Why shouldn't you run hcg through the whole cycle and pct?

**sfour_tay** · 08-13-2009, 04:03 PM

Why would it be a bad idea to run hcg through the whole cycle then go up in dose the week or two weeks after your last dose and then just taper down through your pct?

**peachfuzz** · 08-13-2009, 05:22 PM

HCG in post cycle is counter productive as HCG itself can be suppressive. Also too much HCG or too long of use can damage the testes

**sfour_tay** · 08-13-2009, 06:15 PM

Should I run it the two weeks up untill pct ?
I have ran it for about 8 weeks of the cycle and I just did my last pin. I was going to up it to 1000 ius a week for the two weeks post pct then pct with just nolva and clomid. Bad idea ?

**spooledup** · 08-13-2009, 06:41 PM

HCG stimulates the leydig cells to produce test, so I don't see how it's suppressive, unless you're talking about LH and FSH? But doesn't nolva stimulate LH and FSH production?

I don't like using it during cycle. I don't want to become desensitized to it.

Last cycle I had great results like this:

Test E/EQ week 1-12
HCG 500iu x 4 week 13
HCG 500iu x 2 week 14
HCG 500iu x 2 week and 20mg nolva ED week 15-16
20mg nolva ED week 16-18

Worked great!

**peachfuzz** · 08-13-2009, 10:23 PM

Originally Posted by spooledup

HCG stimulates the leydig cells to produce test, so I don't see how it's suppressive, unless you're talking about LH and FSH? But doesn't nolva stimulate LH and FSH production?

I don't like using it during cycle. I don't want to become desensitized to it.

Last cycle I had great results like this:

Test E/EQ week 1-12
HCG 500iu x 4 week 13
HCG 500iu x 2 week 14
HCG 500iu x 2 week and 20mg nolva ED week 15-16
20mg nolva ED week 16-18

Worked great!

HCG stimulates testosterone and estrogen production which in turn is suppressive to LH/FSH.

supplementing HCG may also be suppressive to your own LH production. Thus being suppressive at the hypothalamus/pituitary

You are correct about the action of Nolva/Clomid but IMO it would make more sense to run HCG while the esters are clearing or the last two or so weeks of the cycle. The idea is to prime the leydig cells to become responsive to LH. (your own LH)

after a cycle LH/FSH is restored in the body rather quickly, it is testosterone production that lags. using HCG prior to post cycle will minimize this lag time.

**jackman22** · 08-14-2009, 12:03 AM

Originally Posted by CRAMER

Should I run it the two weeks up untill pct ?
I have ran it for about 8 weeks of the cycle and I just did my last pin. I was going to up it to 1000 ius a week for the two weeks post pct then pct with just nolva and clomid. Bad idea ?

Im a bit confused are you asking if you should do it after you already did it?

**sfour_tay** · 08-14-2009, 05:11 AM

Asking if you can do it all the say through the cycle and the first week of pct

**spooledup** · 08-14-2009, 08:52 AM

Originally Posted by peachfuzz

You are correct about the action of Nolva/Clomid but IMO it would make more sense to run HCG while the esters are clearing or the last two or so weeks of the cycle.

Yes, this is the idea behind what I do and it works great. While the esters are clearing I bring up my own endogenous test as quickly as possible to maintain my gains. Then the nolva will deal with the estrogen HCG produces. You just want to run the SERM longer than the HCG to ensure LH and FSH levels are brought back up to normal levels, and to deal with the estrogen.

**spooledup** · 08-14-2009, 08:59 AM

Originally Posted by CRAMER

Asking if you can do it all the say through the cycle and the first week of pct

Why would you want HCG through the entire cycle.? You typically only experience testicular atrophy after a few weeks of using a long ester. The exogenous hormones you're using are suppressing your HPTA (natural test), so it seems like the HCG is fighting a losing battle. Also, the more you use it the more likely you'll become desensitized to it.

Also, recall that a bi product of HCG is estrogen, so if you're using a hormone that aromatizes, you're going to have more estrogen issues to deal with (AI use would be a must probably).

**sfour_tay** · 08-14-2009, 10:51 AM

I started running the hcg with 8 weeks left of the cycle at 500 ius a week along
with a low dose of areomasin Ed. Now I'm wondering if I can run it like spooled said ? I will be running
clomid 100/100/50/50/25 along withthe typical noLva pct just drawn put
one more week
bad idea

**sfour_tay** · 08-14-2009, 11:20 AM

Ps I just did my last shot of test e yesterday along with a 500 iu shot of hcg . Now I'm trying to decide if I should run hcg like spooled said for the two weeks up untill pct.

Sorry if this is confusing or I'm missing somthing. I'm just really worried about losing my gains like I did on my last cycle. And I pcted corectly

**TITANIUM** · 08-14-2009, 11:31 AM

Originally Posted by CRAMER

Ps I just did my last shot of test e yesterday along with a 500 iu shot of hcg . Now I'm trying to decide if I should run hcg like spooled said for the two weeks up untill pct.

Sorry if this is confusing or I'm missing somthing. I'm just really worried about losing my gains like I did on my last cycle. And I pcted corectly

Depending on the cycle, hcg can be run mid cycle.

But for short bursts.

Not continuously.

Usually 500 iu's ed, last to weeks prior of your regular pct.

What did your last pct look like?

Wondering why you lost your gains?

Diet is always key.

**roid_rage** · 08-14-2009, 02:29 PM

spooledup, your theory is the old pct theory, I've been this issue like 100 times, it works both ways, though if you use 500 ui/week, 100 ui ed, or 250 ui x2 week, what you are doing is to prevent your testex to go out during the cycle, so when you finally get to the PCT they are fully functional and respond better to the PCT, instead of trying to bring them back from 8, 12, or 16 weeks of being "dead".... That's pretty much it, and it's proven to work, though william llewellyn claims this is the only one proven to work

http://www.medibolics.com/ScallyVergelAstractHPGA.pdf

Wich is pretty much based on your theory...

**spooledup** · 08-14-2009, 04:49 PM

Well it not only works in theory but it worked well for my last cycle, and I just started the same pct protocol today.

The problem I have with the new theory is that when the esters are clearing you're still being suppressed, and HCG through this stage should be administered. And again, I don't want to deal with additional estrogen during cycle. Not that I'm sensitive to it, because I'm not, but for other obvious reasons.

Btw, your nuts don't go dead, exogenous hormones don't completely shut you down. There will always be some residual test being produced, however small it may be. IMO they just need a boost at the right time

Originally Posted by roid_rage

spooledup, your theory is the old pct theory, I've been this issue like 100 times, it works both ways, though if you use 500 ui/week, 100 ui ed, or 250 ui x2 week, what you are doing is to prevent your testex to go out during the cycle, so when you finally get to the PCT they are fully functional and respond better to the PCT, instead of trying to bring them back from 8, 12, or 16 weeks of being "dead".... That's pretty much it, and it's proven to work, though william llewellyn claims this is the only one proven to work

http://www.medibolics.com/ScallyVergelAstractHPGA.pdf

Wich is pretty much based on your theory...

**sfour_tay** · 08-15-2009, 06:50 AM

I have 2000ius and was planning on running it for the two weeks after my last shot at 1000ius a week. I'm debating on running it during the first week of pct

**Swifto** · 08-15-2009, 06:55 AM

HCG should be used during your cycle. Not during PCT.

125-250ius 2-3 times weekly will maintain testicular function and prevent testicular dysfunction from disuse.

**sfour_tay** · 08-15-2009, 07:33 AM

Ok so I'm just going to run it the two weeks before pct

**roid_rage** · 08-15-2009, 08:40 AM

Originally Posted by spooledup

Well it not only works in theory but it worked well for my last cycle, and I just started the same pct protocol today.

The problem I have with the new theory is that when the esters are clearing you're still being suppressed, and HCG through this stage should be administered. And again, I don't want to deal with additional estrogen during cycle. Not that I'm sensitive to it, because I'm not, but for other obvious reasons.

Btw, your nuts don't go dead, exogenous hormones don't completely shut you down. There will always be some residual test being produced, however small it may be. IMO they just need a boost at the right time

I know it does, I use it the same way as you do, I works fine for me... and the 100 mg. of deca will totally shut you down man. And using during HCG cycle is not about being supress or not, you are going to be supressed if you are using roids, the thing is to keep your testex functional, nothing more. And when the esters are cleaning up, you wont be using HCG no more, so the HCG that you used during the cycle wont affect you recovery at all... And if you are so worry about strogens, take some AI and you will be fine...not to mention 500 ui week wont do much, is not like we are talking about 2500 ui per week...

**jasperhup** · 08-15-2009, 09:00 AM

Originally Posted by Swifto

HCG should be used during your cycle. Not during PCT.

125-250ius 2-3 times weekly will maintain testicular function and prevent testicular dysfunction from disuse.

is that the entire cycle, or just a few weeks at the end before pct?

**sfour_tay** · 08-15-2009, 10:01 AM

Ok so will 1000 ius a week for two weeks be enough to get me back up to speed. Or should I bump it up to 2000 ius a week.

**Swifto** · 08-15-2009, 10:57 AM

Originally Posted by jasperhup

is that the entire cycle, or just a few weeks at the end before pct?

Throughout.

**roserose** · 08-15-2009, 11:11 AM

I've read your supposed to cycle the hcg 2-4 weeks on 2-4 weeks off during cycle.

**Swifto** · 08-15-2009, 11:27 AM

If used correctly, leydig cell desensitisation shouldnt be a problem.

In larger doses it can cause desensitisation.

Tamoxifen has been shown to help prevent desensitisation also. But it really shouldnt be a problem is conservative doses are used.