Refer from: Low dose post from Elite (The way pros used to cycle)...just commenting t

[mmaximus25]

I guess this thread is dead... Elite is pretty good with knowledgeable members, no offense to AR,

Yes from my experience low dose yearlong staggers work best over short bulk and cutting. The way the old guys did it is the best way to keep a great looking physic. But they also ate real food more that shakes and weren’t into process food.
Their calorie intake was nowhere near the today bodybuilders are.
But yes… I do concur with the advantages of low dose long cycles….
I've been on for 2-1/2 straight. This is my fifth year on in total.
Whether you’re a model or a stage poser this is the way a pro of either will dose. Of coarse monthly or every other month check up on your blood test is recommended. Make sure after every androgen you dose with HCG and when using a higher androgen weaker anabolic dosing with Nolvadex is good. Be careful not to take the nolva with a weak androgen, you will counter the anabolic effect. Most of us just get our mammary glands removed and use nolva more as a booster. There are a lot of things to consider when you decide how you’re going to look. What you’re going to take, how you’re going to eat, and what friends you need to drop.
More time than none it a physic issue, just want to look better, well you don’t need a lot of juice for that, so I guess it depends on what your going for... They are so many posts with questions and not enough goal setting... There is a difference is doses when your looking for a certain goal.

Mega doses are for strong competitors and body builders. Most power lifters I know only take short acting roids. Most models I know stagger and might take a month off after a weaker androgen like deca .

I only know of elite bodybuilders to have a regimen of gear year long but gear is not merely AS oriented… most have a mixture of thermognic and diuretic detail along with killers and sleeper, and use two-three-or four type staggers... this means two androgens for so many weeks then switch to another two... usually after the bottle is gone... most premix once your experience level rises into a four type stagger... These guys are not dummies!!! I have friends that I still think should and could have gotten a PhD… The Medical world is behind when it comes to the human body… And for general statement sake for you guys experimenting out there, you are on the front line…. But for safety purposes a "newbie" as said should take low doses and gage your growth. I myself take low doses and I stay about ten 1b from a competition style body. Currently I've dropped from 250 down to a very hard 220 and building solid. My goal will be to hit 230 at a 9% BF and maintain that mass until I'm comfortable with my muscle maturity. Getting big isn't hard but being hard is a different story, how many times do you see puff balls at 250, right... not that many hard as fuck 250's walking around.
---Most newbies cant get a diet to save their lives and don’t grow so they try an amp up on more gear. WRONG. Then the second mistake Newbies make is eating so much and not training hard enough. So they look flabby.


So to the newbie's if that’s what you want to be called, take your time and grow quality. You don’t have a good enough concept of diet to be taking large and mega doses of juice... experiment with your self read and find out how these hormones bind to your cells. And go slow...

I'm not advocating this just being honest... I noticed there are not a lot of experienced posts being made here enough. I think there should be some hammer dropping truth from the guinea pigs out there. I don’t mean telling all of the horror stories or secrets... just give these guys some advice with statements... No one knows whom you are and few will be able to tell who you are... so drop the hammer...lol
Never mind... just trying to be noble I guess...

[djdjdjddjon]

i kinda thought this was a great post and agreed with it when i had first read it, but being the crtical thinker that I am, i decided against it, its been shown for years and years now that mega doses produce mega results[not to mention bigger sides, but thats not what were discussing] if diet/training/nutrition are all in check, its a pretty codependant equation, the bigger the doses the bigger the gains, so, imo, i am opposed to lower doses...

[mmaximus25]

I agree with your post with the big results part. I'm on both sides of the fence. If you got the mind, got the gear, got the diet you just need to pick your peak... In other posts I talked about my mega doses. But my goal was going from modeling to competion physic, but I could cut the mustard. I was steady in diet and gear, very few sides considering I averaged 1000- 2000 mgs a week. I staggered my AS the whole year( my use list was pretty domestic not too many exotics) and got off track with the nubain... Then the money became an issue....
I think in consideration the block for some guys is the $. But needless to say this year is done and it was my come back and I did it on lower d"O"'s... a lot lower! My average doses peaked at 500mgs... But I'm hard and lean and full, my only shit fit is my sweep is not protuding enough and with the growth of my theigh's I need to bring the calves up some more... But enough bitch talk...
good review I welcome your crit... Later on...

[D_BEAR]

great post this is what i have been trying to say
any way the low doses work great for me and that is all that counts

[mmaximus25]

Hey... D_BEAR,
check out the "come on boy's lets figure some shit out" post... I'm trying to bring some good old fashion AS school of hard knox back...

[BASK8KACE]

Well I tell you this was a nice Christmas present (eventhough it wasn't written just for me)--It's nice to see other people talking about thier good experiences with low doses.

I think people thought I had lost my mind when I first started talking about low-dose cycles.

The main thing I wanted people to realize is that low doses do work. Too often people were saying (again and again) that low doses of testosterone only shut down your natural testosterone and do not help build muscle--which is incorrect. Low doses can build good solid muscle quickly--depending on several factors including (but not limited to) diet, workout, rest, cycle experience. In numerous other posts I've already written out complete supporting detail. Please read those other posts if you want more detail.

DJ,

Larger doses do work faster than low doses in SOME situations (I've never disagreed with this); however, the jury is still out, for example, on whether 800 mg per week of Equipoise is any better than 400 mg per week). Anyway, my arguments on low doses have always centered around testosterone.

Again, my main points in the low-dose argument are (briefly):
1. Low doses do work well (read my other posts for a clarification of this).
2. Newbies should be given all the facts (including facts on low-doses). They should not be told perfunctorily that high doses are the only way to do AS. Newbies should not be encouraged (on initial cycles) to up the dose to 600mg per week or 800mg per week. Encouraging a newbie to take high doses of steroids on a first or second cycle is like handing a powerful gun to a child that's just learning to shoot (I thought the Texans in the crowd would enjoy that analogy).

I don't advocate children shooting guns at all, but we all know that it happens in some places in the universe *cough* TEXAS *cough*

[D_BEAR]

also i dont crash near as hard and i still work out when im off the roids
when i did high doses iwas like this is great i will always do this till i came off them and wanted to cry as the more i worked out and harder i trained to watch all my gains go BYE BYE
and i tried hard to keep them i would eat till i threw up trying to keep them but they just left
but the low dose gains i have always kept at least 80% of the muscle i gained and that is even a year and a half later

[D_BEAR]

bump

[Big_BoneZ]

First of all, we have to agree that our goal is to GET HUGE. no matter how we do it, natural or AS. WE are all here for AS and most of us are AS users.

when you use AS, we argue on whether we should use low doses for longer period of time of higher doses for shorter cycles. We all know both work, and have their own side effects, and benefits. with Lower doses, at the end of 16 or so weeks, we might make less gains, but the gains are there to stay, and it takes less effort for our test to get back to normal. Higher doeses blow us up in 8 weeks, and we only retain part of those gains, and much more depression to follow, and hard and longer time required to restore test levels.


We should learn from others experience and see if we can benefit from them rather than bashing them on this board. they are our broz too, we are all in the game. Help one another rather and wasting time on insulting others.