Are all "Senior" and "Veteran" members on board with 8 week only cycles?

[07sandiegomuscle]

It was posted and agreed upon by several "Senior" and "Veteran" members in this forum about doing no more than 8 week cycles, is that universal aas law? Everyone is writing about their 8+ week cycles they are on or are going to be on. Is the no more than 8 week cycle advice bunk or not? I am just trying to become knowledgeable, thanks.

[lovbyts]

Whree are you reading this and what kind of cycle are you talking about.
Orals should be no more than 4 weeks
Test should be no less than 10 - 14 weeks
Deca should be 10-12 weeks

it all depends on what you are talking about.

[07sandiegomuscle]

Whree are you reading this and what kind of cycle are you talking about.
Orals should be no more than 4 weeks
Test should be no less than 10 - 14 weeks
Deca should be 10-12 weeks

it all depends on what you are talking about.

Ronnie Rowland who is an "AR Hall of Famer" posted in the top thread he titled "You'll want to read this!" on the "Questions and Answers" Forum quote:

"KEEP ANABOLIC STEROID CYCLES/PRO-HORMONE CYCLES AT 8 WEEKS!"

"Anabolics have been shown to work best for appoximately 8 weeks. After that point, additional muscle gains slow dramatically and you would need to use higher amounts drugs or supplements to advance further."

[lovbyts]

True, that is the NEW recommended optimal cycle length but I will still run mine 10 to get what I can out of it. The effects diminish after 8 weeks according to Ronnie BUT they dont stop...

[Bojangles69]

Ronnie can bite it.
"Dramatically"? I think hes just dramatic. I felt great till I stopped after week 12

[Bojangles69]

& WTf are his credentials? lol, seriously I think he just gets paid to write but may not also be the only authority on the subject. "Dramatically diminish" is to subjective a term w/out data which he doesnt provide. So hes basically just stating an opinion, not fact. Even if he had data its STILL not a fact.

[Bojangles69]

True, that is the NEW recommended optimal cycle length but I will still run mine 10 to get what I can out of it. The effects diminish after 8 weeks according to Ronnie BUT they dont stop...

this

[ranging1]

he reccomendeds 8 weeek cycle becuase generally most compounds are the most effective during this time, since the bodys receptors are most sensitive to steroids

u can know this just by taking 4 weeks of dbol to kickstart off ur cycle, weeks 1-3 u feel the dbol get stronger, but usually by week 4 people get use to the dbol pumps and the back pumps become less, this is becuase the bodys receptors are already becoming less sensitive by week 4

most people also notice their gains are best weeks 1 -6, some go to 8, most people after week 8 still gain but the rate they gain at is nowhere near what they did in the start due to the longer their on, the less sensitive the body is to effects of steroids

u can still gain after week 8, but most people if not all will find the gains taper off the longer their on a cycle, thats why alot increase their dosages towards the end, which isnt a good idea since ur giving urself more chance of side effects for minimal extra muscle gains since ur receptors have lost ALOT of their sensitivity

the longer u are on the also more prone to side effects u are, since ur not reaping the same level of muscle building effects of steroids, but still getting ALL if not more side effects

shorter cycles also allow a better HPTA recovery becuase the hpta is shutdown for a shorter time, allowing for easier recovery, the longer ur on a cycle the harder it is to recover from a cycle

however their are some compounds that should and usually need longer cycle lengths such as Deca nandralone ,since they are a longer acting ester, so their effects cant be felt till later in the cycle, this isnt bad becuase since its a longer acting ester it doesant have a huge effect on ur receptors in the start of a cycle since it hasnt built up in ur system yet

therefore it wont make ur receptors less sensitive early in the cycle, which is why i can be run longer and usually has to be run longer

cycle lengths can vary, alot of peole find 6 week cycles best, some find 8, some 12, some 16, it all depends on what u run, and how ur bodys growing, goals, not to mention ur diet and training

leaning cycles can usually be run longer then mass cycles since the steroid dosages are usually lower and since ur goal isnt to gain mass, u dont need to worry about ur bodys becoming less sensitive to steroids asmuch, since u dont need their full muscle building effect for the whole cycle, just their ability to protect muscle mass

[marcus300]

There is no set rule on how long a cycle should be, you need to try various cycle lengths to see which one you respond better to, over many years Ive tried many different dosages and cycle lengths and for me I know which I prefer for sides vs gains.

Being on cycle for many weeks doesn't mean bigger or more gains sometimes it means more sides and harder recovery, so finding out when your gains peak and when they start to deteriorate off is a good indication when the ideal length is for you.

Personally Ive always preferred shorter cycles linked to a prime, these give me excellent gains and faster recover ( thats when i was recovering, now on HRT) which is far better than putting your body under all that stress for a large number of weeks for the same kind of gains, understanding how you grow and using methods to enhance this will give you huge gains, its all a learning curve!

[stpete]

Minimum 12-14 weeks for me. I've never ran a 8 week cycle and don't plan on it. I read Ronnie's article a few weeks back and it make sense and i might try it one day, but right now i'm pleased with my current schedule.

[lovbyts]

My cycle has been for the last year+
Ohh yeah, that's HRT with a couple 10 weeks cycles in between

[Swifto]

I've done cycles as long as 16 weeks and oral cycles lasting 6 weeks.

Long esters need to be run for 10+ weeks. Enanthate "kicks in" for me around the 6-9 week mark. So stopping at 8 weeks is counterproductive.

Cycles should not be kept at "8 weeks". The ester, compounds and goals of the individual should determine the cycle length.

[Big]

I've done cycles as long as 16 weeks and oral cycles lasting 6 weeks.

Long esters need to be run for 10+ weeks. Enanthate "kicks in" for me around the 6-9 week mark. So stopping at 8 weeks is counterproductive.

Cycles should not be kept at "8 weeks". The ester, compounds and goals of the individual should determine the cycle length.

exactly.

[chuckt12345]

yea 8 wks or actually kick in time maybe if its a long ester
so you have to take it 4 wks prior to the 8

[Merc.]

I've done cycles as long as 16 weeks and oral cycles lasting 6 weeks.

Long esters need to be run for 10+ weeks. Enanthate "kicks in" for me around the 6-9 week mark. So stopping at 8 weeks is counterproductive.

Cycles should not be kept at "8 weeks". The ester, compounds and goals of the individual should determine the cycle length.

I Agree with you .. I have seen it over and over ^^^^ ...

But I must also say that when linked to a proper prime ( as Marcus stated) I have seen some peeps make some dam soild gains in 8-9 weeks ..


Merc.

[Merc.]

he reccomendeds 8 weeek cycle becuase generally most compounds are the most effective during this time, since the bodys receptors are most sensitive to steroids

u can know this just by taking 4 weeks of dbol to kickstart off ur cycle, weeks 1-3 u feel the dbol get stronger, but usually by week 4 people get use to the dbol pumps and the back pumps become less, this is becuase the bodys receptors are already becoming less sensitive by week 4

most people also notice their gains are best weeks 1 -6, some go to 8, most people after week 8 still gain but the rate they gain at is nowhere near what they did in the start due to the longer their on, the less sensitive the body is to effects of steroids

u can still gain after week 8, but most people if not all will find the gains taper off the longer their on a cycle, thats why alot increase their dosages towards the end, which isnt a good idea since ur giving urself more chance of side effects for minimal extra muscle gains since ur receptors have lost ALOT of their sensitivity

the longer u are on the also more prone to side effects u are, since ur not reaping the same level of muscle building effects of steroids, but still getting ALL if not more side effects

shorter cycles also allow a better HPTA recovery becuase the hpta is shutdown for a shorter time, allowing for easier recovery, the longer ur on a cycle the harder it is to recover from a cycle

however their are some compounds that should and usually need longer cycle lengths such as Deca nandralone ,since they are a longer acting ester, so their effects cant be felt till later in the cycle, this isnt bad becuase since its a longer acting ester it doesant have a huge effect on ur receptors in the start of a cycle since it hasnt built up in ur system yet

therefore it wont make ur receptors less sensitive early in the cycle, which is why i can be run longer and usually has to be run longer

cycle lengths can vary, alot of peole find 6 week cycles best, some find 8, some 12, some 16, it all depends on what u run, and how ur bodys growing, goals, not to mention ur diet and training

leaning cycles can usually be run longer then mass cycles since the steroid dosages are usually lower and since ur goal isnt to gain mass, u dont need to worry about ur bodys becoming less sensitive to steroids asmuch, since u dont need their full muscle building effect for the whole cycle, just their ability to protect muscle mass

Say Huh ???

My response in blue below ...

shorter cycles also allow a better HPTA recovery becuase the hpta is shutdown for a shorter time,

Depends on the compund ... 1 -100 mg shot of deca can shut you down ( HPTA) as where it can take serveral weeks for test to shut ya down .. Plus it can take a lot longer to recover from than test..



he reccomendeds 8 weeek cycle becuase generally most compounds are the most effective during this time, since the bodys receptors are most sensitive to steroids


Androgen receptors dont down regulate .. They actually increase in the presence of of more androgen's...

What shuts down growth is the build up of other reaction factors such as cortisol , glycogen and SHBG that brings the body back into homeostasis..



however their are some compounds that should and usually need longer cycle lengths such as Deca nandralone ,since they are a longer acting ester, so their effects cant be felt till later in the cycle, this isnt bad becuase since its a longer acting ester it doesant have a huge effect on ur receptors in the start of a cycle since it hasnt built up in ur system yet


Deca is a hard compound on HPTA ... Again 1 -100 mg shot of deca can shut you down ( HPTA) .. I mean shut you down ..

[ranging1]

Say Huh ???

My response in blue below ...

shorter cycles also allow a better HPTA recovery becuase the hpta is shutdown for a shorter time,

Depends on the compund ... 1 -100 mg shot of deca can shut you down ( HPTA) as where it can take serveral weeks for test to shut ya down .. Plus it can take a lot longer to recover from than test..

yes ur right, but what im refering to is the length of ANY CYCLE AND COMPOUND since runnning any compund for say 8-10 weeks would be less harsh on ur HPTA then 20 weeks, the applies ot any steroid

he reccomendeds 8 weeek cycle becuase generally most compounds are the most effective during this time, since the bodys receptors are most sensitive to steroids


Androgen receptors dont down regulate .. They actually increase in the presence of of more androgen's...

yes ur right, didnt mean to put receptors as the reason, other factors such as tolerance to glucose etc

What shuts down growth is the build up of other reaction factors such as cortisol , glycogen and SHBG that brings the body back into homeostasis..



however their are some compounds that should and usually need longer cycle lengths such as Deca nandralone ,since they are a longer acting ester, so their effects cant be felt till later in the cycle, this isnt bad becuase since its a longer acting ester it doesant have a huge effect on ur receptors in the start of a cycle since it hasnt built up in ur system yet


Deca is a hard compound on HPTA ... Again 1 -100 mg shot of deca can shut you down ( HPTA) .. I mean shut you down ..

i dont c how that related to my comment lol, u just repeated what u said above lol

MY RESPONSE IN RED

[in2shape]

so hearing these views why would 1 run var or winnie in week 8-12 leading into pct of a 10 week test cyp cycle ??? if gears deminishing etc???? is it the case that adding anothr compound is creating more gear in the system ????

or ????

views ???

[Swifto]

Say Huh ???

My response in blue below ...

shorter cycles also allow a better HPTA recovery becuase the hpta is shutdown for a shorter time,

Depends on the compund ... 1 -100 mg shot of deca can shut you down ( HPTA) as where it can take serveral weeks for test to shut ya down .. Plus it can take a lot longer to recover from than test..



he reccomendeds 8 weeek cycle becuase generally most compounds are the most effective during this time, since the bodys receptors are most sensitive to steroids


Androgen receptors dont down regulate .. They actually increase in the presence of of more androgen's...

What shuts down growth is the build up of other reaction factors such as cortisol , glycogen and SHBG that brings the body back into homeostasis..



however their are some compounds that should and usually need longer cycle lengths such as Deca nandralone ,since they are a longer acting ester, so their effects cant be felt till later in the cycle, this isnt bad becuase since its a longer acting ester it doesant have a huge effect on ur receptors in the start of a cycle since it hasnt built up in ur system yet


Deca is a hard compound on HPTA ... Again 1 -100 mg shot of deca can shut you down ( HPTA) .. I mean shut you down ..

Testosterone preperations will shut you down in days, not weeks my friend. After one 200mg shot of Test Enan in this study, this is what happend:

"Plasma concentrations of both LH and FSH decreased rapidly after the first TE injection; a significant decline in LH was detectable after 24 h. Mean levels of both gonadotropins decreased to less than 0.5 U/L by the end of 4 weeks and to below the limit of sensitivity of the assays (0.05 IU/L) by 12 weeks."

[Booz]

each to their own...

Personally 8 weeks of a longer ester unless it was a high dose shortburst cycle wouldnt be aby god for me,
as Swifty stated longer esters dont do nowt for me till week 6-9 either...............

[chuckt12345]

Testosterone preperations will shut you down in days, not weeks my friend. After one 200mg shot of Test Enan in this study, this is what happend:

"Plasma concentrations of both LH and FSH decreased rapidly after the first TE injection; a significant decline in LH was detectable after 24 h. Mean levels of both gonadotropins decreased to less than 0.5 U/L by the end of 4 weeks and to below the limit of sensitivity of the assays (0.05 IU/L) by 12 weeks."

umm that study says concentrations lower right away not shut down

[dd0316]

Someone said that longer cycles yield more side effects.
although i dont have a medical degree, id disagree with this.
The longer you are one, the longer your body has to adjust and return to homeostasis. I know many people that stay on cycle for a year, have zero sides, and come off and recover fine. Blood work to Prove it. And from what ive heard from them, around week 16-20, their body starts to steady out and although gains become less dramatic, they are consistent week by week with no side effects

[Swifto]

umm that study says concentrations lower right away not shut down

"Decreased rapidly..." and "Significant decline...", dont mean much else IMHO. I dont have the full paper to hand, but I may be able to get it free.

When LH and FSH decrease enough, even after 24hours, the testes are no longer being stimulated. Testicular dysfunction is then able to set in rapidly.

Testosterone preperations will reduce endogenous T to hypogondal levels in days, not weeks.

A 50mg Test Enan shot reduced LH by 65% and FSH 62% in this study.

If you have any other data, I'd like to read it.

[chuckt12345]

id say there suppresed right away but the term shut down wouldnt occur until much later

[Swifto]

id say there suppresed right away but the term shut down wouldnt occur until much later

When is the HPTA really "shutdown" though? Even on HRT, LH and FSH arnt zero.

"Shutdown" is a tricky term to use IMHO. In theory, ganadotrophins are never fully shutdown - zero. But the term shutdown IMHO, should be used when LH and FSH have been reduced enough, that testicular dysfunction will begin to set in. That is days, not after X amount of weeks.

I've showed that even after one single 50mg Test Enan shot, LH and FSH were reduced both by over 60%. You havent showed anything, bar speculating.

[Merc.]

Testosterone preperations will shut you down in days, not weeks my friend. After one 200mg shot of Test Enan in this study, this is what happend:

"Plasma concentrations of both LH and FSH decreased rapidly after the first TE injection; a significant decline in LH was detectable after 24 h. Mean levels of both gonadotropins decreased to less than 0.5 U/L by the end of 4 weeks and to below the limit of sensitivity of the assays (0.05 IU/L) by 12 weeks."

Man I miss the old days with these good debates .( which we can all learn from )..

Anyways keep in mind that about 50% of published articles on Pubmed are wrong ( I work in a lab and this number comes from some of the top Scientist we have working there ).. I will start a thread that has tons of info on determing if a study is legit or not..

So I am sure we could go back and forth on studies all day .. That said check out this one ..

Testosterone suppression of the HPT axis.MacIndoe JH, Perry PJ, Yates WR, Holman TL, Ellingrod VL, Scott SD.
Department of Psychiatry, College of Medicine, University of Iowa, Iowa City, USA.

BACKGROUND: Although studies have demonstrated the suppression of normal gonadal function in the experimental setting, the specific mechanisms by which androgenic -anabolic steroids impact male gonadal function remain ill defined. Following 2 consecutive weekly injections of an identically appearing testosterone cypionate (TC) placebo, subjects were randomized to a TC dose of 100 mg/wk, 250 mg/wk, or 500 mg/wk. Following the last weekly injection of active agent the subjects received 12 consecutive weeks of TC placebo injections. RESULTS: Spermatogenesis was impaired by each of the doses of TC employed in this study, but the observed decreases in, sperm count were neither strictly dose dependent nor consistent between individuals treated with the same dose. Basal leuteinizing hormone (LH) and follicle stimulating hormone (FSH) became undetectable 2 weeks after the start of 250 and 500 mg/wk TC injections and were lost within 5 to 6 weeks of starting 100 mg doses. Pituitary gonadotropin responses to leutinizing hormone releasing hormone (LHRH) disappeared more slowly with FSH responses being lost 1 to 3 weeks after the loss of basal FSH activity. Leuteinizing hormone responses to LHRH appeared to be suppressed last, disappearing 4 to 6 weeks after FSH responses to LHRH. CONCLUSIONS: Exogenous testosterone-mediated inhibitory influences on the hypothalamic-pituitary-testicular axis were reversed following the cessation of drug treatment.

PMID: 9394096 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE]..........



I didnt highlight any part of the study because I wanted you to read the whole thing ..

So this study states that one hundred mgs of test per week takes about 5-6 weeks to shut down HPTA... and 250-500mgs shuts you down by week two ..

Great Discussion Swifto ...




Merc.

[Merc.]

Here is a link to the thread I said I would start ( with some soild info on doing research )..


Methodology in medical research, learn how to better evaluate results

[hockeyguy]

Not sure if it matters but from my reading on the 8 weeks cycle is that you run it for 8 weeks and take a week or 2 off then right back at it for 8 weeks. So it's not like you are running for 8 weeks then done for a few months. I would think if your running a long ester for 8 weeks and take a week or 2 off to deload then back for 8 weeks you would get the benefit of the longer cycle.

[ranging1]

lol to merc and swifto, since were debating 8 week cycles, i dont think we need to worry about how long it takes a steroid to shut u down since almost all compunds by the 8th week wouldve shut u down lol

[Swifto]

Man I miss the old days with these good debates .( which we can all learn from )..

Anyways keep in mind that about 50% of published articles on Pubmed are wrong ( I work in a lab and this number comes from some of the top Scientist we have working there ).. I will start a thread that has tons of info on determing if a study is legit or not..

So I am sure we could go back and forth on studies all day .. That said check out this one ..

Testosterone suppression of the HPT axis.MacIndoe JH, Perry PJ, Yates WR, Holman TL, Ellingrod VL, Scott SD.
Department of Psychiatry, College of Medicine, University of Iowa, Iowa City, USA.

BACKGROUND: Although studies have demonstrated the suppression of normal gonadal function in the experimental setting, the specific mechanisms by which androgenic -anabolic steroids impact male gonadal function remain ill defined. Following 2 consecutive weekly injections of an identically appearing testosterone cypionate (TC) placebo, subjects were randomized to a TC dose of 100 mg/wk, 250 mg/wk, or 500 mg/wk. Following the last weekly injection of active agent the subjects received 12 consecutive weeks of TC placebo injections. RESULTS: Spermatogenesis was impaired by each of the doses of TC employed in this study, but the observed decreases in, sperm count were neither strictly dose dependent nor consistent between individuals treated with the same dose. Basal leuteinizing hormone (LH) and follicle stimulating hormone (FSH) became undetectable 2 weeks after the start of 250 and 500 mg/wk TC injections and were lost within 5 to 6 weeks of starting 100 mg doses. Pituitary gonadotropin responses to leutinizing hormone releasing hormone (LHRH) disappeared more slowly with FSH responses being lost 1 to 3 weeks after the loss of basal FSH activity. Leuteinizing hormone responses to LHRH appeared to be suppressed last, disappearing 4 to 6 weeks after FSH responses to LHRH. CONCLUSIONS: Exogenous testosterone-mediated inhibitory influences on the hypothalamic-pituitary-testicular axis were reversed following the cessation of drug treatment.

PMID: 9394096 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE]..........



I didnt highlight any part of the study because I wanted you to read the whole thing ..

So this study states that one hundred mgs of test per week takes about 5-6 weeks to shut down HPTA... and 250-500mgs shuts you down by week two ..

Great Discussion Swifto ...




Merc.

Great study Merc.

I'm going to get my old friend Dr. Crisler's take on this as some of the studies seem contradictory.

lol to merc and swifto, since were debating 8 week cycles, i dont think we need to worry about how long it takes a steroid to shut u down since almost all compunds by the 8th week wouldve shut u down lol

Agreed.

[in2shape]

so hearing these views why would 1 run var or winnie in week 8-12 leading into pct of a 10 week test cyp cycle ??? if gears deminishing etc???? is it the case that adding anothr compound is creating more gear in the system ????

or ????

views ???

great read here fellas any info on my Q above??

[Merc.]

lol to merc and swifto, since were debating 8 week cycles, i dont think we need to worry about how long it takes a steroid to shut u down since almost all compunds by the 8th week wouldve shut u down lol

Merc.

[Merc.]

I wanted to post this study also .. it is from PLoS Medicine.. ... It goes with what I said ( in a post above ) about lots of published studies begin wrong ..

It is too long to post the entire thing here, but it is a great read that I think you will find interesting... Here is the Abstract ( and I will post a link below the abstract so you can read the entire study ...

Why Most Published Research Findings Are False

Abstract

Summary
There is increasing concern that most current published research findings are false. The probability that a research claim is true may depend on study power and bias, the number of other studies on the same question, and, importantly, the ratio of true to no relationships among the relationships probed in each scientific field. In this framework, a research finding is less likely to be true when the studies conducted in a field are smaller; when effect sizes are smaller; when there is a greater number and lesser preselection of tested relationships; where there is greater flexibility in designs, definitions, outcomes, and analytical modes; when there is greater financial and other interest and prejudice; and when more teams are involved in a scientific field in chase of statistical significance. Simulations show that for most study designs and settings, it is more likely for a research claim to be false than true. Moreover, for many current scientific fields, claimed research findings may often be simply accurate measures of the prevailing bias. In this essay, I discuss the implications of these problems for the conduct and interpretation of research.

Citation: Ioannidis JPA (2005) Why Most Published Research Findings Are False. PLoS Med 2(8): e124. doi:10.1371/journal.pmed.0020124


http://www.plosmedicine.org/article/...l.pmed.0020124


Merc.

[redz]

I find the most dramatic gains come later in cycles. I have never had gains drop off even in 14 week cycles. I plan on going slightly longer next time to test the waters but there is out right no way I would run long estered compounds for only 8 weeks.

[Merc.]

great read here fellas any info on my Q above??

Some peeps like using a DHT based compound like winny ( in the last part of their cycle) because it's effects on SHBG ..



Merc.

[jackman22]

Depends on what your taking really. Theres a big differance between test susp then EQ for example wich imo should be taken for at least 12 weeks u to 16 weeks. Remember everyone is different.

[Merc.]

I find the most dramatic gains come later in cycles. I have never had gains drop off even in 14 week cycles. I plan on going slightly longer next time to test the waters but there is out right no way I would run long estered compounds for only 8 weeks.

Redz I also see most of my gains later in a cycle also...



Merc.

[Ronnie Rowland]

I think some have misunderstood what Slingshot Training is all about.

For now I want to say this-" If you want to get as big as humanly possible then there's no need in going off steroids . You heard me right! The 8 week reload is not a standard 8 week cycle as some have interpreted but rather one long continuance cycle that stops only when you discontinue making any gains. This long cycle is called a blast and it consist of reloading and deloading."

When you go off steroids for a lengthy period of time (for example time off = time off) you will lose a lot of your gains and go back to just above what you could have obtained naturally. I do not believe in set time frames in regards to reducing training volume and anabolic dosages. A 1-2 week deload is only going to make you stronger and pack on more muscle. I think some are forgetting that the long acting esters are still present during a deload. In addition, the reduction in protein actually helps the body store more protein-hence more muscle mass!

When going for maximum mass you go off all steroids with Slingshot Training during a 2 week prime to allow receptors to clear and catabolic hormormone ( cortisol , myostatin levels, etc decline. You'll know when to prime because all progress will come to a grinding halt. I think some have got the deload mixed up with the prime.

I'll explain more later.

[in2shape]

Some peeps like using a DHT based compound like winny ( in the last part of their cycle) because it's effects on SHBG ..




Merc.

and what about var ??? help tighten me up as test leaves sytem ???

thx 4 reply

[Ronnie Rowland]

& WTf are his credentials? lol, seriously I think he just gets paid to write but may not also be the only authority on the subject. "Dramatically diminish" is to subjective a term w/out data which he doesnt provide. So hes basically just stating an opinion, not fact. Even if he had data its STILL not a fact.

Wow..It's nice to see you know so much about me...lol

1) I am not being paid anything to write on this site.

2) I have been working at various gyms over the past 24 years. I help train over 90% of the big guys at my gyms. Why do they come to me for advice? It's because I have 24 years of experience experience, I practive what I preach and I look the part. I'm not some ghost writer sitting behind a computer terminal. I'm not afraid to show my face!

3) I am not the only person on here with ideas. We vets work as a team and give out the best advice we can. No one is going to agree 100% on everythnig including us vets. If you disagree with Slingshot Training them by all means don't practice it.