Explain this

[ganu]

This is interesting..cycle tbol/var and bioidentical test cream

My test first week of the cycle was at 219.7 range 166-877
4th week it was at 536 ,6th week it dropped to 434 when i discontinued tbol and stayed with var for the last 2 weeks..

My estr was at 16 then 25 and last week at 39..after 2 weeks of pct and no libido i went for a blood test and found that the estr was low at 10..and test at 241..so i understood that it was the estrogen that caused the libido death..

So either the serms nolva20/clomid50 or proviron @25 caused this estrogen to go low..but then proviron reduces shbg and for me it went from 8.53 (4th week) to 24.7 (2weeks after pct) range 13-71..so exactly whats the scenario here..if proviron is not working then nolva or clomid is killing the libido..but they dont reduce estrogen just block it at the hypothalamus and the pituitary..so whats reducing the estr..

My free test went from 18.51(4th week) range4.25-30.37 to whopping 48.86 in the 8th week..but total test fell down from 536 (4th week) to 434 (8th week)..tbol was removed from the equation on the 6th week so it could cause a fall in total test,but can someone explain this reduction in total test and raise in free test to such very good range..

[ninesecz]

Way too much here for me to figure out for you! not sure what you are even asking

[ganu]

Way too much here for me to figure out for you! not sure what you are even asking

whats causing the estrogen to reduce if proviron is not working on the shbg..what product could cause total test to go low and free test super out of range..var or bioidentical test

[tboney]

How old are you bro? What are your stats, bf% etc?

[ganu]

How old are you bro? What are your stats, bf% etc?

bro am 35..bf @11% (before cycle was 17%)
5.11ft
wt now 76kgs(start of cycle was 72/end of cycle was 79kgs)

have posted my blood work on the forum throughout the cycle..check it out

[TITANIUM]

Bump to a vet^^^^^. I'm watching and learning.


Sometimes you need a PhD in chemistry to answer questions like this..



Be patient.

[ganu]

bump to a vet^^^^^. I'm watching and learning.


Sometimes you need a phd in chemistry to answer questions like this..



Be patient.

same here..bump to a vet

[ranging1]

the proviron would increase the free range test u experienced,

even though nolva/clomid doesnt reduce estrogen but block it, it still can reduce ur libido, blocking estrogen results in less estrogen remaining, theirfore reducing ur libido

thiers alot of info their so i think ive ansered ur question

or did i miss read it?

[ganu]

the proviron would increase the free range test u experienced,

even though nolva/clomid doesnt reduce estrogen but block it, it still can reduce ur libido, blocking estrogen results in less estrogen remaining, theirfore reducing ur libido

thiers alot of info their so i think ive ansered ur question

or did i miss read it?

the proviron was introduced only in the pct where the free test has gone down drastically to 4.58 and shbg up at 24.7..so its evident that proviron at 25 did not work for me to lower shbg and increase free test..

blocking the receptor sites dont mean reduction in total estrogen..it should still be floating around having nowhere to go.but my estr reduced..only assumption left is that proviron reduced the estr..now after leaving proviron for the third week my libido is still not back..so it has to be nolva or clomid killing the libido

my question still remains unanswered..what caused the drop in total test and increase in free test.. tbol went out of the equation which could explain the drop in total test..so does it means that var or bioidentical test cream caused the free test to increase?..hmmm

[ranging1]

free test could still be raised by proviron , even though it may have failed in shbg, it still would have lowered it, juts mayeb not to a significant amount u were expecting

nolva and clomid can kill ur libido, u should be lowering ur dosage as PCT continues to allow ur libido to return, ALOT of people after cycles only get their libido back after 2 or 3 months, some even longer depending on what they run

the drop in total test is a result of anabolic steroid usage

have i ansered it yet

[ganu]

free test could still be raised by proviron , even though it may have failed in shbg, it still would have lowered it, juts mayeb not to a significant amount u were expecting..proviron is killing the estr so discontinuing proviron is the first option as opposed to let it raise free test..

nolva and clomid can kill ur libido, u should be lowering ur dosage as PCT continues to allow ur libido to return, ALOT of people after cycles only get their libido back after 2 or 3 months, some even longer depending on what they run..will discontinue clomid after 3 days so for the fourth week will be only on nolva to see if it helps libido return..will also try adding dhea

the drop in total test is a result of anabolic steroid usage..that is already accepted
have i ansered it yet

..still have to experiment by the eliminating process but thanks for the help

[ranging1]

least ur dropping ur clomid, drop the proviron now in another week its up to, just see how u feel

i know this sounds horrible but DONT EXPECT UR LIBIDO TO RETURN that fast, like i said alot of people it takes time, i have a mate who reckons he just got his libido back, and hes been off gear for 3 months now, so it can take time to fully recover

suggestion is watch some porn every night, their are studies that show during sexual arousal mens test levels can be raised by almost 30- 50% short short periods of time

also look up Vigrx, ive tried it and it works wonder for sex drive, i was horny as hell all the time, took a month to kick in BUT it works

[ganu]

lol..yes now watching porn would be the last option..am trying tribulus and gnc cobra..lets see if it helps after i drop the clomid

[Dancer]

This is interesting..cycle tbol/var and bioidentical test cream

My test first week of the cycle was at 219.7 range 166-877
4th week it was at 536 ,6th week it dropped to 434 when i discontinued tbol and stayed with var for the last 2 weeks..

While on cycle you are using the cream, the amount of free test increases

My estr was at 16 then 25 and last week at 39..after 2 weeks of pct and no libido i went for a blood test and found that the estr was low at 10..and test at 241..so i understood that it was the estrogen that caused the libido death..

Not exactly, although low estrogen does cause labido to die so does high estrogen <<< thats a side note... your 241 is shit you way below the scale if the range is up to 841, you have little to no free countable test

So either the serms nolva20/clomid50 or proviron @25 caused this estrogen to go low..but then proviron reduces shbg and for me it went from 8.53 (4th week) to 24.7 (2weeks after pct) range 13-71..so exactly whats the scenario here..if proviron is not working then nolva or clomid is killing the libido..but they dont reduce estrogen just block it at the hypothalamus and the pituitary..so whats reducing the estr..


Did you take proviron PCT and think your shit was gonna drop? I did that... proviron does not cause your HPTA to recover. Here on the boards there have been pissing matches about how proviron does not hinder HPTA, I said it before and say it again IT DOES HINDER HPTA... And everyone always says of proviron blah this and blah that


My free test went from 18.51(4th week) range4.25-30.37 to whopping 48.86 in the 8th week..but total test fell down from 536 (4th week) to 434 (8th week)..tbol was removed from the equation on the 6th week so it could cause a fall in total test,but can someone explain this reduction in total test and raise in free test to such very good range..

100 point fluctuation is not that dramatic, a guy on 2-3g of test has free test levels in the 4000+ range... fluctuation of 100 is easily explained by the back of the cream ledger, you have to apply it evenly and blah blah blah or obsorbtion is not blah blah blah

Proviron during pct and hpta recovery is a dream

[Dancer]

OH HOWDY DO, WE DID this once before didn't we...

I am not gonna say I told you anyone so:


debate on proviron for pct

[ganu]

HEY DANCER THANKS FOR SUCH A DETAILED REPLY..HAVE SOME QUESTIONS THOUGH..IN RED

This is interesting..cycle tbol/var and bioidentical test cream

My test first week of the cycle was at 219.7 range 166-877
4th week it was at 536 ,6th week it dropped to 434 when i discontinued tbol and stayed with var for the last 2 weeks..

While on cycle you are using the cream, the amount of free test increases..ACCEPTED

My estr was at 16 then 25 and last week at 39..after 2 weeks of pct and no libido i went for a blood test and found that the estr was low at 10..and test at 241..so i understood that it was the estrogen that caused the libido death..

Not exactly, although low estrogen does cause labido to die so does high estrogen <<< thats a side note... your 241 is shit you way below the scale if the range is up to 841, you have little to no free countable test..AT 219.7 TOTAL TEST AND 16 ESTROGEN I HAD GOOD LIBIDO..NOW AT 241 TOTAL TEST AND 10 ESTR I HAVE LIBIDO DYING..SO YOU SEE TEST IS ABOVE MY SHITTY BASE LINE AND MY ESTR IS DOWN 6 POINTS WHICH IS ACTUALLY CAUSING THE LIBIDO TO CRASH

So either the serms nolva20/clomid50 or proviron @25 caused this estrogen to go low..but then proviron reduces shbg and for me it went from 8.53 (4th week) to 24.7 (2weeks after pct) range 13-71..so exactly whats the scenario here..if proviron is not working then nolva or clomid is killing the libido..but they dont reduce estrogen just block it at the hypothalamus and the pituitary..so whats reducing the estr..


Did you take proviron PCT and think your shit was gonna drop? I did that... proviron does not cause your HPTA to recover. Here on the boards there have been pissing matches about how proviron does not hinder HPTA, I said it before and say it again IT DOES HINDER HPTA... And everyone always says of proviron blah this and blah that..YOU ADVISED TAKING 10MG DBOL UPON WAKING..AND HAD SO MANY PEOPLE DIFFER FROM YOUR THOUGHT..WITH PROVIRON I HAVE READ TESTIMONIES OF PEOPLE LIKE SWIFTO AND OTHERS THAT IT DOES WORK FREEING UP FREE TEST BY CONTROLLING SHBG AND REDUCING THE HIGH ESTR WHICH IN TURN RAISES LIBIDO..IT DID NOT RAISE MY LIBIDO BECAUSE IT WENT BELOW RANGE BUT IT DID CURTAIL MY ESTR..SO FOR RECORD PROVIRON DOES WORK BUT DID WORK FOR ME AS EFFICIENTLY FOR MY TBOL VAR CYCLE..MAYBE FOR A TEST CYCLE IT WILL REDUCED MY ELEVATED ESTR AND RAISE MY LIBIDO

My free test went from 18.51(4th week) range4.25-30.37 to whopping 48.86 in the 8th week..but total test fell down from 536 (4th week) to 434 (8th week)..tbol was removed from the equation on the 6th week so it could cause a fall in total test,but can someone explain this reduction in total test and raise in free test to such very good range..

100 point fluctuation is not that dramatic, a guy on 2-3g of test has free test levels in the 4000+ range... fluctuation of 100 is easily explained by the back of the cream ledger, you have to apply it evenly and blah blah blah or obsorbtion is not blah blah blah..ITS NOT THE 100 POINT DEFICIT IN TOTAL TEST BUT SIMULTNOEUS 275% JUMP IN FREE TEST WHICH IS MY QUESTION

[ganu]

oh howdy do, we did this once before didn't we...

I am not gonna say i told you anyone so:


debate on proviron for pct

had 70%people saying do proviron and 30% saying dont do it..but only one person saying do 10mg dbol upon waking up and that was you..it is unique and a bold suggestion..but since it did not shift the scale in ur favour i did not try it..maybe sometime when i wanna risk more will try it..thanks for remembering though

[Dancer]

HEY DANCER THANKS FOR SUCH A DETAILED REPLY..HAVE SOME QUESTIONS THOUGH..IN RED

This is interesting..cycle tbol/var and bioidentical test cream

My test first week of the cycle was at 219.7 range 166-877
4th week it was at 536 ,6th week it dropped to 434 when i discontinued tbol and stayed with var for the last 2 weeks..

While on cycle you are using the cream, the amount of free test increases..ACCEPTED We'll build on that down there

My estr was at 16 then 25 and last week at 39..after 2 weeks of pct and no libido i went for a blood test and found that the estr was low at 10..and test at 241..so i understood that it was the estrogen that caused the libido death..

Not exactly, although low estrogen does cause labido to die so does high estrogen <<< thats a side note... your 241 is shit you way below the scale if the range is up to 841, you have little to no free countable test..AT 219.7 TOTAL TEST AND 16 ESTROGEN I HAD GOOD LIBIDO..NOW AT 241 TOTAL TEST AND 10 ESTR I HAVE LIBIDO DYING..SO YOU SEE TEST IS ABOVE MY SHITTY BASE LINE AND MY ESTR IS DOWN 6 POINTS WHICH IS ACTUALLY CAUSING THE LIBIDO TO CRASH Let go back at the time you had a 219.7 you were on your first week of tbol/var and bioidentical test cream so you have to into account although all those androgens may not be registering on the initial blood test (which jumps 100-200% a few weeks down the road) the tbol and var effect you.... although it is very much possible that low estrogen levels do/have a role, however IMHO your estrogen level does not seam that low to me

So either the serms nolva20/clomid50 or proviron @25 caused this estrogen to go low..but then proviron reduces shbg and for me it went from 8.53 (4th week) to 24.7 (2weeks after pct) range 13-71..so exactly whats the scenario here..if proviron is not working then nolva or clomid is killing the libido..but they dont reduce estrogen just block it at the hypothalamus and the pituitary..so whats reducing the estr..


Did you take proviron PCT and think your shit was gonna drop? I did that... proviron does not cause your HPTA to recover. Here on the boards there have been pissing matches about how proviron does not hinder HPTA, I said it before and say it again IT DOES HINDER HPTA... And everyone always says of proviron blah this and blah that..YOU ADVISED TAKING 10MG DBOL UPON WAKING..AND HAD SO MANY PEOPLE DIFFER FROM YOUR THOUGHT..WITH PROVIRON I HAVE READ TESTIMONIES OF PEOPLE LIKE SWIFTO AND OTHERS THAT IT DOES WORK FREEING UP FREE TEST BY CONTROLLING SHBG AND REDUCING THE HIGH ESTR WHICH IN TURN RAISES LIBIDO..IT DID NOT RAISE MY LIBIDO BECAUSE IT WENT BELOW RANGE BUT IT DID CURTAIL MY ESTR..SO FOR RECORD PROVIRON DOES WORK BUT DID WORK FOR ME AS EFFICIENTLY FOR MY TBOL VAR CYCLE..MAYBE FOR A TEST CYCLE IT WILL REDUCED MY ELEVATED ESTR AND RAISE MY LIBIDO the purpose of the dbol was in a minor effect the labido, 10mg will help labido, however coming off cycle your labido will drop for a number of weeks. You have to keep your eye on the big pic with is a month or two down the road, will your HPTA slowly recover, you can answer that in a blood test You are the third person I seen in proviron blood tests that sited this issue, if proviron worked we wouldnt have this thread... I respect many here but I IMHO disagree

My free test went from 18.51(4th week) range4.25-30.37 to whopping 48.86 in the 8th week..but total test fell down from 536 (4th week) to 434 (8th week)..tbol was removed from the equation on the 6th week so it could cause a fall in total test,but can someone explain this reduction in total test and raise in free test to such very good range..

100 point fluctuation is not that dramatic, a guy on 2-3g of test has free test levels in the 4000+ range... fluctuation of 100 is easily explained by the back of the cream ledger, you have to apply it evenly and blah blah blah or obsorbtion is not blah blah blah..ITS NOT THE 100 POINT DEFICIT IN TOTAL TEST BUT SIMULTNOEUS 275% JUMP IN FREE TEST WHICH IS MY QUESTION

I under the 100 decrease but in relation to the total free test levels which are on a scale generally from 240-840 its a minor number... The percentage should be calculated in the context... 100 points is 12% of 840

My bad on the first addition I don't think var/tbol show up on your free test levels, could be wrong with the tbol I havent read up on it.

[Dancer]

had 70%people saying do proviron and 30% saying dont do it..but only one person saying do 10mg dbol upon waking up and that was you..it is unique and a bold suggestion..but since it did not shift the scale in ur favour i did not try it..maybe sometime when i wanna risk more will try it..thanks for remembering though

We are all unique in our own ways. There are guys out here that do simple BS cycles and gain like weeds...

What works for one may/not for for another.

[ganu]

We are all unique in our own ways. There are guys out here that do simple BS cycles and gain like weeds...

What works for one may/not for for another.

rightly said and thanks for the input..