Printable View
I want to bump this idea around... a staged cycle of short androgenic esters using an anabolic base. Cutting cycle.
Weeks 1-13: Equipoise 400mg
Weeks 1-4: Test Prop 100mg EOD
Weeks 3-8: Winstrol 50mg ED
Weeks 5-8: Trenbolone 75mg ED
Weeks 7-10: Winstrol 50mg ED
Weeks 9-12: Test Prop 100mg EOD
Weeks 11-14: Winstrol 50mg ED
Weeks 13-16: Trenbolone 75mg ED
Keeps receptors guessing... OPINIONS?
hey bro, you have winstrol from 3-8 and 7-10 and 11-14, so basically 3-14? 11 weeks 17aa isn't the best idea, but ive seen worse....the keep the receptors guessing thing i dont agree with because they are all AR receptors, the only thing that keeps them fresh is the half life of what your using and the avid binding affinity, nevertheless besides the duration of the winny and considering your diet/training/sleep are in order, you should yield some fantastic results, best of luck
Not sure if this is what I will do with the gear but i wanted to see some opinions on running short burst like this versus a standard stack. I would give it a shot and see how it goes and let you know - but I wanted to hear some feedback on this type of cycle...
I like the Tren and Prop because they are both very androgenic yet they have an entirely different process. Tren being a 19-Nor versus a Testosterone... Prop being obviously a Test.
Maybe it would be better to run the Winny the first 5 weeks as a jump for the Equipoise... and then at the end with Tren. Cuts it down to 9 weeks with a longer time off inbetween.
/// Door Number 2:
Weeks 1-12: Equipoise 400mg
Weeks 1-5: Winstrol 50mg ED
Weeks 1-4: Test Prop 100mg EOD
Weeks 5-8: Trenbolone 75mg ED
Weeks 9-12: Test Prop 100mg EOD
Weeks 13-16: Trenbolone 75mg ED
Weeks 13-16: Winstrol 50mg ED
You got my vote. Looks safe to me. Go for it and let me know what happens!
Fuck it... I'll be the board Guinea Pig... :lol:
Anyone think maybe an HCG shot or two should be mixed in? Like 3 days after each Prop rotation?
I like the idea and am planning on doing something similar in the future.
I would do somthing more like this....
wks 1-4 or 6 Test prop
wks 1-4 or 6 Fina
Then take 3 wks off and get on clomid then do...
wks 1-4 or 6 Test prop
wks 1-4 or 6 Winny
I dont think you even need the eq, and by running such short burst cycles you dont need much recovery time.
skii96, I don't want to do the short stack... but i am familiar with it. I want to run the gear for the duration but thinking about switching the Prop back and forth with Tren... rather than on top of each other.
/// Door Number 3:
Weeks 1-12: Equipoise 400mg
Weeks 1-5: Winstrol 50mg ED
Weeks 1-4: Trenbolone 75mg ED
Weeks 5-7: Test Prop 100mg EOD
Weeks 8-11: Trenbolone 75mg ED
Weeks 12-14: Test Prop 100mg EOD
Weeks 12-14: Winstrol 50mg ED
Week 15: Begin Clomid
Tren 4 weeks, Prop for 3. Begin wth Tren/Winny instead of Prop/Winny.
I like door #3. Except I'd run the tren wk 8-14, tren/winny go very well together.
Is this your first cycle?
There is nothing wrong with running short burst cycles like you want to, however it will not keep your receptors guessing, in the presence of superphisiological amounts of androgens, the human body upregulates the Androgen receptor, and makes it work more efficiently and actualy even preduce new receptors to acomodate the increase of androgens. On another not 200 lb human body only has about 172 receptors, which would be fully saturated with only 2.5mg os Anavar. We all know that you will not make any gains from 2.5mg a day, so there obviously has to be a non-AR reletad muscle building stimulation. But in any case for the most part an Androgen is an Androgen to a human body, but the cycles look good....good luck...XXL
Just a suggest...
eq///////prop//////win//////tren
400//////////////////////////////
800//////////////////////////////
800//////////////////////////////
400/////100eod//////////////////
/////////100eod//////////////////
/////////100eod/////////////////
///////////////////50ed////75ed
//////////////////100ed///75ed
//////////////////100ed////75ed
Repeat stair order again till done... I've done something similar but using a riforvit d-bol that has alot on vitamins and mild diuretic. did a deca -dbol 4weeks then a prop 3 weeks into winny/test suspension for 4 weeks then repeated
Major strength from the d-bol deca into a pumping prop and then a lean hard winny/ test suspension... felt good and clean.... superb diet to go along
good to see the experimentaion, happy growing
What's up mmaximus25? Our last conversation inspired this little idea :D ...
I started thinking about it and was looking at the Tren/Winny alternating with Prop/Proviron...
eq///////prop//////win//////tren//////proviron
400////////////////////////////////////////
800////////////////////////////////////////
800////////////////////////////////////////
400/////100eod/////////////////////////75ed
/////////100eod/////////////////////////75ed
/////////100eod/////////////////////////75ed
///////////////////50ed////75ed/////////////
//////////////////100ed////75ed/////////////
//////////////////100ed////75ed/////////////
REPEAT
dude I made a mistake the eq portion compared to my deca-d-bol is drawn out more I have a note 600-800mg for 6 weeks... so it was 600-2w..800-2w...600 2 more weeks then into my prop...
I like proviron, only at the end when coming down from the whole thing Have you ever tryed any test suspension??
With the responses you got from your post. This could be an opportunity for another disscussion about receptor mapping and saturation techniques??? Those you have done a year long pin cusion can get in and hopefully respond
MIke XXL, you touched on a thoery that I have probably fowled up for others. The anbolic growth of muscle fiber must have another or secondary path for hypertroph. In experimenting with my body I have taken (my modest array) each androgen and made a hack data script. but I can say that with each different molecule from these hormones some have simmilar effects and others are on the opposite side of that androgen spectrum. So When I made a comment as to keeping my receptors jumping It has more to do with the testoserone dirivitive as a molecule having a different effect on that used receptor; than the androgen before and as new receptors become avalible they too become acustom to the dose and molecule so changing the androgen crates more receptor site production.
MMAX
No... no Test Suspension - but can probably get the script. But considering the Prop ester is so small... and I already got a hold of Verimone Prop... it should be good to go.
The thinking behind the Proviron was... the Winny with the Tren helps prevent Progesterone and the Proviron with Prop helps regulate estrogen... but both have ome androgenic properties. Plus, according to Llewellyn, Winstrol and Proviron "have a profound impact on levels of SHBG" and "increase the potency of the concurrently used steroid.
eq///////prop//////win//////tren//////proviron
600////////////////////////////////////////
800////////////////////////////////////////
800////////////////////////////////////////
600/////100eod/////////////////////////75ed
600/////100eod/////////////////////////75ed
/////////100eod/////////////////////////75ed
///////////////////50ed////75ed/////////////
//////////////////100ed////75ed/////////////
//////////////////100ed////75ed/////////////
REPEAT
I guess we won’t be starting any big debates... will we... everyone's asleep...
I need to get my script. I can say your gonna guinea for sure now. I have yet to harness the true power of estrogen. I used the proviron in a different way but I still wanna look... I'll get back... The sad thing is some shit I actually wrote in pencil... but do some thing for me... try and keep a log( mediocre ) for your calorie intake in grams if possible(carb, protein, fat) I know its not easy but if you can... I have a thing about high carbs and high aromatizing andros. And since your using more anabolic less androgenic... Ok I'm getting off track... I'll hit you later...but I think lowering your carb even more so during you prop and taking a pro-tein gram might do some good things...anyway
Forgot, Just mensioned the suspension because of the hardness I needed for a shoot I snagged. not really necessary
for your experiment. It was in my array that looks close to yours...this is getting good though...
Thanks brah - I will probably stagger it like that once I finish rounding everything up...
The only thing that concerns me is after the Tren and back to just Equipoise I might have a few weeks that... well, suck. Do you think I should put some HCG in when neither Tren nor Prop is being ran?
eq///////prop//////win//////tren//////proviron////////HCG
600////////////////////////////////////////////////////1500IU EOD
800////////////////////////////////////////////////////1500IU EOD
800////////////////////////////////////////////////////1500IU EOD
600////100 EOD/////////////////////////75 ED
600////100 EOD/////////////////////////75 ED
////////100 EOD/////////////////////////75 ED
///////////////////50 ED/////75 ED/////////////
//////////////////100 ED/////75 ED/////////////
//////////////////100 ED/////75 ED/////////////
Ok brother this is all I got... I think if you can really pay attention to your body you'll be able to log your proviron study.
I only used proviron in my mega dose days... It looks like on the more androgenic hits. I have note saying can't tell if the water is going or coming, but then further down saying the proviron works. I just can’t remember writing this... anyway more notes: I took it so I wouldn’t aggravate my bitch tit. Way more expensive than nolva though...But fucking worth it (note: works better as preventative... if you have gyno the nolva will, in my case total subside. More notes... the proviron works to the definition... use with the anadrol, prop, d-bol, enanth, works excellent...
Ok dude I'm not helping...
judgeing from my log I used it for its definition, I need to recap. I have not taken this in a yr & 1/2...but I'm more interested in your findings now... There is a difference though I ran a longer cycle and it lasted 8mo. all the proviron was used in the beginning when the 4week 1000mg,2000,2000,1000 of enanth, then to 3 week prop 700mg then to anadrol 30,40,40,30...these were staggers...
hey off track again... dude your shit is gonna work is just interesting not to see more use of proviron... You also have to under stand I was logging but had my head in a book trying to figure shit out at the same time and most likely used it because of what I read....
I just looked proviron up, your using it right your previous explanation of why your coupling it I haven't formulated yet...
good luck brother...your doing good
MMax
Me personally... I use the HCG at the end of my heavy androgen types. Since this is a cycle still you want your boys kicking for sure when your done. I would use 5000iu's a week for 3-4 at the end. I'm serious bro you should feel it that week, you can break it in the 2500 doses but 5000 total a week. your test production should kick into a 300 percentile over natural production and bring you back quick but dont go longer than 4 weeks because you dont want tits.
Thanks again - I'll keep a record as well. I think the way my last post looks is pretty well ironed out the way I want to try this. As far as diet - I am going to keep moderate carbs - 40-30-30 - with extra cardio...
During the Eq/HCG part I will limit cardio and do carb loading on the weekends (less androgens).
This should be a good direction for some razor cuts for the spring...
What about the three weeks of no androgens - just the Equipoise? HCG then right? To keep everything moving okay...
You mean HCG in the middle and end right? If so... yeah...I would...Its normally how I transition to my next stagger too... keeps me feeling good... no emotional discomfort...
Merry Xmas Bro I'm out for a couple, but I'll hit you on the main board to check your prog...
Yeah - middle and end.
Alright braddah - the end result with calorie cycling. Not necessarily for competition or one particular day - but as a general, staggered cutting cycle to lower bodyfat and increase lean weight/strength, vascularity:
EQ///////PROP/////WIN///TREN//////PROV//////HCG//////CLOMID//CALORIES
600////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////Base
800////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////Base
800////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////High
600////100 EOD///////////////////////75 ED/////////////////////////////Low
600////100 EOD///////////////////////75 ED/////////////////////////////Low
////////100 EOD///////////////////////75 ED/////////////////////////////Base
///////////////////50 ED////75 ED////////////////////////////////////////Base
//////////////////100 ED////75 ED////////////////////////////////////////Low
//////////////////100 ED////75 ED////////////////////////////////////////Low
600///////////////////////////////////////////////1500 EOD//////////////High
800///////////////////////////////////////////////1500 EOD//////////////High
800///////////////////////////////////////////////1500EOD///////////////Base
600////100 EOD///////////////////////75 ED/////////////////////////////Base
600////100 EOD///////////////////////75 ED/////////////////////////////Low
////////100 EOD///////////////////////75 ED/////////////////////////////Low
///////////////////50 ED////75 ED////////////////////////////////////////Base
//////////////////100 ED////75 ED////////////////////////////////////////Base
//////////////////100 ED////75 ED////////////////////////////////////////Low
///////////////////////////////////////////////////1500IU EOD///100 ED//High
///////////////////////////////////////////////////1500IU EOD///100 ED//Base
///////////////////////////////////////////////////1500IU EOD////50 ED//Base
I agree with djdjdj whats the purpose of running winstrol wk 3-8 wk7-10 then 11-14? I would run winny towards the end of cycle. I personaly wouldnt do the cycle that way the eq looks good cause it takes about 6 or 7 weeks for me to see the eq working so thats why i run eq at least 15 weeks but I would run the tren and prop together and not have gaps between them to do winny. My gym partner just looked at this post and agreed with me but thats just our opinions. GL if you do go through with it, keep us posted.
Hey rangerdude, look at my last post... this stagger has kind of changed since the original post... read through the thread and you can see how we have been ironing it out.
The Winny/Tren and Prop/Proviron is used and the high dose anabolic inbetween (Eq right now - might change to Deca depending on the script costs). Winny is only ran now for a total of 6 weeks, two 3 weeks rotations... at a higer dose than normal, 100 ED.
What up pin cushion...Your a regular pig now, Have'nt figured my next move I'm still on the prop 100 eod and will be easing into my d-bol/deca again in about 2 weeks...
Fuck yeah...Great experiment...I'm geting amped thinking about it...
Just my spit... Keep the Saturated fats at .25g per lb of body weight and watch out for refined sugars.
Another spit... When Dieting I'm strict as fuck during the week but on the weekend I make sure my pizza doesn't get cold...& beer... I zig-zag during the week doing high and low carb and pro-tein intake
ex day 1 -2g of P per lb, 1g of C per lb- then switch the next day and so forth.. I dont eat more than .25g of fat per lb.
Best of luck... Good experiment..., I can see the white horse from your dialated pupils, as you pass out after squatting until God says "sit tha fuck down"
Happy growing bro...
Haha - yeah... pin cushion it is.
Yeah - I'll zig-zag during the week but do two week macro cycles.
I'm getting psyced and I'll let ya know when I do start... the only things that might change is Deca instead of Eq... after reading your post on another thread, I did realize that I did much better on Deca than Equipoise and i should probably not ignor that.
Oh and training :D ... will be alternating A, B, C. A days, B days, and C days. A = GVT, B = POF, C = Holistic. But I want to take the holistic even further this time and see if I can eventually sustain myself toward the end of the cycle up to a 45 minute giant set of around 500 total reps. Currently my Holistics are only about 15-20 minutes for 200 total reps. I will keep track of strength progress with A, and sometimes B days. Arms (Delts, Bicpes, Triceps) will be prioritized with more C days for hypertrophy than other bodyparts.
Thanks brah...