You'll want to read this!

[Ronnie Rowland]

When using high dosages like a 1000 mg per week of test enanth for example on a reload phase, how to transition (taper down) properly into PCT, considering its a long ester compound, and 1000 mg is twice as much as 500mg so it would take twice as long to clear isn't it?

500 mgs and 1000 mgs will clear out of the system at the same time because the active life and the half life of the drug does not change by varying dosages.

[ylfcm]

Ronnie , Thanks for your advice with much appreciation.

With the slingshot cycles seeing as you are always upping the dose in reload at what point do you stop, start again, go bacwards. I mean if you start on say 500 and say go to 750 then 1000 then 1250 and so on when do you pull up.

Ylfcm

[VASCULAR VINCE]

Ronnie...questions from competitors at my gym...does cutting salt n water day before contest... make you more ripped or soft???

[ricky23]

hi ronnie, ive finished my first 8 weeks of sus deca and dbol and im gonna start my 2 week downregulation but i was wondering whether using hcg in my next 8 week phase would be wise, or should it be left for pct after the entire 20 week cycle. because im taking high levels of test for essentially quite a long period of time i thought hcg maybe required as aprt of the cycle itself aswell as the pct.
also could you advise me how to cycle accutane - i know youve never used it personally but i thought you may know on how to use it for full effectiveness - i heard it can make your acne worse before it gets better after 5 months.
i really appreciate your advice.

[Ronnie Rowland]

Ronnie , Thanks for your advice with much appreciation.

With the slingshot cycles seeing as you are always upping the dose in reload at what point do you stop, start again, go bacwards. I mean if you start on say 500 and say go to 750 then 1000 then 1250 and so on when do you pull up.

Ylfcm

Everyone eventually reaches a threshold they feel confortable with in regards to reaching a maximum dosage for gaining size. For some it's only 750 mgs of test per week while for others it could be several grams plus. The majority of people I have worked with often begin to experience more side effects if they try and exceed 1.5-2 grams of test per week. In other words, they feel so lethargic it's just not worth the extra gains they could make using more, not to mention the cost and possible long term health issues that could arise.

Hypothetically speaking, let's pretend your threshold is 1.5 grams of test enanthate per week along with 600 mgs of tren enanthate per week. Once you reach that point, you would revert back to lower dosages for reloads only when you felt burned out or was incapable of making further gains. The worst thing you can do when trying to make maximum gains is to revert back to low dosages (for example 500 mgs of test for 8 week reloads) if you are still growing using 1500 mgs of test per week. The time frame to revert back to a lower dose during a reload is a very individualistic matter. Hardcore competitors and those trying to gain as much size as humanly possible would keep reloading with the 1500 mgs of test and 600 mgs of tren for lengthy periods of time only to reduce dosages for 2 weeks after each 8 week reload. The guys who are not so hardcore may opt to alternate a high dosed reload with a lower dosed reload every other reload or so. For example, phase 1-500 mgs of test, phase 2- 1500mgs of test, phase 3-back to 500 mgs of test and so on!


Note: Giving blood every 3 months or so helps keep both hemocrit levels and blood pressure in check. These are the 2 most important things to watch!

[Ronnie Rowland]

Ronnie...questions from competitors at my gym...does cutting salt n water day before contest... make you more ripped or soft???

Everyone's reacts a little different due to their metabolism. The higher the metabolism the more carbs, water, fat and salt that's needed to fill out the muscles.

To answer your question-Dropping all salt the day before a show causes you to look puffy not hard! When you drastically cut salt your body increases aldosterone levels (a hormone that causes subcutaneous water retention). In addition, salt helps glycogen to become absorbed in the muscles.

In regards to water, your muscle are mostly made of water so if you dehydrate yourself you will go most certainly go flat and look puffy. That's why so many people have screwed up their hard earned conditioning by taking diurectics.


A good plan is to cut water on friday evening before a saturday show. On the day of the show just sip as needed to fill out the muscles. The combination of carbs,fats, salt and water fill out the muscles on show day. Salt should never be maniplutated and you must not go into a show dehydrated! Not to mention it's very dangerous when hemocrit levels are high from taking all the anabolics. The combination of being dehydrated and having high hemocrit levels causes the blood to become sludgy and can cause a stroke.

Note: All too often competitors talk about how they looked puffy and flat the day of the show even though they carb loaded 3 days prior. Following the show they go eat a cheat meal and they not only fill out but become harder and more dense. Why is this? It's because the cheat meal contained enough sodium ,fat and water to fill them out.

[VASCULAR VINCE]

thank you ronnie from everyone!!! best explaination we've ever heard...you really do know your shit bro...further questions...should diurectics ever be used??? should one carb deplete before 2-3 day carb load???

[Ronnie Rowland]

hi ronnie, ive finished my first 8 weeks of sus deca and dbol and im gonna start my 2 week downregulation but i was wondering whether using hcg in my next 8 week phase would be wise, or should it be left for pct after the entire 20 week cycle. this is a decision you will have to make. Because im taking high levels of test for essentially quite a long period of time i thought hcg maybe required as aprt of the cycle itself as well as the pct. if you want to be 100% safe then go ahead and run 250 of hcg twice per week (500 total for entire 8 week reload then do full pct afterwards).
also could you advise me how to cycle accutane - i know youve never used it personally but i thought you may know on how to use it for full effectiveness - i heard it can make your acne worse before it gets better after 5 months. From what i have seen, i would use 40-60 mgs of accutane for 3 months straight as it can permanently destroy all your flare ups.
I really appreciate your advice.

answers above in bold.

[Ronnie Rowland]

thank you ronnie from everyone!!! Best explaination we've ever heard...you really do know your shit bro...further questions...should diurectics ever be used??? i don't believe diuretics are ever needed to look your best! A strong anti-es like letro can be used during the last 2-3 weeks prior to a contest if you decide to keep testosterone in the equation on the day of the show. The body regulates itself by lowering water retention to a large degree when using testosterone long term (throughout 12 week contest prep). If you go with non-aromatizing drugs like tren/winnie/masteron there is no physiological reason you should hold noticeable amounts of water while on these drugs. Anti-es are safer and more predictable than diurectics from what i have seen. My observations have shown that cutting water the night before a show along with some letro is best for drying out while remaining full. Diurectics like dyazide can work when used with precision (especially when using test going into show) but you always run the risk of going flat so I would just learn to peak without diurectics. Should one carb deplete before 2-3 day carb load???if you mean should one go into ketosis before carbing loading, then the answer is no. You should already be carb depleted enough by just taking in fewer carbs/calories. You should never do anything drastic as it will sabatoge rather than help! Carb loading is for athletes more so than bodybuilder's. Too many carbs late in the game causes you to spill over. I believe if you plan to do a big carb load it's safer if done earlier in the week to allow water retention to dissapate.

answers above in bold.

[VASCULAR VINCE]

as always...great info ronnie..thank you!!!

starting slingshot cutting program...we need recommendations on sets...reps..rest periods between sets...

[Ronnie Rowland]

as always...great info ronnie..thank you!!!

starting slingshot cutting program...we need recommendations on sets...reps..rest periods between sets...

1) I have my clients max out work sets for major muscle group when cutting for a show! This means 12 sets per major body part like arms, chest, delts, quads, etc. I usually do only 8 for back width and 8 for back thickness which is actually 16 sets total for back. Some have went as high as 24 sets total. A high amount of intense work sets will burn off more calories/body fat.

2) Reps stay around 10 and above! I do not go over 15 unless its calves, abs or forearms. I sometimes hit the 20 rep mark on those movements. Higher reps in the 10-15 range helps prevent injury when less water and fat is cushioning your joints during a dieting phase.

3) Rest between sets remains the same! If you try and move faster between sets while dieting down for a show it will cause you to use a lot less weight-hence you will lose density. Forget super-sets and such!

[Coca Cola]

Everyone eventually reaches a threshold they feel confortable with in regards to reaching a maximum dosage for gaining size. For some it's only 750 mgs of test per week while for others it could be several grams plus. The majority of people I have worked with often begin to experience more side effects if they try and exceed 1.5-2 grams of test per week. In other words, they feel so lethargic it's just not worth the extra gains they could make using more, not to mention the cost and possible long term health issues that could arise.

Ronnie, when a person max out their testosterone dosing threshold at only 750mg/week, what kinda strategy can this person use to make even greater gains?

Is it time to introduce second AAS compound (i.e tren , deca , eq, winstrol ) to their stack? Will the addition of the second compound be considered as a way to get around the maximum threshold of testosterone that the body can handle?

Or

Its a better idea for this person to add in GH and/or Slin instead of adding another AAS into the mix?

[Ronnie Rowland]

[QUOTE=Coca Cola;5062345]Ronnie, when a person max out their testosterone dosing threshold at only 750mg/week, what kinda strategy can this person use to make even greater gains? Add more test or another anabolic.

Is it time to introduce second AAS compound (i.e tren , deca , eq, winstrol ) to their stack? Yes Will the addition of the second compound be considered as a way to get around the maximum threshold of testosterone that the body can handle? Yes. Test and Tren combined are the two most effective anabolic steroids!
Or

Its a better idea for this person to add in GH and/or Slin instead of adding another AAS into the mix? GH would be the next step after adding a second anabolic. Insulin would be used as a last resort effort due to it's potential risk. I personally would not use insulin unless I had a chance of going to a very high level in competitive bodybuilding.To be more specific; TEST, GH AND INSULIN would provide more results than TEST and TREN but you would need a lot of money to get enough GH and insulin can be dangerous![/QUOTE]ANSWERS ABOVE IN BOLD

[Archangel.]

Hi Ron, I just read your post here twice and I have a q for you. Could you do this sort of blast (reload for 8 weeks then deload for 2) with the oral PH epistane or would it be unsafe and why? If not, how long could I reload on it before I did my deload? I ask because I know orals are worse on your system. I have some epi on hand right now, so it would be great to hear your advice. During the deload should I or would it be neccessary/beneficial to PCT with nolva and something like PCT assist? If not, what would you recommend? Thanks very much, this is a great post.

[Coca Cola]

Ronnie, when a person max out their testosterone dosing threshold at only 750mg/week, what kinda strategy can this person use to make even greater gains? Add more test or another anabolic.

Is it time to introduce second AAS compound (i.e tren , deca , eq, winstrol ) to their stack? Yes Will the addition of the second compound be considered as a way to get around the maximum threshold of testosterone that the body can handle? Yes. Test and Tren combined are the two most effective anabolic steroids!
Or

Its a better idea for this person to add in GH and/or Slin instead of adding another AAS into the mix? GH would be the next step after adding a second anabolic. Insulin would be used as a last resort effort due to it's potential risk. I personally would not use insulin unless I had a chance of going to a very high level in competitive bodybuilding.To be more specific; TEST, GH AND INSULIN would provide more results than TEST and TREN but you would need a lot of money to get enough GH and insulin can be dangerous![/QUOTE]ANSWERS ABOVE IN BOLD

Great info Ronnie! Thanks a lot for sharing with us!

I'm not sure on your view regarding oral steroids , do u prefer to avoid them completely, and stick to injectables?

Or do u regularly cycle them from time to time? if you do, what is the reason that make you choose to use oral compounds?

[Ronnie Rowland]

hi ron, i just read your post here twice and i have a q for you. Could you do this sort of blast (reload for 8 weeks then deload for 2) with the oral ph epistane or would it be unsafe and why? yes, you could. I would recommend a 20 week cycle (2 Slingshot phases-containing 2-8 week reloads and 2-2 week deloads before doing a full pct. if not, how long could i reload on it before i did my deload? I ask because i know orals are worse on your system. I have some epi on hand right now, so it would be great to hear your advice. During the deload should i or would it be neccessary/beneficial to pct with nolva and something like pct assist? during deloads i would simply cut epistane dosage by half. It would be a good idea to double the dosages used during the first reload when you enter the second reload. if not, what would you recommend? wait and do full pct after going through 2 slingshot anabolic phases (20 weeks total). thanks very much, this is a great post.

answers above.

[Ronnie Rowland]

great info ronnie! Thanks a lot for sharing with us!

I'm not sure on your view regarding oral steroids , do u prefer to avoid them completely, and stick to injectables? injectables are superior but some people do very well on orals. I avoid orals because they lower my libido and make me very lethargic. The only oral i use is winstrol and thats just 4 weeks before a show.

or do u regularly cycle them from time to time? a lot of people i train make great gains on anadrol and d-bol (especially strength gains). If you do, what is the reason that make you choose to use oral compounds? people choose orals because they get tired of jabbing themselves with a needle and for some d-bol and anadrol provides better strength gains than injectables like testosterone . TREN/TEST/D-BOL OR TREN/TEST/DROL packs on a lot of size/strength for those who can tolerate the side efects.

answers above in bold.

[Coca Cola]

answers above in bold.

Thanks Bro! All your answers are much appreciated!

I really has learned a lot from you even though I've only been here for a short time.. Looking forward to continue learning from you!

[Yellow]

Hi ronnie...
You're really a legend and an expert with lots of experiences and knowledge.

I'm new here. This is my first post in this forum.
I have been lurking, reading and learning a lot from this forum but I never post.

I have done many cycles before. All with oral steroids and PH/designer steroids for many years. I have done dbol , winstrol , p-plex, m-drol, tren xtreme, epi. Both stacked and standalone cycle. I did each for 6-12 weeks depends on the need (I compete for men body fitness class).

I know that orals are dangerous so that I want to stick with injectables for the next. But I still have lots of oral compound.
Here are my stockpile : lots of pink thai anabol (600ish tablets), 1 bottle of M1T, 1 bottle of winstrol, 3 bottles of tren xtreme, 2 bottles of p-plex, 1 bottle of m-drol, 4 bottle of epi, 2 bottles of propadrol and 1 bottle of methyl-XT.
From now on, I just use oral as a kickstart only.

Based on what I have read in this thread, from now on I will use injectables as a base and oral just as a kickstart.
I am planning 20 weeks slingshot cycle as you recommend for beginner like me. I am starting the cycle in April. Now I have finished my 4 weeks PCT and I want to go completely OFF from any anabolics for 10 weeks and then start cycle again.

My cycle plan:
Week 1-4: 40mg Epi per day (4caps)
Week 1-8: 500mg Test Enanthate per week (twice shot EW)
Week 9-10: 250mg Test Enanthate per week (twice shot EW)

Week 11-14: 30mg D-bol per day (6 tabs)
Week 11-18: 500mg Test Enanthate per week (twice shot EW)
Week 11-18: 60mg Propadrol per day (2 caps)
Week 19-20: 250mg Test Enanthate per week (twice shot EW)

Note: I use HCG 500IU per week (twice shot) during reload and 1000IU per week during deload (twice shot). Then do PCT for 4 weeks consist of clomid.

I'm gonna OFF for 10 weeks after each 20 weeks slingshot cycle then recommencing.
What do you think of my plan?

Oh yeah, I forgot to tell you that I choose epi for my first kicktstart because my company I work for do general check-up/bloodtest (routine every june) to all employees. I think I choose epi because it's milder on the liver and lipid panel than the other oral compound like dbol, m-drol, p-plex, M1T.
Previously, I planned to do dbol for the first kickstart and M1T for the second one.
Do you have any suggestions / opinions to me?

For first reload, I just want to use test as base because I want to really feel and know about test.
Would it be a good idea to stack Test Enanthate with Propadrol throughout second reload? Propadrol is non-methylated compound.
How bad does non-methyled compound do to lipid panel?

Thank you very much for reading my post, ronnie.
I am looking forward to hearing from you.

I'm sorry if I write too much because I am new here and I want to explain my history.

[Archangel.]

answers above.

At the end of the 20 weeks (2 reloads and 2 deloads) you advise to do a full PCT. How long should i pct for and with what products and what amounts? All ive ever used for pct is nolva and pct assist, but i would like to hear your opinion. Also, how should i dose the epi throughout the 20 weeks? Ive done 1 prior cycle of h- DROL 50,50,75,75,75,75 with great results in IMO, i weigh 190 at 5,7, been lifting for 12 years if you need to know. What should i do if I develop signs of gyno? Cease use, add in nolva?? Im not sure here. Im just doing my h-work, as im a member of prohormoneforum, and all those guys over there say never to exceed 4 weeks on epi, why do they say that? Are they just freaked out? Thanks so much Ron

[NotThatBig1]

Hey, read your thread with great interest and this is a good oppertunity to ask someone who really knows, not just the "guys" at the gym

I have not done a cycle for 10 years, I am 33 now and have been off and on training for a longer period. 2 years off now due to insane working hours and traveling. Quit that job and now have the time to workout again. However, during the time working I have gained som kg's, weighing in at 97kg now and 183cm tall. My ideal weight is 79/80. I have now been at the gym for 2months and are back in the game somewhat. Serious with the workouts, and gaining good results. Most shocking is that now, I am stronger then before

However, the reason for me to write here is this. I want to kick it off with a cycle. Get a boost in my search for a leaner and better body. I will never wish again to be as big as I have been when I was younger, but I want a smooth, lean body. So I have figured this out:

week 1 - 8 400mg Primobolan EW
week 1 - 8 250mg Test E/C ew
week 2 - 8 40mg Winstrol ED
week 8 - 12 20mg Nolvadex ed
week 16 bloodsamples

This because I want to diet for 10 weeks, 2 post cycle and under cycle. I dont want to be bloat, I dont want to grow much, just a little bit. I want a firm, hard body. I want little to none side effects, thus, trying to reduce the dosage. I also want a cycle that keeps the gains, not gainging 15kg's and pissing out 75% after cycle. I rather gain 2 - 4kg muscle weight and keep it.

So if you have the time. What do you think of the cycle??

[VASCULAR VINCE]

1) I have my clients max out work sets for major muscle group when cutting for a show! This means 12 sets per major body part like arms, chest, delts, quads, etc. I usually do only 8 for back width and 8 for back thickness which is actually 16 sets total for back. Some have went as high as 24 sets total. A high amount of intense work sets will burn off more calories/body fat.

2) Reps stay around 10 and above! I do not go over 15 unless its calves, abs or forearms. I sometimes hit the 20 rep mark on those movements. Higher reps in the 10-15 range helps prevent injury when less water and fat is cushioning your joints during a dieting phase.

3) Rest between sets remains the same! If you try and move faster between sets while dieting doen for a show it will cause you to use a lot less weight-hence you will lose density!

awesome info as always ronnie......do you think we competitors should start out with a keto diet when preparing for out show 12 week out....or... keep carb in????

[AnimalJ]

Been reading and learning for a long while. Gotta say amazing read, great info. Thanks man, its definitely making me think more of how i want to construct my cycle. I appreciate the time you put into your post.

-Animal

[AnimalJ]

I would like your opinion on this if you would. iv been playing with the idea of doing a cycle for a while and i have dabled with pro hormones some orals and what not but am now ready to this. ill post my stats goals and available gear and perhaps you could bestow some wisdom upon me.

Stats: 5'9 Weight: 206 pounds %BF:14
My goals are to shred up and maintain as much lean mass as possible and with the use of anabolics perhaps gain lean mass in the process. I am a very easy gainer if i eat protein and look at weight i tend to get mass, but cutting fat is a bit of an issue. Anyways id like to be around 202 at 6-8% somewhere in there so i know its all diet and cardio. I am currently on the anabolic diet which is a cyclical ketogenic diet as im sure you know. so in essence im not worried so much about getting bigger but am ready to take my physique to the next level in terms of quality. i do cardio 5-6 days a week sometimes twice a day and do intense weight training on a 4 day split. abs 3 times a week.

Anabolics available. Anavar , QV bold 200 (equipoise ) these are the 2 i would like to use seeing as they are the most mild in terms of side effects, what might you recommend for an 8 week cycle as far as dosage and inj times. or if you don't recommend it and you would recommend otter AAS what would you suggest? if its possible to run a cycle with these two i would like to as there so mild, if not i believe i can get test or deca , as i said side effects are a concern but i have accese to hcg , clomid and noval. one more thing if theres any supplements yo u reccomend to take with this cycle? looking forward to a responce (if i get one) and thank you for your time in advance.

-Animal

[Coca Cola]

I've been reading your thread again, and in page 2:

You'll want to read this!

You mentioned that it is not necessary to wait for the long ester to clear before starting pct? Am I reading this correctly?

I had an experience of doing this, I was finishing a Test/Deca cycle and I went straight to pct a week after last shot. The last 2 weeks of the ON cycle i used hcg and i managed to swell up my balls back before entering pct. I continued my hcg treatment up until the first week of pct to maintain the full size while waiting for the clomid and nolva to fully saturate in my system, then week 2 onwards i stop completely.. My pct consist of 4 weeks of clomid 50mg/day and 4 weeks of nolva 20mg/day. But what happen afterwards was that my balls actually shrink again during second week pct.

So from this incident, I made an assumption what went wrong was the long ester hasn't clear up from the last injection, and it continually suppress my HPTA even though I'm already on PCT.

This experience kinda draws attention to your statement where it is not necessary to wait until the ester clear up, if your statement is true, then what do u think went wrong, how did I end up shrinking again during pct even though i enter with full size (up to week 1 pct)?

Is it cause by the long ester (sustanon & deca) that has not clear up?

or could it be because of the use of hcg during pct?

or some other reason which i'm unsure of?

[Ronnie Rowland]

hi ronnie...
You're really a legend and an expert with lots of experiences and knowledge.

I'm new here. This is my first post in this forum.
I have been lurking, reading and learning a lot from this forum but i never post.

I have done many cycles before. All with oral steroids and ph/designer steroids for many years. I have done dbol , winstrol , p-plex, m-drol, tren xtreme, epi. Both stacked and standalone cycle. I did each for 6-12 weeks depends on the need (i compete for men body fitness class). if you want something that is going to build muscle like real steroids, then you will have to get real steroids. Real anabolic steroids offers much better gains than pro-hormones and have less side effects. Most pro-hormones are converted around less than 10% which makes them not as effective as anabolic steroid .


i know that orals are dangerous so that i want to stick with injectables for the next. But i still have lots of oral compound.
Here are my stockpile : Lots of pink thai anabol (600ish tablets), 1 bottle of m1t, 1 bottle of winstrol, 3 bottles of tren xtreme, 2 bottles of p-plex, 1 bottle of m-drol, 4 bottle of epi, 2 bottles of propadrol and 1 bottle of methyl-xt.
From now on, i just use oral as a kickstart only. i would suggest taking the pro-hormones during your 10 weeks off real gear and sticking to real anabolics throughout entire 20 week cycle.
based on what i have read in this thread, from now on i will use injectables as a base and oral just as a kickstart.
I am planning 20 weeks slingshot cycle as you recommend for beginner like me. I am starting the cycle in april. Now i have finished my 4 weeks pct and i want to go completely off from any anabolics for 10 weeks and then start cycle again.

My cycle plan:
Week 1-4: 40mg epi per day (4caps)
week 1-8: 500mg test enanthate per week (twice shot ew)
week 9-10: 250mg test enanthate per week (twice shot ew)

week 11-14: 30mg d-bol per day (6 tabs) (run d-bol weeks 11-18)week 11-18: 500mg test enanthate per week (twice shot ew) (increase test to 750 per week)week 11-18: 60mg propadrol per day (2 caps) (propadrol too weak imo)week 19-20: 250mg test enanthate per week (twice shot ew)

note: I use hcg 500iu per week (twice shot) during reload and 1000iu per week during deload (twice shot). Then do pct for 4 weeks consist of clomid.

I'm gonna off for 10 weeks after each 20 weeks slingshot cycle then recommencing.
What do you think of my plan?

Oh yeah, i forgot to tell you that i choose epi for my first kicktstart because my company i work for do general check-up/bloodtest (routine every june) to all employees. what day during june will blood test occur and when in april will you be starting 20 week cycle? ? i think i choose epi because it's milder on the liver and lipid panel than the other oral compound like dbol, m-drol, p-plex, m1t.
Previously, i planned to do dbol for the first kickstart and m1t for the second one.
Do you have any suggestions / opinions to me? give me the dates I asked for above and I will make a recommendation.
for first reload, i just want to use test as base because i want to really feel and know about test.
Would it be a good idea to stack test enanthate with propadrol throughout second reload? i think it would be a waste to run propadrol with anabolic steroids as the compound is too weak to make a noticeable difference. Propadrol gets very mixed reviews. Does non-methyled compound do to lipid panel? 4 weeks of use should not make a noticeable impact on lipids. But, it's going to vary amongst each individual.
thank you very much for reading my post, ronnie.
I am looking forward to hearing from you.

I'm sorry if i write too much because i am new here and i want to explain my history.

answers/questions above in bold.

[Ronnie Rowland]

At the end of the 20 weeks (2 reloads and 2 deloads) you advise to do a full PCT. How long should i pct for and with what products and what amounts? full pct:

Hcg 2500 is every other day for 2 weeks
clomid 50 mgs twice per day for 4 weeks
nolvadex 20 mgs per day for 4 weeks
All ive ever used for pct is nolva and pct assist, but i would like to hear your opinion. Also, how should i dose the epi throughout the 20 weeks? First reload about 30 per day, second reload about 50 per day and 10 mgs during both deloads. Ive done 1 prior cycle of h- DROL 50,50,75,75,75,75 with great results in IMO, i weigh 190 at 5,7, been lifting for 12 years if you need to know. What should i do if I develop signs of gyno? Cease use, add in nolva?? Just add in nolvadex . Im just doing my h-work, as im a member of prohormoneforum, and all those guys over there say never to exceed 4 weeks on epi, why do they say that? A major reason people never see good results with pro-hormones is they never use them for long enough periods. I've seen many people need 8 weeks (not 4 weeks) of taking 50 mgs of d-bol daily to make good gains. Are they just freaked out? Yes! Thanks so much Ron

Answers above in bold!

[Ronnie Rowland]

hey, read your thread with great interest and this is a good oppertunity to ask someone who really knows, not just the "guys" at the gym

i have not done a cycle for 10 years, i am 33 now and have been off and on training for a longer period. 2 years off now due to insane working hours and traveling. Quit that job and now have the time to workout again. However, during the time working i have gained som kg's, weighing in at 97kg now and 183cm tall. My ideal weight is 79/80. I have now been at the gym for 2months and are back in the game somewhat. Serious with the workouts, and gaining good results. Most shocking is that now, i am stronger then before

however, the reason for me to write here is this. I want to kick it off with a cycle. Get a boost in my search for a leaner and better body. I will never wish again to be as big as i have been when i was younger, but i want a smooth, lean body. So i have figured this out:

Week 1 - 8 400mg primobolan ew
week 1 - 8 250mg test e/c ew
week 2 - 8 40mg winstrol ed
week 8 - 12 20mg nolvadex ed
week 16 bloodsamples (you need to do a 20 week cycle because an 8 week cycle is not optimal)!
this because i want to diet for 10 weeks, 2 post cycle and under cycle. I dont want to be bloat, i dont want to grow much, just a little bit. I want a firm, hard body. I want little to none side effects, thus, trying to reduce the dosage. I also want a cycle that keeps the gains, not gainging 15kg's and pissing out 75% after cycle. I rather gain 2 - 4kg muscle weight and keep it.

So if you have the time. What do you think of the cycle??

answer above in bold.

[NotThatBig1]

answer above in bold.

Wow, so 8 weeks on the given cycle is to little? Do I really need to stack for 20 weeks, or did I missunderstand you now?

[Ronnie Rowland]

awesome info as always ronnie......do you think we competitors should start out with a keto diet when preparing for out show 12 week out....or... keep carb in????

You should always keep carbs in the diet when possible because they produce glucose (your bodies preferred source of energy) and prevent muscle break down. Ketosis is best used as a tool if needed to get off stubborn fat that remains after slowly tapering carbs. Some prefer to do ketogenic throughout most of their diet because they cannot control carb cravings unless they totally eliminate them from their diet.

[Ronnie Rowland]

i would like your opinion on this if you would. Iv been playing with the idea of doing a cycle for a while and i have dabled with pro hormones some orals and what not but am now ready to this. Ill post my stats goals and available gear and perhaps you could bestow some wisdom upon me.

Stats: 5'9 weight: 206 pounds %bf:14
my goals are to shred up and maintain as much lean mass as possible and with the use of anabolics perhaps gain lean mass in the process. I am a very easy gainer if i eat protein and look at weight i tend to get mass, but cutting fat is a bit of an issue. Anyways id like to be around 202 at 6-8% somewhere in there so i know its all diet and cardio. I am currently on the anabolic diet which is a cyclical ketogenic diet as im sure you know. IMO GOING IN AND OUT OF KETOSIS ON THIS ANABOLIC DIET IS NOT GOOD! So in essence im not worried so much about getting bigger but am ready to take my physique to the next level in terms of quality. I do cardio 5-6 days a week sometimes twice a day and do intense weight training on a 4 day split. Abs 3 times a week.

Anabolics available. Anavar , qv bold 200 (equipoise ) these are the 2 i would like to use seeing as they are the most mild in terms of side effects, what might you recommend for an 8 week cycle as far as dosage and inj times. Your going to need testosterone in any cycle as a base. You will also need to run a 20 week slingshot cycle not an 8 week cycle for maximum results. It's not uncommon to have more side effects on eq (anxiety/high hemocrit levels) and var (lethargicnes/low sex drive) than when using straight testosterone. many options are available. You might try the cycle below with the compounds you mentioned:
Phase 1:
8 week reload- anavar 40 mgs per day/test enatnthate 500 mgs per week divided into two weekly injections.
2 week deload- 250 mgs per week with 1 weekly injection.


Phase 2:
8 week reload-test enanthate 750 mgs of test enanthate divided into 2 weekly injections/400 mgs of eq divided into 2 weekly injections per week.
2 week deload-300 mgs per week with 1 weekly injection.

Or if you don't recommend it and you would recommend otter aas what would you suggest? If its possible to run a cycle with these two i would like to as there so mild, if not i believe i can get test or deca , as i said side effects are a concern but i have accese to hcg , clomid and noval. One more thing if theres any supplements yo u reccomend to take with this cycle? supplements would be protein powder, fish oil caps, glucosamine/chondroitin and have anties on hand in case needed. Taking creatine ehtyl ester during 2 week deloads works well. looking forward to a responce (if i get one) and thank you for your time in advance.

-animal

answers above in bold

[Ronnie Rowland]

Wow, so 8 weeks on the given cycle is to little? Do I really need to stack for 20 weeks, or did I missunderstand you now?

You read right! Go with 20 weeks.

[Ronnie Rowland]

I've been reading your thread again, and in page 2:

You'll want to read this!

You mentioned that it is not necessary to wait for the long ester to clear before starting pct? Am I reading this correctly?

I had an experience of doing this, I was finishing a Test/Deca cycle and I went straight to pct a week after last shot. The last 2 weeks of the ON cycle i used hcg and i managed to swell up my balls back before entering pct. I continued my hcg treatment up until the first week of pct to maintain the full size while waiting for the clomid and nolva to fully saturate in my system, then week 2 onwards i stop completely.. My pct consist of 4 weeks of clomid 50mg/day and 4 weeks of nolva 20mg/day. But what happen afterwards was that my balls actually shrink again during second week pct.

So from this incident, I made an assumption what went wrong was the long ester hasn't clear up from the last injection, and it continually suppress my HPTA even though I'm already on PCT.

This experience kinda draws attention to your statement where it is not necessary to wait until the ester clear up, if your statement is true, then what do u think went wrong, how did I end up shrinking again during pct even though i enter with full size (up to week 1 pct)?

Is it cause by the long ester (sustanon & deca) that has not clear up?

or could it be because of the use of hcg during pct?

or some other reason which i'm unsure of?

If your shut down, your shut down, so the compounds used will not matter! Everyone's body reacts a little differently when coming off steroids and pro-hormones. For example, I once read in a muscle magazine were Lee Priest claimed PCT was a complete waste of money for his body. He's not alone! Arnold never did PCT and some simply can't afford it as it can cost more than their cycles.

I'm all for PCT as a whole, don't get me wrong but throughout the years I have seen
people who did not seem to benefit one iota from PCT. They never had any negative side effects coming off steroids (including no or a low sex drive) or the PCT did nothing noticeable to help them recover faster or keep more gains. However, some of these people did taper their dosages all the way down to 100 mgs of test enanthate per week before going off. Some believe post cycle therapy puts too much strain on the recovery of their own axis so they just taper. I've seen some use hcg during cycles but not use it after coming off steroids and they claimed they did fine. Some use proviron to deal with a lower sex drive for a few days as well. That said, we all respond a bit differently. You might be one of these people who would benefit using 500 ius of HCG per week during the 2 week deloads. If that does not work you could always use 500 ius per week throughout your entire cycle. My experince has shown that many will experience desensitized testes to some degree over a 20 week Slingshot Anabolic Cycle. Postponing HCG usage until the end of a 20 weeker can increases some peoples need for a larger amount of HCG at the finish line. If you are one of the unlucky ones who do not bounce back well you will more than likely do better with lower/more frequent injections of HCG. By doing so you will help mimic your body’s natural LH release.


NOTE: At the end of the 20 week Slingshot Cycle, you'll want to stop the HCG as the slow acting steroids such as test enanthate clear the system. When doing a FULL PCT it's a good plan to start HCG 1 week after your last testosterone injection. Test leaves the system in two weeks making week 21 a good time to start HCG injections. This is 1 week after final deload after having done a 20 week Slingshot cycle. This allows for an even clearance in hormonal levels, while initiating FSH and LH production to begin stimulating your testes to produce testosterone. Recovery doesn’t begin while you are on HCG but after you quit using HCG since your body will not release its own LH until the HCG gets out of your system. Utilizing HCG during a steroid cycle will help prevent testicular degeneration if that's an issue for you!

[NotThatBig1]

You read right! Go with 20 weeks.

Ok! Thanks, real nice that you take your time answering!! Legend!

PS! What about your opening post;

KEEP ANABOLIC STEROID CYCLES/PRO-HORMONE CYCLES AT 8 WEEKS!

[Ronnie Rowland]

Ok! Thanks, real nice that you take your time answering!! Legend!

PS! What about your opening post;

KEEP ANABOLIC STEROID CYCLES/PRO-HORMONE CYCLES AT 8 WEEKS!

In the statement above I am making reference to 8 week reloads as longer reloads make it much harder to make gains due to increases in myostatin levels.

A 20 week Slingshot Cycle consist of:

Phase 1:
Weeks 1-8 reload (more anabolics)
Weeks 9-10 deload (less anabolics)

Phase 2:
Weeks 11-18 reload (more anabolics)
Weeks 19-20 deload (less anabolics)
Weeks 21 PCT OPTIONAL

NOTE: FULL PCT IS OPTIONAL AT WEEK 21 FOR THE MORE ADVANCED. ALL BEGINNERS SHOULD BEGIN FULL PCT AT WEEK 21.

[Archangel.]

Answers above in bold!

Thanks so much for the input Ron. Your help is greatly appreciated. As for the dosages you recommended, I only have 2 bottles of epi which dosed at your recommended 30/day, would only last the 1st 8 week reload. However, I also have 2 bottles of m14add, so could I use that for my 2nd reload? Which compound would be optimal 1st and which 2nd, and at what dosages for each? Also, would I still see good results in lean mass and strength with this 20 week blast if I am on a cutting diet (reduced carb, increased protein and healthy fats)?? I only consume 1750 cals a day 40p 40f 20c, or should i alter this and how?? Is hcg only injectable, or can i take it orally? I am trying to avoid pinning for personal life reasons Is there something else that could take its place ? Thank you very much Ron

[Archangel.]

Answers above in bold!

Thanks so much for the input Ron. Your help is greatly appreciated. As for the dosages you recommended, I only have 2 bottles of epi which dosed at your recommended 30/day, would only last the 1st 8 week reload. However, I also have 2 bottles of m14add, so could I use that for my 2nd reload? Which compound would be optimal 1st and which 2nd, and at what dosages for each? Also, would I still see good results in lean mass and strength with this 20 week blast if I am on a cutting diet (reduced carb, increased protein and healthy fats)?? I only consume 1750 cals a day 40p 40f 20c, or should i alter this and how?? Is hcg only injectable, or can i take it orally? I am trying to avoid pinning for personal life reasons Is there something else that could take its place ? Thank you very much Ron

[Coca Cola]

If your shut down, your shut down, so the compounds used will not matter! Everyone's body reacts a little differently when coming off steroids and pro-hormones. For example, I once read in a muscle magazine were Lee Priest claimed PCT was a complete waste of money for his body. He's not alone! Arnold never did PCT and some simply can't afford it as it can cost more than their cycles.

I'm all for PCT as a whole, don't get me wrong but throughout the years I have seen
people who did not seem to benefit one iota from PCT. They never had any negative side effects coming off steroids (including no or a low sex drive) or the PCT did nothing noticeable to help them recover faster or keep more gains. However, some of these people did taper their dosages all the way down to 100 mgs of test enanthate per week before going off. Some believe post cycle therapy puts too much strain on the recovery of their own axis so they just taper. I've seen some use hcg during cycles but not use it after coming off steroids and they claimed they did fine. Some use proviron to deal with a lower sex drive for a few days as well. That said, we all respond a bit differently. You might be one of these people who would benefit using 500 ius of HCG per week during the 2 week deloads. If that does not work you could always use 500 ius per week throughout your entire cycle. My experince has shown that many will experience desensitized testes to some degree over a 20 week Slingshot Anabolic Cycle. Postponing HCG usage until the end of a 20 weeker can increases some peoples need for a larger amount of HCG at the finish line. If you are one of the unlucky ones who do not bounce back well you will more than likely do better with lower/more frequent injections of HCG. By doing so you will help mimic your body’s natural LH release.


NOTE: At the end of the 20 week Slingshot Cycle, you'll want to stop the HCG as the slow acting steroids such as test enanthate clear the system. When doing a FULL PCT it's a good plan to start HCG 1 week after your last testosterone injection. Test leaves the system in two weeks making week 21 a good time to start HCG injections. This is 1 week after final deload after having done a 20 week Slingshot cycle. This allows for an even clearance in hormonal levels, while initiating FSH and LH production to begin stimulating your testes to produce testosterone. Recovery doesn’t begin while you are on HCG but after you quit using HCG since your body will not release its own LH until the HCG gets out of your system. Utilizing HCG during a steroid cycle will help prevent testicular degeneration if that's an issue for you!

Damn Ron! Thank you so much for such a detailed explanation! You're awesome!

For my next cycle I will follow your advice, I will use HCG throughout the 20 week cycle.

Just one last thing I need to make sure from you, if I do such protocol where I use the HCG all the way through, and succesfully prevent testicular shrinkage, is it still required to do your aggressive pct where you recommend to take HCG 2500iu EOD for the first 2 weeks of pct + 4 weeks of Clomid 50mg/day + 4 weeks of Nolva 20mg/day? Would that be an overkill?

Can I just use Clomid 50mg ED for 4 weeks instead, and leave out the HCG and the Nolva?

[bunz]

im pretty new to the steroid world and have tried anavar . I am currently on my third time and would like to know what is the max length to stay on it? I do have a thyroid problem and would like to add clen to my routine but am scared how it will aftect that. Do you know how this will interact with fertility also later down the road? Also primo...what are your thoughts? thanx

[Juicedupmonkey]

Ronnie I was recently doing deadlifts for my back day with a old time powerlifter, I'm a bodybuilder and deadlifts are my main excersize for back during reload or deload... I know it is one of the main power moves and he's telling me that's the only way it should be treated not going over like 4 reps... He will only do 1rep no matter what. And I've been using squats/benchpress/deadlifts as my main 3 for overall development. But now he's telling me if you want the thickness or width in your back deadlifts will work all those muscles but is for power, if you want a thicker/wider back you have to row or pull ups. What's your opinion on this? Should I still be doing deadlifts at the beginning if my workout for the best back development? Im also following your slingshot training program with deadlifts as my first excersize doing 4-6reps for the first set 8-10reps for the next 2... Then 12-15reps for the last set then will go onto rows or pull ups. Let me know what you think to get the best development.