First Cycle! Unique Questions.

[armydude1]

Hi, I'm new to this board, I've learned so much from reading through the archives of this board, and was impressed at how most all of my questions had been asked already, and answered well. However I still have a few questions, that are seemingly specific to my own personal interests and goals, that I have not found answers for.

I will begin by telling a bit about my self and my goals

I am 22, 5'10" and 160lbs. Believe it or not, I am the biggest male in my family. Well my brother is taller...but twiggy if you ever saw one. I wasnt always the biggest though, I've spent maybe the past 6 years busting my ass in the gym. The first 4 years I seriously gained about 20. I was also fairly ignorant. After a bit of research (I was quite frustrated) I found that my problem was diet. I studied quite a bit about nutrition and diets ect. and instantly packed on more wieght. I was very excited. But the gains were not steady. I plateued. Beat it. Plateaued again. All said, I've gained another 20lbs in the past 2 years. I've been in a rut for the past 6 months. Tried everything. Eating more is out, I simply cannot eat more, and mind you, I am using protein/weight gainer shakes+boost supp drinks. Creatine has been a vet in my supps list. Jack3d for the past 6months (thought maybe i needed an extra kick). Cals in the bpark or 35-40k, all clean.

My goals are far from "GET HUGE!" I dont want to be a giant. I dont even want to be over 200lbs. I mean my goals may change in the future, but I am setting realistic goals for myself, based on my bodies response to excersize and diet. I aim for 180-190lbs, and I dont NEED it to happen over night. Which brings me to my main question. I've done some research on AAS, I am no where near an authority on it and this is why I am here. I AM LOOKING FOR TOTALLY NON BIAS SUGGESTIONS, PREFERABLY FROM A VERY EXPERIENCED USER, OR MOD/VET. What works for you may not work for me. I am looking for "in general" responses that can be applied to my goals. Thank you.

My questions go like this:

1.There are many choices of AAS, I would like one that has minimal side effects/toxicity, while still giving me good gains. I am acne prone, and would not like to increase my chances. For this reason Ive steered toward orals, which in turn have threats to the liver. What is the smartest path? Factor in liver support. Do not factor B5 into this unless you can provide support that it is a viable and proven acne treatment. Ive seen mixed reviews.

2.I am prepared to take a lower dosage if that will deter side effects. But only if it will not effect my gains too much. I understand that the less I take, the less I'll gain, but is there a 'minimum' where taking it will become useless. For example. If I take 20% less than the minimum suggested dose, will I get 20% less side effects. On the other hand, will I get a 20% reduction in my growth rate, or worse.

3.There are also many choices for ancillaries. Some even with sides like acne (clomid). Which has the best reputation, and is most used? Or what are some popular and effective PCT stacks. I've heard of a few, but to fit my goals, some of the suggested might not be neccessary for me, where I might end up taking less of an AAS dose.

This is all I will post for now. This is long enough. Thank you for your help, and if you could a suggested AAS/PCT stack (including liver support or any extras you want to throw in) for 1 cycle would be freakin awesome. Dont worry about giving me suggested cycle lengths, I can figure that out, unless of course your suggestion is other than basic, more like a hint or tip from an experienced user to a newb. Im trying to be as 'un' ignorant as I can by doing my own research. (I've read how yall react to newbs who know nothing asking about gear, lol. brutal.)

anyway thanks.

[*El Diablo*]

in general ur still too young and something is not right with ur Diet. Ur 5"10 and weigh 160lb's. Post ur diet in the diet forum, get that in check and work ur ass off in gym.
Thats most info ull get from here

[gsxracer]

You're where I was about 4 months ago, and I a little diet, and change in my workout routine got me about 10-15 pounds,

I was actually 5'11, 22 at 169 pounds, got it to 186 in about 4 months of constant training and ingesting 5k calories,

mostly its due to you're diet that you're not gaining if you're a hard gainer you might need to get 180-200g of proteins in you, and focus on more fats then carbs,

like nuts, fish(saulmon), flash seed oil, banana, peanut butter, ect...

but this will take 5-6 months to accomplish and steady hardwork, which no matter you'll need to get before jumping into AAS because you need food to build muscle even if you take gear.

and for you're side affects, most people don't get any symptons on there first cycle, for acne, go to the tanning bed, for liver issues get milk twistles,

there a first cycle thread on the forum somewhere which is best for starters,

[armydude1]

I understand your resort to diet issues, but i assure you that my diet is fine. I've read all through the nutrition forums on several forums. I've become quite the nutrition nut actually.

I've read here and there about genetic potential? Do you think that it is possible that I've reached it, I mean, I AM the biggest guy in my family. Cousins included. Maybe I'm not supposed to be bigger than this. My frame is narrow, shoulders arent narrow, but average. My joints are small, head is small, ribcage, ect. Maybe I'm just a small guy, no matter how hard I work and how well I eat. My training is good too. I've done many 'tried and true' work outs, I'm currently doing the 'German Volume Training' thing. I've done crossfit, and a few other generalized workouts. Ive done high rep, mid and low training. I know how my body responds best. I need to run a very intense program, involving me working a specific muscle group using compound lifts for 30-45 mins with 60-90 seconds rest between sets, and no more than 4 sets per excersize. I finish off the day with isolations of each muscle involved in the compound lifts. Example, say I start off with bench. I am employing my pecs, delts, and tris mostly. I will do 3-4 sets of flat, incline, decline, and dips, then isolate my pecs, delts and tris to finish off my workouts. If i have energy left I do what I call busters, where I take a low weight and rep it till failure, about 40 or so reps, or start with a high weight till failure, lower 20lbs, go to fail, lower, fail, lower, fail, lower fail, lower, till I no longer fail quickly, then I raise the weight gradually till I can not do a single rep, then I go down again. No rest. This usually secures a great workout for me, and leaves me feeling like my muscles will rip out of my skin. And my recovery is usually 1-2 days, rarely 3. But still gains have stopped. Im running 700 more cals than I need for maintennance. eating 2xmy body weight in grams of protien, and plenty of carbs.

[D7M]

I understand your resort to diet issues, but i assure you that my diet is fine. I've read all through the nutrition forums on several forums. I've become quite the nutrition nut actually.

Out of curiosity, what's your daily diet look like?

[armydude1]

and for you're side affects, most people don't get any symptons on there first cycle, for acne, go to the tanning bed, for liver issues get milk twistles,

tanning bed? no shit. milk twistles? do you mean thistle?

yea read it. as well as many others. but AAS is a ficle topic to get into. A lot of knowledge is required. And you cant ask an article questions. So thats why I eventually joined.

[LeroyB]

Out of curiosity, what's your daily diet look like?

I was also wondering what your TDEE so I did this. This is figuring 5 + days in the gym hard!
You BMR (1802.2) + lvl 4 out 5 for activity rate = a TDEE (Total Daily Energy Expenditure)is: 3108.
So you should be intaking over 3500 a day. Should be easy.
If you are then you are gaining wieght - long as your diet is in check like you say and your macros (percent of food is Protien / Carbs / Fat) are ok.

You should be along the same line as me I am bulking at a 10% increase.
These would be my macros per day below.
Total Grams - 757.78
Total Calories - 3520
Prot Grams - 353
Carb Grams - 308
Fat Grams - 97.78
----------------------------------------------------
Post your macros and diet as we can go from there.
Diet is your problem.

[armydude1]

Out of curiosity, what's your daily diet look like?

My diet itself varies quite a bit, as far as the foods that I eat daily, as I get tired of repetitious meals and I am fortunate to have a wife who cooks. (i can cook meat, pasta...cereal...bout it. i **** everything else up. haha) But GENERALLY speaking it goes something like this

Meal 1: Bran cereal, some have nuts and oats or real fruit in them. I hate eggs, but I supp for the protein with 2 boosts. 2-4 slices of peanutbutter wheat toast, or rasin bread, bagel or english muffin (no sugar).

9:00: Snack of Baked beans, dinner left overs, peanuts/cashews, fruits or sandwhich (whole wheat) (peanutbutter, tuna or sandwich meats, ect)

10:00: Creatine, Jack3d
10:30: Work out
11:30: Protein/Weight gainer shake (whole milk)
Lunch: Dinner leftovers, or meal consisting of dinner foods. (Meat, sweet potatoes, veggie, pasta ect.)

2:00: See 9:00

Dinner: Meat, sweet potatoes, veggie. Heafty servings.

Between supper and bed: Small meal (a bit of dinner left overs, maybe my wife cooked a small side meal, or a separate meal-half that night, other half next day), sometimes a snack in addition, always protein/weight gainer shake in whole milk. Bed at 9:00 and Up at 6:30

If anything irregular happens to my daily diet, like i miss a meal, or snack, or I eat something that I dont normally eat, then I bust out the calculator, and figure out where I have lacked, and supplement accordingly. Example. I have the day off and the wife wants to go out. I dont bring any food and I forget my wallet, I have enough cash for her to eat but I pretend Im not hungry so she can eat. When we get home, I will make up for it, by eating a heafty meal, and supping my cals and protein every few hours (as to not waste them by taking all at once) until bed.

[armydude1]

I was also wondering what your TDEE so I did this. This is figuring 5 + days in the gym hard!
You BMR (1802.2) + lvl 4 out 5 for activity rate = a TDEE (Total Daily Energy Expenditure)is: 3108.
So you should be intaking over 3500 a day. Should be easy.
If you are then you are gaining wieght - long as your diet is in check like you say and your macros (percent of food is Protien / Carbs / Fat) are ok.

You should be along the same line as me I am bulking at a 10% increase.
These would be my macros per day below.
Total Grams - 757.78
Total Calories - 3520
Prot Grams - 353
Carb Grams - 308
Fat Grams - 97.78
----------------------------------------------------
Post your macros and diet as we can go from there.
Diet is your problem.

actualy I can tell without calcing, what you got there is pretty ****in close to mine. But I take in more protein. Maybe its needless, but I read about X% of the protein you take in is wasted. So I eat a little more. In effect I then eat more cals as well. Most days im in the 4k


ALSO AN EDIT TO MY DIET POST!!!!
I DRINK PLENTY OF WATER THROUGHOUT THE DAY, MAYBE CLOSE TO A GALLON, IN ADDITION TO BOOST, SHAKES, FRUIT JUICES (100%) AND MILK.

[LeroyB]

actualy I can tell without calcing, what you got there is pretty ****in close to mine. But I take in more protein. Maybe its needless, but I read about X% of the protein you take in is wasted. So I eat a little more. In effect I then eat more cals as well. Most days im in the 4k


ALSO AN EDIT TO MY DIET POST!!!!
I DRINK PLENTY OF WATER THROUGHOUT THE DAY, MAYBE CLOSE TO A GALLON, IN ADDITION TO BOOST, SHAKES, FRUIT JUICES (100%) AND MILK.

Based on what I read about your diet its a nightmare brother. If you take AAS on that diet you will be very sad man. So lets get that strait. Head over to the diet section and post up in there that you need help with your diet and quick breakdown what you eat. I will look for your post, as will others, and get you going on the right path.
Its all very simply really so don't worry.
Cheers!

[**TOP**]

I understand your resort to diet issues, but i assure you that my diet is fine. I've read all through the nutrition forums on several forums. I've become quite the nutrition nut actually.

I've read here and there about genetic potential? Do you think that it is possible that I've reached it, I mean, I AM the biggest guy in my family. Cousins included. Maybe I'm not supposed to be bigger than this. My frame is narrow, shoulders arent narrow, but average. My joints are small, head is small, ribcage, ect. Maybe I'm just a small guy, no matter how hard I work and how well I eat. My training is good too. I've done many 'tried and true' work outs, I'm currently doing the 'German Volume Training' thing. I've done crossfit, and a few other generalized workouts. Ive done high rep, mid and low training. I know how my body responds best. I need to run a very intense program, involving me working a specific muscle group using compound lifts for 30-45 mins with 60-90 seconds rest between sets, and no more than 4 sets per excersize. I finish off the day with isolations of each muscle involved in the compound lifts. Example, say I start off with bench. I am employing my pecs, delts, and tris mostly. I will do 3-4 sets of flat, incline, decline, and dips, then isolate my pecs, delts and tris to finish off my workouts. If i have energy left I do what I call busters, where I take a low weight and rep it till failure, about 40 or so reps, or start with a high weight till failure, lower 20lbs, go to fail, lower, fail, lower, fail, lower fail, lower, till I no longer fail quickly, then I raise the weight gradually till I can not do a single rep, then I go down again. No rest. This usually secures a great workout for me, and leaves me feeling like my muscles will rip out of my skin. And my recovery is usually 1-2 days, rarely 3. But still gains have stopped. Im running 700 more cals than I need for maintennance. eating 2xmy body weight in grams of protien, and plenty of carbs.

This phrase right here is a red flag,everytime someone speaks this poopoo follows!! my friend you need to stop asking about AAS questions and start asking questions to your true dilemma DIET. Yours is horrible and with some help it could take you further than any cycle you ever try to do! Come over to the diet forum and ill help you out....TOP

[gsxracer]

everyone says that their diet is in top condition but 98.9% of the time it's horrible.

so like I said earlier change your diet and you'll make plenty of gain within 6 months, if you want it quicker then that change your diet and jump on the AAS.

[**TOP**]

everyone says that their diet is in top condition but 98.9% of the time it's horrible.

so like I said earlier change your diet and you'll make plenty of gain within 6 months, if you want it quicker then that change your diet and jump on the AAS.

I dont agree that he even needs to be on AAS!


Army ,You can take your AAS and ill take my diet and ill walk all over your ass on stage everytime! Diet is more imoportant than steroids period!!

[RANA]

Bad news, your diet does suck. Everyone says they have a great diet then they post it and we realize they lack everything!!!!
My wife cooks? If you're that serious about getting size make the meals you need but from what I read you are not even close to an ok diet
Please go to the diet section!

[-Ender-]

x2 man. Head to the diet section, you have no idea.

[chuckt12345]

I dont agree that he even needs to be on AAS!


Army ,You can take your AAS and ill take my diet and ill walk all over your ass on stage everytime! Diet is more imoportant than steroids period!!

well if yall genetics are the same ill put my money on army everytime and twice on sundays. Sorry but i disagree with diet over steroids . If thats the case this would be a diet bored and there would be no need for aas.

[**TOP**]

well if yall genetics are the same ill put my money on army everytime and twice on sundays. Sorry but i disagree with diet over steroids. If thats the case this would be a diet bored and there would be no need for aas.

So you mean to tell me you believe that with his AAS a NO DIET WHATSOEVER and him naturally with an excellent diet worked to perfection you beleive the AAS guy would defeat on stage, WTF ARE YOU SMOKIN????????????
Diet dictates where the body goes,Diet also dictates how well your AAS do also!
Also i guess we can do away with the diet section seeing how its a waste and everyone should just use AAS to meet there goals and rely on fruit loops and hot pockets!

70% DIET/ 25%TRAINING/ 5% GEAR!

[chuckt12345]

So you mean to tell me you believe that with his AAS a NO DIET WHATSOEVER and him naturally with an excellent diet worked to perfection you beleive the AAS guy would defeat on stage, WTF ARE YOU SMOKIN????????????
Diet dictates where the body goes,Diet also dictates how well your AAS do also!
Also i guess we can do away with the diet section seeing how its a waste and everyone should just use AAS to meet there goals and rely on fruit loops and hot pockets!

70% DIET/ 25%TRAINING/ 5% GEAR!

wow i disagree with you and you lose it?
GENETICS blow diet out the fukn water so yes i believe joe blow with a average/decent diet using AAS would beat the same guy with a perfect diet away.

So why would anyone ever use AAS if diet is so KING. Just raise your macro percents and you should just keep gaining at that rate right? I mean thats what your tellin me

[**TOP**]

wow i disagree with you and you lose it?Im not losing it..LOL GENETICS blow diet out the fukn water so yes i believe joe blow with a average/decent diet using AAS would beat the same guy with a perfect diet away. #1 he has no average descent diet/#2have you ever competed on stage?
So why would anyone ever use AAS if diet is so KING. Just raise your macro percents and you should just keep gaining at that rate right? I mean thats what your tellin me

I never said that! Diet is the foundation that AAS is laid upon. So you are saying gear first then training then diet?

Also if diet were not that big of a deal then why is everyone telling him to visit the diet section??

[**TOP**]

We may have to agree to disagree chuck.

[chuckt12345]

1) my comment wasnt really about this particular guy,, it was a general statement.
2) nope,, never have never will, not my goals.

Im 32 and i have people saying if you eat this you will get to this weight at this height. I personally think that is the biggest load of bull on this bored, my genetics play a bigger role in what i weigh then what i eat. Ive done the badass diet before and gained some weight, yes but for what i had to eat and do i could of gained the same weight with juice in 1/4 of the time and 1/4 of the effort /diet. And guess what when you stop that badasss diet your gains will go away just as fast as juice.

[chuckt12345]

We may have to agree to disagree chuck.

Truce

[armydude1]

well if yall genetics are the same ill put my money on army everytime and twice on sundays. Sorry but i disagree with diet over steroids. If thats the case this would be a diet bored and there would be no need for aas.

...thanks..i think? lol

Wow! Ok, slow down you guys. Christ its a mad house in here, haha. Ok here it is. As I said, Im no expert. I THOUGHT my diet was good, because I kinda took it from accumulative suggestions on another board, and it resembled other diets Ive seen. But apparently its garbage, and I will see to the diet section.

Believe me, as you can read from my first posts, I am not keen on the sides of AAS and I only want to use it only as a last resort. I am not by any means trying to 'jump into it.'

Be that as it may, there still might be a chance that in the future I end up back here, with these same questions. I know yall hate these reoccuring newb questions, maybe someone could throw a stack w/pct at me that suits my person interests. Dont worry, lol, its for knowledge sake at this point. I WILL try to fix my diet first as I am aware that AAS will do nothing if your diet is not right. (sorry chuck, lol) Diet is key. Cant build a Fortress without Stone, right?

[Kibble]

Biggest thing is that there are already tons of example cycles on this website. And if you did read through the stickies you would see that the "vets/mods" do not formulate cycles. However, you can always post a cycle and ask for adjustments

[Kibble]

And TOP, thanks for the diet advice a little while ago. I made some changes and I feel better throughout the day... but it seems like the halthier that I eat, the more cravings for junk that I get. I read that if you are always craving junk, then you might be doing something right