slightly dissapointed with first cycle

[AlphaMaleDawg]

I just started week 11 of a 12 week test-e only cycle (500mg a week) and was hoping for better. I started at 169lbs (I'm 5-9) and was completely ripped. This morning I woke up at 186lbs but with a considerable amount of fat/water added. While I did gain a good amount of muscle, I am not ripped anymore and my abs arent as visible as they were then. I gained some strength but thought I could have gained slightly more strength. Right now my strength is the same as it was when I weighed 193lbs about a year ago (albeit with extra fat I had on me. I cut down to 169 after and lost a considerable amount of strength.

My guess is I shouldnt have gone directly from a cut at 2300 calories a day (roughly 220g pro, 200g carb, 80g fat) to what I am doing now, which is 3,500 cals, 215 pro, 430 carb, 93 fat.

My workouts are very intense (medium volume and my last set of each exercise to failure at around 8 reps)

anyone else have any ideas as to what I did wrong or is this basically what I should have expected? I keep reading about people gaining 25lbs and losing fat in the process with this same cycle. My physique was better looking before, which is alarming

[fresh31]

lots of variables here, could be your diet was messed up, according to what you said you're high on carbs and low on protein which is likely why you softened up. The gear could of been bunk/underdosed

[amcon]

sounds like bad gear... but lots of things could be the issue

[mas-polloxxx]

I would take in almost double your protein intake while on test, especially. Your body can process and utilize more protein on gear, which will ultimately mean more muscle. I wouldn't take in anything less than 2g of protein per pound of body weight, you're way under dosed protein imo

[Vitruvian-Man]

This was a test only cycle, and he gained 17 pounds in 3 months... yet you guys think the gear was bunk? LOL.

... Seems logical.

[amcon]

i gained 17 lbs in 30 days on spawn.... any ways, the protine thing should be 1- 2 grams per body weight - i stick around 1 to 1.5, and there has been many tests done that show 1 - 2 is ideal

could be food in take - as in total cals, or amount of meals a day, splits, test good or bad, ... any sort of thing

[DOM6]

^^^ my thoughts exactly
when i ran test e i gained everything i could nomatter how my diet was.
25lbs gains and lose fat dont see that happening, gain 25lbs of solid muscle in 12weeks just dont see it

[Ronnie Rowland]

I keep reading about people gaining 25lbs and losing fat in the process with this same cycle. My physique was better looking before, which is alarming

Some people tend to get carried away and exxagerate their gains!

If it had been me I would have increased protein intake and ran only an 8 week cycle.

Steroids are only an aid. Diet must be right to get the look!

Did you use anties? They will hold back your strength gains.

[johnnyrv]

What was your pct like?

[AlphaMaleDawg]

Some people tend to get carried away and exxagerate their gains!

If it had been me I would have increased protein intake and ran only an 8 week cycle.

Steroids are only an aid. Diet must be right to get the look!

Did you use anties? They will hold back your strength gains.

no didnt use any AI's at all. I drank binged on alcohol about 3 times only so I doubt that would be holding back so many gains. I doubt my gear was bunk since my libido was much higher (then again my fat intake could have helped with that too) and I got a few pimples at one point. Does protein really need to be that much higher on gear? If I had known, it could have been easy to sneak in a double scoop of whey with a meal somewhere in the day

btw i dont know if this is relevant, but all of my glute injections so far have been completely painless. havent felt sore or anything. its like nothing even happened after the injection

What was your pct like?

cycle's not over yet. im in week 1. I will use clomid and nolva 2 weeks after my last injection

[workoutfreak078]

Does protein really need to be that much higher on gear? If I had known, it could have been easy to sneak in a double scoop of whey with a meal somewhere in the day

Your protein should be higher than that when bulking even when not taking gear. I think how low your protein intake was played a major factor. Gear increases protein synthesis and helps the body utilize protein and other nutrients a lot more efficiently and faster. The comment about you sneaking in a couple of scoops of whey to get that extra protein tells me that your diet was probably not that good either. I'm not saying it's true, just what I am getting from the comment. You should probably post your diet.

[AlphaMaleDawg]

Your protein should be higher than that when bulking even when not taking gear. I think how low your protein intake was played a major factor. Gear increases protein synthesis and helps the body utilize protein and other nutrients a lot more efficiently and faster. The comment about you sneaking in a couple of scoops of whey to get that extra protein tells me that your diet was probably not that good either. I'm not saying it's true, just what I am getting from the comment. You should probably post your diet.

I'll post my diet when I get home from work. I have it saved on a document. I will tell you that when it comes to diet, I am pretty knowledgeable. However when it comes to gear, I'm still new at this and didn't realize that it was so important to consume extra protein. Right now, I'm getting roughly 84 grams of my current protein intake through shakes. This isn't too much by any means if I am taking about about 220-230 total throughout the day. However you're right, I should probably make myself an extra 6-8oz or so of chicken at some point in the day to increase my protein intake. I still technically have four weeks left since the test still works for two weeks after I stop taking it so it's not too late to make one last hurrah I guess.

[marcus300]

The transition from a cut diet to a bulking one is a tricky one, we all respond differently, some of us need to slowly introduce the carbs over a 14 day period instead of introducing them all at once, this can have a dramatic effect on your bf and water weight especially when on cycle, your gear sounds good and gains are fine but I would say the issue is within the diet and the period from the cut to the bulk, you could also be holding water and an AI might work great next time.

[AlphaMaleDawg]

The transition from a cut diet to a bulking one is a tricky one, we all respond differently, some of us need to slowly introduce the carbs over a 14 day period instead of introducing them all at once, this can have a dramatic effect on your bf and water weight especially when on cycle, your gear sounds good and gains are fine but I would say the issue is within the diet and the period from the cut to the bulk, you could also be holding water and an AI might work great next time.

This is what I was thinking! It only took me five days to transition, which isn nearly enough time. I figured if I was on gear, I might as well get them
all in quickly. I guess I needed to be more patient

[chuckt12345]

17lbs i pretty good,, few weeks of good diet and lots of cardio will get that water shedded

[dec11]

all the talk of protein in grs per lb is often greatly exaggerated, your total body weight is much larger than the muscle weight it contains, excess protein will turn 2 fat

[workoutfreak078]

This is what I was thinking! It only took me five days to transition, which isn nearly enough time. I figured if I was on gear, I might as well get them
all in quickly. I guess I needed to be more patient

Yeah, that could have been it. I'm starting my cycle in March and I am going to start my transition from a cut, to a lean bulk, starting in mid-January. The more time your body has to transition, and the slower and steadier it is, the less fat you will gain.

[AlphaMaleDawg]

all the talk of protein in grs per lb is often greatly exaggerated, your total body weight is much larger than the muscle weight it contains, excess protein will turn 2 fat

it is extremely exaggerated for people not on gear. The higher the carbs, the less protein u need. I kind of asumrd it was the same on cycle.

Yeah, that could have been it. I'm starting my cycle in March and I am going to start my transition from a cut, to a lean bulk, starting in mid-January. The more time your body has to transition, and the slower and steadier it is, the less fat you will gain.

Yes I jumped the gun bc I switched from natural to not natural. Lesson learned I guess

[H_U_G_O]

Your protein should be higher than that when bulking even when not taking gear. I think how low your protein intake was played a major factor. Gear increases protein synthesis and helps the body utilize protein and other nutrients a lot more efficiently and faster. The comment about you sneaking in a couple of scoops of whey to get that extra protein tells me that your diet was probably not that good either. I'm not saying it's true, just what I am getting from the comment. You should probably post your diet.

as far as i know due to my studies that excessive amounts of protiens would be stored as fat if your not an active person, which includes working out, when taking those amount of proteins and not working hard to fit them in ur muscles i believe it will be stored as fat and causes the abs to disappear and form fat tissues...

active person while on gear i think that he needs to do hard work in order to achieve there goals.. working out liek a monster, cardio, etc etc...

thats my point as for me i'm intaking around 250 to 300 grams and i gained 8.8 pounds of muscles in around 16 days expecting to be 18 pounds in the 1st month...

is that the avarage gain on test e cycle ?

[AlphaMaleDawg]

17lbs i pretty good,, few weeks of good diet and lots of cardio will get that water shedded

but wouldnt I lose all my gains if I started a cutting phase directly after the cycle is over?

[workoutfreak078]

but wouldnt I lose all my gains if I started a cutting phase directly after the cycle is over?

Don't start directly after. Try and maintain what you have first. Do a proper PCT, eat extremely clean and healthy. Make sure you are getting enough calories and nutrients. Keep your workout intensity the same as it was on cycle if you can. If not, try to. Do this for a couple of months. Once you reach the point where you are maintaining your gains pretty well, then start to cut.

[AnabolicApocalypse]

I keep reading about people gaining 25lbs and losing fat in the process with this same cycle.

Testosterone only helps you burn fat if you're cutting, that is, taking in less calories than you are burning. Nobody does a bulking cycle and comes out with a rock-hard chiseled figure. It's normal to have extra fat and water. Just make you're next cycle a cutting one.

[Ronnie Rowland]

no didnt use any AI's at all. I drank binged on alcohol about 3 times only so I doubt that would be holding back so many gains. I doubt my gear was bunk since my libido was much higher (then again my fat intake could have helped with that too) and I got a few pimples at one point. Does protein really need to be that much higher on gear? If I had known, it could have been easy to sneak in a double scoop of whey with a meal somewhere in the day

You should have been taking in 1.5-2 grams of protein per pound of body weight daily because steroids increase the muscles ability to take in more protein (protein synthesis).

It only takes 200 grams of test per week to cause zits and increase libido. This means it is always possible your gear was legit yet somewhat underdosed! If that be the case you would have done much better using 750-1000 grams of test per week. It has not been uncommon for me to see first time users to do upwards of 750-1 gram of test in fear their gear may be watered down and they would not capitilize off their fist cycle. It was very common when some of the watered down mexican gear was readily available. I'm not suggesting anyone do this I am only telling you what I have seen in the gyms I have worked at as a personal trainer for the past 23 years. Those with a good source can usually gain off of 300 mgs per week with a first cycle when the diet/training is good but I always tell people with a proven source to go with 500 just to be safe.

Also, it's common to gain some fat when bulking whether anti-es are used or not. Take in too many carbs and/or calories and you are going to put on body fat.

[Ronnie Rowland]

thats my point as for me i'm intaking around 250 to 300 grams and i gained 8.8 pounds of muscles in around 16 days expecting to be 18 pounds in the 1st month...

is that the avarage gain on test e cycle ?

You do not gain 8.8 pounds of pure muscle in 16 days. It was mostly water weight!

[AlphaMaleDawg]

You should have been taking in 1.5-2 grams of protein per pound of body weight daily because steroids increase the muscles ability to take in more protein (protein synthesis).

It only takes 200 grams of test per week to cause zits and increase libido. This means it is always possible your gear was legit yet somewhat underdosed! If that be the case you would have done much better using 750-1000 grams of test per week. It has not been uncommon for me to see first time users to do upwards of 750-1 gram of test in fear their gear may be watered down and they would not capitilize off their fist cycle. It was very common when some of the watered down mexican gear was readily available. I'm not suggesting anyone do this I am only telling you what I have seen in the gyms I have worked at as a personal trainer for the past 23 years. Those with a good source can usually gain off of 300 mgs per week with a first cycle when the diet/training is good but I always tell people with a proven source to go with 500 just to be safe.

Also, it's common to gain some fat when bulking whether anti-es are used or not. Take in too many carbs and/or calories and you are going to put on body fat.

im pretty sure it's not underdosed but that is certainly an interesting theory. as far as other sides go, whenever I brush/comb my hair, some hair strands fall off. Kind of scary.

when I come off, should I keep my diet the exact same but decrease my workout frequency and do more cardio?

[Tjohn6231]

On a bulk cycle of test only, I would consider 19 lbs in 11 week a success. Im doing almost the same cycle as you, and Im on week 12. Ive put on a solid amount of muscle, but have lost weight (which was my goal) because I was around 20-22% bodyfat when I started. I kept my diet clean, and probably cheated 8-10 meals in 12 weeks. Im guesing that Im about 15% now, but with more muscle. Im pretty happy with my results for my first cycle

[H_U_G_O]

You do not gain 8.8 pounds of pure muscle in 16 days. It was mostly water weight!

i thought so, any other way to get rid of the water using something other than armidex ? u think my protien intake is enough ?

[Ronnie Rowland]

im pretty sure it's not underdosed but that is certainly an interesting theory. as far as other sides go, whenever I brush/comb my hair, some hair strands fall off. Kind of scary.

when I come off, should I keep my diet the exact same but decrease my workout frequency and do more cardio?

During a time hormones are falling you will need to decrease training volume by half but keep up the intensity. More cardio is fine unless you are very lean. I believe in dropping protein by half for 1-2 week after an 8 week cycle but in your case keep protein as is.

[Ronnie Rowland]

i thought so, any other way to get rid of the water using something other than armidex ? u think my protien intake is enough ?

Drink more fluids, lay off of salt and decrease carbohydrate intake.

[love2liftiron]

sounds good too me

[ninesecz]

I just started week 11 of a 12 week test-e only cycle (500mg a week) and was hoping for better. I started at 169lbs (I'm 5-9) and was completely ripped. This morning I woke up at 186lbs but with a considerable amount of fat/water added. While I did gain a good amount of muscle, I am not ripped anymore and my abs arent as visible as they were then. I gained some strength but thought I could have gained slightly more strength. Right now my strength is the same as it was when I weighed 193lbs about a year ago (albeit with extra fat I had on me. I cut down to 169 after and lost a considerable amount of strength.

My guess is I shouldnt have gone directly from a cut at 2300 calories a day (roughly 220g pro, 200g carb, 80g fat) to what I am doing now, which is 3,500 cals, 215 pro, 430 carb, 93 fat.

My workouts are very intense (medium volume and my last set of each exercise to failure at around 8 reps)

anyone else have any ideas as to what I did wrong or is this basically what I should have expected? I keep reading about people gaining 25lbs and losing fat in the process with this same cycle. My physique was better looking before, which is alarming

Just so you know.... 215pro = 860 cals 430carb= 1720cals 93fat= 837cals
that is 3550 cals and that is a rediculous amount of fat!! I eat close to 400 calories a day and eat only 50-70grams a fat and 70 being muy worst day! No wonder you gained fat 100grams of fat a day is way to much to stay lean

[jcosley]

Just so you know.... 215pro = 860 cals 430carb= 1720cals 93fat= 837cals
that is 3550 cals and that is a rediculous amount of fat!! I eat close to 400 calories a day and eat only 50-70grams a fat and 70 being muy worst day! No wonder you gained fat 100grams of fat a day is way to much to stay lean

So what you are saying FAT MAKES YOU FAT? I have to disagree with you sorry.

Problem I see with the diet is he bumped his carbs way up and not the protein at all. He should have added 1/3 more protein and kept everything else the same... pry should of had 275+ grams or protein a day. Excess glycogen isn't the best thing ...and probably why he gained excess fat.

Was he doing any cardio during this at all?

[ranging1]

if ur not using any AI or SERMS u could be holding ALOT fo water weight

i just did my first test cycle at 500mg

im around 12%bf is that helps

i went from 86kg to 105kg in 11 weeks but my strength gains were huge

by week 14 i was down to 100.8kg

and now 2 weeks into PCT im 94.5kg, and kepy 95% of my strength

so i lost ALOT of water weight caused by test

what im trying to say here is u are holding alot of water, how much ur holding i dont know but if ur like most people u can hold anywhere between 2-10 pounds of excess water caused by the aromatizasion of testerone

so dont worry to much since water retention can be mistakened for fat alot of times

however everyone else has a pont above, it couldve been due to other factors and maybe it is fat

[dec11]

it is extremely exaggerated for people not on gear. The higher the carbs, the less protein u need. I kind of asumrd it was the same on cycle.

well i can assure you that at 235lbs i do not need 470grms of protein, im growing like crazy on 240

[jcosley]

well i can assure you that at 235lbs i do not need 470grms of protein, im growing like crazy on 240

Yeah I was going to say 200-275 range is plenty enough. Don't need to go crazy and go over 300+.

[AlphaMaleDawg]

if ur not using any AI or SERMS u could be holding ALOT fo water weight

i just did my first test cycle at 500mg

im around 12%bf is that helps

i went from 86kg to 105kg in 11 weeks but my strength gains were huge

by week 14 i was down to 100.8kg

and now 2 weeks into PCT im 94.5kg, and kepy 95% of my strength

so i lost ALOT of water weight caused by test

what im trying to say here is u are holding alot of water, how much ur holding i dont know but if ur like most people u can hold anywhere between 2-10 pounds of excess water caused by the aromatizasion of testerone

so dont worry to much since water retention can be mistakened for fat alot of times

however everyone else has a pont above, it couldve been due to other factors and maybe it is fat

i think its water mostly judging from experience. I should lose a lot of the water when I come off though. I dont know if thats a good thing (losing water around stomach) or a bad thing (losing water muscle)

[AlphaMaleDawg]

Just so you know.... 215pro = 860 cals 430carb= 1720cals 93fat= 837cals
that is 3550 cals and that is a rediculous amount of fat!! I eat close to 400 calories a day and eat only 50-70grams a fat and 70 being muy worst day! No wonder you gained fat 100grams of fat a day is way to much to stay lean

i appreciate the help and calculations, but you're wrong about me eating too many fats. Low fat diets are bad for your hormone levels and can lead to lower test. I'm at a moderate fat diet right now

[AlphaMaleDawg]

So what you are saying FAT MAKES YOU FAT? I have to disagree with you sorry.

Problem I see with the diet is he bumped his carbs way up and not the protein at all. He should have added 1/3 more protein and kept everything else the same... pry should of had 275+ grams or protein a day. Excess glycogen isn't the best thing ...and probably why he gained excess fat.

Was he doing any cardio during this at all?

basketball once or twice a week has been my only cardio. I took Layne Norton's bulking advice (he is a natty btw) and ate more than 2g of carbs per lb of bodyweight. Sometimes I get confused as to how the rules change when on gear. I couldnt find any clear research on how diet should differ from natural to not natural


btw update on results: week 12 starts in 2 days and im at 188lbs, muscles are rock solid. I did more cardio lately bc i played basketball 3 days out of 4 and ate more to compensate. I have also added a scoop of whey to my diet. I still have pretty visible abs in the mornings ive noticed when im holding less water. overall im pleased with the results but expect the water I lose when I come off to really show off my abs again

[jcosley]

basketball once or twice a week has been my only cardio. I took Layne Norton's bulking advice (he is a natty btw) and ate more than 2g of carbs per lb of bodyweight. Sometimes I get confused as to how the rules change when on gear. I couldnt find any clear research on how diet should differ from natural to not natural


btw update on results: week 12 starts in 2 days and im at 188lbs, muscles are rock solid. I did more cardio lately bc i played basketball 3 days out of 4 and ate more to compensate. I have also added a scoop of whey to my diet. I still have pretty visible abs in the mornings ive noticed when im holding less water. overall im pleased with the results but expect the water I lose when I come off to really show off my abs again

Nice...well keep us posted!