var only cycle with a lil' dball

**oksooner** · 12-21-2002, 12:38 PM

bros tell me what you think of this cycle-first cycle ever and i'm at 6' 220 pounds right now, about 15% bf. looking to gain about 15 pounds and lose about 4% bf with a clean diet since i'm a newbie. i won't do injectables with my first cycle

i know its oral-only but notice that the two are only run together for one week simultaneously:

wk 1-4 dbol 25 mg ED
wk 1-4 liquidex .5 mg ED
wk 4-10 anavar (bonavar) 30 mg ED

post: nolvadex 40/20/20 3 weeks

i'm thinking i'll keep all the gains off the dbol with no bloat and add some more quality gains and shed some bf by finishing off with var. i'm also thinking estrogen rebound won't be that bad post since var isn't a heavy androgen and dbol isn't used after week 4

again, i'm not looking to get huge, just cut up and gain some. will these gains be keepable? thanks!

**MBaraso** · 12-21-2002, 12:47 PM

d-bol is for bulking only. If your looking to cut then don't use it.
And if you don't wanna use an injectable then you shouldn't be in this game to begin with IMO.

**Madmax** · 12-21-2002, 12:51 PM

i agree, you need to use injectables...think about how your liver would feel. you got to stick yourself if you want good results..orals can only take you so far..Madmax..

**oksooner** · 12-21-2002, 12:58 PM

bump

see this is what i didn't want. a lot of dudes are just anti oral cycles and won't even consider them. please look at it objectively, since i'm pretty sure i'll get good gains. don't flip me this "get out of the game" shit

baraso-it's not just a cutting cycle. the idea would be that i could have the best of both worlds with the dbol and var. people consistently post that with var only they gain like 7-10 lbs and lose 3-4% bf. i could just do the var only, but i'm thinking dbol would give me a little more mass post-cycle than var only would, while still giving me the fat-burning properties of the var

**oksooner** · 12-21-2002, 01:00 PM

madmax-i'm not looking to make massive gains. i know only injectables will give me this, but i don't need huge gains right now.

and i KNOW from my research that any elevated liver values will only be transient. i seriously doubt i'll have any liver damage from this cycle

**Madmax** · 12-21-2002, 01:26 PM

were not downing on you. you put up this thread for your questions to be awnsered..so don't get all bent out of shape when we give you awnsers that you don't like...take advice from people who have been cycling a while..were just trying to help..injectables can be used to cut up also, (primo, winny, eq..ect)....Madmax..

**oksooner** · 12-21-2002, 05:10 PM

bump for other opinions please

**dizzle** · 12-21-2002, 09:25 PM

IMO, the Var is very expensive. With the same amount of money, you can do test prop and winny and getter better cutting results.

**Leroy Brown** · 12-21-2002, 10:58 PM

Originally posted by MBaraso
d-bol is for bulking only.

Bullshit. What hole did you pull that out of? Dbol is anti catabolic, it increases protein synthesis, and it increases nitrogen retention. IE: it preserves muscle while dieting. Just add an anti-E to prevent estrogenic fat deposits, and you've got yourself a good cheap cutting cycle.

**oksooner** · 12-21-2002, 11:06 PM

thanks bros i'm actually getting some more informed opinions now

i know that prop/winny would be as good, but if money is no object, then wouldn't the results be equivalent to my proposed cycle?

**D_BEAR** · 12-22-2002, 01:39 AM

dont stay on to long
orals are bad for you
just be care ful
when i see someone who ask about a oral cycle
i always worry bout them it is very easy since you cannot see your liver to over do it on the oral AS
it sounds really good for a cycle
just give yourself a long enough recovery time

**nj_** · 12-22-2002, 01:57 AM

Originally posted by MBaraso
d-bol is for bulking only. If your looking to cut then don't use it.
And if you don't wanna use an injectable then you shouldn't be in this game to begin with IMO.

Not necessarily. I've seen a guy get shredded using dbol /liquidex as his cutting cycle. Yes, you heard me, dbol and liquidex. Remember people, its the diet thats the most crucial part of this entire package.

**MBaraso** · 12-22-2002, 02:13 AM

Originally posted by Leroy Brown

Bullshit. What hole did you pull that out of? Dbol is anti catabolic, it increases <a href="http://www.allsportsnutrition.com/listproducts.php?style=category&value=PROTEIN" target="_blank">protein</a> synthesis, and it increases nitrogen retention. IE: it preserves muscle while dieting. Just add an anti-E to prevent estrogenic fat deposits, and you've got yourself a good cheap cutting cycle.

j

Maybe that will work for u..........I'm not going to argue. (I know who u are)
Gain 20lbs....Good luck keeping......15lbs......you won't keep 10lbs
If you gain 5lbs i'd be inpressed............

**KIMBLE** · 12-22-2002, 02:43 AM

Originally posted by Leroy Brown

Bullshit. What hole did you pull that out of? Dbol is anti catabolic, it increases <a href="http://www.allsportsnutrition.com/listproducts.php?style=category&value=PROTEIN" target="_blank">protein</a> synthesis, and it increases nitrogen retention. IE: it preserves muscle while dieting. Just add an anti-E to prevent estrogenic fat deposits, and you've got yourself a good cheap cutting cycle.

hey Mr.Bullshit. you are really bullshit whith these guys here. what'a sup with the degrading comment? if you ask me, you are mr. BULLSHIT. name one AAS that is NOT anti catabolic? name one AAS that is not nitrogen retention and protein synthesis(allow amino acid to enter the muscle cells)?name one AAS which does not preserve or at least maintain while dieting? " Just add an anti-E to prevent estrogenic fat deposits " what fat deposit? he is dieting. he is eating below his maintenance calories intake. the only thing happen during this possess is the fat he already had refuses to go. the dbol is holding strength cuz it holds water ad you won't lose a pound if you use the scale. personally, dbol is a bad choice. go with anavar and winni tab and proper diet and training. cardio is a must.

**oksooner** · 12-22-2002, 10:27 AM

well bros it looks like ive got a good cycle. thanks for the help

baraso, im pretty sure i'll gain at least 5 pounds...you know who i am? whatever

**Leroy Brown** · 12-22-2002, 09:55 PM

Originally posted by KIMBLE

hey Mr.Bullshit. you are really bullshit whith these guys here. what'a sup with the degrading comment? if you ask me, you are mr. BULLSHIT. name one AAS that is NOT anti catabolic? name one AAS that is not nitrogen retention and <a href="http://www.allsportsnutrition.com/listproducts.php?style=category&value=PROTEIN" target="_blank">protein</a> synthesis(allow amino acid to enter the muscle cells)?name one AAS which does not preserve or at least maintain while dieting? " Just add an anti-E to prevent estrogenic fat deposits " what fat deposit? he is dieting. he is eating below his maintenance calories intake. the only thing happen during this possess is the fat he already had refuses to go. the dbol is holding strength cuz it holds water ad you won't lose a pound if you use the scale. personally, dbol is a bad choice. go with anavar and winni tab and proper diet and training. cardio is a must.

**oksooner** · 12-23-2002, 10:45 AM

one more question for you bros!

which of these 2 cycles would give me more KEEPABLE gains?

1: wk 1-4 dbol @25 mg ED
wk 1-4 ldex @ .5 mg EOD
wk 4-9 anavar @ 40 mg ED
nolva 40/20/20 post

2: (anavar only)
wks 1-8 anavar @ 45 mg ED

remember it's my 1st cycle so i shuld gain easily!

**lunarwolf** · 12-24-2002, 01:12 PM

I was thinking about a similar cycle. Would those low doses of d-bol and Anavar be dangerous to your liver? Would Primo tabs be a better alternative to the d-bol?

**husun** · 12-24-2002, 11:08 PM

primobolon tabs are not 17aa so maybe they would be a better choice in an all oral cycle to be combined with a 17aa dbol ? how would the gains be anavar vs primobolon

**Krapfen** · 12-25-2002, 01:26 PM

primobolan s tabs are very weak, i would only give them to a woman. they can have good results with half a tab (12.5mg) a day, but for men, you will need at least 100mg per day to feel anything. it gets pretty expensive this way. no, neither anavar nor primo tabs are cost/benefit effetive for a mass cycle.
i don't know why some people a scared from dbol (and anadrol also)? there is scientific evidence that it is not liver toxic when taken for up to 12 weeks at 100mg per day. considering anadrol, often touted as the "harshest" oral roid, there has been a study done this year, where they gave 65-80 year old men 100mg anadrol for 12 weeks - no problems whatsoever.
sure, if you take 100mg per day for months and binge drink every weekend, then expect some problems (although many aids patients run abombs for years now and still live). but for the usual mass cycle, dbol ist a cost effective way to increase mass. for best results, stack it with an androgen (fina, nandrolon, test).