cardio on an empty stomach at 6am and igf???? what to expect

[big_k]

pre, during, and post

[SPIKE]

*sighs* take it easy guys....

I agree. I see too many members (this thread and others) calling people names and being cocky in their statements. Boards as this are meant to help each other. Me, you and everyone reading this thread should help one another so we can all learn. We're all trying to learn and make the most out of our time. Let me see if I can clear up some confusion here guys. As away with any further questions. Let me frist get to the topic startes questions and move on.

ive been doing cardio for 30mins before i eat breakfast every morning before work for 5 days now and then lifting at lunch.

im going to start taking igf at 50 ius mon-fri x2 a day.


i will take my first shot after cardio around 8:00am and my next shot at 1 pm PWO.

i have herd that i may got hypo if i do alot of cardio on this stuff so what do i need to be carful of as far as pin timing and what i eat ???

First off, great job on the training. You're definitely putting in your time CRAMER with double sessions. Keep up the great work buddy.

I have heard of people going somewhat Hypo post IGF-1LR3 injection. I never have nor know many that have but see it in other threads. It's believable, just look at the drug you're injecting. IGF-1, Insulin Like Growthfactor. In saying that, it has insulin like properties. Therefore you'll need to take precautions as if using insulin. It wont have the drastic effect as Insulin would but please take precaution as it may drop your blood sugar.

I dont see anything wrong with you injecting it twice a day. Post cardio and PWO is just fine. I just wouldnt recommned that you for at this stage. What I would recommend CRAMER is running it PWO for a month to see how you react to it. That way you can see how it effects your blood sugar so you know what to expect when injecting it twice a day. What doses are you looking to do? I have ran IGF-1LR3 many many of times and love it. Works well as long as you are using it for a goal it can help achieve.

I think that IGF-1 is FAKE and does ABSOLUTELY NOTHING AT ALL.. but again this is my opinion..

Everyone has an opinion Deuce and we're all here to share them. I just dont agree with yours. Like I stated above, it works GREAT as long as you're using it for the right reasons. It does "something," just may not be doing what you're using it for.

igf only works when ran with insulin, found this out after i ran it, 200 out the window

Where did you find that out from? Reason I ask is b/c it's not true nor does it make sense. Once again, as stated above. IGF stand for Insulin Like Growthfactor. It already has insulin likme properties so why the need to run it with insulin? Just makes no sense, hence why I'm wondering where you heard that or think it.

first off....you dont want to be doing cardio first thing in the morning on an empty stomach...thats just asking your body to eat your muscle, which is a no no....at least get some protein in you low in carb so that not only will it kick start your metabolism, but it will also provide an energy source to be used to burn instead of your muscle. Your body is first going to try and burn carbs, and bc you dont have any in you its going to attack your glycogen and fat. The body is going to try and use up the gylcogen first, but when its in extreme low amounts, the only way to get to the storage of it is to eat through your muscle where it is found.
I recommend doing cardio after your work out or at night, after your workout is risky too however with the same reason for first thing in the moning,but its up to you. after your workout its been proven that your body releases GH and you will be able to burn fat more easily.

how do u figure, the body cannot magically burn fat and fat only without sacrifisying muscle, in this case alot of it because he has no calorie intake in the morning. even a low intesity cardio workout will yield muscle diminishing results without any food!!! Not to mention, studies have been done to prove that running first thing in the morning is not the best time. It falls number 3 on top ten

ok first i do know wtf im talking about, second, you do have good points but being real, cardio on an empty stomach is not good, he at least needs some sort of protein in him to kick start his metab. comming off an 8 hour sleep.

im not saying cardio first thing in the morning is a bad time to do it, shit, i do it all the time in the morning, im just stating that there are other good times to do it other than the morning

You've got a lot of input Firsttimer, thanks for taknig the time to post it all. Let's just try to clarify some things. Let me know what you think.

1. You've stated a few times that you need to eat something prior to AM cardio. The idea behind AM cardio is to bypass your already empty (or close to empty) glycogen tank. Therefore, eating would defeat the entire reason for doing so. I wouldn't recommend eating anything prior to AM cardio. By doing so you're just setting yourself back from maximum fat loss. Sure, you wont have to worry as much about using muscle as energy but fat loss itself isn't going to be maximized. There's other things that can be done in order to prevent muscle loss. One of them was mentioned by CRAMER, IGF. HGH, AAS, Low intensity cardio, BCAA's etc.. There's no magic ingredient, it's the combination of many things.

2. Yes and no here. The first thing your body will use as an energy source is glycogen. Everyone has a glycogen tank. It's our "gas tank" that is first used up before anything else. Whether in training, cardio, blinking our eyes, moving our hands, chewing our food etc.. Once that tank is empty Gluconeogensis will occur. It wont discriminate so glycogen can and will be made from muscle (protein) or fat. It wont "attack" glycogen as you stated. It will make it's own coming from either source. We as humans can't pick and choose where it will be made from. But the idea of starting on an empty tanks means that fat will be forced to be used as glycogen. Muscle (protein) amy also be used but that's why there are other options possible for preserving that muscle and fat being utilized for glucose in order to preform that AM cardio.

3. Correct, PWO cardio is done for the same reasons as AM cardio. When you're done training that glucose tank should be empty. You used it all up in that training session. Hence why some prefer to do it PWO. You're definitely right on that one FT. That's why I was a little confused when you said you would recommend it PWO but not in the AM. Night time all depends on your daily activities combined with diet that day. Say you ate at 6pm and are in the gym hopping on the treadmill at 8pm. The first thing you're going to burn is that stored glucose that we all have. It's statistically proven that it takes about 15-20min of cardio performed at your THR to first burn through that glucose tank. Obvioulsy that's going to range in every individual based on age, body type, diet etc etc.. So the problem with night time cardio is similar to when it's performed at many other times of the day. It needs to be timed just right if not being done either PWO or AM on an empty stomach.

4. Yes and no. This was explained above.

5. Well, there has to be some benefits to it if you do it all the time. There are other great times to do it, I agree. But IMO, AM cardio on an empty stomach is probably the "best" time to do it. I say probably b/c it's based on goals too. It wont be the best time for every single person across the board.

[sfour_tay]

I agree. I see too many members (this thread and others) calling people names and being cocky in their statements. Boards as this are meant to help each other. Me, you and everyone reading this thread should help one another so we can all learn. We're all trying to learn and make the most out of our time. Let me see if I can clear up some confusion here guys. As away with any further questions. Let me frist get to the topic startes questions and move on.














First off, great job on the training. You're definitely putting in your time CRAMER with double sessions. Keep up the great work buddy.

I have heard of people going somewhat Hypo post IGF-1LR3 injection. I never have nor know many that have but see it in other threads. It's believable, just look at the drug you're injecting. IGF-1, Insulin Like Growthfactor. In saying that, it has insulin like properties. Therefore you'll need to take precautions as if using insulin. It wont have the drastic effect as Insulin would but please take precaution as it may drop your blood sugar.

I dont see anything wrong with you injecting it twice a day. Post cardio and PWO is just fine. I just wouldnt recommned that you for at this stage. What I would recommend CRAMER is running it PWO for a month to see how you react to it. That way you can see how it effects your blood sugar so you know what to expect when injecting it twice a day. What doses are you looking to do? I have ran IGF-1LR3 many many of times and love it. Works well as long as you are using it for a goal it can help achieve.
















Everyone has an opinion Deuce and we're all here to share them. I just dont agree with yours. Like I stated above, it works GREAT as long as you're using it for the right reasons. It does "something," just may not be doing what you're using it for.

















Where did you find that out from? Reason I ask is b/c it's not true nor does it make sense. Once again, as stated above. IGF stand for Insulin Like Growthfactor. It already has insulin likme properties so why the need to run it with insulin? Just makes no sense, hence why I'm wondering where you heard that or think it.



















You've got a lot of input Firsttimer, thanks for taknig the time to post it all. Let's just try to clarify some things. Let me know what you think.

1. You've stated a few times that you need to eat something prior to AM cardio. The idea behind AM cardio is to bypass your already empty (or close to empty) glycogen tank. Therefore, eating would defeat the entire reason for doing so. I wouldn't recommend eating anything prior to AM cardio. By doing so you're just setting yourself back from maximum fat loss. Sure, you wont have to worry as much about using muscle as energy but fat loss itself isn't going to be maximized. There's other things that can be done in order to prevent muscle loss. One of them was mentioned by CRAMER, IGF. HGH, AAS, Low intensity cardio, BCAA's etc.. There's no magic ingredient, it's the combination of many things.

2. Yes and no here. The first thing your body will use as an energy source is glycogen. Everyone has a glycogen tank. It's our "gas tank" that is first used up before anything else. Whether in training, cardio, blinking our eyes, moving our hands, chewing our food etc.. Once that tank is empty Gluconeogensis will occur. It wont discriminate so glycogen can and will be made from muscle (protein) or fat. It wont "attack" glycogen as you stated. It will make it's own coming from either source. We as humans can't pick and choose where it will be made from. But the idea of starting on an empty tanks means that fat will be forced to be used as glycogen. Muscle (protein) amy also be used but that's why there are other options possible for preserving that muscle and fat being utilized for glucose in order to preform that AM cardio.

3. Correct, PWO cardio is done for the same reasons as AM cardio. When you're done training that glucose tank should be empty. You used it all up in that training session. Hence why some prefer to do it PWO. You're definitely right on that one FT. That's why I was a little confused when you said you would recommend it PWO but not in the AM. Night time all depends on your daily activities combined with diet that day. Say you ate at 6pm and are in the gym hopping on the treadmill at 8pm. The first thing you're going to burn is that stored glucose that we all have. It's statistically proven that it takes about 15-20min of cardio performed at your THR to first burn through that glucose tank. Obvioulsy that's going to range in every individual based on age, body type, diet etc etc.. So the problem with night time cardio is similar to when it's performed at many other times of the day. It needs to be timed just right if not being done either PWO or AM on an empty stomach.

4. Yes and no. This was explained above.

5. Well, there has to be some benefits to it if you do it all the time. There are other great times to do it, I agree. But IMO, AM cardio on an empty stomach is probably the "best" time to do it. I say probably b/c it's based on goals too. It wont be the best time for every single person across the board.

You, my sir are a gentleman and a scholar.

thank you for the kind words.

i plan on running it at 50 mcg 5days on 2 off.

im at 12% right now and dropping. i want to get to 9%. im not on the igf for size. ill let the AAS help me with that.

goal is to drop to 9 by christmas. my diet is in check and will be even cleaner now that i got my hands on the igf.

as far as not splitting it up right away. wouldnt i want a smaller dose for a shot??

or would it really be best to just do 25mcg in each muscle ground pwo.

i.e. im doing back to morrow

i could either do one lat injection post cardio and the other lat post work out.

or for each lat pwo.


how soom should i feel this stuff kick in and see a difference ??

thanks
E

[SPIKE]

im not on the igf for size. ill let the AAS help me with that.

Great to see that's what you're using it for CRAMER. As I stated above, it works great as long as you're using it for the right reasons.

I've never gained much of any size from LR3 but it WILL help with cutting down BF and WILL help in preserving your LBM while performing cardio.

as far as not splitting it up right away. wouldnt i want a smaller dose for a shot??

or would it really be best to just do 25mcg in each muscle ground pwo.

Dont worry about spliting injections into multiple body parts. IGF1-LR3 is a systemic drug and will work the same whether injected into each bicep of both. Just inject the full dose into a isngle body part. I'd recommend the entire 50mcg PWO.

i could either do one lat injection post cardio and the other lat post work out.

or for each lat pwo.

Do the entire 50mcg in one body part PWO. Dont worry about splitting it up PWO and post cardio. Just do it all PWO as IGF receptors will be stimulated and you'll get the most out of it.

how soom should i feel this stuff kick in and see a difference ??

I'm not sure what kind you're taking so it's hard to say exaclty when you'll start to "feel" it. In the past when I've taken it I typically "feel" it within the first 1-2 weeks. First comes the insane pumps in the gym. Followed by noticable vascularity and a decrease in BF%. Most experience the same as I do if used properly combined with diet, training and of course making sure you're taking enough of the peptide.

[sfour_tay]

Ok well just got back from the gym. Not sure if it was cuz my diet was spot on today or if it really was the igf but had insane pumps. I had no idea what it was at first since my first shot was this morning. I thought the pumps were the prop but come to find out igf can cause them.

I'm using lr3. I think I'm going to stick with splitting up the injection. Not that I think your wrong but I really don't mind pining and when ever I pin a muscle for some reason I feel like I can control it better during work out. Ie when contracting and squeezing the muscle after pining it, it feels tighter.

Not sure if it makes sense but it works for me so I'll try it out.

Thanks for all your help bro. I'll keep you posted.
Thanks
E

[SPIKE]

^^It's all about finding out what works best for you CRAMER. I defintely dont see anything wrong with pinning twice. I dont think it's necessary but some do it and like it. If that works for you buddy, by all means keep going with it.

Keep up the great works and keep us all posted.

BUMP for others that posted in this thread. Waiting to hear back on what they think.

[sfour_tay]

yea im waiting to hear what THEY think too..........


JAY, do you see a problem with preloading my slin pins with my igf and then the bac water to dilute it??

it would be nice ot just grab two pins for the fridge in the morning and bounce.

other than that im pretty happy with this igf and if todays lift is one of many super days then i will be sure to run this at least every cycle.

thanks
E

[SPIKE]

JAY, do you see a problem with preloading my slin pins with my igf and then the bac water to dilute it??

it would be nice ot just grab two pins for the fridge in the morning and bounce.

other than that im pretty happy with this igf and if todays lift is one of many super days then i will be sure to run this at least every cycle.

Are you asking about mixing the 2 solutions and letting them sit together? If so, then no dont do that. LR3 needs to be in an acidic solution CRAMER. If you add the BW and let it sit for several hours it will degrade. I cant exaclty say how much and how long it will take but I wouldn't suggest that.

What you can do (and what you might actually be asking) is draw the LR3 and keep it in the pin and carry the BW along with it. When it's time to inject just add the BW right then and there and you're all set. I used to do that when I was done training. I'd pull my dose and carry the loaded pin and BW in my gym bag. Then I'd go in the bathroom stall, add the BW to the LR3 and inject it right after I was done training. Just bring along some wipes to sterilize both vials and your injection site. I think I paid around $5 for 100 quick wipes or so. They're extremely cheap.

I know you felt the pumps today. Get ready b/c it's going to continue for the next month CRAMER.

Good luck!!!!

[sfour_tay]

thanks again bro for the speedy and well informed response.

i already made the aa at 5% with ba and distilled vinegar.

so even if the igf is reconstituted in the AA its still not a good idea to dilute the igf with bac water to the last min??

also can i just shoot the igf in the aa alone ???

[N2Deep]

One of the few cardio studies I've found that might help..

http://www.alanaragon.com/myths-unde...ed-cardio.html

[SPIKE]

so even if the igf is reconstituted in the AA its still not a good idea to dilute the igf with bac water to the last min??

also can i just shoot the igf in the aa alone ???

I'd ask yuor source that question. Only b/c it will vary based on the quality of the LR3.

You'll turn the LR3 to gel by adding BW to some of them CRAMER. Not all so it's extremely important to ask your source. I use Gropep LR3 that is dissolved in BA and I can add BW with no worries. I've seen other LR3 brands that have been dissolved in AA that worked just fine when the BW was added. Others that turned to gel so it's important to ask.

You said you injected today. Did you add BW to your LR3 dissolved in AA? SOUnds like it went well for you.

To better answer your questions. 1. As long as you can, you'll have no worries adding BW to it. I wouldnt add it and let it stay combined for long. As stated earlier, it will degrade CRAMER. 2. You can shoot LR3 that's in AA alone but I wouldnt recommned it. Reason being that AA is extremely acidic and necrotic to muscle tissue. It will also burn like hell when injecting. By adding the BW yiou'll cut down on both the pain and necrosis.

[sfour_tay]

10-4 good buddy!

Yesterday I loaded up two pins with 25 mcg each and then 30 ius of bac water and left them in my car. Pinned just fine. I think I'll just load the pin with igf then when it's time to pin I'll just add the bw.

As far as asking my source. I have gottan to the point where I know more tha. Him about running it. He just has the good hook up.

All I know is it says receptor grade on it.

If you'd like I can shoot you a pm with all the other details.

Thanks and happy thanksgiving

E

[SPIKE]

I think I'll just load the pin with igf then when it's time to pin I'll just add the bw.

[sfour_tay]

another good work out with good pumps.

starting to notice that i can eat more. like when i would normally get full now i can just keep eating.

i like it !!!

[SPIKE]

Awesome news Cramer!!! Keep up the great work buddy..