No offense intended

[Rockin Z28]

none taken, i've just always heard the strength gains were unmatchable, have you yourself taken it or just heard through other people's experience?

[T-MOS]

none taken, i've just always heard the strength gains were unmatchable, have you yourself taken it or just heard through other people's experience?

I got 10 years cycle experience

waited until 7-8 cycle to use tren , used it a few times

just came off a Tren Ace cycle, and still have nasty insomnia. its 4 am on the east coast and I haven't slept yet..

thats just ONE of the sides....
then there is the terrible sweats
the diminished cardio endurance... you will need a nap after tying your shoes
then comes the night heart burn

I would suggest a Test/Deca cycle for a good mass builder and good second cycle

Deca will give great strength as well

[Rockin Z28]

actually thats not what im looking for, i just came off a test/deca cycle so i would like to experiment with something else (although keep the test) i feel like as combo while the gains were good the bloating was also big, what else you have up your sleeve for a 2nd cycle lol, im kidn of looking for something that will help me stay leanish while upping the strength, test/winstrol ?

[T-MOS]

you need to control the bloat. ( yet another reason to work your way up to the stronger steroids ) and some bloat (water retention) is actually good so you have extra lubrication of your joints as your strength goes up quickly....helps prevent damage

Bloat comes from diet as well as the gear, so you need to make sure you are eating correctly

Winny is good , BUT you will not see much from it until your bodyfat is around 10% as it will help dry you out and harden your gains

bulking or cutting is more about your diet and training, then it is the gear. I use test/deca when I bulk or cut. deca is good for lubricating your joints

[T-MOS]

so, for a first cycle you did test and deca .

how do you know which one was giving you which side effects? both good and bad??

how do you know the bloat was coming from the test and not the deca ? as deca will help you hold water also

[Rockin Z28]

i really didn't have any sides even though it was a big cycle for a first timer, i mean other then the water retention, so i can kind of point the finger at both of them for that (since they're both known to do that) maybe i should just have a repeat or run test alone

[T-MOS]

^^ not a bad idea

you can make great gains off just test IF your diet and training is set up correctly

[daem]

As someone that has used Tren countless times, I think you'll find the sides more manageable with Tren Enanthate than Acetate.

When you run it, after about 3 weeks of nothing great all of a sudden it hits you like a mack truck and you are a monster.

T-Mos highlighted the side effect that absolutely kills me, and that is decreased endurance.

Maybe you should try out a compound like EQ + Test + an oral if you want to do something different but still test the waters a bit...That could be a mild, decent 2nd cycle.

[T-MOS]

^^ not sure I would be suggesting Tren E for someone who has never used Tren. If he suddenly gets terrible sides and needs to quit, he will be STUCK for two weeks or longer until the Tren E clears his system. At least with Tren Ace, it will clear in only a few days