HCG - How important is it?

[slimshady01]

Thanks for the reply. I got 10k ui so I think I'm
Good to start now.

[Yellow]

Hi Swifto,

High dosages of androgens can cause the body to stop or reduce a process called spermatogenesis.
BTW if we are using HCG while on cycle, do we still produce sperm? or Is the spermatogenesis process stopped or reduced while on cycle regardless using HCG or not?

Thanks, swifto...

I recover far quicker post cycle when using HCG at some point. Its a real rough ride without it.

If you have enough, start week 1. If not start week 2-3.

Hi Swifto,

So do I.
I felt no crash when post-cycle despite of having done 8 months cycle. I do know I recover far quicker post cycle when using HCG during cycle.
When I didn't use HCG on cycle, even doing 10weeks cycle I felt crappy post-cycle.

The point is about spermatogenesis.
If we use HCG while on cycle, are we still producing sperm?
Is the spermatogenesis process stopped or reduced while on cycle even using HCG?
*Judging by theory that only FSH trigger sperm production.

Many thanks, swifto...

[Swifto]

Hi Swifto,

So do I.
I felt no crash when post-cycle despite of having done 8 months cycle. I do know I recover far quicker post cycle when using HCG during cycle.
When I didn't use HCG on cycle, even doing 10weeks cycle I felt crappy post-cycle.

The point is about spermatogenesis.
If we use HCG while on cycle, are we still producing sperm?
Is the spermatogenesis process stopped or reduced while on cycle even using HCG?
*Judging by theory that only FSH trigger sperm production.

Many thanks, swifto...

Spermatogenesis will be improved on cycle when using HCG. HCG can increase spermatogenesis because it mimics LH, which is party responsible for it. However, FSH primary use is for spermatogenesis so something like HMG will aid in anything to do with sperm count, motility, mobility, etc...

In men given Test Enan 200mg/wk + HCG (5000ius 3x week), in this study, after 3 months some of the subjects sperm count returned, "...toward normal (46±16 million/ml, P < 0.001 compared with T alone). In two subjects, sperm counts during hCG plus T returned into the individual's control range. Sperm motility and morphology were consistently normal in all men during hCG plus T".

So although FSH is responsible for much of testicular function, its not all of it.

To answer your question(s).

Yes, sperm count was returned to "normal ranges" in some of the subjects in that study. So I'd be inclined to postulate that including HCG will certainly increase sperm count when on cycle.

No, spermatogenesis is not stopped on cycle when using AAS + HCG, but may well be not using HCG. Infact, it usually is stopped. That above study also indicates that using TE at 200mg/wk for 3 months, reduced sperm count and fucntion so much, they were clasified as "azoospermia or severe oligospermia".

Your welcome...

[Yellow]

Spermatogenesis will be improved on cycle when using HCG . HCG can increase spermatogenesis because it mimics LH, which is party responsible for it. However, FSH primary use is for spermatogenesis so something like HMG will aid in anything to do with sperm count, motility, mobility, etc...

In men given Test Enan 200mg/wk + HCG (5000ius 3x week), in this study, after 3 months some of the subjects sperm count returned, "...toward normal (46±16 million/ml, P < 0.001 compared with T alone). In two subjects, sperm counts during hCG plus T returned into the individual's control range. Sperm motility and morphology were consistently normal in all men during hCG plus T".

So although FSH is responsible for much of testicular function, its not all of it.

To answer your question(s).

Yes, sperm count was returned to "normal ranges" in some of the subjects in that study. So I'd be inclined to postulate that including HCG will certainly increase sperm count when on cycle.

No, spermatogenesis is not stopped on cycle when using AAS + HCG, but may well be not using HCG. Infact, it usually is stopped. That above study also indicates that using TE at 200mg/wk for 3 months, reduced sperm count and fucntion so much, they were clasified as "azoospermia or severe oligospermia".

Your welcome...

Thanks for the nice answers & explanations, swifto...
I greatly appreciate it...

BTW in the study you showed to me, men are given HCG 5000IU 3x per week with Test Enanthate 200mg per week (which is high dose of HCG).
Usually I use only small dose of HCG (250IU-300IU 2x per week) during steroid cycle. What about it?
Is that dose enough to maintain sperm production during cycle?

Many Thanks for your time, swifto...

[BJJ]

Hey Swifto, do you think HCG should/could be run also during a bridge time?

Like for example:

BULK 1
8 weeks test p 700 mg ew (100 mg ed)
8 weeks hcg 500 iu ew (250 iu e3.5d)
8 weeks exemestane 25 mg ew (12.5 mg e3.5d)

BRIDGE
4 weeks test c 300 mg ew
4 weeks rhgh 28 iu ew (4 iu ed)
4 weeks t4 700 mcg ew (100 mcg ed)
HCG?

BULK 2
6 weeks test p 1050 mg ew (150 mg ed)
6 weeks hcg 500 iu ew (250 iu e3.5d)
6 weeks exemestane 25 mg ew (12.5 mg e3.5d)

Thank you

[pwnflow]

Hey swifto what's your opinion on HMG compared to HCG ?

[Swifto]

Thanks for the nice answers & explanations, swifto...
I greatly appreciate it...

BTW in the study you showed to me, men are given HCG 5000IU 3x per week with Test Enanthate 200mg per week (which is high dose of HCG).
Usually I use only small dose of HCG (250IU-300IU 2x per week) during steroid cycle. What about it?
Is that dose enough to maintain sperm production during cycle?

I wouldnt worry about that. HCG dosed far lower has been shown to maintain testicular function without the possible occurrence of leydig cell desensitisation.

Many Thanks for your time, swifto...

Hey Swifto, do you think HCG should/could be run also during a bridge time?

Like for example:

BULK 1
8 weeks test p 700 mg ew (100 mg ed)
8 weeks hcg 500 iu ew (250 iu e3.5d)
8 weeks exemestane 25 mg ew (12.5 mg e3.5d)

BRIDGE
4 weeks test c 300 mg ew
4 weeks rhgh 28 iu ew (4 iu ed)
4 weeks t4 700 mcg ew (100 mcg ed)
HCG?

BULK 2
6 weeks test p 1050 mg ew (150 mg ed)
6 weeks hcg 500 iu ew (250 iu e3.5d)
6 weeks exemestane 25 mg ew (12.5 mg e3.5d)

Thank you

I think thats a decent idea as E2 and progesterone can build over time with HCG's use. Coming back to using it during your "bulk 2" after 4 weeks of cessation you may need a slightly larger initial dose.

I'd go with 1500ius/wk for the first week, then back down to what you were using before.

Hey swifto what's your opinion on HMG compared to HCG?

Thats a good question and I dont know an awful low about it.

From my knowledge it just mimcs FSH, not LH, which is primarily used for testosterone production/synthesis.

HMG would be better used at increasing spermatagenesis.

[BJJ]

I will follow your advice, grazie.

[BikesNGuns]

Hey Swifto this may have been asked somewhere else in this lengthy post so I apologize if it has. Here is my question I am on week 8 of my first ...I started with Dbol at 40mg daily for the first four weeks while also running Test Enth at 500mg and will be stopping the Enth at week 12. I had planned on PCT with Aromasin , Nolvadex , and HCG (a post I had found by Pinnacle).

Wk Nolva HCG Aroma Vit. E
1 20mgs/day 500iu/day 20-25mgs/day 1000iu/day
2 20mgs/day 500iu/day 20-25mgs/day 1000iu/day
3 20mgs/day 500iu/day 20-25mgs/day 1000iu/day
4 20mgs/day 20-25mgs/day
5 20mgs/day 20-25mgs/day
6 20mgs/day

If I should run HCG during cycle as you suggest how should I run it? I have 15,000iu available and can't get any more. Also a question related to that is the gear I have is powdered form in very smalls vials 5000iu each. How is this mixed with bacteriostatic water?...and secondly is this also intramuscular using the same pins for my enth?...Lastly, will Nolvadex, and Aromasin be okay together for PCT? I have 50ml at 20mg/ml of Nolva and 60ml at 25mg/ml of Aromasin. Sorry for being long winded I just feel after reading this thread that I need to change up my thoughts on H.C.G. and what I had planned on for my P.C.T. which sucks because I got the gear to run exactly what Pinnacle had described in his sticky post. Thanks for your help.

[layeazy]

Hey swifto great thread

if u were to run a cycle of 12 weeks
dianabol 20mg a day - 4 weeks
deca 400mg 10 weeks
Test E 600mg 12 weeks

When would u start the HCG process and what would be an accurate amount to use and ED or EOD?

[mg0922]

Not sure if I missed a post. I've read this whole thread and I have to say wow. Thank you so much for taking your time to present such an important aspect of a cycle. I have learned so much just reading all the questions and looking at your answers. I am now pretty educated when it comes time to use hcg . Thx again

One question I do have if it wasn't already asked is...what exactly is that water called you mix it with and where can I find That? Also what are the proper mixing amounts water>hcg.. equal amounts?

Thx

[mg0922]

Also if i do a 10 Wk cycle how much of hcg should I get?

Thx

[MAC MAN]

Swifto- why are you pushing for 6 weeks is SERMs and not the 4 that many are used to? If using Nolva is 40/40/20/20 not good or has it to do with length of cycle?

[Yellow]

BTW in the study you showed to me, men are given HCG 5000 IU 3x per week with Test Enanthate 200mg per week (5000IU 3x per weeks is a such high dose of HCG).
Usually I only use small dose of HCG (250 IU-300 IU 2x per week) during steroid cycle. What about it?
Is that dose enough to maintain sperm production during cycle?

Many Thanks for your time, swifto...

[Swifto]

Hey Swifto this may have been asked somewhere else in this lengthy post so I apologize if it has. Here is my question I am on week 8 of my first ...I started with Dbol at 40mg daily for the first four weeks while also running Test Enth at 500mg and will be stopping the Enth at week 12. I had planned on PCT with Aromasin , Nolvadex , and HCG (a post I had found by Pinnacle).

Wk Nolva HCG Aroma Vit. E
1 20mgs/day 500iu/day 20-25mgs/day 1000iu/day
2 20mgs/day 500iu/day 20-25mgs/day 1000iu/day
3 20mgs/day 500iu/day 20-25mgs/day 1000iu/day
4 20mgs/day 20-25mgs/day
5 20mgs/day 20-25mgs/day
6 20mgs/day

If I should run HCG during cycle as you suggest how should I run it? Start asap and for the first week use 500ius 4x in the week. Then down to 250ius 2x week. I have 15,000iu available and can't get any more. Also a question related to that is the gear I have is powdered form in very smalls vials 5000iu each. How is this mixed with bacteriostatic water?...and secondly is this also intramuscular using the same pins for my enth? Read post 1 again, at the end. IM is fine, or Sub-Q...Lastly, will Nolvadex, and Aromasin be okay together for PCT? I have 50ml at 20mg/ml of Nolva and 60ml at 25mg/ml of Aromasin. Sorry for being long winded I just feel after reading this thread that I need to change up my thoughts on H.C.G. and what I had planned on for my P.C.T. which sucks because I got the gear to run exactly what Pinnacle had described in his sticky post. Thanks for your help.

Bolds.

Tamox should suffice for PCT. Tamox 20mg/ED for 6 weeks, 40mg/ED first 7 days.

Aromasin 10mg/EOD on cycle, not PCT.

Hey swifto great thread

if u were to run a cycle of 12 weeks
dianabol 20mg a day - 4 weeks
deca 400mg 10 weeks
Test E 600mg 12 weeks

When would u start the HCG process and what would be an accurate amount to use and ED or EOD?

Week 1. 250ius 2x week, or 3x week, depending on age. If over 30 3x, or struggle to get back post cycle.

Not sure if I missed a post. I've read this whole thread and I have to say wow. Thank you so much for taking your time to present such an important aspect of a cycle. I have learned so much just reading all the questions and looking at your answers. I am now pretty educated when it comes time to use hcg. Thx again

One question I do have if it wasn't already asked is...what exactly is that water called you mix it with and where can I find That? Also what are the proper mixing amounts water>hcg.. equal amounts?

Bac water.


Thx

Also if i do a 10 Wk cycle how much of hcg should I get?

Thx

5,000-10,000ius.

Swifto- why are you pushing for 6 weeks is SERMs and not the 4 that many are used to? If using Nolva is 40/40/20/20 not good or has it to do with length of cycle?

Because the latest research tested SERMs on hypogondal males over 6 weeks.

BTW in the study you showed to me, men are given HCG 5000 IU 3x per week with Test Enanthate 200mg per week (5000IU 3x per weeks is a such high dose of HCG).
Usually I only use small dose of HCG (250 IU-300 IU 2x per week) during steroid cycle. What about it?
Is that dose enough to maintain sperm production during cycle?

Many Thanks for your time, swifto...

As I said before, yes IMHO.

[TwoGuns]

Long story short. Im in week 15 of my cycle. 525mg/week of test prop. Want to start coming off but was confused as how to best use the hcg i have. Form what i understand start with 500ius 4x per week for first week then 250ius 2x per week? but for how long and should i keep using the hcg and how long shoudl i keep running test?

[Yellow]

Bolds.

Tamox should suffice for PCT. Tamox 20mg/ED for 6 weeks, 40mg/ED first 7 days.

Aromasin 10mg/EOD on cycle, not PCT.



Week 1. 250ius 2x week, or 3x week, depending on age. If over 30 3x, or struggle to get back post cycle.





5,000-10,000ius.



Because the latest research tested SERMs on hypogondal males over 6 weeks.



As I said before, yes IMHO.

Many thanks for clearing that up, swifto...

[layeazy]

thanks swifto for the fast response mate i will follow it to a tee and see how my recovery is

[BikesNGuns]

Thanks for the info Swifto, its appreciated.

[progressive1]

Thanks for the post swifto. Should hcg be run with an anavar -only cycle? If so, what dosing and how long?

[TwoGuns]

Bump

im in week 15 of my cycle. 525mg/week of test prop. Want to start coming off but was confused as how to best use the hcg i have. Form what i understand start with 500ius 4x per week for first week then 250ius 2x per week? But for how long and should i keep using the hcg and how long shoudl i keep running test?

[PK-V]

I'm currently in the middle of week 7 of 500mg/wk of testosterone

I have a load of hCG on hand but I haven't reconstructed any of it yet, I don't feel like my balls have shrunken much if any, should I start using hCG anyway? I plan on running my cycle up until week 14-15.

A local user told me that you don't always get testicular atrophy on cycle?

And to know if you need any hCG check your ejaculation, if it's runny like water you need some LH stimulation and if it's not your ok?

sorry for the details

any truth to these?

[PK-V]

woof

[Swifto]

Sorry I have been a little late replying...

Long story short. Im in week 15 of my cycle. 525mg/week of test prop. Want to start coming off but was confused as how to best use the hcg i have. Form what i understand start with 500ius 4x per week for first week then 250ius 2x per week? but for how long and should i keep using the hcg and how long shoudl i keep running test?

The protocol you outlined is fine, perhaps 1-2 1000ius shots after 15 weeks.

The duration of the HCG treatment will then be determined by your cycle length? 15 weeks on is a far whack. When do you plan on doing PCT?

Many thanks for clearing that up, swifto...

No problem.

thanks swifto for the fast response mate i will follow it to a tee and see how my recovery is

Keep me updated.

My pleasure.

Thanks for the info Swifto, its appreciated.

No problem.

Thanks for the post swifto. Should hcg be run with an anavar-only cycle? If so, what dosing and how long?

Not need 99% of the time.

I'm currently in the middle of week 7 of 500mg/wk of testosterone

I have a load of hCG on hand but I haven't reconstructed any of it yet, I don't feel like my balls have shrunken much if any, should I start using hCG anyway? I plan on running my cycle up until week 14-15.

A local user told me that you don't always get testicular atrophy on cycle?

And to know if you need any hCG check your ejaculation, if it's runny like water you need some LH stimulation and if it's not your ok?

sorry for the details

any truth to these?

Testicular size is not a sign of function.

Start on 500-750ius 4x in the first week, then down to 250ius 2-3x week.

Next time run it all the way through.

woof

WOOF!

[PK-V]

HA HA

woof

ktnxbi

[pstacks]

Sorry if you already answered this Swifto (or anybody else with more experience than me!!)...

I am planning on running an AI (probably arimidex ) during my entire sustanon 500mg/wk (10 weeks) and dbol 40 mg/day (4-6 weeks) as I am prone to estrogen sides. I did not plan on using HCG for the entire cycle, but after reading this I am reconsidering. My guy told me to run it for the last few weeks of cycle only and run it into the beginning week of PCT

My question is, if I do not run the HCG through the whole cycle, should I increase the dose of my AI when I start the HCG?

I know you recommend using it through the entire cycle. I've seen that some people think that running HCG for more than 2-3 weeks can inhibit natural gonadotropin production (i.e. "AR Profile :HCG"). You have not found this to be the case through your experience and others who have tried it? And Swifto, you have said (and other users) multiple times that you do not like HCG as a part of PCT...why is that?

BTW, this is my first REAL cycle. 23 years old, 195 lbs, 5'9". Been lifting for 4 years.

Thanks a TON in advance for the advice.

[Swifto]

Sorry if you already answered this Swifto (or anybody else with more experience than me!!)...

I am planning on running an AI (probably arimidex ) during my entire sustanon 500mg/wk (10 weeks) and dbol 40 mg/day (4-6 weeks) as I am prone to estrogen sides. I did not plan on using HCG for the entire cycle, but after reading this I am reconsidering. My guy told me to run it for the last few weeks of cycle only and run it into the beginning week of PCT

Go with Aromasin 10mg/ED or EOD.

You can run the HCG the final weeks, but its best used on cycle, not as a treatment towards the end of the cycle IMHO.

My question is, if I do not run the HCG through the whole cycle, should I increase the dose of my AI when I start the HCG?

Marginally, yes.

I know you recommend using it through the entire cycle. I've seen that some people think that running HCG for more than 2-3 weeks can inhibit natural gonadotropin production (i.e. "AR Profile :HCG"). You have not found this to be the case through your experience and others who have tried it? And Swifto, you have said (and other users) multiple times that you do not like HCG as a part of PCT...why is that?

Because it can inhibit endogenous ganadotropins if used off cycle when eugondal.

BTW, this is my first REAL cycle. 23 years old, 195 lbs, 5'9". Been lifting for 4 years.

Thanks a TON in advance for the advice.

bolds

[jla1986]

great read.

[pstacks]

bolds

Thanks a lot, I appreciate you taking time to help a noob out! I will run the aromasin starting day 1, and will keep letro on hand just in case. Like I said, prone to gyno...

[BJJ]

Swifto, have you ever tried HMG?

If so, on paper it is stronger than HCG .
Have you experienced that difference?

75iu 3xweek is a decent protocol in your view?

[BlInDsIdE]

bump- kick a$$ thread

[Little76]

Swifto, Have you ever had low sperm issues?

My sperm is way low, I cant remember the amount, but it was about 5% of what it should be for a 23yo.
My test is 11nmol, which is also low for my age.
NO CYCLE HISTORY
LH and FSH is in the upper half, but still "normal"

My Dr. had me on hrt for a few months, but I asked if we could try something else. He has prescribed me HCG to try and kickstart my nuts into producing more test and sperm. Im on 1500iu per week (3 shots of 500iu), for 6 weeks. We didnt talk about sides, but do you think I should get arimidex off him incase I get high estrogen?
Do you think this line of attack could help me start making a few more swimmers?

Thinks that you may need to know...
23yo
6 foot
185lbs
12%
Train to get strong for PL
looking at getting to 200-220lb at 15% this year. Just cos its PL, doesnt mean I wanna be fat lol.

My swimmers are my main concern, but if all goes well Id like to cycle later in the year.
20mg Dbol 1-4
500mg test e 1-12
500iu hcg (2x250) 1-12
tamox and clomid 14-20

Can you help a brother out? Any opinions?

[bogdan84uzy]

HCG comes in 1500ius and 5000ius amps. Usually from Pregnyl. Chinese suppliers also stock their HCG in these two denominations too.

You need to get some sterile empty 10ML glass serum vials. You can get these from AR-R .

You also need to get some bac. water. If you were to mix 5000ius with 10ML bac. water, 1ML = 500ius. If you were to mix 1500ius with 10ML bac. water, 1ML = 150ius.

Once mixed, refridgerate. I tend to use my mixed HCG within 30-45 days.

Its really that simple.

i have a question: if you use only sterile water,because bacteriostatic water is hard to find,how long after the Hcg mix can be used?i am thinking to use a 5000ui/ml dose,diluated in 10 parts-500ui/day so this means 10 days.it is ok with sterile water?i have read somewhere that with sterile water it last only 5 days.which one is true?

thanks!

[Swifto]

i have a question: if you use only sterile water,because bacteriostatic water is hard to find,how long after the Hcg mix can be used?i am thinking to use a 5000ui/ml dose,diluated in 10 parts-500ui/day so this means 10 days.it is ok with sterile water?i have read somewhere that with sterile water it last only 5 days.which one is true?

thanks!

Lasdt cycle I actually used sterile water from the needle exchange here in the UK. It was kept for about 15-20 days in the fridge and it worked fine.

How do I know that? Because HCG gives me a little acne, my testes size returned and my PCT was pretty easy once the SERMs kicked in.

[Swifto]

great read.

Thanks.

Swifto, have you ever tried HMG?

If so, on paper it is stronger than HCG .
Have you experienced that difference?

75iu 3xweek is a decent protocol in your view?

On paper? Which paper?

I havent tried it, no. But a few have.

As far as I'm aware it mimics FSH, not LH. Therefore better for spermategenisis not endogenous androgen production (testosterone ).

Swifto, Have you ever had low sperm issues?

My sperm is way low, I cant remember the amount, but it was about 5% of what it should be for a 23yo.
My test is 11nmol, which is also low for my age.
NO CYCLE HISTORY
LH and FSH is in the upper half, but still "normal"

My Dr. had me on hrt for a few months, but I asked if we could try something else. He has prescribed me HCG to try and kickstart my nuts into producing more test and sperm. Im on 1500iu per week (3 shots of 500iu), for 6 weeks. We didnt talk about sides, but do you think I should get arimidex off him incase I get high estrogen?
Do you think this line of attack could help me start making a few more swimmers?

Thinks that you may need to know...
23yo
6 foot
185lbs
12%
Train to get strong for PL
looking at getting to 200-220lb at 15% this year. Just cos its PL, doesnt mean I wanna be fat lol.

My swimmers are my main concern, but if all goes well Id like to cycle later in the year.
20mg Dbol 1-4
500mg test e 1-12
500iu hcg (2x250) 1-12
tamox and clomid 14-20

Can you help a brother out? Any opinions?

Sorry, I have been away and wasnt able to answer your question(s) sooner.

HCG is a good idea, but I'd also run a combination of Tamox and/or Clomid.

I dont like the idea of HCG or HMG alone when eugondal (not during PCT if you will). It may cause other issues, such as, inhibiting endo. LH.

wk 1-3 HCG 500ius/ED
wk 2-7 Tamox 20mg/ED
wk 2-7 Clomid 25mg/ED
wk 1-4 Aromasin 10mg/ED

Pretty light, low doses, but should really get your testes going. If you can get HMG, even better.

[chi]

swifto can yuo comment on my cycle if i need to add hcg ?

age- 32
weight- 196
BF- 14-15%
height- 5'9"
training- 14 yrs
diet- lmo's sticky bulking diet modded
# of cycles done and last time- 3 and 2008
training- 5 days in the gym no excuses

10 week cycle of ethanate
6 weeks cycle of T Bol
1 – 12 Nolvadex 10mg ED
1 – 12 L-dex .25mg ED

pct as follow two weeks after my last shot of TEST-E

Day 1 300mg Clomid / 20mg Nolva / .25mg L-dex
Day 2 - 30 100mg Clomid / 20mg Nolva / .25mg L-dex
Day 31 - 37 20mg Nolva / .25mg L-dex

[Little76]

Thanks.



On paper? Which paper?

I havent tried it, no. But a few have.

As far as I'm aware it mimics FSH, not LH. Therefore better for spermategenisis not endogenous androgen production (testosterone ).



Sorry, I have been away and wasnt able to answer your question(s) sooner.

HCG is a good idea, but I'd also run a combination of Tamox and/or Clomid.

I dont like the idea of HCG or HMG alone when eugondal (not during PCT if you will). It may cause other issues, such as, inhibiting endo. LH.

wk 1-3 HCG 500ius/ED
wk 2-7 Tamox 20mg/ED
wk 2-7 Clomid 25mg/ED
wk 1-4 Aromasin 10mg/ED

Pretty light, low doses, but should really get your testes going. If you can get HMG, even better.

I cant get HMG (yet) but Ill look into it.
I accidently wrote my does wrong. Im on 4500iu a week, 3 IM shots of 1500iu.

Ill put that cycle to my doctor as see what he says. Its a lot easier and a SHITLOAD cheaper if he writes a script for me. Being in aus, its risky getting gear from places like ar-r .
What are some of the other sides I could expect from running high does's of HCG? Just so I know what the Dr has put me up against.
Ill get bloods done mid way through to check my est levels.

[bogdan84uzy]

Lasdt cycle I actually used sterile water from the needle exchange here in the UK. It was kept for about 15-20 days in the fridge and it worked fine.

How do I know that? Because HCG gives me a little acne, my testes size returned and my PCT was pretty easy once the SERMs kicked in.

thank you very much for the answer!appreciate it!

[Swifto]

swifto can yuo comment on my cycle if i need to add hcg?

Use it how I outline in post 1.

I cant get HMG (yet) but Ill look into it.
I accidently wrote my does wrong. Im on 4500iu a week, 3 IM shots of 1500iu.

Ill put that cycle to my doctor as see what he says. Its a lot easier and a SHITLOAD cheaper if he writes a script for me. Being in aus, its risky getting gear from places like ar-r .
What are some of the other sides I could expect from running high does's of HCG ? Just so I know what the Dr has put me up against.
Ill get bloods done mid way through to check my est levels.

I dont think that amount of HCG is needed, not at all in fact.

I have a PM from a member I have been helping for a little while now in regards to sperm count, mobility, etc... And his wife is now pregnant after 5 years of trying!

Best PM I've ever got hands down.

[chi]

thanks buddy