Never done steroids, heard of anavar, please read and help me if you can, thanks

[cool8]

hello guys....
i m really confused, would like to find someone to chat with...
I m a hard gainer, have never been able to bulk up, i work out really hard, get a pump, that dissapears by the time i walk out of the gym
its so hard for me to be taking serious due to the fact that i am small (5'4) and really thin (118)...I've tried trainers, gainers, dif supplements, and nothing, i cant break my metabolism.
So i was in the process of getting Anavar (Oxandrolone) a friend was going to get it for me, and at the last moment I backed up due to the possible side effects... My friend and the body building websites, swear by this product, claiming is the safest, that wont give you liver or testicular (testosterone production after cycle) problems, no gynecomastia and that you will keep most of the gains and wont digress to what u were before taking it... But when i read the medical journals the picture was different... All does side effects are possible even at very low doses..... So i stop the process of getting it... my firend was upset and now I dont know if i did the right thing....
I am not looking to get Huge, i would be soo happy with a 10Lbs increase, but is it worth the health risk to look better and be noticed more?

As a gay man, since I am so slim is as if i were invisible. I am tired of not fitting in based on what i look like.. I am tired of having to buy clothes in the kids section... etc....
Its so hard to be smart, funny, people say good looking and all and all, not at bad buddy at all, very fit if I can say so, but once i put a dress shirt on, the body doesnt show and i look like a 14 y/o boy

So guys, anyone here can just learn advice on the matter, did i do the right thing? am I over paranoid thinking one cycle will be so harmful? is it really that good? also whats the going price for it, i think my friend was scamming me
thanks for reading, I am very down now, for a minute there i thought this was the answer to my prayers and now that crambled

thanks for reading, if you got advice, comments, support or any other interventions I would love to hear them
thanks guys

[ty357]

get ready to get your ass handed to you lol. take your email out

[premedreject]

Wow, everyone let's be nice to this guy, he sounds severely depressed....maybe even suicidal....

[premedreject]

Yeah, take your email out though, please, you'll have scammers trying to steal your money. Also, can't discuss price on this forum. Don't feel THAT down bro....I live in a so called luxury apt, and i got neighbors singing and playing loud ass jewish music right now, im about to kick some doors down.

[cool8]

sad yes, suicidal no... why would i get my ass hand out to me?

[Big]

for starters, what is your complete diet, in detail?

[Big]

and you have been asked twice to remove your email, you will likely regret it if you don't.

[tudodude]

welcome to a steroids forum................

[cool8]

i eat at least 3 big meals a day, chicken and/or read meat daily. Carbs (bread/rice/pasta)
protein shakes (doing nitrotech now, used to do isopure plus weight gainer), try to eat or snack or do a shake every 3 to 4 hours.
At one point i was doing 4000 cal diet for 2 months, gain 3 Lbs

[fastwardo]

Yeh remove your e-mail buddy. You did the right thing by backing out of the whole steroid idea and coming here first. I commend you! Many morons start taking these powerful hormones without a clue as to what they are actually doing, and THEN come here asking for advise lol. Now, you didn't mention a thing about your diet. Every single person here is going to tell you the same thing.
Buddy, 5 years ago I was 150lbs at 5'11'', and I had a gut!! I was able to reach 200 lbs of almost PURE MUSCLE and I actually lost an incredible amount of fat as well. All of this WITHOUT STEROIDS!! If I can do it, anybody can, believe me. How did I do it? Yes, My workouts were very solid and well put together, and I never got lazy with going to the gym, but by faaaaaar the biggest thing was my DIET. Please, post up your diet today. Show us EVERYTHING you each today from the time you woke up till bedtime, and I mean everything. Also, tell us WHEN you ate these things. There are a million people on here who can help you. Don't worry there is hope. I'm sure Jamyjarjr will post some good videos up here for you to watch when he reads this. Watch them. good luck, and forget about steroids

[premedreject]

i eat at least 3 big meals a day, chicken and/or read meat daily. Carbs (bread/rice/pasta)
protein shakes (doing nitrotech now, used to do isopure plus weight gainer), try to eat or snack or do a shake every 3 to 4 hours.
At one point i was doing 4000 cal diet for 2 months, gain 3 Lbs

More detail please....

If you want help, then you need to help yourself. List your diet, for example

Meal 1: blah blah blah
Meal 2: blah blah blah
Meal 3: blah blah blah

and list everything in detail. I'm crazy, i weight my food, but if you don't that's fine but please give more detail. Most likely, you are NOT reaching 4000 calories with that diet.

[cool8]

Ok, first i took my email out, i am not sure how they were going to take my money out of that email (which btw is not my real email, lol) but you guys know best.
Second thanks for taking the time to help me and listen to my rant. As i said I am new to this, and have little clue of anything.... shame to admit here but I am a physician, so I KNOW all the bad things medically proven about steroids and why they are bad.. then again It seems that in the gym i go to everyone is jacked up and live happy and without issues..... so its frustrating, and sometimes i wonder am i been to paranoid and i should just do a cycle of something and boost myself up a little....

as far as my diet. Morning Bagel with proteing shake, 9ish, lunch time, rosted chicken breast, rice and beans, 4 o'clock sandwich, swiss cheese or chicken sandwich. 6 oclock protein shake after work out...
8ish-9 dinner with steak or more grill chicken, plantains/rice or pasta.
sometimes with sweets (vanilla ice cream or cake) i know guiltu pleasure sugar...
thanks again guys
And please dont kill your jewish music playing neighbors

[cool8]

I am not doing the 4000 calorie diet now, at the time i was doing it, I was doing weight gainers and carb mixes on top of my food intake.. did it for about 2 months and was working with a trainer at the time and i gained 3 lbs, which went away 2 weeks after the 4000 calories

[premedreject]

I live in LA, in the most densely populated Jewish area in america next to brooklyn. It's a big day for them....I wont kill them. Ignorance is not my weakness.

[cool8]

good that u are not going to do that, lol
I work in Brooklyn, and its true its a rich jewish community, love the diversity of NYC
was that diet description good enough..
please guys help me out
and thank you so much to all of you

[premedreject]

Well, you are a physician right?

You know the 944?

1 gram fat = 9 calories
1 gram carb = 4 calories
1 gram protein = 4 calories

Also, alcohol, but i dont drink, but i think its 7 calories per gram.

so

bagel = 50 grams carbs maybe?

protein shake = 50 gram at most protein?

roasted chicken breast 5 oz maybe? = 30 grams protein

rice, 1/2 cup cooked maybe 20 carbs?
beans, maybe 20 carbs?

swiss cheese maybe 12 grams of fat?
bread on chicken sandwhich maybe 35 grams of carbs?
chicken form sandwhich maybe 4 oz? 25 grams protein

protein shake = 50 grams protein max?


this is all guess work, since i dont know the exact weight of your food or the nutritional values of what kind of food you ate. For example, the chicken might be fried, or the bread might be white, or the bagel might be egg instead of plain, understand?

But so far...

125 carbs = 500 calories

155 grams protein, where 100 grams is from protein shakes= 620 calories

12 grams of fat = 108 calories

That 1,228 calories


Do you know what the BMR is? Basal Metabolic Rate.
It's the amount of calories your body will burn no matter what, even if you slept all day in bed and didn't do a damn thing.

most mens BMR are above 1500, i know my 1700, so i will burn 1700 calories a day, just to keep my hearting beating, blooding flowing, and all vital organs functioning.

you are deficient in calories, your BMR will be much lower since you are a 118 pounds and 5'4.

Make a log of what food you eat, consider it a homework assignment, You'll be amazed at what you truly consume to what you think you consume. I dont think you are a hard gainer, I just think your diet needs to planned better...

[Western Man]

i am small (5'4) and really thin (118)...I've tried trainers, gainers, dif supplements, and nothing, i cant break my metabolism.
So i was in the process of getting Anavar (Oxandrolone)

You won't gain 10 lbs off of anavar. Besides if you only weigh 118 then either your diet or training is wrong, or both.

[cool8]

yes , my BMR, corrected is 1750.... i calculated it when i decided to do the 4000 cal plan, right now you are missing several things...
the carbs on the shakes, when i use mass tech its a considerable amount of carbs on top of the grams of protein.
also i prepared it on 12 Oz of whole milk, which gives me more fat, protein and carb calories.
I eat 1 to 1.5 cubs of rice.
so all an all i am doing enough to reach the 1750 or close to it.
the deal is this, when i was doing 2.5 times the amount of calories i need it to keep my BMR i still did not gain weight.
i am suppose to get 1LB per week if i increase my intake by 500 cal a day, I was increasing it at the time to 1250 cal a day for 2 months and only put up 3 Lbs.... does not add up....
My metabolism seems to be too high, and i think i have a strong disposition to estrogen receptors, giving me that puffy, bloated look, even when i am thin.

so what should i do, if I work out hard alone or with a trainer, or if i barely work out or dont do it all...... if i do 4000 cal or just enough to maintain my BMR..... the results its about the same, +/- 5 lbs (117 to 122)

when i started training at the age of 23. I was 103Lbs, and after 2 months of working with a trainer (eating the same as i always did), i gained 15 Lbs of mostly muscle... everyday i push/pulled more weight and gained more weight... till the day I plateu... i couldnt increment the lifting weight, nor I could gain more mass.... change routines, change trainer, did it on my own, and nothing seem to break me from plateu.... Hired a dif trainer and starting eating moslty fatty foods and i reach my heighest weigh ever 126 lbs... plateu there, after a while when back down to 120 and since oxcilate between 117 and 122, regardless if i train or not, and if i double my caloric intake or even cut it down.....
thats in a nutshell why i thought of steroids, but at the end chickened out on them,
any advice?
thanks

[cool8]

You won't gain 10 lbs off of anavar. Besides if you only weigh 118 then either your diet or training is wrong, or both.

might be the case, I am not sure about the training thing thou, cause i have hired a lot of dif traienrs, some of them elite ones (one in particular has clients well known in hollywood) and it dont seem to make much of a difference... I am pretty much and ectomorph, classic one.
what type of training/diet would you recomend for a ectomorph with a very high metabolism??
thanks

[sportfan33]

eat constantly and get some dbol if u really wanna do something, without injecting urslef or anything serious. If you have never done any aas before then dbol will put some weight on u, and as far as ur diet, i would knock out any type of rule u think u might know. I would eat anything and everything all the time, with a matab, like urs u need to slow it down if u wanna gain weight. So eat anything and everything.

[cool8]

Thanks sportsfan...The friend who was telling me about anavar, said dbol was a lot more harsh on liver and that will lead to supression of the testosterone for sure, thats why he said anavar was best. I am very concern with these side effects and was looking for something mild that will not upset my testosterone production, that i could keep the mass i gained after withough having to do PCT or keep doing cycles from now on (ideally want to do just one cycle and have not to deal with it anymore).....
but when i read the literature of anavar, it seems that even in low doses can give u liver problems, gyno and test suppression, and thats why i backed out... am I been paranoid or just one cycle of any of these stuff can give serious side effects... also on reading about AAS, i read about the formation of new Cortisone receptors that once u stop the cycle will be flushed with cortisone, creating a highly catabolic environment leading to even more weight loss that why i currently have.. that will really be upseting to me....
if i should try anything, giving my fears and my concerns about this side effects, which one should i use, how should i use it and for how long... or should i just forget about it and keep being my slim self?
thnx

[cool8]

AWW and also a trainer told me about those GNC testosterone boosters... Novedex, and such, i think also aritmase or something like it.... are they any good or just GNC BS... are they also risky as the real steroids? is there testosterone suppression after with the use of pro hormones??????
thanks

[premedreject]

I know someone who was skinny like you. He read this book scrawby to brawny. It really helped him. Maybe you can take a look at this book, and see if it can help you.

[hankdiesel]

How old are you and how long have you been training consistently? I'm surprised no one has asked this yet. Also, what is your main exercises in the gym? What muscle groups and you working on what days?

[elpropiotorvic]

to the owner of the post....yes you are short and a hardgaineer...but no not yet...i dont think you need a cycle yet....Im no diet guru, but i can tell you probably there is something wrong with the diet, cause im pretty sure there are people with a lot of muscle ur size,....U might be the hardgainer type but believe me Good diet, good training, good resting is a foolprof method to building muscle,

Im sorry cant give u much of the educated advise, cause im not that educated in BB...but try squatting hard..it will make u very hungry....at least it made me...and u will improve ur overall frame...

Also English is not my mother language but is physician the word used for medical doctor?, if so good to have u here u will prob make some valuable contributions to the forum..

Welcome to AR and hope u can find the tools to reach ur goals

P.S: The gnc stuff is BS IMO ....stick to BCAA's and whey... in terms of supplements Creatine and Arginine work IMO but use them when u hit a lifting plateau, try to improve the diet first and then check what happens

elpropiotorvic

[cool8]

I know someone who was skinny like you. He read this book scrawby to brawny. It really helped him. Maybe you can take a look at this book, and see if it can help you.

i will get the book, thanks premedreject

[cool8]

How old are you and how long have you been training consistently? I'm surprised no one has asked this yet. Also, what is your main exercises in the gym? What muscle groups and you working on what days?

good observation. I'll be 33 in October, so my metab was suppose to slow down by now.
I have been training for 10 years. My first plateu came 2 to 3 months into training ( i went from 103 Lbs, to 118), I change routines, trainers, even gym and couldnet get over the plateu. Then after a while got a dif trainer and he pushed me till i reach 126 Lbs (my highest weight ever), currently I am 118Lbs.
As far as exercise goes, I change it up from time to time, varies if i am working out with a trainer or alone. this year i had a trainer working with me for 4 months, then stopped, took two months of and just started again 2 weeks ago with a trainer and working on my own everyday.

the trainer that had me for 4 months was working with functional training (meaning incorporating elements of Yoga and posture and balance and core training, with weight lifting), that really took me no where, also he had me eating only organic food, brown bread and rice and nothing processed... did not gain weight, al contraire i think i lost 4 lbs.

the new trainer is concentrating in old fashion muscle building exercises, squats, dead lifts , bench presses.
we are working just one muscle group a day and we are not doing active rest.
this week was: Monday-- chest, tuesday Biceps and triceps... wednesday--- Back, Thursday--- legs and calf, Friday----core/abs.... Saturday --- Shoulders.....
I am taking my full 45 sec to rest between sets (the other trainer had me doing a dif mucle group while i rested to keep the heart rate to certain level)

this is not the fisrt time Ive done hard core old fashion trainer, I did body transformation with golds gym and tiger schullmans... again same results, no mass growth, but the opposite, weight loss.

I do get a pump and bigger when i work out, but i do not hold it, the same way that i can eat a platter of food at 1 AM, and be completely full and by morning my stomach is flat like a wall....

[premedreject]

i will get the book, thanks premedreject

Good, this book truly helped my friend. He was 135, and gained 20 pounds naturally after reading this book.

The book's main emphasis is to not do isolated muscle workouts, but to do suats/clean-n-jerks/weighted dips/ and exercises like that at high weight very low rep.

But get the book, it's worth a shot.

[cool8]

to the owner of the post....yes you are short and a hardgaineer...but no not yet...i dont think you need a cycle yet....Im no diet guru, but i can tell you probably there is something wrong with the diet, cause im pretty sure there are people with a lot of muscle ur size,....U might be the hardgainer type but believe me Good diet, good training, good resting is a foolprof method to building muscle,

Im sorry cant give u much of the educated advise, cause im not that educated in BB...but try squatting hard..it will make u very hungry....at least it made me...and u will improve ur overall frame...

Also English is not my mother language but is physician the word used for medical doctor?, if so good to have u here u will prob make some valuable contributions to the forum..

Welcome to AR and hope u can find the tools to reach ur goals

P.S: The gnc stuff is BS IMO ....stick to BCAA's and whey... in terms of supplements Creatine and Arginine work IMO but use them when u hit a lifting plateau, try to improve the diet first and then check what happens

elpropiotorvic

thanks, its good advice... yes I am a Medicine Doctor (at your service and of anyone who needs me here),
I am guessing your first langage is Spanish (your name is el propio, thats spanish)
thanks for welcoming me here
whats IMO???
My diet is far from perfect, but i've worked around it before, eating like an animal, and the funny thing is that at the end the reslut is the same as if I was eating one meal a day (which sometimes due to work, I've done)
so fluctuations on my diet in the past have yield very little difference in my gains or weight loss.

I think my metabolism is a big culprit on this

[cool8]

Good, this book truly helped my friend. He was 135, and gained 20 pounds naturally after reading this book.

The book's main emphasis is to not do isolated muscle workouts, but to do suats/clean-n-jerks/weighted dips/ and exercises like that at high weight very low rep.

But get the book, it's worth a shot.

thanks i will, you guys are wonderful, thank you so much for helping me out

[Berserker88]

Gallon of milk a day, need I say more?

[cool8]

i do drink a lot of milk, maybe not a gallon, but at least 24 Oz a day

[elpropiotorvic]

IMO (In my opinion) yes I'm Spanish... How often do you eat?
Have you tried heavy squatting ? I know that tha truly helps... Heavy deadlifting as well, with hunger and building A bigger frame, and stimulating protein synthesis, ur right ur 32 by now ur metabolism should be a little slower, what about rest and energy spenditure, do u think u get enough rest and are ur daily activities taking too much energy for them?

Good luck, I use to be ur weight at my height (6ft) :s I ate a lot and stopped doing the things that made me spend extra energy(2hours a day of walking after 4 hours of martial arts and 2 of gym) and rested a lot ... That's how I grew ( but given my height my weight is rather normal now 197)

good luck again

[sportfan33]

there is gonna be possible side effects with any type of supplement u would take. Protein powerds could have side effects on ur kidenys. I think everyone could agree here dbol isnt like a test u inject in ur muscle. For someone who thinks they are gonna do something and not to (die hard into aas) just scared what to do. I would say dbol because it will put weight on u. And most likely you wont have any bad sides from it. Goodluck with whatever you decide, you already know the diet u need and you could learn the exercises. I think a good book on bb like maybe ARNOLDS BOOK in body building. That book tells yu all about his diets and workouts he did to gain weight or cut weight.

[elpropiotorvic]

^^ true everything has sides, but he is small and dbol is unnecessary (aas right now IMO), j think that there is still something missing in his training or diet or sleep, and taking any AAS will probably help him go past where he is right now but of he doesn't figure out what's missing I think that as soon as he is off them he will go back ... I dunno, really not a pro but my thought on him

[Nooomoto]

This guy is a physician? I'm calling BS.

[lovbyts]

First off when you see someone with only a couple hundred post or less and they are suggesting you take this oral steroid or that it's probably because they are gona try to get you to buy from them. If they cared about your best interest they would not be suggesting that.

Your diet has been gone over. I hope you realize that 3 meals a day SUCKS for anyone. you should be eating 6+ times a day but dont need BIG meals just good healthy meals and you will start gaining real muscle without any steroids.

WHY has DSM not chimed in?

[sportfan33]

First off when you see someone with only a couple hundred post or less and they are suggesting you take this oral steroid or that it's probably because they are gona try to get you to buy from them. If they cared about your best interest they would not be suggesting that.

Your diet has been gone over. I hope you realize that 3 meals a day SUCKS for anyone. you should be eating 6+ times a day but dont need BIG meals just good healthy meals and you will start gaining real muscle without any steroids.

WHY has DSM not chimed in?

Oh so 2,000 posts makes u smarter? No im not selling anything it was a suggestion, just like urs was a suggestion. I also said that if ur going to do it, then thats what i would do. I mentioned his diet as well. I agree on u should eat more, but him with his profession should know what to eat and how much to gain weight. I still think that bb book would help

[bocrow]

Well Cool8, at least you can get Anavar. I recently got a hold of some Chinese "Anavar". The package looked professional, the pills looked good, but after a few days turned out to be nothing more than expensive sugar pills. In my life, I've only done two cycles: both of them with Anavar of good quality from South of the border (probably Noriega's Labs). The first cycle was in 87. The power-lifter owner of the gym where I was working out said that Anavar was a woman's steroid and that the amount I was taking would do nothing: I was using 25mg a day. I gained 100lbs on my squat (which was already at it's all time high) in 3 weeks! I gained 15 pounds going from 169 to 184. I was eating a lot. The weight gain was not all muscle but mostly so I think. And there were the tremendous gains in strength. I didn't notice any side-effects and I was able to retain my gains quite well without resorting to roids again until about 4 1/2 years later, when I decided to try another Anavar cycle, doing a cutting diet instead and reducing down to 153lb at a height of 5'8". So naturally brute force strength such as squats were not so impressive as the first cycle but in terms of proportionate strength measured by something like chin-ups and general athleticism: very good.

If you are concerned with the safety profile of the steroid and retaining your gains afterward, your idea of Anavar is a good one. If your main concern is simply to get big fast, then probably following Sportsfan33's suggestion would get you on your way. And if you "chicken out" and don't do any cycle, don't worry about it, probably better for your health in the long run and just look at some of the Super Bantam weight boxers who are in tremendous condition and are the same weight and height as you!