Frontload or kickstart?

**erock80** · 07-15-2009, 11:47 AM

I read Marcus's frontloading post and was still a little confused. Question is do I frontload the enanthate or just kickstart with prop? Also do I frontload the EQ?

Kickstarted Cycle:

wk 1-4 test prop 50mg ed
wk 1-4 test enan 500mg wk
wk 5-16 test enan 500mg wk
wk 1 eq 1800mg wk
wk 2-16 eq 600mg wk
wk 9-16 + 13 days winny 50 mg ed
wk 1-16 Proviron 50mg ed
wk 13-16 hcg 1000iu wk
pct - nolva 50/50/25/25 & clomid 100/100/50/50
L-Glutamine 10g ed
wk 7-16 Milk Thistle 200mg ed

or

Frontloaded Cycle:

wk 1 test enan 1500mg wk
wk 2-16 test enan 500mg wk
wk 1 eq 1800mg wk
wk 2-16 eq 600mg wk
wk 9-16 + 13 days winny 50 mg ed
wk 1-16 Proviron 50mg ed
wk 13-16 hcg 1000iu wk
pct - nolva 50/50/25/25 & clomid 100/100/50/50
L-Glutamine 10g ed
wk 7-16 Milk Thistle 200mg ed

***T-MOS*** · 07-15-2009, 11:56 AM

whats your cycle experience and stats

**ninesecz** · 07-15-2009, 12:01 PM

Wow. going to run 1800mg of EQ the 1st week! I do not know about doing what you are doing! I never thought that frontloading helped that much and I sure would not triple my weekly dosage the first week! that is a crazy spike for blood levels and would seem to be ust a little unhealthy! just run the same dosage from week 1 to ?? If you look around there are not too mnay people front loading cycles these days!

**erock80** · 07-15-2009, 01:00 PM

Originally Posted by T-MOS

whats your cycle experience and stats

29 yrs old
6'0"
218 lbs
14% BF
5 Previous Cycles

***T-MOS*** · 07-15-2009, 01:04 PM

personally I would just do the kickstart

**strength_addict14** · 07-15-2009, 01:06 PM

Originally Posted by T-MOS

personally I would just do the kickstart

I agree

**erock80** · 07-15-2009, 01:07 PM

So no frontloading the eq? Just run it 600mg wk 1-16?

**Twist** · 07-15-2009, 01:08 PM

why do people frontload at all? please someone explain this to me...
REAL gains come slowly so why would shocking your body for one week do anything?
go with the kickstart

**Twist** · 07-15-2009, 01:09 PM

Originally Posted by erock80

So no frontloading the eq? Just run it 600mg wk 1-16?

I like to start my eq before I start the other gear. like eq starts two weeks before test then on the two week mark shoot propionate and either use prop throughout the cycle or use it to kickstart.
this would not be wise if using a long ester with no kickstart

**Sauced_Up** · 07-15-2009, 01:13 PM

Originally Posted by erock80

I read Marcus's frontloading post and was still a little confused. Question is do I frontload the enanthate or just kickstart with prop? Also do I frontload the EQ?

Kickstarted Cycle:

wk 1-4 test prop 50mg ed
wk 1-4 test enan 500mg wk
wk 5-16 test enan 500mg wk
wk 1 eq 1800mg wk
wk 2-16 eq 600mg wk
wk 9-16 + 13 days winny 50 mg ed
wk 1-16 Proviron 50mg ed
wk 13-16 hcg 1000iu wk
pct - nolva 50/50/25/25 & clomid 100/100/50/50
L-Glutamine 10g ed
wk 7-16 Milk Thistle 200mg ed

or

Frontloaded Cycle:

wk 1 test enan 1500mg wk
wk 2-16 test enan 500mg wk
wk 1 eq 1800mg wk
wk 2-16 eq 600mg wk
wk 9-16 + 13 days winny 50 mg ed
wk 1-16 Proviron 50mg ed
wk 13-16 hcg 1000iu wk
pct - nolva 50/50/25/25 & clomid 100/100/50/50
L-Glutamine 10g ed
wk 7-16 Milk Thistle 200mg ed

Why dont you just do the kickstart and instead of doing 1800mg EQ the first week just bump up your dose to 700mg/ week for the rest of the cycle, youll deff have enough EQ from that first week to do it. Also 200mg of milk thistle is a very low dose, you need to bump that up to about a gram.

**erock80** · 07-15-2009, 01:15 PM

"why do people frontload at all? please someone explain this to me..."

Never have before. Just read marcus300's frontloading explained thread and it peaked my interest.

**erock80** · 07-15-2009, 01:18 PM

Originally Posted by Sauced_Up

Why dont you just do the kickstart and instead of doing 1800mg EQ the first week just bump up your dose to 700mg/ week for the rest of the cycle, youll deff have enough EQ from that first week to do it. Also 200mg of milk thistle is a very low dose, you need to bump that up to about a gram.

10-4 on not frontloading the EQ. There is that much of a difference form 600mg to 700mg of EQ? I am going to do 1g of milk thistle. Forgot what my dose was.

**strength_addict14** · 07-15-2009, 01:19 PM

Originally Posted by erock80

"why do people frontload at all? please someone explain this to me..."

Never have before. Just read marcus300's frontloading explained thread and it peaked my interest.

I see marcus down there, i bet he will explain.

**marcus300** · 07-15-2009, 01:49 PM

Front loading is just another method of application, normally with long ester's it will take at least 5 weeks for blood levels to be running at peak, so with a front load you will hit full blood levels straight away instead of waiting all this time, kind of like hitting the cycle while your running instead of hitting it walking!!

Now weather your respond using a front load is a different issue, some do, some don't. So the best way forward is to try one method say a kickstart first and log the results and then next cycle run a front load and compare the results and how you feel and respond. No one is going to tell you how you respond only how they responded.

For me I like front loading, I start to feel the kick of the cycle within the first 7 days and i can cut the cycle down in length which results in less sides, same gains but less stress. But i am a person who like's cycling short and intense, i seem to build far more tissue and i respond better if i dont stay on for long periods of time.

I dont have nothing against kickstarting, infact i like that also if the right compounds are used its another great way of hitting a cycle running!

**Twist** · 07-15-2009, 01:55 PM

Originally Posted by erock80

So no frontloading the eq? Just run it 600mg wk 1-16?

I like to start my eq before I start the other gear. like eq starts two weeks before test then on the two week mark shoot propionate and either use prop throughout the cycle or use it to kickstart.
this would not be wise if using a long ester with no kickstart

**Twist** · 07-15-2009, 01:56 PM

idk why my computer just did that

**erock80** · 07-15-2009, 02:01 PM

Originally Posted by marcus300

Front loading is just another method of application, normally with long ester's it will take at least 5 weeks for blood levels to be running at peak, so with a front load you will hit full blood levels straight away instead of waiting all this time, kind of like hitting the cycle while your running instead of hitting it walking!!

Now weather your respond using a front load is a different issue, some do, some don't. So the best way forward is to try one method say a kickstart first and log the results and then next cycle run a front load and compare the results and how you feel and respond. No one is going to tell you how you respond only how they responded.

For me I like front loading, I start to feel the kick of the cycle within the first 7 days and i can cut the cycle down in length which results in less sides, same gains but less stress. But i am a person who like's cycling short and intense, i seem to build far more tissue and i respond better if i dont stay on for long periods of time.

I dont have nothing against kickstarting, infact i like that also if the right compounds are used its another great way of hitting a cycle running!

thanks. i'll kickstart this cycle then frontload the next and compare

**ninesecz** · 07-15-2009, 02:14 PM

yeh man that is a lot of those compounds right off of the bat. plus that is a big injection be like what 6cc of Eq for a frontload?

**erock80** · 07-15-2009, 02:28 PM

Originally Posted by ninesecz

yeh man that is a lot of those compounds right off of the bat. plus that is a big injection be like what 6cc of Eq for a frontload?

I would have done 1.25cc ed or 2.7cc 3x that week. Its just frontloading for the first week not the first day.

**seriousmass** · 07-15-2009, 02:34 PM

Originally Posted by ninesecz

that is a big injection be like what 6cc of Eq for a frontload?

**TractionIssues** · 07-15-2009, 04:38 PM

Originally Posted by seriousmass

I thought there were already warnings given out about smiley whoring without actually contributing.

**seriousmass** · 07-15-2009, 05:13 PM

Originally Posted by TractionIssues

I thought there were already warnings given out about smiley whoring without actually contributing.

^^ I think this has to be the stupidest post I've ever read. (Thanks for your contribution btw.)

**TractionIssues** · 07-15-2009, 05:21 PM

Originally Posted by seriousmass

^^ I think this has to be the stupidest post I've ever read. (Thanks for your contribution btw.)

I could say the same about 4 out of every 5 posts you make. My contribution was informing you to stop smiley whoring, and it's been warned. But nice try on trying to make someone else look stupid...

**seriousmass** · 07-15-2009, 05:28 PM

Originally Posted by TractionIssues

I could say the same about 4 out of every 5 posts you make. My contribution was informing you to stop smiley whoring, and it's been warned. But nice try on trying to make someone else look stupid...

... You need to get a life immediately bro.

Help making my cycle

^^ greaaaat advice.

**TractionIssues** · 07-15-2009, 06:02 PM

Originally Posted by seriousmass

... You need to get a life immediately bro.

Help making my cycle

^^ greaaaat advice.

Lol your too funny, you pull out some random quote out of a conversation you know nothing about, and what? What exactly was your point to that? Lol your such a pathetic little kid, and all you do is talk out of your ass, why are you even still on these boards? Nobody even likes you, just go somewhere else, theres tons of other boards you can smiley whore on and give idiotic advice on.

**The Deuce** · 07-15-2009, 06:35 PM

I am one as you all know who likes SHORT ESTERS... now on the occasion if I doo a LONG ESTER cycle I WILL always FRONTLOAD.. not only have I found it works 10 times better but.. I feel that the LESS I USE ORALS the longer my LIVER will like me.. hahaha stupid I know but, MY plight is different than yours and different than anyone elses... I have a LONG LONG LONG road ahead of me to accomplish my goals and well I am in the mode right now where I feel that I do not want to get my body acclimated to all these different compounds.. I feel like I have to save them for when my body will require them to respond when i have hit peaks that I can not surpass... so I am saving the ORALS for later on in my career... I know you are not talking about kickstarting with an oral.. I am.. just a for instance thing because most people use an oral to kickstart... you are choosing the AWESOME route of using PROP to kickstart !!

That being said, back to the subject at hand... MARCUS is 100% right.. scientific fact does not lie, but you need to find out what works best for you. I like your idea of kickstarting with PROP.. IMO that is better than using drol or dbol ... so try that route this time like he said, log it and then go from there.. NOW... to the EQ portion .. if you are frontloading it.. you do not need 1800mgs.... you need 1200... iit's basically double dosing.. and it should technically be done for 21 days.. right MARCUS?? Because that's the life OF EQ... so I believe it is 1200mgs EW For 3 weeks.. not just 1.. I dont think 1800mgs for 1 week will do what is necessary for the frontloading procedure... I could be wrong but that is my take on it...

From what I thought I knew about frontloading is that you double dose your compound for the life of your compound.. IE- Test E at 500mgs EW = 1000mgs EW for 14 days, Test Cyp at 400mgs EW= 800mgs EW for 16 days. Test Deconate 600mgs EW = 1200mgs EW for 21 days, EQUIPOISE 600mgs EW = 1200mgs EW for 21 days. Test Prop 100mgs ED = 200mgs ED for 3 days

Now as to the accuracy of that... not a 100% on it, that is just what I THOUGHT it was.. if I am wrong someone with accurate information on it please correct me!!

**erock80** · 07-15-2009, 10:27 PM

"From what I thought I knew about frontloading is that you double dose your compound for the life of your compound.. IE- Test E at 500mgs EW = 1000mgs EW for 14 days, Test Cyp at 400mgs EW= 800mgs EW for 16 days. Test Deconate 600mgs EW = 1200mgs EW for 21 days, EQUIPOISE 600mgs EW = 1200mgs EW for 21 days. Test Prop 100mgs ED = 200mgs ED for 3 days"

would like to hear more on this from someone

**cubnlynx** · 07-16-2009, 06:44 AM

can someone post up the link to the Marcus frontload thread i can't find it

***D7M*** · 07-16-2009, 06:57 AM

Frontloading explained-

you're welcome

**cubnlynx** · 07-16-2009, 08:36 AM

Thanks

**marcus300** · 07-16-2009, 11:12 AM

I think i need to come in here and just say, I would never front load EQ, i would just front load the main compound within the cycle, reason being is - EQ is worthless at building any kind of muscle tissue, no matter at any dose. Alot of people are mis-guided thinking that eq will build tissue but its the other compounds within the stack what are building the muscle, eq is worthless and is only usefull for increasing RBC's and the appetite IMHO

**The Deuce** · 07-16-2009, 01:07 PM

Originally Posted by marcus300

I think i need to come in here and just say, I would never front load EQ, i would just front load the main compound within the cycle, reason being is - EQ is worthless at building any kind of muscle tissue, no matter at any dose. Alot of people are mis-guided thinking that eq will build tissue but its the other compounds within the stack what are building the muscle, eq is worthless and is only usefull for increasing RBC's and the appetite IMHO

See I did not know that at all... LEARN something new everyday.. THANKS MARCUS !!!

Now that I know that, I will probably never run EQ again... even though I just posted a thread stating that I was going to give it a real go ahead try...

So instead of the EQ I will just run Primo which I KNOW has to build muscle tissue although of it's weak nature.. as I outlined in my thread I am trying to save the 19-nor kind of compounds for later on in my career when I absolutely need them, and was going to work with the weaker end of compounds for a little while.. now that I have come across this new breed of information not only am I stunned but now I have to totally redo my thinking as far as it is all concerned...

**TractionIssues** · 07-16-2009, 01:14 PM

Originally Posted by marcus300

I think i need to come in here and just say, I would never front load EQ, i would just front load the main compound within the cycle, reason being is - EQ is worthless at building any kind of muscle tissue, no matter at any dose. Alot of people are mis-guided thinking that eq will build tissue but its the other compounds within the stack what are building the muscle, eq is worthless and is only usefull for increasing RBC's and the appetite IMHO

I've been trying to tell all these first timers, and they never listen. And a strange lot of them think they will build great muscle off eq only cycles... Iunno whats with them, but shutting down your natty test to trade it for such a weak compound... makes no sense to me.

**The Deuce** · 07-16-2009, 01:32 PM

I have NEVER and will NEVER ever ever ever run a cycle without TESTOSTERONE in it... at least BASELINE TRT dosage.. I am not NUMB I know better.. plus... HAHAHA I am on TRT so I know the benefits of having TRT dose running through the body...

**xo3et** · 07-16-2009, 01:54 PM

This is a good thread with lots of good information.

Thanks

**marcus300** · 07-16-2009, 02:05 PM

Originally Posted by The Deuce

See I did not know that at all... LEARN something new everyday.. THANKS MARCUS !!!

Now that I know that, I will probably never run EQ again... even though I just posted a thread stating that I was going to give it a real go ahead try...

So instead of the EQ I will just run Primo which I KNOW has to build muscle tissue although of it's weak nature.. as I outlined in my thread I am trying to save the 19-nor kind of compounds for later on in my career when I absolutely need them, and was going to work with the weaker end of compounds for a little while.. now that I have come across this new breed of information not only am I stunned but now I have to totally redo my thinking as far as it is all concerned...

There are the exceptions to the rule and I am sure there are some out there what say they have produced muscle tissue from EQ and thats fine, but usually its always ran along side another compound and they are being guided by the stack and not what that indivudal compound can do, personally ive ran eq only cycles and have detailed logs showing it did nothing what so ever towards muscle building except! an increase in red blood cells and it gave me an appetite, which can results in more tissue being gained so long as there is a compound there what will put you in a positive state to do so.

Once again all i can say to people who have not tried it is to go ahead and give it a go, log the results and compare it to other cycles what you have done, if it works for you or you believe it works stick with it, but there are many threads on this topic regarding eq being any good or not, so that alone should tell you something!! do you ever see a thread regarding if test builds muscle tissue or tren ? nope!