Long time bodybuilder. First cycle. Stacking Sustanon 250 + Trenbolone

**JuicedCobra** · 07-31-2009, 01:34 AM

Please review this and evaluate if I'm on the right track. Feeling a bit lost here!

First off my stats:

-I'll be 26 in 6 weeks
-6'4" 210 lbs (pre cycle)
-low body fat
-training on and off for 11 years naturally
Here's some pre-cycle pics. 210lbs. No pump here, just for reference:

I'm taking these products, labels read:
1. (2 bottles 5ml each)
EDIT: Cannot list lab name sorry
Sustaject 250
Test propionate 30mg/ml
Test phenylopropionate 60mg/ml
Test isocaproate 60mg/ml
Test decanoate 100mg/ml

2. (1 bottle 10ml)
EDIT: cannot list lab name sorry
Trenbolone 75
Contains trenbolone acetate 75mg/ml

Dosage:
I was instructed by my friend who sold it to me as well as my training partner, who are fairly experienced juicers, to take it like this:

Needle: 3cc 22Gx1.5"

First two weeks (4 injections)
Mon and Thurs
1ml Sust
.5ml Tren
Same needle

Remaining 6 weeks
Mon and Thurs
.5ml Sust
.5ml Tren
Same needle

I'm on Cytogainer and have doubled my calorie intake. I'm not currently taking creatine but was told to take it at the same time. I'm taking ***** 3's and multivitamin.

This is week 3 now and I'm on my 6th injection tonight. I'm up about 10lbs at 220lbs now. Feeling stronger.
Been jabbing in the glute and I've had major pain and swelling from the injections. Feels like a bad bruise. No redness and always goes away after about 4-5 days. I have been feeling fevorish for the past week however, not sure if it's the test levels messing with me or the tren raising my temp..?

A friend (also a 1st timer) is taking the exact same stack and is telling me he has the same pain and swelling but said nothing about fever.

Been researching and not sure if I'm taking this stuff often enough or what?? I read conflicting literature.

I hear these symptoms are normal. Then I hear they can be infection. Very confused here.

I'm reading I should take something for kidney health while on the Tren, True??

Any advice helps. Veteran bodybuilder.. But a novice juicer.. Thanks guys.

**G4R** · 07-31-2009, 01:41 AM

Originally Posted by JuicedCobra

Please review this and evaluate if I'm on the right track. Feeling a bit lost here!

First off my stats:

-I'll be 26 in 6 weeks
-6'4" 210 lbs (pre cycle)
-low body fat
-training on and off for 11 years naturally

I'm taking these products, labels read:
1. (2 bottles 5ml each)
EDIT
Sustaject 250
Test propionate 30mg/ml
Test phenylopropionate 60mg/ml
Test isocaproate 60mg/ml
Test decanoate 100mg/ml

2. (1 bottle 10ml)
EDIT
Trenbolone 75
Contains trenbolone acetate 75mg/ml

Dosage:
I was instructed by my friend who sold it to me as well as my training partner, who are fairly experienced juicers, to take it like this:

Needle: 3cc 22Gx1.5"

First two weeks (4 injections)
Mon and Thurs
1ml Sust
.5ml Tren
Same needle

Remaining 6 weeks
Mon and Thurs
.5ml Sust
.5ml Tren
Same needle

I'm on Cytogainer and have doubled my calorie intake. I'm not currently taking creatine but was told to take it at the same time. I'm taking ***** 3's and multivitamin.

This is week 3 now and I'm on my 6th injection tonight. I'm up about 10lbs at 220lbs now. Feeling stronger.
Been jabbing in the glute and I've had major pain and swelling from the injections. Feels like a bad bruise. No redness and always goes away after about 4-5 days. I have been feeling fevorish for the past week however, not sure if it's the test levels messing with me or the tren raising my temp..?

A friend (also a 1st timer) is taking the exact same stack and is telling me he has the same pain and swelling but said nothing about fever.

Been researching and not sure if I'm taking this stuff often enough or what?? I read conflicting literature.

I hear these symptoms are normal. Then I hear they can be infection. Very confused here.

I'm reading I should take something for kidney health while on the Tren, True??

Any advice helps. Veteran bodybuilder.. But a novice juicer.. Thanks guys.

Welcome
First off I must tell you that you need to edit those parts I have listed above. We are not allowed to list Lab names in threads or posts.

Second, if this is your fist cycle, I don't like the Tren for you. The main reason a good first cycle is Test only is to see how your body reacts to it. If you are running more than 1 compound, and you start to have bad effects, it is very hard to tell which one is the culprit.

Besides that, Tren is very harsh, and only recommended for people who are experienced in cycles.

**G4R** · 07-31-2009, 01:43 AM

Forgot to ask what your PCT is going to be.

**JuicedCobra** · 07-31-2009, 01:52 AM

Originally Posted by going4ripped

Welcome
First off I must tell you that you need to edit those parts I have listed above. We are not allowed to list Lab names in threads or posts.

Second, if this is your fist cycle, I don't like the Tren for you. The main reason a good first cycle is Test only is to see how your body reacts to it. If you are running more than 1 compound, and you start to have bad effects, it is very hard to tell which one is the culprit.

Besides that, Tren is very harsh, and only recommended for people who are experienced in cycles.

Sorry about that. Edited it.

Sounds about right. But harsh in what way??

PCT is going to be Nolvidex. But some are telling me to take Clomid as well.

What do you recomend?

All other factors aside is my dosage at least sound right?

Am I going to run out at the end since I'm trying to get 10ml from 10ml bottles which you can't really get all the 10ml from? Seems to pose a problem I hadn't considered..

**G4R** · 07-31-2009, 02:04 AM

Originally Posted by JuicedCobra

Sorry about that. Edited it.

Sounds about right. But harsh in what way??

PCT is going to be Nolvidex. But some are telling me to take Clomid as well.

What do you recomend?

All other factors aside is my dosage at least sound right?

Am I going to run out at the end since I'm trying to get 10ml from 10ml bottles which you can't really get all the 10ml from? Seems to pose a problem I hadn't considered..

Not my words here, but a good bit of info......

^^^"Firstly, as trenbolone is so androgenic , all side effects that are seen with strong androgens can be expected (if prone) with trenbolone. If one is prone to male pattern baldness (MPB) than trenbolone will likely speed this up. Some users find acne on trenbolone worse than when on any other steroid .

Despite the fact that trenbolone cannot aromatise, due to the progesterone route it can cause things like gynecomastia , but this will only really happen in the presence of estrogen. This does happen though in many users, as trenbolone is usually stacked with a testosterone , which obviously can and will convert to estrogen. Gynecomastia from trenbolone can be quite bad.

Trenbolone also seems to give many users poor sleep patterns and insomnia. In addition, it can cause severe sweating in many, both during the night time and also just from doing the smallest of activities such as walking up stairs, etc. It also can impair to a certain degree, cardiovascular function, which means that it is not ideal for use in those who regular partake in such sports or activity that require a decent level of cardiovascular fitness.

Trenbolone also increases blood pressure in many users, some to such a degree that they have to cease using it. Thus it is recommended that one who wishes to use trenbolone, invests in a blood pressure monitor so they can regularly measure their blood pressure and keep an eye on it throughout the cycle.

As trenbolone is such a strong steroid, it is very harsh on the HTPA axis and will shut down the body's natural testosterone production very easily and, for many, very harshly. It is comparable to 'deca dick' that people can experience with deca, and longer cycles may need to include the use of HCG to restore one's own natural production of testosterone. Recovery from cycles containing trenbolone is not easy, and requires a very well thought out and stringent PCT routine and diet."

**stpete** · 07-31-2009, 02:48 AM

Forget the tren for now. You don't even have enough to run it properly, and yes, you will run out. Agree with Ripped, test will be good enough for your first cycle. I recommend hitting the diet section of this forum as well. That might help more than anything.

**Immortal Soldier** · 07-31-2009, 02:51 AM

Well its kind of too late since you already are 3 weeks in, dosages are wack 250mg of sust a week and less than 80mg of tren ace per week? Wow should have researched my friend, tren ace needs to be shot everyday or at least every other day because of the ester, tren-e is the one that can be shot twice week since it is long ester NOT tren ace.

Add that to your low test dosage and incredibly low tren dosage and your wasting a cycle practically (not that you should have taken tren on your first cycle). We will see what your gains are in the end.

**V6A6L6O** · 07-31-2009, 03:05 AM

Hey mate, sorry to hear about the trouble you're having. Just a quick thought; Do you know that your source is reliable? i.e. legit gear. Good luck dude, hope the swelling gets better!!

**JuicedCobra** · 07-31-2009, 09:19 AM

Originally Posted by Immortal Soldier

Well its kind of too late since you already are 3 weeks in, dosages are wack 250mg of sust a week and less than 80mg of tren ace per week? Wow should have researched my friend, tren ace needs to be shot everyday or at least every other day because of the ester, tren-e is the one that can be shot twice week since it is long ester NOT tren ace.

Add that to your low test dosage and incredibly low tren dosage and your wasting a cycle practically (not that you should have taken tren on your first cycle). We will see what your gains are in the end.

If I can get my hands on some more sust can I up it and just stop the tren all together?

How much sust should I be taking?

Or is it too late now?

**JuicedCobra** · 07-31-2009, 09:37 AM

I was on 250mg Sust twice a week for the past two weeks. The last injection was the first that I stepped it down.

So should I step it back up to 500mg Sust per week and loose the Tren ??

Should I go get some more pins and start jabbing it EOD??

**JuicedCobra** · 07-31-2009, 09:41 AM

Oh and as for research there is alot of stuff out there sayin you can jab Sust once or twice a week...

**seriousmass** · 07-31-2009, 10:17 AM

Originally Posted by JuicedCobra

I was on 250mg Sust twice a week for the past two weeks. The last injection was the first that I stepped it down.

So should I step it back up to 500mg Sust per week and loose the Tren ??

Should I go get some more pins and start jabbing it EOD??

250mg each week is basically just above a TRT dosage. So yes that would be considered low.

Basically what you should do, is get another bottle of sustanon / pins, and begin injecting EOD (3 - 4 times per week) for example (125mg per injection x 4 injections = 500mg per week)

You can continue to run the tren if you want. I don't really see a need, especially as this is your first cycle. I mean, if you have your heart set on continuing with the tren... then use a small dosage.. IE (75mg EOD x 4 = 300mg EW) --- also, it would be better if you injected each day.. but I'm assuming you don't want to get into that, seeing as it is your first cycle.

**seriousmass** · 07-31-2009, 10:19 AM

Originally Posted by JuicedCobra

Oh and as for research there is alot of stuff out there sayin you can jab Sust once or twice a week...

you can, 2 times per week is still effective, just not optimal.

there isn't a MASSIVE different in blood-levels from injecting 2 times per week versus EOD with sustanon . However, if you want to ensure that you're taking full advantage of the prop ester in it's blend then you'll want to shoot EOD.

Also, since you're using Tren -A which is another short ester, it's simpler to just cut both compounds into the same syringe and inject them together. (since tren-A should basically be shot ED.)

**seriousmass** · 07-31-2009, 10:24 AM

Originally Posted by JuicedCobra

Been jabbing in the glute and I've had major pain and swelling from the injections. Feels like a bad bruise. No redness and always goes away after about 4-5 days. I have been feeling fevorish for the past week however, not sure if it's the test levels messing with me or the tren raising my temp..?

A friend (also a 1st timer) is taking the exact same stack and is telling me he has the same pain and swelling but said nothing about fever..

The fever can be from one of two things:

a.) Test-Flu. (basically some people get sick at the beginning of the cycle from testosterone ..)

b.) The Tren sides. (tren sides include: insomnia, night-sweats, excessive sweating, a horrible cough, increased aggression, etc)... however, at your dosage of like 50mg each week.. well I'm not even sure these sides would present themself yet! lol..

The swelling is from the Sustanon ... the short esters in it string a bit when you inject them / they will make your muscle swell & get a knot in them... especially since you've never injected before and have virgin muscles.

**hankdiesel** · 07-31-2009, 01:24 PM

You need more test, more research, clomid, and lose the tren .

**marcus300** · 07-31-2009, 01:32 PM

Originally Posted by hankdiesel

You need more test, more research, clomid, and lose the tren.

I agreed with Hank ^^^^^^^^^

**MR10X** · 07-31-2009, 02:29 PM

Originally Posted by seriousmass

250mg each week is basically just above a TRT dosage. So yes that would be considered low.

Basically what you should do, is get another bottle of sustanon / pins, and begin injecting EOD (3 - 4 times per week) for example (125mg per injection x 4 injections = 500mg per week)

You can continue to run the tren if you want. I don't really see a need, especially as this is your first cycle. I mean, if you have your heart set on continuing with the tren... then use a small dosage.. IE (75mg EOD x 4 = 300mg EW) --- also, it would be better if you injected each day.. but I'm assuming you don't want to get into that, seeing as it is your first cycle.

250mg is above TRT dose because it builds up weekly because of the slow release. TRT dose is 250mg a month which is what sustanon was designed for a once a month shot.

**seriousmass** · 07-31-2009, 03:11 PM

Originally Posted by MR10X

250mg is above TRT dose because it builds up weekly because of the slow release. TRT dose is 250mg a month which is what sustanon was designed for a once a month shot.

You have no idea what you're talking about. Stop reading steroid profiles, and regurgitating the information. It'll make you look very uneducated.

Oh.. and P.S. sustanon is RARELY used for TRT, and was only prescribed @ 250mg / month for a very shot period of time; until people started realizing that method of treatment was ineffective, and using a long ester @ 150 - 300mg each week, was much more suitable.

**MR10X** · 07-31-2009, 03:42 PM

Originally Posted by seriousmass

You have no idea what you're talking about. Stop reading steroid profiles, and regurgitating the information. It'll make you look very uneducated.

Oh.. and P.S. sustanon is RARELY used for TRT, and was only prescribed @ 250mg / month for a very shot period of time; until people started realizing that method of treatment was ineffective, and using a long ester @ 150 - 300mg each week, was much more suitable.

Dont be stupid,250mg a week is NOT TRT.

**seriousmass** · 07-31-2009, 03:52 PM

Originally Posted by MR10X

Dont be stupid,250mg a week is NOT TRT.

holy crap. I can't believe no one else has jumped in here and smacked this newb up for me.

MR10X.... TRT dosage is between 150 - 300mg each week, AS PREVIOUSLY STATED.

The most common dosage is 200mg each week.

Do a search next time, it'll make you look a lot less uneducated.

peace.

**MR10X** · 07-31-2009, 03:59 PM

Your the newbee,ive been doing stuff for 25 years,how old are you sport.

**RANA** · 07-31-2009, 04:16 PM

Originally Posted by Immortal Soldier

Well its kind of too late since you already are 3 weeks in, dosages are wack 250mg of sust a week and less than 80mg of tren ace per week? Wow should have researched my friend, tren ace needs to be shot everyday or at least every other day because of the ester, tren-e is the one that can be shot twice week since it is long ester NOT tren ace.

Add that to your low test dosage and incredibly low tren dosage and your wasting a cycle practically (not that you should have taken tren on your first cycle). We will see what your gains are in the end.

^^^agree^^^
this was a waste of a cycle, get off tren stick with test and get all your PCT then stop the cycle.

**marcus300** · 07-31-2009, 04:16 PM

The starting required HRT dose is around 250mgs per 14 days, also depends what range your endro wants you to be in but thats the average.

**JuicedCobra** · 07-31-2009, 05:22 PM

Ok my thread seems to be getting side tracked with TRT debates here...

Please guys I need some solid answers on what to do now.

I'm stopping the Tren all together, I was obviously wasting my time with it.

I've done 500mg of Sust for the last two weeks. Only the last shot on monday did I take .5ml instead of 1ml like the past two weeks.

Should I then take 1ml today and then start on an EOD regimen of making sure I'm on track for 500mg a week for the remainder of time. I was considering making it 8 or 10 weeks total.

If I can't get Sust in time (stuff I got came from Europe) can I switch to another Test at that time and if so what would be good?

Thanks for all the advice guys.

**JuicedCobra** · 07-31-2009, 11:07 PM

I went ahead and did 1ml of Sust no Tren tonight.

In my buddy's defense he was thinking that an extreme low dose of Tren would help me cut without too much side effects while on the Sust. Is he way off base with that? Even if I was doin EOD or ED jabs it would just be pointless and risky to run it?

Thanks.

**marcus300** · 07-31-2009, 11:11 PM

You dont want to be running tren in your first cycle, stick with one compound

***RAGE*** · 07-31-2009, 11:16 PM

Originally Posted by seriousmass

holy crap. I can't believe no one else has jumped in here and smacked this newb up for me.

MR10X.... TRT dosage is between 150 - 300mg each week, AS PREVIOUSLY STATED.

The most common dosage is 200mg each week.

Do a search next time, it'll make you look a lot less uneducated.

peace.

Originally Posted by MR10X

Your the newbee,ive been doing stuff for 25 years,how old are you sport.

MR10 you are right and seriousmass is wrong again but no surprise there. I have been on TRT for a year now and it is 200mg eow..

**greekgodsarenothing** · 06-23-2012, 11:04 AM

hello. i am also stacking sus. 250 and trenabolin as well as taking 40 mgs of dbol . im taking 500mg of test a week as well as 2 mls of trenbolin. i am 29 and have been working out for almost 2 years now. im looking for advice on how to get the most outta this. i use to weigh 270 pounds of pure fat. cut down to 170 in 15 months naturally aND STARTed my bulk cycle to put on mass, four months ago now. i weigh 205 now and have been taking sustano 250 for 60 days, iam now taking the sus 250 and trenbolin as well as dbol. im looking for any advice on how to get the most outta my gear, i work out 5 days a week for 2 hours a time complete with warm up and streching so almost 1.5 hour of weight. i eat clean like 100 percent clean and lots about 3000 calories with 45 grams of fat and 400 grams of carbs and 180 to 220 grams on the protein. any advie would help alot thanks

**gixxerboy1** · 06-23-2012, 11:14 AM

please start your own thread. This is 3 years old.
list cycle with dosages. 2ml's means nothing.
list your stats, height,age .weight bf%
cycle experience