Ok, time to clear the air on AAS use for those under 25

**Juice Authority** · 07-28-2009, 06:30 PM

This site is a newbie magnet. I'm now convinced of that. Anyway, w/r/t AAS I know you won't take the advice of someone who has been there and done that but let me share my experience anyway.

I'm 36 and I first starting messing around with AAS at 17. I didn't know any better and even if I did I probably wouldn't have listened anyway. If you're between the ages of 18-22 you're at peak testosterone . Enjoy it because it doesn't last.

Using exogenous testosterone when you're in your prime development years 18-25 only serves to shut down your natural levels of testosterone in your 30s. Think about that. Instead of being a TRT/HRT candidate at 55 you can and will shorten that timeframe by 15-20 years if you abuse or misuse it. Is it worth it? If you're young (under 25) and don't plan to compete professionally in BBing give that some serious thought and consideration. Your actions today affect your tomorrow but who thinks about that? I know I didn't.

**romo6** · 07-28-2009, 07:22 PM

Yes,this is true.

**seriousmass** · 07-28-2009, 07:25 PM

Originally Posted by Juice Authority

This site is a newbie magnet. I'm now convinced of that. Anyway, w/r/t AAS I know you won't take the advice of someone who has been there and done that but let me share my experience anyway.

I'm 36 and I first starting messing around with AAS at 17. I didn't know any better and even if I did I probably wouldn't have listened anyway. If you're between the ages of 18-22 you're at peak testosterone . Enjoy it because it doesn't last.

Using exogenous testosterone when you're in your prime development years 18-25 only serves to shut down your natural levels of testosterone in your 30s. Think about that. Instead of being a TRT/HRT candidate at 55 you can and will shorten that timeframe by 15-20 years if you abuse or misuse it. Is it worth it? If you're young (under 25) and don't plan to compete professionally in BBing give that some serious thought and consideration. Your actions today affect your tomorrow but who thinks about that? I know I didn't.

I thought that was probably the most important point to emphasize.

Good story though J.A.

**G4R** · 07-28-2009, 07:38 PM

Let me help out by showing everyone some great links to support your thread.....

Whats the right age to take steroids (GOOD READ)

and this one....

http://forums.steroid.com/showthread...=1#post4316957
^^^Starting at post #1 obviously

**hankdiesel** · 07-28-2009, 07:39 PM

Are you on hrt now? What did you early cycles look like?

**TITANIUM** · 07-28-2009, 07:45 PM

It doesn't matter what his cycles looked like.He's obviously screwed his HPTA up, due to the fact of running gear to early.I hear you bro, and respect this post.Problem is, these kids don't listen.I guess it's our job to try to discourage early use or AAS abuse.

**KimboHalfSlice** · 07-29-2009, 06:20 AM

Here's a question that will probably get a few condescending responses:

Is it really that big a deal to f*** up your HPTA?

From what I understand, it just means you've to take a shot of Sustanon once a month. Given that I'm currently taking shots of Sustanon every 3 days, every month doesn't seem like too bad of an inconvenience.

And as everyone says, whether you use steroids or not, you're gonna end up with a low testosterone level when you're older, so all you're doing is bringing a problem sooner.

I have to say though, one shot per month wouldn't be a big deal at all for me.

**Papa Smurf** · 07-29-2009, 07:09 AM

Originally Posted by Almond

Here's a question that will probably get a few condescending responses:

Is it really that big a deal to f*** up your HPTA?

From what I understand, it just means you've to take a shot of Sustanon once a month. Given that I'm currently taking shots of Sustanon every 3 days, every month doesn't seem like too bad of an inconvenience.

And as everyone says, whether you use steroids or not, you're gonna end up with a low testosterone level when you're older, so all you're doing is bringing a problem sooner.

I have to say though, one shot per month wouldn't be a big deal at all for me.

HMMMMMMMMMMMM....... Were to begin!

TRT is NOT a once a month shot my friend! If you knew anything about Test Esters at all you wouldnt make that statement and Sustanon, dont get me started.

TRT/HRT is all about getting and keeping a NORMAL test level in your system.
Most doctors have you inject once every 2 weeks. This will cause your levels to peak and valley and its like riding an emotional rollercoaster. Most of us shot our TRT dose once a week to keep levels stable.

Getting older doesnt mean you will need replacement therapy at all. Lots of older men have no low test issues at all. They are lucky. TRT is for life. Sticking a needle in my ass once a week from now on is not the retirement I had in mind. But...... it does work, and Im glad I found out about it.

And YES...... Its a REALLY BIG DEAL to F**KUP your HPTA. Unless of course you enjoy walking around with a limp dick for the rest of your life!

**Dukkit** · 07-29-2009, 07:19 AM

*sigh*

**KimboHalfSlice** · 07-29-2009, 09:24 AM

Cool, I get ya. I suppose that's another reason to do a 12-week cycle instead of 15 weeks (I'm still not decided on how long I'll stay on Sustanon ).

**Hazard** · 07-29-2009, 09:47 AM

Good post JA..... I myself started early..... i'm 25 right now LOL. I trusted opinions from guys who were in amateur bodybuilding..... guys who were in their 30's..... big..... ripped. I was told 10 weeks of Deca - 250mg's/wk would be awesome for me. No mention of PCT..... no mention of deca d*ck......

The people on this site pointed me in the right direction in my early days here..... I'm thankful for that. I don't have libido issue right now but it's almost as if i can feel that i'm going to. One of the main effects i've noticed from cycling from 18-22 years old was that i used to be able to go 4 rounds with a girl.... no problem. Now.... once i get the rocks off - i'm screwd for atleast an hour or two LOL..... there is no round two.

again..... good post..... I hope some of the young guys listen. All we can do is lead the horse to the water..... not make it drink.....

~Haz~

**DEVLDOG** · 07-29-2009, 10:01 AM

while I see what your trying to say here,it just isnt fact and 100%true. I agree one should "probably" wait until they peaked naturally before ever juicing but who wants to wait that long...really?I was 12 when I started working out regularly

I too started using when I was 17, Im 39 and still use, I have 5 kids, from 19 to 6 months old,I came off for each kid and was able to knock up my wife no problems,so you cant just throw a "blanket" statement out there that says if you do this,this will happen!!
theres alot of other factors you have to consider also
-did you "cycle"(and I hate that word) correctly
-did you do proper pct when required
-and genetically we are al pre disposed to certain things in life we can not change, for you it may be low test levels? who knows.

I personally have been on for 4 yrs straight now with the only break coming 2months before I concieved my last child,then right back on,it all comes down to being smart. and yes there is an inherited risk with what we do,before you even start you need ot accept it or find something else to make you happy.

BTW, this is just my opinion and I dont condone the use of AAS to anyone that is gonna blame medical issues they may have later on in life from use.that goes without saying

**seriousmass** · 07-29-2009, 10:26 AM

Originally Posted by DEVLDOG

while I see what your trying to say here,it just isnt fact and 100%true. I agree one should "probably" wait until they peaked naturally before ever juicing but who wants to wait that long...really?it all comes down to being smart. and yes there is an inherited risk with what we do,before you even start you need ot accept it or find something else to make you happy.

DevilDog, I completely agree with you. It's actually refreshing to see a VET, who can relate, and understands that the vast majority of AAS users do not want to max out their natural potential, and then juice. For most people the concept of getting to 200 pounds naturally and then juicing is comical.

Originally Posted by Papa Smurf

And YES...... Its a REALLY BIG DEAL to F**KUP your HPTA. Unless of course you enjoy walking around with a limp dick for the rest of your life!

The problem is that their is so much wrong info out their. PapaSmurf, I respect your passion regarding TRT, but honestly, you portray it completely wrong. Do you walk around with a limp dick on TRT? -- no. (unless on deca , etc).... so let's not exaggerate the truth here..

As previously stated, the worst thing you can do your body is damage your HPTA during ages (18 - 22).... but IMO, it's is NOT through just using steroids , that is through using steroids ABUSIVELY / INCORRECTLY. Therefore, it is truly my belief that if we at least educate people on the topic, and teach them how to properly run a cycle, less people will go out and run Deca only cycles.

**Critical Mass** · 07-29-2009, 10:32 AM

Couldnt agree more,better to wait. I was 16 when I did my first cycle and did another right after,no pct. Messed up my head for a long time.

**marcus300** · 07-29-2009, 10:37 AM

I don't agree!, using to young can have a serious effect on your HPTA, ive seen that many times over the years with guys who are on HRT in their 20's it can't be wrong, look at the data, check the studies because they are out there.

Shutting down your own system before its completely functional is asking for trouble, there are risk's and if you want to play with them thats your choice, I also know a couple of guys who have no trouble and started very young but the majority do and the risk is in that corner.

My god its risky when your HPTA is full functional at the age of 25yrs, just look at how many threads there are for starters asking for help in this area, it cant be dismissed, read up and educate and cycle as healthy as possible, if you want to run the risk of damage to your HPTA thats your choice but to say it isn't true is completely stupid IMHO.

You can debate all night long, but thats my opinion after yrs of training and seeing what Ive seen, pls do research in this area, read the studies,reports and all the papers but most of all look at the real world experiences of bodybuilders and see if there is a risk or not, infact its laughable to say there isn't.

**Matt** · 07-29-2009, 10:40 AM

Originally Posted by marcus300

I don't agree!, using to young can have a serious effect on your HPTA, ive seen that many times over the years with guys who are on HRT in their 20's it can't be wrong, look at the data, check the studies because they are out there.

Shutting down your own system before its completely functional is asking for trouble, there are risk's and if you want to play with them thats your choice, I also know a couple of guys who have no trouble and started very young but the majority do and the risk is in that corner.

My god its risky when your HPTA is full functional at the age of 25yrs, just look at how many threads there are for starters asking for help in this area, it cant be dismissed, read up and educate and cycle as healthy as possible, if you want to run the risk of damage to your HPTA thats your choice but to say it isn't true is completely stupid IMHO.

You can debate all night long, but thats my opinion after yrs of training and seeing what Ive seen, pls do research in this area, read the studies,reports and all the papers but most of all look at the real world experiences of bodybuilders and see if there is a risk or not, infact its laughable to say there isn't.

100% agreed..

**seriousmass** · 07-29-2009, 10:41 AM

Originally Posted by marcus300

I don't agree!, using to young can have a serious effect on your HPTA

You can debate all night long, but thats my opinion after yrs of training and seeing what Ive seen, pls do research in this area, read the studies,reports and all the papers but most of all look at the real world experiences of bodybuilders and see if there is a risk or not, infact its laughable to say there isn't.

First of all, you grew up in a completely different time-period. The internet wasn't even invented probably when you began cycling. The newfound spread of info has allowed for people to at least get SOLID information on how to run a proper cycle, while doing the least amount of damage to their HPTA / bodies.

Moreover, when looking at the "experiences of bodybuilders" you have to take into account the fact that these guys are not running normal Test-E cycles. They are stacking TONS of compounds, at generally high dosages, and for extremely prolonged periods of time. SO YES! of course they will have damaged their body in the long run. I dunno.. just my 0.02

**Phate** · 07-29-2009, 10:47 AM

Originally Posted by seriousmass

First of all, you grew up in a completely different time-period. The internet wasn't even invented probably when you began cycling. The newfound spread of info has allowed for people to at least get SOLID information on how to run a proper cycle, while doing the least amount of damage to their HPTA / bodies.

so you agree that it can damage HPTA, thank you for agreeing, no matter how you slice it it's a risk to a MAJOR body system, if i told you taking testosterone had a chance of damaging brain function before a certain age would you take it, only if you were extremely immature and irresponsible, so what's so different about this? yes, life goals need to be assessed but as you've said, most people here aren't using to compete so why not wait a little while, what do they have to lose?

Moreover, when looking at the "experiences of bodybuilders" you have to take into account the fact that these guys are not running normal Test-E cycles. They are stacking TONS of compounds, at generally high dosages, and for extremely prolonged periods of time. SO YES! of course they will have damaged their body in the long run. I dunno.. just my 0.02

bold

**marcus300** · 07-29-2009, 10:48 AM

Originally Posted by seriousmass

First of all, you grew up in a completely different time-period. The internet wasn't even invented probably when you began cycling. The newfound spread of info has allowed for people to at least get SOLID information on how to run a proper cycle, while doing the least amount of damage to their HPTA / bodies.

Moreover, when looking at the "experiences of bodybuilders" you have to take into account the fact that these guys are not running normal Test-E cycles. They are stacking TONS of compounds, at generally high dosages, and for extremely prolonged periods of time. SO YES! of course they will have damaged their body in the long run. I dunno.. just my 0.02

Ive no idea what your talking about ! high dose! where did that come from?

Guys who damage their own system tend to do one or two compounds because they are new user's and i am not just talking about guys yrs ago, just 3 months ago i know one guy who started HRT at the age of 23yrs old because he started to young so, you believe what you like but pls do research and it will become a different picture for you,

**nilrac** · 07-29-2009, 10:48 AM

Originally Posted by Hazard

I was told 10 weeks of Deca - 250mg's/wk would be awesome for me. No mention of PCT..... no mention of deca d*ck......
~Haz~

You did 10wks of Deca only? Bad experience?

**DEVLDOG** · 07-29-2009, 11:06 AM

Originally Posted by marcus300

I don't agree!, using to young can have a serious effect on your HPTA, ive seen that many times over the years with guys who are on HRT in their 20's it can't be wrong, look at the data, check the studies because they are out there.

Shutting down your own system before its completely functional is asking for trouble, there are risk's and if you want to play with them thats your choice, I also know a couple of guys who have no trouble and started very young but the majority do and the risk is in that corner.

My god its risky when your HPTA is full functional at the age of 25yrs, just look at how many threads there are for starters asking for help in this area, it cant be dismissed, read up and educate and cycle as healthy as possible, if you want to run the risk of damage to your HPTA thats your choice but to say it isn't true is completely stupid IMHO.

You can debate all night long, but thats my opinion after yrs of training and seeing what Ive seen, pls do research in this area, read the studies,reports and all the papers but most of all look at the real world experiences of bodybuilders and see if there is a risk or not, infact its laughable to say there isn't.

Like i said brother,its not 100% correct. its isnt as simple as if you do this,this will happen. if you start using gear at age ...whatever...15,16,17..etc. that doesnt mean you will automatically be shut down forever.I am living proof of this.so to make that statement is stupid.IMHO

do I know ppl who have developed issues?? ABSOLUTELY, I have a close personal friend who beat out Ron Coleman in the 90's at the olympia,he is on the waitng list for a liver transplant as we speak, these are the minority,not the majority

AGAIN,if you want to play you have to be willing to accept the risk and consiquences that go along with it,I feel sorry for no one who chooses to do this,because its all voluntary,no one made anyone stick a needle in their ass.yes,its that simple.

**marcus300** · 07-29-2009, 11:14 AM

Originally Posted by DEVLDOG

Like i said brother,its not 100% correct. its isnt as simple as if you do this,this will happen. if you start using gear at age ...whatever...15,16,17..etc. that doesnt mean you will automatically be shut down forever.I am living proof of this.so to make that statement is stupid.IMHO

do I know ppl who have developed issues?? ABSOLUTELY, I have a close personal friend who beat out Ron Coleman in the 90's at the olympia,he is on the waitng list for a liver transplant as we speak, these are the minority,not the majority

AGAIN,if you want to play you have to be willing to accept the risk and consiquences that go along with it,I feel sorry for no one who chooses to do this,because its all voluntary,no one made anyone stick a needle in their ass.yes,its that simple.

I didnt say it will results in damage everytime, re-read what i said, there is a huge risk it will !! but the majority swings in the direction it does and thats by experiences from many people and various studies. simply saying I HAVENT doesnt mean it doesnt and i also know a few who it hasnt touched in a bad way but the majority, is far ahead that it does.

There is a risk and its common sense !

Your introducing artificial hormones into a body what hasn't fully develop its own hormonal system yet, what do you really think is going to happen? your risk! best of luck

**DEVLDOG** · 07-29-2009, 11:29 AM

Originally Posted by marcus300

I didnt say it will results in damage everytime, re-read what i said, there is a huge risk it will !! but the majority swings in the direction it does and thats by experiences from many people and various studies. simply saying I HAVENT doesnt mean it doesnt and i also know a few who it hasnt touched in a bad way but the majority, is far ahead that it does.

There is a risk and its common sense !

Your introducing artificial hormones into a body what hasn't fully develop its own hormonal system yet, what do you really think is going to happen? your risk! best of luck

the body is more resilient then most think,for all the people out there juicing or who have juiced,the % in actual "horror" cases is low,there millions of ppl juicing in this world and once every 10yrs some ex footbal player or wrestler dies its blamed on steroid use and then the media jumps all over it and has ppl believing that one anadrol will kill your liver...what a joke!!.im more scared of killing my liver taking tylenol then with steroids

goodluck to you

**Reed** · 07-29-2009, 11:33 AM

interesting debate

**DEVLDOG** · 07-29-2009, 11:42 AM

Originally Posted by Reed

interesting debate

we've had it before,

I respect marcus and his opinons and know he doesnt believe in high doses.Im on the other end of the spectrum, but its all good,thats what we are here for. and I bet if we ever sat down to debate this we'd finish a whole keg of beer and still not be done

**Phate** · 07-29-2009, 11:43 AM

Originally Posted by DEVLDOG

we've had it before,

I respect marcus and his opinons and know he doesnt believe in high doses.Im on the other end of the spectrum, but its all good,thats what we are here for. and I bet if we ever sat down to debate this we'd finish a whole keg of beer and still not be done

i'm sure if ya'll finished a whole keg of beer you two would agree on anything

**Papa Smurf** · 07-29-2009, 11:45 AM

1) Yes seriousmass, I am very passionate about TRT and tryin to keep some of these youngins from making the same mistakes alot of guys on HRT/TRT did years ago when Moses was a baby and the internet wasnt around.
Thats what makes me even MORE pissed off! All this free info at your finger tips and still they are tryin to screw themselves up for life.

Oh..... and the limp dick comment seems to get their attention the fastest!

2) Devil: I glad things are going well for you so far. But I have ta say bro, at 39, you are by no means outta the woods. My low test was not discovered until I was 45. So FYI! Start losing the drive, gaining some fat, losing focus.
Never no?

3) Marcus: Thanks for the help! Ole Papa Smurf is going thru some rough stuff right now and I need all the friends I can get, and right now, all of you guys on here are about all I have right now!

**DEVLDOG** · 07-29-2009, 11:49 AM

Originally Posted by Papa Smurf

1)

2) Devil: I glad things are going well for you so far. But I have ta say bro, at 39, you are by no means outta the woods. My low test was not discovered until I was 45. So FYI! Start losing the drive, gaining some fat, losing focus.
Never no?

!

been training consistantly for 27yrs now,wont ever lose the drive or desire.

could also fall in the bath tub tonite and die,i dont walk around worrying about tomorrow,it may never come.

sorry about your troubles though,goodluck to you

**seriousmass** · 07-29-2009, 11:54 AM

Originally Posted by marcus300

I didnt say it will results in damage everytime, re-read what i said, there is a huge risk it will !! but the majority swings in the direction it does and thats by experiences from many people and various studies. simply saying I HAVENT doesnt mean it doesnt and i also know a few who it hasnt touched in a bad way but the majority, is far ahead that it does.

There is a risk and its common sense !

Your introducing artificial hormones into a body what hasn't fully develop its own hormonal system yet, what do you really think is going to happen? your risk! best of luck

lol... yah, basically this is what it boils down to:

a.) is taking AAS at a young age a risk - Yes. It's undeniably a massive risk.

b.) can you do AAS without doing permanent damage to your body - Yes.

.... Marcus, I dunno if I should save this for PM.. but I'll say it...

I decided to get X-Rays done about 2 weeks ago. (I wanted to see if my growth plates have fused yet). After 2 cycles, at the age of 21, my growth plates have not completely fused closed yet. My doctor said they have regressed; however, they are not completely closed.

^^ I thought you'd be pretty interested in that. People always say you will never develop further after using AAS... but not so much apparently.

**seriousmass** · 07-29-2009, 11:59 AM

Phate - "so you agree that it can damage HPTA, thank you for agreeing, no matter how you slice it it's a risk to a MAJOR body system, if i told you taking testosterone had a chance of damaging brain function before a certain age would you take it, only if you were extremely immature and irresponsible, so what's so different about this? yes, life goals need to be assessed but as you've said, most people here aren't using to compete so why not wait a little while, what do they have to lose?"

Originally Posted by DEVLDOG

could also fall in the bath tub tonite and die,i dont walk around worrying about tomorrow,it may never come.

... DevilDogs comment is exactly how I'd respond to your statement / query Phate. Life is dangerous in general. IMO standing in front of a microwave and absorbing the radiation is a greater risk then doing steroids nowadays. lol

**Papa Smurf** · 07-29-2009, 12:01 PM

Originally Posted by DEVLDOG

been training consistantly for 27yrs now,wont ever lose the drive or desire.

could also fall in the bath tub tonite and die,i dont walk around worrying about tomorrow,it may never come.

sorry about your troubles though,goodluck to you

Thanks Bro! Sorry................ didnt mean ta drag my BS onto this tread. Hope you have dodged that bullet bro! At least you know what to look for if it does hit.
I had to endure 3 years of feeling (and looking) like crap, before I found out what was wrong. Had two rotor cuff operations back to back and just couldnt never get myself back. So many false starts back to the gym, I lost count. No drive, workouts sucked, zero focus. 18 months ago a good friend told me to get my test checked (243 Total) Was put on TRT and it gave me my life back!
But I still feel like I got robbed of 3 years.

Sorry JA For the Hi Jackin

Thanks to all my Bros on here!

**DEVLDOG** · 07-29-2009, 12:06 PM

Originally Posted by Papa Smurf

Thanks Bro! Sorry................ didnt mean ta drag my BS onto this tread. Hope you have dodged that bullet bro! At least you know what to look for if it does hit.
I had to endure 3 years of feeling (and looking) like crap, before I found out what was wrong. Had two rotor cuff operations back to back and just couldnt never get myself back. So many false starts back to the gym, I lost count. No drive, workouts sucked, zero focus. 18 months ago a good friend told me to get my test checked (243 Total) Was put on TRT and it gave me my life back!
But I still feel like I got robbed of 3 years.

Sorry JA For the Hi Jackin

Thanks to all my Bros on here!

its cool bro,
I have always had the plan to come clean when I turn 40, my intensions are to find a good endo and get me on some hgh and if hrt is nesacerry,I will live with it,im really ok with whatever happens

goodluck

**Subotai** · 07-29-2009, 12:09 PM

I have made a lot of mistakes with drug use, one can read my thread in the new male member's section. I started at 13 with what I suspect (can't even be sure) to be d-bol. I totally agree that one should wait until their HTPA is developed but my issue with steroid forums is this: That time is different for everyone.

Here you all preach 24, bodybuilding.com preaches 21, I've seen other forums that say 18.

Its all BS, everyone is different. We need to stop hating on someone who is 23 and 362 days old and fully developed when another guy might be 24 and 1 day old who has yet to hit puberty but we welcome him with open arms

**seriousmass** · 07-29-2009, 12:10 PM

Originally Posted by marcus300

Your introducing artificial hormones into a body what hasn't fully develop its own hormonal system yet, what do you really think is going to happen? your risk! best of luck

ummm... I'd say... you'll shut down your test production... then your body will grow... and then you'll recover...

I think it's funny how no one EVER mentions the fact that it is PROVEN that you can recover your natty test production the younger you are.

**Papa Smurf** · 07-29-2009, 12:15 PM

Originally Posted by Subotai

I have made a lot of mistakes with drug use, one can read my thread in the new male member's section. I started at 13 with what I suspect (can't even be sure) to be d-bol. I totally agree that one should wait until their HTPA is developed but my issue with steroid forums is this: That time is different for everyone.

Here you all preach 24, bodybuilding.com preaches 21, I've seen other forums that say 18.

Its all BS, everyone is different. We need to stop hating on someone who is 23 and 362 days old and fully developed when another guy might be 24 and 1 day old who has yet to hit puberty but we welcome him with open arms

Subotai: All we do here is give advice. Im sure that the kids that ask ? on here have long ago made up their minds about using steriods or not. Most come on here just to make themselves feel better about what their gonna do anyway!

As for me............. I will preach what I preach!!!!!!!!!!

**Dukkit** · 07-29-2009, 12:18 PM

whats this thread about?

using gear to early?

i do not have the energy to read the whole thread

but i will say...

i started gear too young. at age 21.
but way way way way before i even got halfway close to my natural peak

and most likely ill end up on TRT within the next 2 years.

due to cycling too much
too often
and not properly researching

**seriousmass** · 07-29-2009, 12:20 PM

Originally Posted by dukkitdalaw

whats this thread about?

using gear to early?

i do not have the energy to read the whole thread

but i will say...

i started gear too young. at age 21.
but way way way way before i even got halfway close to my natural peak

and most likely ill end up on TRT within the next 2 years.

due to cycling too much
too often
and not properly researching

all I can say is.... how the f*ck did you get 54, 000+ posts

thats insane! lol

oh... and the thread is a debate about when to use AAS (when too young, etc).

**Hazard** · 07-29-2009, 12:21 PM

Originally Posted by nilrac

You did 10wks of Deca only? Bad experience?

Definately not a GOOD experience..... i'll tell you that. I didn't know any better..... and to be honest..... at that time (out of highschool) i thought steroids put size on you if you took em and worked out...... not necessarily from your diet. I was young..... still immature..... and all I wanted was a body no woman could resist. Steroids were the ticket...... so it seemed.

I think the main point to this thread is to get the young guys to open up their eyes and understand that while you can take steroids for a long portion of your life and walk away perfectly fine..... there is DEFINATELY a risk of putting exogenous hormones into your body. If you're going to start young..... you better know how to use steroids and not abuse them.

In my honest opinion.... if your 18 years old..... 170lbs..... 6'0" - you have NO BUSINESS touching steroids. If someone like that was anywhere near ready for steroids they'd be over 200lbs. All this tells me is that they don't have all their ducks in a row..... the diet is off..... their training split could be off..... they don't know their body yet. This is where things go wrong.....

~Haz~

**Subotai** · 07-29-2009, 12:21 PM

Originally Posted by Papa Smurf

Subotai: All we do here is give advice. Im sure that the kids that ask ? on here have long ago made up their minds about using steriods or not. Most come on here just to make themselves feel better about what their gonna do anyway!

As for me............. I will preach what I preach!!!!!!!!!!

I know all you do is give advice, but you can't tell me you don't think its silly that different websites have each posted different arbitrary numbers that everyone of their members follows like it was gospel. Its like saying once you are 24 years old six months and 12 days you are ready, when none of these numbers should mean anything. Sure they can be used as a rough guide but everyone turns it into black and white. You can't honestly tell me you believe that by some magical chain of events your body is somehow more ready on your 24th birthday than it was the day before.

**seriousmass** · 07-29-2009, 12:25 PM

Originally Posted by Subotai

I know all you do is give advice, but you can't tell me you don't think its silly that different websites have each posted different arbitrary numbers that everyone of their members follows like it was gospel. Its like saying once you are 24 years old six months and 12 days you are ready, when none of these numbers should mean anything. Sure they can be used as a rough guide but everyone turns it into black and white. You can't honestly tell me you believe that by some magical chain of events your body is somehow more ready on your 24th birthday than it was the day before.

At 25 your HPTA is completely done developing, so age 25 + would be considered the optimal time to begin cycling. There's lots of debate of this though, so I doubt their will be a set age anytime soon