22yo with too much natural test levels

[noexcuses88]

I went to the doctor a couple of days ago with a couple of problems. I was feeling weak and excessively tired once I got off my animal cuts. Also I was concerned why I retained so much bf with consistent cardio and wieghts and diet (lift 4X/week cardio 5x/week).

So I got a test and thyroid test done. Thyroid tests came back normal but the test levels were at 1084 which is concerning my doctor.

He said optimal range at most shouldn't exceed 800

I was wondering what could have caused this. He was speaking along the lines of it being a tumor on my testis.

Anyone know whats going on with me.

[CaliPhotog]

Just wait for your doctor to do the worm for you man. You don't want. To be guessing or self diagnosing. You did the smart thing and went to get tests done at the Dr. rather than just tryig to figure it out on your own. If it is a tumor then you probably caught it early enough to get it taken care of. Please update us when you find out what is going on. BTW I didn't think that your symptoms sounded like things that you would experience because of elevated test levels.

[zaggahamma]

there are some testosterone reference ranges that go to 1200...i've never heard this 1084 level to be too high or even unhealthy....it is proven that men with higher test levels live longer

[Big]

he thinks 800 is the upper range for a 22 year old male?
I'd consider a new doctor.
http://men.webmd.com/testosterone-15738?page=2

[peachfuzz]

ya sounds to me like you have a case of being a 22 year old. doesnt sound excessivley high to me. just follow through with whatever your doc asks.

[BG]

How long have you been off?

[peachfuzz]

How long have you been off?

the product he was on was an OTC fat burner...

[noexcuses88]

he thinks 800 is the upper range for a 22 year old male?
I'd consider a new doctor.
http://men.webmd.com/testosterone-15738?page=2

That definitely helps. He is a D.O. so naturally he took a affinity into my case. I didnt know the deviation was that high for 22 yr olds.

I wonder where he got his figures from. He actually was about to send me to an endocrinologist.

ya sounds to me like you have a case of being a 22 year old. doesnt sound excessivley high to me. just follow through with whatever your doc asks.

I still am definitely going to follow through just in case.

BTW I didn't think that your symptoms sounded like things that you would experience because of elevated test levels.

That was exactly what I was thinking. And I thought it should be extremely easy for me to have/maintain a low bf with that much natural test going through my body.

[Paul_Best]

I might be missing some thing here but I dont see what the problem is I would be stoked if my levels were that high naturaly..

[TITANIUM]

I went to the doctor a couple of days ago with a couple of problems. I was feeling weak and excessively tired once I got off my animal cuts. Also I was concerned why I retained so much bf with consistent cardio and wieghts and diet (lift 4X/week cardio 5x/week).

So I got a test and thyroid test done. Thyroid tests came back normal but the test levels were at 1084 which is concerning my doctor.

He said optimal range at most shouldn't exceed 800

I was wondering what could have caused this. He was speaking along the lines of it being a tumor on my testis.

Anyone know whats going on with me.

I'm at 227 looking at TRT.

I wish I had that number in my corner.

Best

T

[Paul_Best]

302 here just had my bloodwork done again Thurs waiting on the results to see where im at on my trt.

[Merc.]

Might wanna read this article .... I highlight some parts for you .. Pretty interesting ..



Testosterone and the Masters of the Universe, by Maryanne Garry


Why is it that women are rarely seen picking fights at a bar, trying to bench press more than they can handle safely, or driving lost yet refusing to ask for directions? Most of the time, we are told, this kind of behavior occurs because men are really concerned about protecting their standing among other men. Moreover, men are lekkers. Leks are places (small universes) where male animals gather to show off, not only to other men, but primarily to women. You go to the lek to display your pretty peacock feathers so you can get lucky. In short, if you’re a man, you can’t afford to be weak, wimpy, or lost. When something threatens your standing—your place among the other peacocks—then you must act against it. Men, then, act to maintain their standing as Masters of the Universe.

If this idea is true, then men should also act against psychological threats to their status. But what about women? Women? Why, we women bench what we can handle, and always with crisp form; we leave the house with clear and complete directions for where we are going. We pull into the petrol station at the first sign that we are lost. What should women do in response to a psychological status threat?

Josephs et al. (2003) explain that although scientists have found high-T men are more likely to preserve and enhance their status compared to lower T men, most scientists have simply assumed that the same relationship would not hold among women—who, of course, are very low-T compared to most men. But, the authors argue, there is already research suggesting that status-maintaining behaviors (for example, not showing appeasement) occur more among high-T women than low-T women. Thus, despite what you might hear from women’s groups who call themselves “womyn’s groups” to separate themselves from the “men” in “women”, folk singer Holly Near’s idea that women are a “peaceful gentle people” is unsupported by the research. Clearly, some women would slap their sisters into next Tuesday before they’d hold hands and sing with them at a socialist rally.

The relationship between status and sex is what Josephs and his colleagues investigated in a set of experiments I'll describe below. The twist is that these researchers examined status and sex effects not on social behaviors, but on academic performance. They also speculated that the real relationships would not be between status and sex per se, but between status and testosterone . More specifically, if you expect to do well in something (to achieve high status), then if you’re a high-T person, you should perform more of the behaviors that make you do well. But if you expect not to do well (low status), then if you’re a high-T person, you’ll perform more of the behaviors that make you do badly. As the authors put it, testosterone is a behavioral amplifier.

Josephs and his colleagues found some men and women who said their math ability mattered to them and measured their T-levels before the study started. Then, they (secretly) put each sex into two groups, High and Low, based on a split around median (middle) T levels within each sex.

In their first experiment, there were two phases, [1] a manipulation phase in which some subjects were made anxious about their math ability, and [2] a math test.

In the first phase, half the subjects (Control subjects) responded to questions about their college experiences (whether they found it rewarding, or had an idea about their major, etc.). The other half (Primed subjects) responded to questions about their experiences with gender stereotypes and math performance (“I think that some people feel I have less math ability because of my gender”). These questions were designed to have no effect on either high-T or low-T men (because there is no stereotype that men are bad at math), to have some effect on low-T women, and to really wind up the high-T women. Because T is a behavioral amplifier, the nervousness women already tend to have about math performance should cause primed high-T women to have massive performance anxiety, which should in turn translate into poor math scores.In the second phase, everybody tried to solve a bunch of math problems from the GRE. They also reported how nervous they were, because if the math questions worked the way they were supposed to, they should have no effect on men’s nervousness, prime low-T women’s nervousness somewhat, and prime high-T women’s nervousness the most.

What did the researchers find? First, the manipulation worked: the primed women were more nervous than primed men during the math test, and primed high-T women were more nervous than both control high-T women, and primed low-T women. But did this increased anxiety translate into poorer math performance? In a word, yes. The primed high-T women did worse on the math test than all the other women. On the whole men did better than women, and SAT scores and high school math background don’t account for the pattern of results.

In Experiment 2, the authors turned the stereotype threat on its head. Instead of targeting women’s stereotypes, they targeted men. Of course, men have a stereotype for math performance, in that they expect they will do well. Josephs et al. gave a math test to a group of men, but first told half of them that the test would identify the “weak ability” men, and told the other half that the test would identify the “exceptional ability” men. Now, because men tend to think that they are pretty good at math, they think the likelihood they might perform weakly on a math test is low. As a result, neither high-T nor low T-men should perceive a threat to their status. By contrast, when there is a chance to be identified as a Master of the Math Universe, high-T men want to be there. Thus, the authors. reasoned, high-T men in the “exceptional ability” (but not the “weak ability”) condition would work extra hard on the math test, and do better than everyone else. Put another way, their high-T would amplify their “working hard” behaviors more than their low-T counterparts.

That is indeed what they found. When they thought the math test provided them with a real challenge (the “exceptional ability” condition), high-T men picked up the gauntlet and outperformed the low-T men. They also skipped fewer questions than the low-T men, more evidence that they tried to rack up as many points as they could. But when they thought the test was probably a cakewalk (in the “weak ability” condition) high-T men didn’t do any better than the low-T men. In fact, there was a tendency for them to do worse, although they didn’t skip any more questions than the low-T men did.

There are a number of things you can you take away from this research, but there are two that might be particularly interesting to us JB.com people. First, these results might explain why, contrary to public opinion, there seems to be an overrepresentation of academic high achievers among weightlifters. Simply put, high T-people do everything in their power to excel and this translates to the gym and to the classroom.In addition, because it’s likely that women who are new to weightlifting have some anxiety about being in the gym, if a high-T woman’s ability, relative to men, is threatened, her performance might suffer. For example, a pinhead personal trainer who tells a high-T woman that women should train differently from men because of some limitation that women have inherent to their gender, may actually cause her to underperform—or worse, stop training. After all, high T-women underperform when status is threatened.

(Editor’s note: Of course, feelings and inclinations are often uncontrollable but behavior is often a choice. While understanding how our physiology is linked to our behavior is intriguing, we’re not slaves to our physiology unless we choose to be).

References Josephs, R.A., Newman, M. L, Brown, R. P., & Beer, J. M. (2003). Status, testosterone, and human intellectual performance: stereotype threat as status concern. Psychological Science, 14, 158-162.

[Merc.]

Also I copy and pasted this from my bloodwork sticky

http://forums.steroid.com/showthread.php?t=254423 Test levels are towards the bottom ( of the article ).. Keep in mind some labs have different reference ranges they go by


Nomal range, total Testosterone :

Male

Age 14
<1200 ng/dl

Age 15-16
100-1200 ng/dl

Age 17-18
300-1200 ng/dl

Age 19-40
300-950 ng/dl

Over 40
240-950 ng/dl

Female

Age 17-18
20-120 ng/dl

Over 18
20-80 ng/dl



If you are concrened definitely go to the Endocronglist ( that your doc wants to send you too ).. He will be much more knowlagable than the doc your seeing now ..



Merc.

[zaggahamma]

Also I copy and pasted this from my bloodwork sticky

http://forums.steroid.com/showthread.php?t=254423 Test levels are towards the bottom ( of the article ).. Keep in mind some labs have different reference ranges they go by


Nomal range, total Testosterone :

Male

Age 14
<1200 ng/dl

Age 15-16
100-1200 ng/dl

Age 17-18
300-1200 ng/dl

Age 19-40
300-950 ng/dl

Over 40
240-950 ng/dl

Female

Age 17-18
20-120 ng/dl

Over 18
20-80 ng/dl



If you are concrened definitely go to the Endocronglist ( that your doc wants to send you too ).. He will be much more knowlagable than the doc your seeing now ..



Merc.

see 1200 i was right

[TITANIUM]

Might wanna read this article .... I highlight some parts for you .. Pretty interesting ..



Testosterone and the Masters of the Universe, by Maryanne Garry


Why is it that women are rarely seen picking fights at a bar, trying to bench press more than they can handle safely, or driving lost yet refusing to ask for directions? Most of the time, we are told, this kind of behavior occurs because men are really concerned about protecting their standing among other men. Moreover, men are lekkers. Leks are places (small universes) where male animals gather to show off, not only to other men, but primarily to women. You go to the lek to display your pretty peacock feathers so you can get lucky. In short, if you’re a man, you can’t afford to be weak, wimpy, or lost. When something threatens your standing—your place among the other peacocks—then you must act against it. Men, then, act to maintain their standing as Masters of the Universe.

If this idea is true, then men should also act against psychological threats to their status. But what about women? Women? Why, we women bench what we can handle, and always with crisp form; we leave the house with clear and complete directions for where we are going. We pull into the petrol station at the first sign that we are lost. What should women do in response to a psychological status threat?

Josephs et al. (2003) explain that although scientists have found high-T men are more likely to preserve and enhance their status compared to lower T men, most scientists have simply assumed that the same relationship would not hold among women—who, of course, are very low-T compared to most men. But, the authors argue, there is already research suggesting that status-maintaining behaviors (for example, not showing appeasement) occur more among high-T women than low-T women. Thus, despite what you might hear from women’s groups who call themselves “womyn’s groups” to separate themselves from the “men” in “women”, folk singer Holly Near’s idea that women are a “peaceful gentle people” is unsupported by the research. Clearly, some women would slap their sisters into next Tuesday before they’d hold hands and sing with them at a socialist rally.

The relationship between status and sex is what Josephs and his colleagues investigated in a set of experiments I'll describe below. The twist is that these researchers examined status and sex effects not on social behaviors, but on academic performance. They also speculated that the real relationships would not be between status and sex per se, but between status and testosterone . More specifically, if you expect to do well in something (to achieve high status), then if you’re a high-T person, you should perform more of the behaviors that make you do well. But if you expect not to do well (low status), then if you’re a high-T person, you’ll perform more of the behaviors that make you do badly. As the authors put it, testosterone is a behavioral amplifier.

Josephs and his colleagues found some men and women who said their math ability mattered to them and measured their T-levels before the study started. Then, they (secretly) put each sex into two groups, High and Low, based on a split around median (middle) T levels within each sex.

In their first experiment, there were two phases, [1] a manipulation phase in which some subjects were made anxious about their math ability, and [2] a math test.

In the first phase, half the subjects (Control subjects) responded to questions about their college experiences (whether they found it rewarding, or had an idea about their major, etc.). The other half (Primed subjects) responded to questions about their experiences with gender stereotypes and math performance (“I think that some people feel I have less math ability because of my gender”). These questions were designed to have no effect on either high-T or low-T men (because there is no stereotype that men are bad at math), to have some effect on low-T women, and to really wind up the high-T women. Because T is a behavioral amplifier, the nervousness women already tend to have about math performance should cause primed high-T women to have massive performance anxiety, which should in turn translate into poor math scores.In the second phase, everybody tried to solve a bunch of math problems from the GRE. They also reported how nervous they were, because if the math questions worked the way they were supposed to, they should have no effect on men’s nervousness, prime low-T women’s nervousness somewhat, and prime high-T women’s nervousness the most.

What did the researchers find? First, the manipulation worked: the primed women were more nervous than primed men during the math test, and primed high-T women were more nervous than both control high-T women, and primed low-T women. But did this increased anxiety translate into poorer math performance? In a word, yes. The primed high-T women did worse on the math test than all the other women. On the whole men did better than women, and SAT scores and high school math background don’t account for the pattern of results.

In Experiment 2, the authors turned the stereotype threat on its head. Instead of targeting women’s stereotypes, they targeted men. Of course, men have a stereotype for math performance, in that they expect they will do well. Josephs et al. gave a math test to a group of men, but first told half of them that the test would identify the “weak ability” men, and told the other half that the test would identify the “exceptional ability” men. Now, because men tend to think that they are pretty good at math, they think the likelihood they might perform weakly on a math test is low. As a result, neither high-T nor low T-men should perceive a threat to their status. By contrast, when there is a chance to be identified as a Master of the Math Universe, high-T men want to be there. Thus, the authors. reasoned, high-T men in the “exceptional ability” (but not the “weak ability”) condition would work extra hard on the math test, and do better than everyone else. Put another way, their high-T would amplify their “working hard” behaviors more than their low-T counterparts.

That is indeed what they found. When they thought the math test provided them with a real challenge (the “exceptional ability” condition), high-T men picked up the gauntlet and outperformed the low-T men. They also skipped fewer questions than the low-T men, more evidence that they tried to rack up as many points as they could. But when they thought the test was probably a cakewalk (in the “weak ability” condition) high-T men didn’t do any better than the low-T men. In fact, there was a tendency for them to do worse, although they didn’t skip any more questions than the low-T men did.

There are a number of things you can you take away from this research, but there are two that might be particularly interesting to us JB.com people. First, these results might explain why, contrary to public opinion, there seems to be an overrepresentation of academic high achievers among weightlifters. Simply put, high T-people do everything in their power to excel and this translates to the gym and to the classroom.In addition, because it’s likely that women who are new to weightlifting have some anxiety about being in the gym, if a high-T woman’s ability, relative to men, is threatened, her performance might suffer. For example, a pinhead personal trainer who tells a high-T woman that women should train differently from men because of some limitation that women have inherent to their gender, may actually cause her to underperform—or worse, stop training. After all, high T-women underperform when status is threatened.

(Editor’s note: Of course, feelings and inclinations are often uncontrollable but behavior is often a choice. While understanding how our physiology is linked to our behavior is intriguing, we’re not slaves to our physiology unless we choose to be).

References Josephs, R.A., Newman, M. L, Brown, R. P., & Beer, J. M. (2003). Status, testosterone, and human intellectual performance: stereotype threat as status concern. Psychological Science, 14, 158-162.

Excellent as usual MERC.

This explains why everything seems in the tank for me lately.

Thanks for the read.

Best

T

[noexcuses88]

Thanks MERC! Nice case study. You guys put me at ease. Especially since a huge chunk of my family was eradicated by various forms of cancer.

That article defined multiple aspect of my life. Especially why I am a hyperkinetic.

Good to know I got something going for me

Maybe I gotta hit up the diet forum again. lol

[anabolictonic]

maybe you dont have much free test tho?? that would give you the symptoms you described wouldnt it?

[Merc.]

What up Titanium and Noexcuses .. Yea I just thought that was a kinda intrestering read .....



Merc.

[james21]

Also I copy and pasted this from my bloodwork sticky

http://forums.steroid.com/showthread.php?t=254423 Test levels are towards the bottom ( of the article ).. Keep in mind some labs have different reference ranges they go by


Nomal range, total Testosterone :

Male

Age 14
<1200 ng/dl

Age 15-16
100-1200 ng/dl

Age 17-18
300-1200 ng/dl

Age 19-40
300-950 ng/dl

Over 40
240-950 ng/dl

Female

Age 17-18
20-120 ng/dl

Over 18
20-80 ng/dl



If you are concrened definitely go to the Endocronglist ( that your doc wants to send you too ).. He will be much more knowlagable than the doc your seeing now ..



Merc.

There are also studies of males going up in testosterone until they reach their 40's

[Merc.]

There are also studies of males going up in testosterone until they reach their 40's

I have also seen some studies that show/suggest that men who train with weights ( and are 100 % natural ) have lower test levels .. but from what I have briefly researched on it there is nothing conclusive on this though...





Merc.

[zaggahamma]

I have also seen some studies that show/suggest that men who train with weights ( and are 100 % natural ) have lower test levels .. but from what I have briefly researched on it there is nothing conclusive on this though...




Merc.

wonder wut the theory behind that is

[noexcuses88]

I have also seen some studies that show/suggest that men who train with weights ( and are 100 % natural ) have lower test levels .. but from what I have briefly researched on it there is nothing conclusive on this though...





Merc.

There was a study done in the University of mexico. I bolded some of the important details.


Hormonal Responses to Resistance Exercise Variables
Luis M. Alvidrez and Len Kravitz, Ph.D.

Introduction:
Exercise places a major challenge on the body due to the increased energy needs and physiological demands put upon the body's nervous, muscular, cardiovascular, metabolic and respiratory systems. As a body goes through these responses and subsequent adaptations to exercise, there are a number of complex hormonal interactions occurring simultaneously. For example, hormones can increase blood pressure, stimulate protein synthesis, and increase the body's metabolic rate. With resistance training variables, several hormonal responses and consequent adaptations which have been observed will be reviewed in this article.

Hormones '101': The Basics
Hormones, secreted by endocrine (hormone secreting) glands in the body, are substances that regulate the function of body cells, tissues, organs or systems. Hormones are released from a number of 'traditional' glands, such as the pituitary, testes, ovaries, pancreas, thyroid and the adrenal cortex. More recently, science has also documented hormone secretion from 'non-traditional' sites such as the heart, kidney, liver, and adipose tissue. In reference to gender, the major differences in male and female endocrinology (the study of the hormone secreting glands) come down to the differing reproductive structures (testes versus ovaries). Males produce high levels of testosterone whereas females have higher levels of estrogen and progesterone, and lower levels of testosterone when compared to males.

Hormone Function in Resistance Exercise: Energy Production
With resistance exercise there is an immediate increase in epinephrine and norepinephrine (Kraemer and Ratamess, 2005). These hormones increase blood glucose and are important for increasing force production, muscle contraction rate, and energy production (i.e., the synthesis of ATP-the energy currency of cells). These hormones actually begin to rise prior to the resistance training workout (Kraemer and Ratamess, 2005). This is an anticipatory response of the body preparing for the challenging exercise to follow. Interestingly, the elevated blood glucose levels do not typically lead to an increase in insulin unless protein/carbohydrate supplementation precedes the workout (Kraemer and Ratamess, 2005). The increased uptake of blood glucose by the skeletal muscle is occurring due to the increase in function of the cell's glucose transporters, which increase glucose uptake and thus glucose metabolism in the muscle cell. Thus, regular resistance exercise training has been shown to increase 'insulin sensitivity', meaning the body can intake and utilize glucose more effectively (Pollock et al., 2000).
Practical Application: Energy Production
During resistance exercise there is a cascade of events that leads to an increase in several hormones that very specifically help deliver needed glucose for energy production to the working muscle cells.

Hormone Function in Resistance Exercise: Volume of Training
In resistance exercise, total volume is easily calculated by the number of reps x sets x weight that is performed in either a single session of resistance exercise or during a long-term resistance training program. Marx et al. (2001) examined the long term training (6-month training regime) adaptations associated with a low-volume (circuit) resistance training program versus a periodized high-volume resistance program in college-aged women. The study showed that the periodized higher volume resistance program had higher testosterone, insulin-like growth factor-1, and decreased levels of cortisol after the 24 weeks of training when compared to the circuit program. Greater increases in muscular strength, power, and speed were also seen in the high-volume group.
Smilios et al. (2003) examined the acute effects of the number of sets on testosterone, cortisol, and growth hormone responses after maximum strength (5 reps at 88% of 1RM, 3-min rest) and muscular hypertrophy (10 reps at 75% of 1RM, 3-min rest) protocols with 2, 4 and 6 sets of each exercise in 11 physically active (2-8 years resistance training experience) young men. Subjects also did a strength endurance (15 reps at 60% of 1RM, 1-min rest) protocol with 2 and 4 sets. In the muscular strength protocol, the number of sets did not affect the hormonal profile. In the muscular hypertrophy and strength endurance protocol, there was an increase in cortisol and growth hormone levels in four sets of exercise versus two sets. In this study, there was no significant increase in testosterone in any of the testing conditions. Contrariwise, Kramer and Ratamess (2005) summarize that protocols high in volume do tend to produce acute hormonal elevations in testosterone, as well as cortisol, and growth hormone.
Practical Application: Volume of Training
Acute and chronic research shows that higher-volume resistance programs tend to elicit the greatest hormonal responses.

Hormone Function in Resistance Exercise: Training to Failure versus Non-Failure
In a unique recent study, Izquierdo et al. (2006) examined hormonal responses in an 11-week resistance training to failure (one group) vs. non-failure (second group) followed by an identical (both groups) 5-week peaking period of maximal strength and power protocol. Subjects were 42 physically active males randomly assigned to the two groups. The results showed that 11 weeks of training to failure and not-to-failure resulted in similar gains in 1RM strength, muscle power output of the arm and leg extensor muscles, and maximal number of repetitions in the squat. However, after the identical 5-week peaking period of maximal strength and power training, the non-failure group showed greater increases in strength, power, resting testosterone levels, and reduced coritsol levels when compared to the failure group. The failure group did have a greater increase in muscular endurance in bench press repetitions and a decrease in insulin-like growth factor 1 (IGF-1), a muscle building hormone.
Practical Application: Training to Failure versus Non-Failure
Taking each set to failure may not be as an important factor as once felt when trying to increase muscular strength, power, and hormonal response for clients. By taking each set to failure, a trainer may actually make clients more susceptible to overtraining and decreased hormonal and muscle power adaptations.

Hormone Function in Resistance Exercise: Rest Period
In a recent study, Ahtiainen et al. (2005) examined a shorter rest period (2 minutes) in comparison to a longer rest period (5 minutes) in a 6-month long strength training protocol (2 heavy resistance training loading sessions per week for the lower body) with 13 recreationally trained men. Workout volume (reps x sets x weight) was equated for the two groups. It was shown that there were no differences between strength, mass, or hormonal profile (testosterone, cortisol, and growth hormone) in either the short versus the long rest periods in this 24-week study.
Practical Application: Rest Period
From a time perspective, trainers are always working to create the most time-efficient workouts for their busy clients. Previous research (Kraemer et al. 1990) suggested that a shorter rest period (one minute versus three minutes) elicited slightly higher acute hormonal responses; however, this newer 6-month study suggests no significant hormonal difference between the 2-minute versus 5-minute rest period on strength, mass, and hormone elevations.

Hormone Function in Resistance Exercise: Concentric versus Eccentric Training
During conventional resistance exercise, there is a sequential concentric and eccentric muscle action. In training adaptations and hormonal responses, concentric muscle actions produced a greater amount of growth hormone when compared to an eccentric muscle action (Durand et al., 2003). Durand and colleagues compared both the concentric and eccentric muscle actions with the same absolute load. However, when compared using a relative load, both concentric and eccentric muscle actions produced similar growth hormone and testosterone responses (Kraemer et al., 2006).
Practical Application: Concentric versus Eccentric Training
From the hormonal response perspective, trainers are encouraged to vary resistance training schemes to incorporate and emphasize concentric and eccentric training protocols.

Hormone Function in Resistance Exercise: Forced versus Maximum Repetitions
Forced repetitions are a popular method for adding intensity to any resistance exercise program. To perform a forced repetition requires the person to perform repetitions after the person has gone to failure. This type of training requires the assistance of a trainer (or workout partner). Maximum repetitions is synonymous with training to failure. Ahtiainen et al. (2004) investigated the hormonal responses of forced repetitions versus maximal repetitions in experienced strength athletes compared to nonathletes. Although the hormonal (testosterone, growth hormone, cortisol) increased similarly with both training loads (in both groups), the testosterone increases in the experiences weightlifters were significantly greater as compared to the maximal repetitions protocol.
Practical Application: Forces versus Maximum Repetitions
Training clients to take sets to and beyond failure should be used in moderation. As previously stated, always taking each set to failure can have negative effects on strength, power, and hormone responses (Izquierdo et al., 2006). Then again, it appears that the more trained the client, the greater the muscle developing hormonal response when forced repetitions are periodically incorporated.

Hormone Function in Resistance Exercise: Final Considerations
Resistance exercise has been shown to dramatically affect acute hormonal responses in the body after training. These responses play a huge role not only in immediate tissue remodeling and growth, but as well as to long term strength, power, and hypertrophy gains. Resistance exercise protocols that stress large muscle mass (multi-joint exercises), are high in volume, and moderate to high intensity, tend to produce the greatest hormonal elevations for optimal muscular fitness benefits (Kraemer et al., 2005).

Bios:
Luis M. Alvidrez and is currently in the master's program in exercise science at the University of New Mexico (UNMA). Luis owns a personal training company called “Upward Motion Personal Training” which specializes in corrective exercise and lifestyle management. His research interests are functional training, hormonal responses to exercise, exercise physiology, and lifestyle management.

Len Kravitz, Ph.D., is the Program Coordinator of Exercise Science and Researcher at the University of New Mexico where he recently won the "Outstanding Teacher of the Year" award. Len was honored with the 1999 Canadian Fitness Professional “International Presenter of the Year” and the 2006 Canadian Fitness Professional “Specialty Presenter of the Year” awards and chosen as the American Council on Exercise 2006 "Fitness Educator of the Year”.

References

Ahtiainen, J.P., Pakarinen, A., Alen, M., Kraemer, W.J., and Hakkinen, K. (2005).
Short vs. long rest period between the sets in hypertrophic resistance training: influence on muscle strength, size, and hormonal adaptations in trained men. Journal of Strength and Conditioning Research, 19 (3), 572-82.

Ahtiainen, J.P., Pakarinen, A., Kraemer, W.J., and Hakkinen, K. (2004) Acute hormonal responses to heavy resistance exercise in strength athletes versus nonathletes.
Canadian Journal of Applied Physiology. 29 (5), 527-43.

Durand, R.J., Castracane, V.D., Hollander, D.B., Tryniecki, J.L., Bamman, M.M., O'Neal, S., Hebert, E.P., and Kraemer, R.R. (2003). Hormonal responses from concentric and eccentric muscle contractions. Medicine and Science in Sports and Exercise, 35 (6), 937-943.

Izquierdo, M., Ibanez, J., Gonzalez-Badillo, J.J., Hakkinen, K., Ratamess, N.A., Kraemer, W.J., French, D.N., Eslava, J., Altadill, A., Asiain, X., and Gorostiaga, E.M. (2006). Differential effects of strength training leading to failure versus not to failure on hormonal responses, strength, and muscle power gains. Journal of Applied Physiology, 100 (5), 1647-1656.

Kraemer, R.R., Hollander, D.B., Reeves, G.V., Francois, M., Ramadan, Z.G., Meeker, B., Tryniecki, J.L., Hebert, E.P., and Castracane, V.D. (2006) Similar hormonal responses to concentric and eccentric muscle actions using relative loading. European Journal of Applied Physiology, 96 (5), 551-557.

Kraemer, W.J., and Ratamess, N.A. (2005) Hormonal responses and adaptations to resistance exercise and training. Sports Medicine, 35, (4), 339-61

Kraemer, W.J., Marchitelli, L., Gordon, S.E., Harman, E., Dziados, J.E., Mello, R., Frykman, P., McCurry, D., and Fleck, S.J. (1990). Hormonal and growth factor responses to heavy resistance exercise protocols. Journal of Applied Physiology. 69(4):1442-1450.

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[noexcuses88]

also, a more concise version of a couple of more studies studies.

Some research studies have shown that it is possible to increase your testosterone level by exercising. For example, in one study Schwab et al. (1993) measured the testosterone level in 2 groups of male study participants to obtain their baseline level. Then they had both groups perform four sets of six squats. One group of men did their squats using heavy weights and the other group of men performed their squats using light weights. After both groups of men were finished doing their squats, Schwab et al. remeasured their testosterone levels . They found that testosterone levels were increased from the baseline in both sets of men, regardless of whether or not the had used heavy or light weights. However, 10 minutes after the men were through exercising their testosterone levels dropped back to the baseline level.

In other study, Vogel et al. (1985) found that men who rode a stationary bike for 15 minutes had an increase in their testosterone levels from baseline. No information was available for how long testosterone levels were raised.



In a more recent study, Marin et al. (2006) found that exercise also increased testosterone levels in men. Men who participated in this study had their testosterone level tested prior to exercising and then again after performing lat pulls, bench presses, leg curls, leg extensions, leg presses, and military presses. Immediately after exercising the mens' testosterone levels were significantly raised, but then dropped back to baseline levels after 20 minutes had passed.

From the studies described above it appears that exercising may increase testosterone levels, but that increased testosterone levels drop back to baseline levels shortly after the exercise is over.

[Merc.]

wonder wut the theory behind that is

It is based off this study .. It is really long but very interesting ...


THE USE OF ENDOCRINE MARKERS TO PREDICT
AND MONITOR PERFORMANCE
IN STRENGH AND POWER ACTIVITIES



http://etd.lsu.edu/docs/available/et...winchester.pdf


Also I believe Dharkam did a pretty interesting article about it ..



Merc.

[Merc.]

also, a more concise version of a couple of more studies studies.

Some research studies have shown that it is possible to increase your testosterone level by exercising. For example, in one study Schwab et al. (1993) measured the testosterone level in 2 groups of male study participants to obtain their baseline level. Then they had both groups perform four sets of six squats. One group of men did their squats using heavy weights and the other group of men performed their squats using light weights. After both groups of men were finished doing their squats, Schwab et al. remeasured their testosterone levels . They found that testosterone levels were increased from the baseline in both sets of men, regardless of whether or not the had used heavy or light weights. However, 10 minutes after the men were through exercising their testosterone levels dropped back to the baseline level.

In other study, Vogel et al. (1985) found that men who rode a stationary bike for 15 minutes had an increase in their testosterone levels from baseline. No information was available for how long testosterone levels were raised.



In a more recent study, Marin et al. (2006) found that exercise also increased testosterone levels in men. Men who participated in this study had their testosterone level tested prior to exercising and then again after performing lat pulls, bench presses, leg curls, leg extensions, leg presses, and military presses. Immediately after exercising the mens' testosterone levels were significantly raised, but then dropped back to baseline levels after 20 minutes had passed.

From the studies described above it appears that exercising may increase testosterone levels, but that increased testosterone levels drop back to baseline levels shortly after the exercise is over.

Yea I have read this before ... I am a researcher ( like do it for a living.. I work in a lab )..

Like I said it is not conclusive and studies do go back and forth .. Also If you like reading studies here is a thread I did about how to verify if a medical study is valid .. Heres the link if you wanna check it out man ( lots of good info )...

http://forums.steroid.com/showthread.php?t=405145



Merc.

[Merc.]

Here is the article by Dharkam that I was referring to in my above post .....


Is bodybuilding good for your testosterone?


In bodybuilding, we are told that our workouts should not last more than 45 minutes! Why? Because past this 45 minute limit, our testosterone production is supposed to fall. No one seems to criticize this statement which is, in fact, a very stupid one.

I have weight-trained for 25 years without any major injury. One of the reason for this is that I warm up extensively. In winter, it is not rare that I need 45 minutes to get fully warmed up prior to my first heavy set. What should I do? Stop right after my warm up because I am already beyond the 45 minute limit?


We also know that a post-training supplementation high in both proteins and carbohydrates negatively influences our testosterone levels . Yet, everybody recommends it despite this inhibitory effect. So, we limit your workout volume to preserve our testosterone. Yet, we gladly impair its output right after the workout with a high protein / high carb feeding? Go figure!

Hypogonadism and natural bodybuilding

If bodybuilding is such a good testosterone booster , why do so many seasoned lifters suffer from a very low testosterone level? And I am not talking about former steroid users only. Are they all overtrained? The answer is no. The fact is, long term bodybuilding may not be that good for your endogenous testosterone production.

If you look at the scientific research measuring testosterone output after an intense workout, you will find that some studies show an increase. Others fail to demonstrate any effect on testosterone output. Also, some studies report a reduction in testosterone. So, the testosterone response to a workout is very hard to predict. But I can clearly see a trend: the more advanced you are, the less likely your are to respond positively.

Lactate as a powerful endocrine stimulator

There is a very interesting study that sums up those various trends. Sprinters ran 400 meters as fast as possible. The run lasted around 45 to 50 seconds. This is very interesting because this is how long a normal bodybuilding set lasts. Among these sprinters, some were of Olympic caliber with around 8 years of training. Others were not so advanced with only 4 years of practice under their belt. The elite sprinters produced the most effort in the least amount of time (45 s). Their blood lactic acid concentration increased 1100%. The less advanced sprinters cover the 400 m in 48 s. As their efforts were less intense, their blood lactic acid level increased only 800%. Because of those strong lactic acid elevations, one would expect testosterone level to increase. During an intense effort, the lactate from the lactic acid is supposed to be a very powerful endocrine stimulator.

As a result of this intense run, the luteneizing hormone (LH) level (the hormone triggering the testosterone release):

almost doubled (+ 100%) in ALL the elite sprinters;
in the less advanced runners, LH concentration raised only 25%. It increased in most runners of this group but decreased in a minority of them.
Normally, a LH elevation is associated with an increase in testosterone production. This is what we see in the less advanced runners with a 27% increase in total testosterone and a 60% increase in free testosterone. No matter how their LH responded, ALL of them experienced an elevation in blood testosterone.

45 seconds are enough to reduce your testosterone concentration!

The testosterone response in the elite athletes is far more interesting. Despite the very robust LH elevation, ALL of them experienced a decrease in testosterone output. Total and free testosterone decreased 11% and 26%, respectively. So much for the 45 min limit beyond which testosterone might start to decrease. We see in this study that in advanced athletes, an all out effort of 45 seconds is enough to decrease testosterone. This acute effort produced a long lasting negative effect. It took the sprinters 24 h to have their testosterone level back to normal.

Would steroid usage explain this strange phenomenon? I do not think so as their baseline testosterone, LH and follicle-stimulating hormone (FSH) [another testosterone stimulating hormone] levels were normal before the 400 meter run.

Testicular Exhaustion - Explanation for this Unexpected Response?

The answer to the paradox of having a strong LH elevation and negative testosterone response is simple. The testes of these advanced athletes are "exhausted". Their constant stimulation ends up having a very negative impact on their capacity to manufacture androgens.

In this study, this exhaustion occurred after only 8 years of training. Basal testosterone is not affected, yet. Subjects were still pretty young (25 year old), too. With more training years and as you get older, basal testosterone production is likely to suffer, too. I think this exhaustion explains why so many advanced (natural) bodybuilders end up having low levels of androgens or end up producing no testosterone at all.

An accelerated form of aging?

Note that the free (bio-available) testosterone is the most affected in both groups. It increased the most in the least experienced athletes compared to total testosterone. It decreased the most in the elite group. In that, it resembles to an accelerated form of aging. As we age, the production of the proteins that bind testosterone increases 1% every year. If our testosterone output decline yearly, our free portion is the most negatively affected.

What are the consequences bodybuilding training and testicular exhaustion?

The ‘testicular exhaustion’ is a factor one should take into account when planning his bodybuilding career. When you thing about it, the future does not look very bright. Up to the age of 25, I could tell that a workout, especially a leg workout, was increasing my testosterone level. More than 10 years later, such a feelable kick is very, very rare.

Unless you want to become a pro bodybuilders, I would not recommend starting using steroids before reaching this exhaustion stage.
Low calorie diets are obviously not a good thing for your testosterone output. This is why I am against the bulking up phase, especially for natural bodybuilders. Overfeeding is not a very strong stimulator for your testosterone production. On the other hand, underfeeding is a potent inhibitor of testosterone output. After several years of bulking up, a severe diet might precipitate this testes exhaustion.
The new logic of the aging bodybuilder

Statistical studies suggest that muscles can still grow despite a low testosterone output. In fact, muscles growth is more closely related to testosterone receptor density than testosterone level. This indirect finding suggests that testosterone receptors can self activate in the absence of testosterone if muscular contractions are intense enough. But in extreme case of exhaustion, testosterone replacement therapy (TRT) might be the only solution.

Reference

Slowinska-Lisowska M, Majda J. Hormone plasma levels from pituitary-gonadal axis in performance athletes after the 400 m run. J Sports Med Phys Fitness. 2002 Jun;42(2):243-9.


Merc.