Prohormone use, still considered natural?

**covert025** · 11-30-2009, 07:20 PM

If I have done prohormones for a boost, am I still considered natural? I am thinking no?

**goose** · 11-30-2009, 07:21 PM

prohormones are steroids .

So no.

**Kibble** · 11-30-2009, 07:22 PM

Originally Posted by goose

prohormones are steroids .

So no.

^ Nothing more needs to be said

**Bonaparte** · 11-30-2009, 07:23 PM

Nope.

**Dont wanna be old** · 11-30-2009, 07:32 PM

You are comparing OTC supplementation with prescription and or illegal substances .

So If I took Creatine powder than I'm not natural ?

**Kibble** · 11-30-2009, 07:38 PM

Originally Posted by Dont wanna be old

You are comparing OTC supplementation with prescription and or illegal substances .

So If I took Creatine powder than I'm not natural ?

lol... there is a difference between trenadrol, superdrol and epistane.... than creatine.

OP, read the guidelines for competing in a Natural event. See what disqualifies you, and then you will have your answer

**Kibble** · 11-30-2009, 07:39 PM

Just because something is over-the-counter does not mean that it is not a steroid . Did you notice every online retailer ditching prohormones after the senate hearing on prohormones a few months ago?

**CaliPhotog** · 11-30-2009, 07:43 PM

Originally Posted by Dont wanna be old

You are comparing OTC supplementation with prescription and or illegal substances .

So If I took Creatine powder than I'm not natural ?

BIG difference between creatine and prohormone! I never had creatine shut me down and destroy my libido. On the other hand I have had some terrible experiences with prohormones. Epistane is a steroid , PPlex is a steroid. Thoes are the two that I am sure of and I know that there are contless others that are considered steroids . Just because something is available OTC does not mean it is not a steroid. The companies find loop holes and sell the stuff till they get shut down.

**goose** · 11-30-2009, 07:45 PM

Originally Posted by Dont wanna be old

You are comparing OTC supplementation with prescription and or illegal substances .

So If I took Creatine powder than I'm not natural ?

Thats like saying if I take food am I natural,lol.

we are talking about things that alter your hormones.

**Gaspari1255** · 11-30-2009, 08:51 PM

M-Drol (Superdrol) is powerful and more potent than Dbol . This is not just my opinion, it has been proven. So to make a long story short, yes. you are no longer natty.

**chitownhoker** · 11-30-2009, 09:49 PM

put it this way if you take a steriods you cant do a natural bodybuilding comp for 7 years, if you take a pro hormone you cant do one for 3 years. So if they have limitations because you take them then i would also say no.

and just cuz there over the counter, we all know they are real steriods

**thebigfella** · 12-01-2009, 09:00 AM

M-Drol (Superdrol) is powerful and more potent than Dbol . This is not just my opinion, it has been proven. So to make a long story short, yes. you are no longer natty.

why is it legal then, never tried pro-hormones, this comment is interesting tho

**chuckt12345** · 12-01-2009, 09:03 AM

creatine is just as natural in our systems as testesterone.
Definition of whats natural to me is NO AAS (PH's included)

**gunslinger2** · 12-03-2009, 07:45 AM

To start with prohormones are not AAS. Under the right conditions some can convert to steroid like substances in the body. As a rule if it works like a steroid its pulled from the market in short order. That being said you can take a few different OTC things together that will act like a low dose of AAS. There are a few problems with this.

1. Anything that works like AAS is going to shut you down, therefore you will need some kind of PCT and I don't mean Gaspari Novedex either.

2. With PH you can get all the sides of steroids and maybe 10% or less of the results.

3. PH products are expensive as hell. Much more so than gear. For what you would pay for enough PH products to do much of anything for a month you could do a nice Test/dbol stack complete with PCT. So whats the point?

**Gaspari1255** · 12-03-2009, 07:58 AM

Originally Posted by gunslinger2

To start with prohormones are not AAS. Under the right conditions some can convert to steroid like substances in the body. As a rule if it works like a steroid its pulled from the market in short order. That being said you can take a few different OTC things together that will act like a low dose of AAS. There are a few problems with this.

1. Anything that works like AAS is going to shut you down, therefore you will need some kind of PCT and I don't mean Gaspari Novedex either.

2. With PH you can get all the sides of steroids and maybe 10% or less of the results.
3. PH products are expensive as hell. Much more so than gear. For what you would pay for enough PH products to do much of anything for a month you could do a nice Test/dbol stack complete with PCT. So whats the point?

Have any proof to support this? M-Drol is more powerful than Dianabol and H-Drol is more powerful than T-Bol...It has been proven

**corsa5000** · 12-03-2009, 08:05 AM

i was a natural competitive bodybuilder for a time, and they are real tight on drugs, prohormones would mean instant disqualification and a ten year ban.

**PistolStarta** · 12-03-2009, 08:29 AM

Originally Posted by ******

Have any proof to support this? M-Drol is more powerful than Dianabol and H-Drol is more powerful than T-Bol...It has been proven

My prohormone stack was definately stronger.

**gunslinger2** · 12-03-2009, 08:46 AM

Originally Posted by ******

Have any proof to support this? M-Drol is more powerful than Dianabol and H-Drol is more powerful than T-Bol...It has been proven

Been proven by who? I have taken both and M-Drol does not even come close. Maybe compared with underdosed bunk gear.

**Sauced_Up** · 12-03-2009, 08:59 AM

Originally Posted by gunslinger2

To start with prohormones are not AAS. Under the right conditions some can convert to steroid like substances in the body. As a rule if it works like a steroid its pulled from the market in short order. That being said you can take a few different OTC things together that will act like a low dose of AAS. There are a few problems with this.

1. Anything that works like AAS is going to shut you down, therefore you will need some kind of PCT and I don't mean Gaspari Novedex either.

2. With PH you can get all the sides of steroids and maybe 10% or less of the results.

3. PH products are expensive as hell. Much more so than gear. For what you would pay for enough PH products to do much of anything for a month you could do a nice Test/dbol stack complete with PCT. So whats the point?

Sadly you are complete off here........

To statement #2:
Some prohoromones do not have all the same sides as illegal AAS, simply such as epistane/havoc which will NOT aromatize to estrogen like Test. Such as statement is ignorant.

Next 10% effective??? really??? any proof???, compare a straight 12 week test cycle to a 4 week M-drol cycle (which I have experience in both) and you will see atleast 50% in comparable gains. I gained 13lbs on my first M-drol cycle and on my Test cycle I gained 22lbs. Normal M-drol gains are between 10-15lbs as to Test's gains from 20-25lbs.

To statement #3:
"Prohoromones" are extremely cheap. M-drol retails around $30, Epistane retails around $35., Tren retails around $25, and H-drol retails around $30. Compare that with a standard cycle which youll drop a few bills on, Id say PH/DS are dirt cheap yet very effective for their price.

Get your facts straight next time before giving such advise.

**gunslinger2** · 12-03-2009, 09:51 AM

To statement #2:
Some prohoromones do not have all the same sides as illegal AAS, simply such as epistane/havoc which will NOT aromatize to estrogen like Test. Such as statement is ignorant.

I did not say all. I said the ones that work like AAS.

Next 10% effective??? really??? any proof???, compare a straight 12 week test cycle to a 4 week M-drol cycle (which I have experience in both) and you will see atleast 50% in comparable gains. I gained 13lbs on my first M-drol cycle and on my Test cycle I gained 22lbs. Normal M-drol gains are between 10-15lbs as to Test's gains from 20-25lbs.

Ah, now lets compare a 4 week M-drol cycle mg for mg to a 4 week dbol cycle. There is no "proof" that M-drol works even half as well mg for mg. I challenge you to find this proof.

To statement #3:
"Prohoromones" are extremely cheap. M-drol retails around $30, Epistane retails around $35., Tren retails around $25, and H-drol retails around $30. Compare that with a standard cycle which youll drop a few bills on, Id say PH/DS are dirt cheap yet very effective for their price.

For what I can get dbol for I could do 30 mg per day for one month for about $16.20.
Tell me again how cheap Prohoromones are.

I got my facts straight buddy.

**Gaspari1255** · 12-03-2009, 02:17 PM

Originally Posted by gunslinger2

I did not say all. I said the ones that work like AAS.

Ah, now lets compare a 4 week M-drol cycle mg for mg to a 4 week dbol cycle. There is no "proof" that M-drol works even half as well mg for mg. I challenge you to find this proof.

For what I can get dbol for I could do 30 mg per day for one month for about $16.20.
Tell me again how cheap Prohoromones are.

I got my facts straight buddy.

Take 10mgs of M-Drol for 3 weeks and Take 10mg of Dianabol for 3 weeks. I would bet my life that you will gain more quality weight ( and probably weight in general) on the M-Drol.

**gunslinger2** · 12-03-2009, 04:53 PM

Did you read? I have taken both and Dbol blows M-Drol away. I'm still waiting for someone to show me the studies that have been done that "prove" M-Drol is better than dbol. You can't because thats something you just pulled out of your ass to try and make your post seem credible.

Also the fact remains that dbol is less expensive. The people arguing for the PH crap need to stop reading muscle mag. If you honestly think you can buy two or three prohoromones and will have the same effect as a Test/dbol cycle you should really seek mental help because the supplement companies have brain wash you big time.

**Kibble** · 12-03-2009, 04:56 PM

I am on 50mg dbol now. On week 2, with no strength increase yet. When I ran Spawn, I started to see an increase in strength around day 6. The back pumps are worse on dbol though

**sportfan33** · 12-03-2009, 05:39 PM

How far r u along in week 2..u should see sometime od difference by now i would think...unless its bunk dbol . I would also like to hear about this mdrol if its really stronger than dbol???

**gunslinger2** · 12-03-2009, 06:09 PM

I took 30 mg of dbol per day and felt it in about 10 days. If you are not stronger and weigh more within the next few days you got bunk dbol.

**dec11** · 12-03-2009, 06:15 PM

Originally Posted by BigKuntry1984

I am on 50mg dbol now. On week 2, with no strength increase yet. When I ran Spawn, I started to see an increase in strength around day 6. The back pumps are worse on dbol though

you shud be feeln it by now big k

**Ashop** · 12-03-2009, 07:00 PM

Originally Posted by covert025

If I have done prohormones for a boost, am I still considered natural? I am thinking no?

Which one are you considering?
Most are just designer oral AAS.

**gunslinger2** · 12-03-2009, 07:22 PM

Bro, when its all said and done if you don't want to or can't do a real cycle of real steroids just stick with protein , creatine, vitamins and glutamine. Your wallet and your body will thank you.

**Sauced_Up** · 12-03-2009, 07:32 PM

If you want an actual published medical article on this you wont find one, BUT mg for mg M-drol is better. You can take 20mg/day for 4 weeks of Mdrol and still gain 8-10lbs of LEAN MUSCLE, cant say the same with Dbol .

Yes you might gain more weight from taking Dbol but thats due to its high rate of aromatization which leads to lots of water retention. Mdrol doesnt have this effect, youll gain 10-15lbs of STRAIGHT LEAN MUSCLE as to Dbols 15-20lbs of water weight/lean muscle.

Also with your $16 you say you can get enough Dbol from your source, not everyone has this luxury of getting it cheap. For $30 you get enough Mdrol to last 2 4 week cycles, YES I said 2 cycles worth from a 90cap Mdrol container. Plus youll be sure to get a legit product, unlike the possibility of getting bunk Dbol.

**gunslinger2** · 12-03-2009, 08:35 PM

If you want an actual published medical article on this you wont find one, BUT mg for mg M-drol is better. You can take 20mg/day for 4 weeks of Mdrol and still gain 8-10lbs of LEAN MUSCLE, cant say the same with Dbol.

This is your opinion. There are many hundreds of thousands of bodybuilders the world over that would say you are full of it, myself included. You have no facts what so ever to back that statement up.

Yes you might gain more weight from taking Dbol but thats due to its high rate of aromatization which leads to lots of water retention. Mdrol doesnt have this effect, youll gain 10-15lbs of STRAIGHT LEAN MUSCLE as to Dbols 15-20lbs of water weight/lean muscle.

Again this is only your opinion and you have zero facts or studies to back it up. Come on man, 8-10 pounds of lean muscle in a month? If M-drol worked like that all pro bodybuilders would just flush their gear and use M-drol.

Also with your $16 you say you can get enough Dbol from your source, not everyone has this luxury of getting it cheap. For $30 you get enough Mdrol to last 2 4 week cycles, YES I said 2 cycles worth from a 90cap Mdrol container. Plus youll be sure to get a legit product, unlike the possibility of getting bunk Dbol.

Thats why you shop around and find a good source. The FDA does not regulate the supplement industry. They can put what ever the hell they want in those pills and you would never know. I will say this: If you have tried both and the M-drol worked better you got bunk dbol .

**homicidal** · 12-03-2009, 10:31 PM

where can a guy find these pro hormone products and what are they called? t he ones with mdrol and all the other ones people are ranting and raving about? I am in canada if that makes a difference, just wondering what brand names and who makes them and if they are something you should or shouldn't use during pct?

**Gaspari1255** · 12-04-2009, 12:05 AM

M-Drol IS an oral form of Masteron , this has been proven. Masteron is a WAY better compound than dbol when it comes down to quality mass. However, you seem like one of those guys who loves gaining as much weight as possible regardless of the quality.-with that being said, Dbol is the drug for you.

**gunslinger2** · 12-04-2009, 12:49 AM

Originally Posted by ******

M-Drol IS an oral form of Masteron, this has been proven. Masteron is a WAY better compound than dbol when it comes down to quality mass. However, you seem like one of those guys who loves gaining as much weight as possible regardless of the quality.-with that being said, Dbol is the drug for you.

If M-drol was indeed Masteron it would be pulled from the market quickly and the company shut down. I am aware of the quality gains that can be had with Masteron if you inject 400-500mg of it per week.

Its not the same product anymore than D-Anabol 25 is dbol or winn-50 is real winstrol . But, let say for the sake of argument it is real oral Masteron. Do you have any idea how many pills you would have to take to get 400-500mg per week (an effective dose ) once it has to go through the digestive tract?

To think there is an OTC supplement that works better than steroids is wishful thinking at best by people who are too scared to try the real thing.

**Kibble** · 12-04-2009, 04:00 AM

Originally Posted by sportfan33

How far r u along in week 2..u should see sometime od difference by now i would think...unless its bunk dbol. I would also like to hear about this mdrol if its really stronger than dbol???

Originally Posted by gunslinger2

I took 30 mg of dbol per day and felt it in about 10 days. If you are not stronger and weigh more within the next few days you got bunk dbol.

Originally Posted by declan11

you shud be feeln it by now big k

I have gained about7 pounds in 7 days. I also get terrible back pumps. Just no noticeable strength increase. So I am feeling something. It is just not coming as fast as I expected. I have chest and tris tomorrow, so I will see what I can bb benchpress. Before cycle I was able to hit 315 x 8.

**Kibble** · 12-04-2009, 04:01 AM

Not going to mention any lab names, but I am running the 'pink diamonds'. If this post is out of order let me know, and I will clear it

**gunslinger2** · 12-04-2009, 07:31 AM

Originally Posted by BigKuntry1984

Not going to mention any lab names, but I am running the 'pink diamonds'. If this post is out of order let me know, and I will clear it

I don't know about those, I took the pink "stop signs".

**Sauced_Up** · 12-04-2009, 08:03 AM

Originally Posted by gunslinger2

This is your opinion. There are many hundreds of thousands of bodybuilders the world over that would say you are full of it, myself included. You have no facts what so ever to back that statement up.

I have no facts. Your right cause theve never been CLINICALLY studied. What I do have is a ton of experience in PH/DS and many others who can attest to this. I also can GUARANTEE you that your crazy dbol gains are mostly water weight(THIS IS TRUE, and you cant argue that). Mdrol gains are 100% lean. There is very minimal water retention with Mdrol.

Again this is only your opinion and you have zero facts or studies to back it up. Come on man, 8-10 pounds of lean muscle in a month? If M-drol worked like that all pro bodybuilders would just flush their gear and use M-drol.

Have you ever heard that after each cycle you wont gain nearly as much on your next???? 10-15lbs lean in a month is easily doable with mdrol your first run. On your second you likely wont gain nearly as much. And "flush their gear"? come on dont be stupid. Injectable AAS are way safer then oral ones simply cause they arent as damaging to the liver, its way safer to take 500mg/week of test compare to loading up on as much possible Mdrol(50mg+/day). Some are even more effective then oral counterparts thus they would never do that.

This is why I never come onto this site anymore. But I leave with saying, Dbol F*CKIN licks Mdrols shaft!!!!

Im out

**gunslinger2** · 12-04-2009, 08:19 AM

I have no facts. Your right cause theve never been CLINICALLY studied. What I do have is a ton of experience in PH/DS and many others who can attest to this.

Exactly what I have been saying, so stop trying to act like your opinion is fact. I also have tons of experience in PH and have many that will say you are full of it.

This is why I never come onto this site anymore. But I leave with saying, Dbol F*CKIN licks Mdrols shaft!!!!

Why? Because you try to force your opinions on people as fact and get all butt hurt when someone corrects you?

I also noticed under cycle experience you say: Epi, Hdrol, Mdrol, TEST-E SOON!!! So you have never even tried AAS and you think you know an OTC supplement is better? Give me a break.

**Sauced_Up** · 12-04-2009, 09:56 AM

Dude anything dealing with AAS has not been clinically proven repeatedly for the most part besides the studies on Test, Deca , and Tren .

You can easily use the search button and find multiple threads on how much more effective Mdrol is compared to Dbol from USER experience. Thats basically ALL you ever going to get, "BRO SCIENCE".

Ive still yet to see you refute my statement on the FACT that most of Dbols weight gain is water weight as to Mdrols straight dry gains. And where you said a few posts above that if it were indeed a steroid be pulled off the market, many companies DO produce steriods and sell them as supplements on the market... heres a lil read:

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn...901636_pf.html

Heres some proof that Mdrol(a superdrol clone) is in fact a steroid, NOT masteron but methasterone

http://soraonline.org/component/cont...yldrostanolone

And for the part on what I cycled, that shits mad old. I wrote that the day I signed up and I could care less to change it.

**dec11** · 12-04-2009, 10:30 AM

Originally Posted by BigKuntry1984

I have gained about7 pounds in 7 days. I also get terrible back pumps. Just no noticeable strength increase. So I am feeling something. It is just not coming as fast as I expected. I have chest and tris tomorrow, so I will see what I can bb benchpress. Before cycle I was able to hit 315 x 8.

the quick gain will be mostly water, but if your back pumpin alot then thts a gud indication, good benching btw