Clomid Aministration Increases Free Testosterone by 1,410% in 8 Weeks

[Swifto]

After looking into it, I'm amazed at what long term studies of clomiphene administration have shown. Isolated clomid administration is capable of much more than I ever imagined. Take for instance this study in which five healthy young adult men aged 26 to 33 were given 50 mg of clomiphene citrate twice a day for 8 weeks. The whole study focused on how the older men were relatively non-responsive compared to the younger men, yet the data on the young healthy men is incredible in and of itself. I'm surprised the researchers didn't even raise an eyebrow at this.

By week 8 of CC administration, the total testosterone level (Fig 2A) achieved in the young adult group was 48.2± 1.4 nmol/L (a 268% increase above baseline level). The young adult men reached a maximal nSHBG-T level (free testosterone level) (Fig 2B) of 20.6 ± 3.2 nmol/L (a 1,410% increase) after 8 weeks of CC administration. The increase in free testosterone is huge. And the beauty of it is that this is all endogenous production, due to increases in LH and FSH, which were also measured and graphed in the full study.

Full study: http://www.andrologyjournal.org/cgi/reprint/12/4/258

[CHAP]

Great read thank you for sharing this one with us

[Swifto]

Great read thank you for sharing this one with us

My pleasure.

Although Clomid has its sides, its still the king of HPTA restoration IMHO. Even at 25mg/ED the shit is potent at raising LH, FSH and T.

[marcus300]

What are they compared to nolva swifto?
do you have any figures to hand.

Sides can be harsh with clomid but figures look great on that study.

[Swifto]

What are they compared to nolva swifto?
do you have any figures to hand.

Sides can be harsh with clomid but figures look great on that study.

I have never seen a Tamoxifen study that raised total T by 268%. There is also another study in my PCT thread that states it raised total T by 146%.

Dont get me wrong, Tamox is good, it raised total T more than Toremifene in a recent study (Aug 2009), but Tamox was dosed at 20mg/ED and Tore a meer 60mg/ED.

I'll try and get some numbers on Tamox for you.

Another thing...

Many Tamox advocates seem to refer to a single study that stated 20mg of Tamox is comparable to 150mg Clomid. Our old friend Anthony Conners for one... I recently read a post years ago by Nandi that said,

"This is a classic example of trying to draw conclusions from an abstract, and I have pointed this out to Llewellyn on a couple of occasions.

I have the paper in front of me, and quoting from bottom of p323 of the journal,

"In the normal subjects the degree of activation of the hypothalamic-pituitary-gonadal axis obtained by tamoxifen, 20 mg/day, was slightly although not significantly less than that obtained with Clomid, 150 mg/day."

The graphs on the following page show that throughout the course of the study Clomid produced slightly higher levels of both LH and T than did nolvadex.

Since it is unlikely BB's will ever self administer LHRH, that aspect of the study is of questionable relevance. What is important is that the drugs had pretty much the same effect on the HPTA, with Clomid being slightly better in terms of LH and testosterone production."

[Swifto]

Althougth I dont advise doses of 100mg/ED for any length, let alone 8 weeks, it proves that higher doses of Clomid are effective if one can handle them. There seems to be a positive dose response with Clomid.

I still advise 50mg/ED for 2 weeks, followed by 25mg/ED for a further 3-6 weeks. But if you can handle larger doses, by all means go ahead.

[KimboHalfSlice]

I just finished my first cycle and I'm doing PCT as follows:

Clomiphene 100/50/50/50
Tamoxifen 40/20/20/20

I've only got 4 days left of PCT.

I didn't get any serious side-effects from the PCT drugs, no eyesight problems or anything like that. Only thing though is that I've had some insomnia problems for the last week or two, but then again everybody gets insomnia every once in a while, once a year or whatever for no known reason.

What are the bad side-effects of Clomiphene that people always talk about? Is it eyesight problems?

[Swifto]

I just finished my first cycle and I'm doing PCT as follows:

Clomiphene 100/50/50/50
Tamoxifen 40/20/20/20

I've only got 4 days left of PCT.

I didn't get any serious side-effects from the PCT drugs, no eyesight problems or anything like that. Only thing though is that I've had some insomnia problems for the last week or two, but then again everybody gets insomnia every once in a while, once a year or whatever for no known reason.

What are the bad side-effects of Clomiphene that people always talk about? Is it eyesight problems?

Clomid and Tamoxifen are both fairly occular toxic. But that side seems to disapear after its use. Permanent damge is possible, but very rare. Tamoxifen is also a carcinogen, it seems. They both exert levels of geno-toxicity.

1st Gen SERMs, such as Clomid and Tamox should be used for their purpose and thats it. Supplementing them to raise baseline values isnt a wise idea IMHO. Although they are safe compounds, there are alternatives that exert less sides, such as Toremifene for example. Low dose Clomid and Tore is usually my PCT, with HCG and an AI during the cycle.

You should be using the least amount possible that yields effective results IMHO. But there are circumstances where more maybe better. Such as when the user has been shutdown for extended peroids. Then 100mg/ED Clomid may be needed, but 25mg/ED has been proven to be very effective.

[hackskii]

Swifto is bang on with this one.

This information is taken from:
AMERICAN ASSOCIATION OF CLINICAL ENDOCRINOLOGISTS

It says:
Clomiphene Stimulation Test.
—In the clomiphene stimulation test, 100 mg of clomiphene citrate is given for
5 to 7 days as an evocative test of the hypothalamic-pituitary axis. Clomiphene acts by interrupting the negative
feedback loop and thereby stimulating release of
gonadotropin from the pituitary. A doubling of LH and a
20 to 50% increase in FSH are normal results indicative of
an intact hypothalamic-pituitary response (13).

I have used diffrent SERMS for PCT and the most effective one was 100mg clomid a day along with 20mg of nolva.
I run the clomid for 30 days and the nolva for 45 days.

But depending on what the cycle used, amounts, length of time on, and the degree of how one responds to the SERMS and HCG, all things can be moved around to suit the cycle.

Without clomid in my PCT, I find it terribly hard to recover, regardless of the other SERMS out there.
Clomid is king in my book.
Only visual problems I get are around the 3 to 4 week mark with 100mg ED and that is tracers, which go away after discontinuence.