How much strength loss is normal after cycle ends?

**xephonics** · 11-07-2009, 04:38 PM

I'm probably just having a bad day and over reacting, but my 12 week test E cycle ended on oct 30th, and tonight my back night SUCKED, my DL weights and reps were horrid.

I'm curious if it is normal to lose a lot of strength after a cycle, or do you keep most of it after? (I thought I read strength is more likely to stay than mass, but I dont know how true that was)

**the big 1** · 11-07-2009, 04:46 PM

mass and strength tie into one and another, if you lose mass ule probably lose strength, and vice versa.

**cavtrooper26** · 11-07-2009, 05:04 PM

I could be wrong but I would think the enth would still be in your body at this point. Could it be a mental thing where you expect to lose so you do?

**dec11** · 11-07-2009, 05:10 PM

Originally Posted by the big 1

mass and strength tie into one and another, if you lose mass ule probably lose strength, and vice versa.

mass isnt an indicator of strength

**cavtrooper26** · 11-07-2009, 05:14 PM

Originally Posted by declan11

mass isnt an indicator of strength

Are you sure? I think there is a max amount of weight that a specific amount of muscle can move. I wouldn't even care to guess the actual numbers but it seems like 24" guns are going to lift more that 18" guns.

**syd-bloke** · 11-07-2009, 05:14 PM

low carb day? lol

**TITANIUM** · 11-07-2009, 05:17 PM

Originally Posted by xephonics

I'm probably just having a bad day and over reacting, but my 12 week test E cycle ended on oct 30th, and tonight my back night SUCKED, my DL weights and reps were horrid.

I'm curious if it is normal to lose a lot of strength after a cycle, or do you keep most of it after? (I thought I read strength is more likely to stay than mass, but I dont know how true that was)

This is normal, as they are, in effect, dependent on one another.

It depends on your cycle, age, ect...

The faster your natty test comes back into play, the better.

Some days are just "OFF" days.

Could be just that.

Some guys keep alot of it, some, not so much.

Watch your diet, and back off a bit on the training.

(I do this through pct, and it works best for myself).

Best

T

**dec11** · 11-07-2009, 05:41 PM

Originally Posted by cavtrooper26

Are you sure? I think there is a max amount of weight that a specific amount of muscle can move. I wouldn't even care to guess the actual numbers but it seems like 24" guns are going to lift more that 18" guns.

yep im sure mate, seen too many big bb'ers getn theyre asses whipped at p'lift comps by guys half their size plus its alot to do with motor skills and fibre recruitment within the body

**Exilus** · 11-07-2009, 05:55 PM

My obese friend has 22 " guns yet he can barely lift 20 lbs

**big_k** · 11-07-2009, 06:00 PM

Originally Posted by Exilus

My obese friend has 22 " guns yet he can barely lift 20 lbs

those are called fatceps

I've actually retained most of my strength gains from my cycle, and I've increased them natty after that.

**Exilus** · 11-07-2009, 06:15 PM

Originally Posted by big_k

those are called fatceps

I've actually retained most of my strength gains from my cycle, and I've increased them natty after that.

what were you running?

**the big 1** · 11-08-2009, 05:35 AM

Originally Posted by declan11

mass isnt an indicator of strength

Correct you are. that said, someone with more muscle mass is gonna lift more than somone with less.
I know what you mean though, just because somone wieghs more, doesnt mean there stronger. Fat mass must be taken into acount.

**Okinawa_Power** · 11-08-2009, 07:37 AM

My strength went up during PCT.....Don't ask me how but it did....Had my best lifts during PCT....****ing strange......

**big_k** · 11-08-2009, 08:44 AM

Originally Posted by Exilus

what were you running?

test e 500mg/week for 12

**gymnerd** · 11-08-2009, 09:43 AM

Yeah you will loose strength, how much depends on diet and training and PCT. One other thing I would like to add is I believe it also depends on the natural base you have built up over the years. I have noticed a guy with a very strong natural base will loose strength very slowly over time where as someone who jumps on juice right away will loose most of it very quickly just my observation.

**redz** · 11-08-2009, 10:09 AM

Are you sure? I think there is a max amount of weight that a specific amount of muscle can move. I wouldn't even care to guess the actual numbers but it seems like 24" guns are going to lift more that 18" guns.

Even if the first part of what you were saying were right which I don`t think it is. 24" arms on a short tiny guy vs 22" arms on a tall guy I'd bet the tall guy was stronger.

**Vitruvian-Man** · 11-08-2009, 10:41 AM

Originally Posted by redz

Even if the first part of what you were saying were right which I don`t think it is. 24" arms on a short tiny guy vs 22" arms on a tall guy I'd bet the tall guy was stronger.

not in all areas...

I'd probably give bench press to the shorter guy. (less range of movement, so more reps.)

**big_k** · 11-08-2009, 12:31 PM

Originally Posted by Vitruvian-Man

not in all areas...

I'd probably give bench press to the shorter guy. (less range of movement, so more reps.)

Its a matter of Biomechanics

In most exercises the guy with shorter limbs will have a shorter moment arm therefore his muscles have to produce less newton force in order to move the same weight, whereas for the guy with longer limbs the opposite is true.

**xephonics** · 11-08-2009, 05:17 PM

I'm taking HCG , and my pct is planned out, so getting my hormone levels back in check should not be a problem.

I also plan on shortening my workouts during pct to roughly 30 mins (so probably a really intense 2-3 workouts)

My diet im basically keeping the same as i was on cycle.

I'm thinking I'll take a small strength hit, but will hopefully gain it back soon.

**caladin** · 11-08-2009, 05:55 PM

I have been off for 2 months and have lost no strength.

**rtgrs** · 11-08-2009, 06:00 PM

you are going to lose a bit of strength after you get off just make sure you have a good pc and keep your protien and cal intake up thats what i do

**dd0316** · 11-08-2009, 07:16 PM

my strength is abck and is more than when i was on cycle

**alpmaster** · 11-08-2009, 07:31 PM

Originally Posted by declan11

yep im sure mate, seen too many big bb'ers getn theyre asses whipped at p'lift comps by guys half their size plus its alot to do with motor skills and fibre recruitment within the body

It's somewhat true, but it is more in depth and you cannot compare two different types of training. The fact still remains size does matter for strength, use you're same PLing analogy, now who lifts more, a 200lb powerlifter, or a 300 pound powerlifter?

**ranging1** · 11-09-2009, 01:46 AM

i just finsihed my 500mg cycle of test eth

some of my lifts went down by a few reps or 1-5kg during PCT

now PCT is over and my strength has returned back to what it was at the peak of my cycle

hope that helps

**nilrac** · 11-09-2009, 07:49 AM

Yeah, it comes down to many factors. Size, type of muscle fibers, training regime. If you are training as a powerlifter, you want explosive power, which denotes fewer repetitions. If you are a bodybuilder, you are trying to build mass. Totally different kind of training.

In terms of the size, weight argument... gotta take strongmen into account as well!

In terms of this thread, I would say losing some strength during PCT would be normal. Though it always comes back to that old chesnut... everybody is different

.

**Dumbass** · 11-09-2009, 08:58 AM

It's realy hard not to lose strength when you lose estrogen. Water is strength, and no matter how hard you train and eat you won't bloat like you do on 500 mg's of test. Tough if you did adex (or other aromatase inhibitor) during cycle strength loss is far less.

**dec11** · 11-09-2009, 12:34 PM

Originally Posted by alpmaster

It's somewhat true, but it is more in depth and you cannot compare two different types of training. The fact still remains size does matter for strength, use you're same PLing analogy, now who lifts more, a 200lb powerlifter, or a 300 pound powerlifter?

the comparsion between a 75kg p'lifter d lifting 280 in comparison with a 100kg bb'er deading only 230kg is a very stark comparison and youre wrong in your example, lighter guys regularily out lift heavier guys

**Jasongu9999** · 11-11-2009, 12:28 AM

I ended the same cycle November 4th, and was wondering the same thing. It was my first. Keep me posted on strength increase/decreases xeno. I'll be interested to see how you react.

**darkcrayz** · 11-11-2009, 02:13 AM

Originally Posted by declan11

yep im sure mate, seen too many big bb'ers getn theyre asses whipped at p'lift comps by guys half their size plus its alot to do with motor skills and fibre recruitment within the body

i agree and disagree. you cant look at the population as a whole and say more muscle = more strength because as you point out its not always an indicator.

however. you take an athlete that weighs in at 198 and then he spends time bulking to 220 and keeping his motor skills at recruitment on point he will lift more weight. thus the original argument more size does equate to more strength with all else being equal.

**BJJ** · 11-11-2009, 04:22 AM

Originally Posted by xephonics

I'm probably just having a bad day and over reacting, but my 12 week test E cycle ended on oct 30th, and tonight my back night SUCKED, my DL weights and reps were horrid.

I'm curious if it is normal to lose a lot of strength after a cycle, or do you keep most of it after? (I thought I read strength is more likely to stay than mass, but I dont know how true that was)

Originally Posted by the big 1

mass and strength tie into one and another, if you lose mass ule probably lose strength, and vice versa.

Originally Posted by declan11

mass isnt an indicator of strength

This is something I have written in another thread related to strength where the question was:
"Possibe to gain muscle without strength?"

This is not a question one can answer in just a few words.
There are many implications to consider. For example:

Anatomical factors considering the strength of the muscolar contractions which is different among human beings, especially among users natural and unnatural.
Such increase of vigour above all is due to a hypertrophy of the muscle, particularly of its crossbeam section (4-10 kg/Sq.cm, so 1,8-4,5 lbs/Sq.feet), even though from recent studies it seems that such increase of the muscular mass is not due only to a hypertrophy of the miofibrille, but also to a hyperplasia (increase of the cells).
Another importanti topic not to forget is the tendinous insertion, which we divide in proximal and distal respectively those that attach itself on the most static bony part and those that attach itself on the most flexible and motile bony part. The last mentioned ones can present some genetic differences between a subject and another, and this is an important factor in the expression of the strength or its potential ductility in a work-out.
To equality of lifted load, increasing the distance between the distal insertion and the fulcrum, one will need less strenght to lift the same load. So to equality of crossbeam section it will be stronger a muscle that presents the distal insertion more distant from the fulcrum lever.
Least but not last we have to talk about fibers percentage. Our muscles are constituted from two muscular types of fibers: the pale fibers (2a-2b) and the red fibers (type 1). This structural characterization is genetic predetermination and it seems not possible to be changed. The 2b are characterized from strong and swift contractions and are little resisting to the work prolonged in time; the fibers 1 are characterized from weaker and slow contractions but they are excellent resistant in a prolonged period of time. At last exist the intermediate fibers 2a which are a mix between the 2b and the 1. They seem to be the modifiable part of the fibers; trainings aimed on the force or speed seem to adapt these intermediate fibers to a very like function to that of the fibers 2b, vice versa trainings aimed on the resistance favor the adaptation in direction of those red of type 1. So, the muscular contraction strenght is proportional to the percentage of fibers present 2b in the skeletal muscle.
Furthermore, we should not forget the important role of the nervous factors with intramuscular and intermuscular coordination plus the sensitivity of the Golgi organs (receptors located between muscle and tendon). And what about the principles of the training load, concept of load, individualization of load, alternation of load and progressiveness of load.
As said before too many concepts and principles to write about! and this is becoming verbose...

So, to answer quickly to your question, I believe YES, it can happen.
The lean mass increase is not directly proportional to the strength increase.

So, I agree with declan11.