Testosterone sustanon instead of Enanthate for beginner cycle

[Wayacrucis]

I just wanted input on Test e vs Test sustanon, I've heard that test s causes less bloating/water retention, but according to most sources I've read that test e is recommended for a beginner cycle. I'm having a hard time getting my hands on test e, this is the predominant reason on why I'd like to switch over to test s.

This is my first cycle -

250mg test sustanon/week
30mg D-BOL/ day
0.25 arimidex EOD


Nolva begins 2 weeks after last injection for PCT. Does the cycle seem okay? what are the main benifits of running test e instead of s, or vice versa, thanks for the input.

[thebigfella]

run the the sus, i prefer it, use 500mg a week tho
keep the d-bol its good stuff
whats ur stats
pct should be nolva 40/40/20/20
clomid 100/100/50/50

[Wayacrucis]

run the the sus, i prefer it, use 500mg a week tho
keep the d-bol its good stuff
whats ur stats
pct should be nolva 40/40/20/20
clomid 100/100/50/50

6'0, 200lbs, 13% BF, 3 years lifting exp, 1.5 years of adequate diet + 5 day split


Do I have to run nolva and clomid? or will one due?

[thebigfella]

run both, they do different things, run the course i said bro, sus 500mg url get more of a kik outa sus due to the prop init

[thebigfella]

how long u plannin runnin the sus and how long the d-bol, i would say run the sus 12 weeks and the d-bol the first 4

[dec11]

how long u plannin runnin the sus and how long the d-bol, i would say run the sus 12 weeks and the d-bol the first 4

you need to find out wat age ppl are b4 you start dishing out advice mate

[thebigfella]

Wayacrucis
New Member Join Date: Oct 2009
Posts: 7


Testosterone sustanon instead of Enanthate for beginner cycle

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

I just wanted input on Test e vs Test sustanon,

[thebigfella]

i was givin him my input, hes gunna do it no matter what im just tellin him to do it a safe way, like he was going to run clomid now he will, things like that

[Noles12]

i was givin him my input, hes gunna do it no matter what im just tellin him to do it a safe way, like he was going to run clomid now he will, things like that

this is a terribel way of thinking. So you think if a 14 year old gets on here and asks this question that then you support him by recommending a cycle before knowing his age is smart. Many guys have been turned off of the idea of steroids because of members here talking some sense into them

[Desinho]

run the the sus, i prefer it, use 500mg a week tho
keep the d-bol its good stuff
whats ur stats
pct should be nolva 40/40/20/20
clomid 100/100/50/50

Hey bro

for sus would you split the 500mg into twice 250mg injections per week
or would you do it all at once?

[Big]

this is a terribel way of thinking. So you think if a 14 year old gets on here and asks this question that then you support him by recommending a cycle before knowing his age is smart. Many guys have been turned off of the idea of steroids because of members here talking some sense into them

agreed. I've had countless young guys think they needed steroids to grow, once I took the time to show them the possibilities with proper diet and training and the risks involved with cycling too early, some chose to wait.

[Big]

Hey bro

for sus would you split the 500mg into twice 250mg injections per week
or would you do it all at once?

definitely not all at once.

[Noles12]

Hey bro

for sus would you split the 500mg into twice 250mg injections per week
or would you do it all at once?

Sust is best EOD in my opinion. I really liked it better than twice weekly

[thebigfella]

monday 250mg and thursday 250mg
sort your pct out before you do anythin mate

[kifenehma3ak]

i think he thinks sustanon is a type of Test. might be wrong.

[stevey_6t9]

its four tests in one. And any 14 year old cud lie and say he's 27. So its best to give the best advice possible.

[ottomaddox]

I think the OP is talking about Test-Suspension in relation to the bloat issue.

[Wayacrucis]

I'm sorry for not responding to my own thread, I was very busy yesterday. Anyhow, age wise I'm 23.

i think he thinks sustanon is a type of Test. might be wrong.

I'm pretty sure sustanon is a combination of 4 different tests, No?

I think the OP is talking about Test-Suspension in relation to the bloat issue.

Your right, my mistake

how long u plannin runnin the sus and how long the d-bol, i would say run the sus 12 weeks and the d-bol the first 4

Plan is to run the sus for 10 weeks, d-bol 6 weeks. Kinda tight on money atm, already have the d-bol, arimidex and nolva, just waiting on my test. I also intended on running 500mgs a week, forgot to mention 250mg injections twice a week on original post.

[kifenehma3ak]

yeah it is, u gonna have to inject sust ed or eod.

[Wayacrucis]

yeah it is, u gonna have to inject sust ed or eod.

What?

[thebigfella]

you do not have to inject sus everyday or every other day, thats bullshit, thats just people parroting what other people have said, iv run 500mg of sus a week 1 shot monday 1 shot thursday a few times and im doing it on my next course, it works very very well.
people will say thats because its got prop in it needs 2 be everyday but it only has 30mg of prop, so if you include the ester attached thats like 20mg of test from the prop, not much at all

[dec11]

i think he thinks sustanon is a type of Test. might be wrong.

wtf??!! off course its test

[yungone501]

LOL, this thread is all jacked up.

Firstly, he's 23...that's too young for beginning AAS! Secondly, use one compound (Test E) for your first cyle-dbol harsh bro. Use your AI (Arimidex) only when symptoms arise (bloat, nipple sensitivity, gyno.).


Lastly, don't dish out advise if you don't know what the hell you're talking about:

i think he thinks sustanon is a type of Test. might be wrong.

yeah it is, u gonna have to inject sust ed or eod.

[yungone501]

Im just clarifying the above info, you should NOT use AAS. Your body naturally produces enough 'steroids' to keep you growing. Reconsider and retain the knowlege for a later date.

[Misery13]

Please post your cycle plan...

[yungone501]

Please post your cycle plan...

[gymnerd]

yeah it is, u gonna have to inject sust ed or eod.

NO you do not.

[iron minded]

What about HCG would you not reccomend he use that also for faster recovery??

[dece870717]

I'm surprised people even still use mixed tests like sustanon. To keep blood levels stable for the short esters in it you should inject eod and for long ester parts you'd be fine twice a week. You might as well just pick one or the other, either some short ester like prop or long one like enanthate.

"Lately, it seems that this product has fallen out of favor with Steroid.com members, as many feel that the inclusion of the Propionate and phenylpropionate estered forms of testosterone in this blend would necessitate shooting every other day. This stems from the fact that testosterone propionate would be shot every other day at least, and testosterone phenylpropionate would generally be shot every third day."

I personally think its just pointless to use these mixed tests.

[CoreyJoseph]

I would suggest shooting the Sus at 1ml EOD or Lower even .5ml EOD. The benefit of EOD with Sus is you are utilizing all of the esters in the formula. Stable blood levels produce stable gains and minimal side effects. Make sure to keep hydrated and I might even suggest running Adex .5 EOD to keep bloat and help regulate your blood pressure because "edema" bloating can raise your BP and increase cardiovascular resistance which is one of the leading causes to organ damage....Just a thought.

[syd-bloke]

I'm surprised people even still use mixed tests like sustanon. To keep blood levels stable for the short esters in it you should inject eod and for long ester parts you'd be fine twice a week. You might as well just pick one or the other, either some short ester like prop or long one like enanthate.

"Lately, it seems that this product has fallen out of favor with Steroid.com members, as many feel that the inclusion of the Propionate and phenylpropionate estered forms of testosterone in this blend would necessitate shooting every other day. This stems from the fact that testosterone propionate would be shot every other day at least, and testosterone phenylpropionate would generally be shot every third day."

I personally think its just pointless to use these mixed tests.

Dude Im disappointed! lol

Sus works great if used twice a week. To handle the short ester, I use additional prop eod to keep it stable. How easy is that!

At the end of the day, its test and it works if used in proper cycle and dose.

Cheers

[dec11]

I'm surprised people even still use mixed tests like sustanon. To keep blood levels stable for the short esters in it you should inject eod and for long ester parts you'd be fine twice a week. You might as well just pick one or the other, either some short ester like prop or long one like enanthate.

"Lately, it seems that this product has fallen out of favor with Steroid.com members, as many feel that the inclusion of the Propionate and phenylpropionate estered forms of testosterone in this blend would necessitate shooting every other day. This stems from the fact that testosterone propionate would be shot every other day at least, and testosterone phenylpropionate would generally be shot every third day."

I personally think its just pointless to use these mixed tests.

sust is a great test, i thought test e was pathetic in comparison. with the sust, im leaner, less water and come off it with no probs at all, with test e i didnt even have the desire to train, and no, it wasnt bunk

[Critical Mass]

^^ Sust is great.

[The Deuce]

LOL, this thread is all jacked up.

Firstly, he's 23...that's too young for beginning AAS! Secondly, use one compound (Test E) for your first cyle-dbol harsh bro. Use your AI (Arimidex) only when symptoms arise (bloat, nipple sensitivity, gyno.).


Lastly, don't dish out advise if you don't know what the hell you're talking about:

YOU are one to talk bro.. FIRST OFF.. Sust is fine to use for a first cycle I am sick and tired of hearing this shit.. TEST IS TEST IS TEST.. It don't matter what fvcking ester it is attached to, and how many esters of test there is..

IN FACT I see nothing wrong with someone running a TEST/DECA/DBOL for their first cycle.. provided they have reached their genetic limit.. but that would be few and far between..

Then we move on to another issue.. the baseline 500mgs per week.. Ummm this is a bunch of BS in my eyes.. Test E has an ester.. so as we all know we are dealing with roughly something like 72mgs/100mgs .. so IF You run 500mgs of Test Enanthate you are only getting really 360mgs of STRAIGHT TEST.. not a whole helluva lot IMO... I think people should get 500mgs straight up for their first cycle.. Which would mean rocking approx 750mgs of Test E per week.. Now this 500 mark is a lot easier to achieve if we use SHORT ESTERS (Less Ester weight) and definitely easiest if you just go straight suspension.. then you KNOW you are getting what you put in.

Now, I am sick and tired of people flaming other people about their proposed cycles !!!


First off,NO ONE has written the book on how much to use steroids...Steroids is an experience....There isnt nothing more about it...We are all men here and whatever u do you accept FULL RESPONSIBILITY for your actions....We dont need GOD pointing fingers about whats too much and how much you should use...How would you know whats to much? Did you read it in some mickey mouse steroid book? Or do you just gauge it yourself and make it up as u go?...It so bogus to flame those that u feel use to much when your playing dart games too...And facts are no matter how much you use or little u do in the eyes of the outsiders we all are the chemical demons ...A villain at that using a controlled substance act that categorized Anabolic Steroid into the same class as drugs like heroin and cocaine....Its sad but ture....Try telling the outsider that U only use a little bit.....lol..yeah right...

Now, Sust is BEST in the beginning shot Every SINGLE Day until you build up the proper amount of Test in your system then You can Modify and switch to EOD if you feel, but I personally stick to shooting it every day. This is of course MY OPINION.. and on these BOARDS it is best to give OPINIONS.. Not FLAME SOMEONE For their cycle or their age.. WHO CARES !!! Really... do YOU .. Do you sit at home wondering how Wayacrucis cycle is going?? NO you don't.. you come on here.. give your advice and leave it at that.. and maybe.. if the person is running a LOG you check in on it.

Another thing i am sick of is the BS about newbies to the AAS world HAVING TO STICK TO TEST E OR C because of the less frequency of injects. Ok so who made this one up?? If you can't stand the thought of a goddamn needle going into your body you bunch of pansies you shouldn't be anywhere near AAS.. They are administered INTRAMUSCULARLY !!!

Or what's another common reason why You so called genius's on AAS Use use to convince people that a TEST ONLY CYCLE in the ester Enan or CYP is the way to go... OH YAH... in case of unwanted sides.. Ummm gee the last time I checked... Those Esters take in upwards of 2 weeks to stop doing their work after the last inject.. Wouldn't someone be more versed to say umm... do a Test prop cycle in case they didn't like the sides they could stop and have it out in 2-3 days as opposed to weeks?? And Prop only needs to be shot ONE more time a week than your basic E or C regimen... Despite the fact I inject Prop daily.. most do an EOD routine with it... that's 3 times a week and 7 in two weeks.. you do 4 injects in two weeks on E or C esters.. so what the hell is 3 more injects really??

WHERE DO YOU PEOPLE GET THIS INFORMATION FROM ?!!!? WHERE.. Do you just read what everyone else writes and go off that and call yourself EXPERIENCED STEROID USERS ?? Seriously !! I want to know !! Just because you read 100 posts online about something doesn't make it accurate information..

The only thing you should judge your advice on is YOUR OWN PERSONAL EXPERIENCE.. if you HAVE NONE.. Do not give advice.. straight up.. Just because you READ IT SOMEWHERE.. doesn't mean you should share.. ok.. no that's in accurate...

If you read something.. QUOTE IT Stating.. "I read somewhere that if....."

Experience counts for everything in this field.

Thats all I have to say on this issue.. and NO Yungone.. NO I am not singling you out over this.. This message goes out to everyone..

This is why I stay out of the Q & A section.. because I can't stand seeing the same repetitive NONSENSE being given to everyone... You can't suggest a Cycle that is designed for everyone.. because EVERYONE is different.. where 500mgs Might give someone sufficient gains .. some won't even feel it...

Case in Point.. I am prescribed an HRT dose of 400mgs per week... so I cruise at 500mgs.. just to hold on to my hard earned muscle tisse!!

Oh and another thing.. One last thing I swear and I will END THIS RANT !!

Steroids aren't a miracle cure for laziness.. You have to first know how to eat before you should even consider an AAS cycle.. but once again.. this is my own opinion.

-END RANT

[dec11]

YOU are one to talk bro.. FIRST OFF.. Sust is fine to use for a first cycle I am sick and tired of hearing this shit.. TEST IS TEST IS TEST.. It don't matter what fvcking ester it is attached to, and how many esters of test there is..

IN FACT I see nothing wrong with someone running a TEST/DECA/DBOL for their first cycle.. provided they have reached their genetic limit.. but that would be few and far between..

Then we move on to another issue.. the baseline 500mgs per week.. Ummm this is a bunch of BS in my eyes.. Test E has an ester.. so as we all know we are dealing with roughly something like 72mgs/100mgs .. so IF You run 500mgs of Test Enanthate you are only getting really 360mgs of STRAIGHT TEST.. not a whole helluva lot IMO... I think people should get 500mgs straight up for their first cycle.. Which would mean rocking approx 750mgs of Test E per week.. Now this 500 mark is a lot easier to achieve if we use SHORT ESTERS (Less Ester weight) and definitely easiest if you just go straight suspension.. then you KNOW you are getting what you put in.

Now, I am sick and tired of people flaming other people about their proposed cycles !!!


First off,NO ONE has written the book on how much to use steroids...Steroids is an experience....There isnt nothing more about it...We are all men here and whatever u do you accept FULL RESPONSIBILITY for your actions....We dont need GOD pointing fingers about whats too much and how much you should use...How would you know whats to much? Did you read it in some mickey mouse steroid book? Or do you just gauge it yourself and make it up as u go?...It so bogus to flame those that u feel use to much when your playing dart games too...And facts are no matter how much you use or little u do in the eyes of the outsiders we all are the chemical demons ...A villain at that using a controlled substance act that categorized Anabolic Steroid into the same class as drugs like heroin and cocaine....Its sad but ture....Try telling the outsider that U only use a little bit.....lol..yeah right...

Now, Sust is BEST in the beginning shot Every SINGLE Day until you build up the proper amount of Test in your system then You can Modify and switch to EOD if you feel, but I personally stick to shooting it every day. This is of course MY OPINION.. and on these BOARDS it is best to give OPINIONS.. Not FLAME SOMEONE For their cycle or their age.. WHO CARES !!! Really... do YOU .. Do you sit at home wondering how Wayacrucis cycle is going?? NO you don't.. you come on here.. give your advice and leave it at that.. and maybe.. if the person is running a LOG you check in on it.

Another thing i am sick of is the BS about newbies to the AAS world HAVING TO STICK TO TEST E OR C because of the less frequency of injects. Ok so who made this one up?? If you can't stand the thought of a goddamn needle going into your body you bunch of pansies you shouldn't be anywhere near AAS.. They are administered INTRAMUSCULARLY !!!

Or what's another common reason why You so called genius's on AAS Use use to convince people that a TEST ONLY CYCLE in the ester Enan or CYP is the way to go... OH YAH... in case of unwanted sides.. Ummm gee the last time I checked... Those Esters take in upwards of 2 weeks to stop doing their work after the last inject.. Wouldn't someone be more versed to say umm... do a Test prop cycle in case they didn't like the sides they could stop and have it out in 2-3 days as opposed to weeks?? And Prop only needs to be shot ONE more time a week than your basic E or C regimen... Despite the fact I inject Prop daily.. most do an EOD routine with it... that's 3 times a week and 7 in two weeks.. you do 4 injects in two weeks on E or C esters.. so what the hell is 3 more injects really??

WHERE DO YOU PEOPLE GET THIS INFORMATION FROM ?!!!? WHERE.. Do you just read what everyone else writes and go off that and call yourself EXPERIENCED STEROID USERS ?? Seriously !! I want to know !! Just because you read 100 posts online about something doesn't make it accurate information..

The only thing you should judge your advice on is YOUR OWN PERSONAL EXPERIENCE.. if you HAVE NONE.. Do not give advice.. straight up.. Just because you READ IT SOMEWHERE.. doesn't mean you should share.. ok.. no that's in accurate...

If you read something.. QUOTE IT Stating.. "I read somewhere that if....."

Experience counts for everything in this field.

Thats all I have to say on this issue.. and NO Yungone.. NO I am not singling you out over this.. This message goes out to everyone..

This is why I stay out of the Q & A section.. because I can't stand seeing the same repetitive NONSENSE being given to everyone... You can't suggest a Cycle that is designed for everyone.. because EVERYONE is different.. where 500mgs Might give someone sufficient gains .. some won't even feel it...

Case in Point.. I am prescribed an HRT dose of 400mgs per week... so I cruise at 500mgs.. just to hold on to my hard earned muscle tisse!!

Oh and another thing.. One last thing I swear and I will END THIS RANT !!

Steroids aren't a miracle cure for laziness.. You have to first know how to eat before you should even consider an AAS cycle.. but once again.. this is my own opinion.

-END RANT

all bow down lol

[Noles12]

YOU are one to talk bro.. FIRST OFF.. Sust is fine to use for a first cycle I am sick and tired of hearing this shit.. TEST IS TEST IS TEST.. It don't matter what fvcking ester it is attached to, and how many esters of test there is..

IN FACT I see nothing wrong with someone running a TEST/DECA/DBOL for their first cycle.. provided they have reached their genetic limit.. but that would be few and far between..

Then we move on to another issue.. the baseline 500mgs per week.. Ummm this is a bunch of BS in my eyes.. Test E has an ester.. so as we all know we are dealing with roughly something like 72mgs/100mgs .. so IF You run 500mgs of Test Enanthate you are only getting really 360mgs of STRAIGHT TEST.. not a whole helluva lot IMO... I think people should get 500mgs straight up for their first cycle.. Which would mean rocking approx 750mgs of Test E per week.. Now this 500 mark is a lot easier to achieve if we use SHORT ESTERS (Less Ester weight) and definitely easiest if you just go straight suspension.. then you KNOW you are getting what you put in.

Now, I am sick and tired of people flaming other people about their proposed cycles !!!


First off,NO ONE has written the book on how much to use steroids...Steroids is an experience....There isnt nothing more about it...We are all men here and whatever u do you accept FULL RESPONSIBILITY for your actions....We dont need GOD pointing fingers about whats too much and how much you should use...How would you know whats to much? Did you read it in some mickey mouse steroid book? Or do you just gauge it yourself and make it up as u go?...It so bogus to flame those that u feel use to much when your playing dart games too...And facts are no matter how much you use or little u do in the eyes of the outsiders we all are the chemical demons ...A villain at that using a controlled substance act that categorized Anabolic Steroid into the same class as drugs like heroin and cocaine....Its sad but ture....Try telling the outsider that U only use a little bit.....lol..yeah right...

Now, Sust is BEST in the beginning shot Every SINGLE Day until you build up the proper amount of Test in your system then You can Modify and switch to EOD if you feel, but I personally stick to shooting it every day. This is of course MY OPINION.. and on these BOARDS it is best to give OPINIONS.. Not FLAME SOMEONE For their cycle or their age.. WHO CARES !!! Really... do YOU .. Do you sit at home wondering how Wayacrucis cycle is going?? NO you don't.. you come on here.. give your advice and leave it at that.. and maybe.. if the person is running a LOG you check in on it.

Another thing i am sick of is the BS about newbies to the AAS world HAVING TO STICK TO TEST E OR C because of the less frequency of injects. Ok so who made this one up?? If you can't stand the thought of a goddamn needle going into your body you bunch of pansies you shouldn't be anywhere near AAS.. They are administered INTRAMUSCULARLY !!!

Or what's another common reason why You so called genius's on AAS Use use to convince people that a TEST ONLY CYCLE in the ester Enan or CYP is the way to go... OH YAH... in case of unwanted sides.. Ummm gee the last time I checked... Those Esters take in upwards of 2 weeks to stop doing their work after the last inject.. Wouldn't someone be more versed to say umm... do a Test prop cycle in case they didn't like the sides they could stop and have it out in 2-3 days as opposed to weeks?? And Prop only needs to be shot ONE more time a week than your basic E or C regimen... Despite the fact I inject Prop daily.. most do an EOD routine with it... that's 3 times a week and 7 in two weeks.. you do 4 injects in two weeks on E or C esters.. so what the hell is 3 more injects really??

WHERE DO YOU PEOPLE GET THIS INFORMATION FROM ?!!!? WHERE.. Do you just read what everyone else writes and go off that and call yourself EXPERIENCED STEROID USERS ?? Seriously !! I want to know !! Just because you read 100 posts online about something doesn't make it accurate information..

The only thing you should judge your advice on is YOUR OWN PERSONAL EXPERIENCE.. if you HAVE NONE.. Do not give advice.. straight up.. Just because you READ IT SOMEWHERE.. doesn't mean you should share.. ok.. no that's in accurate...

If you read something.. QUOTE IT Stating.. "I read somewhere that if....."

Experience counts for everything in this field.

Thats all I have to say on this issue.. and NO Yungone.. NO I am not singling you out over this.. This message goes out to everyone..

This is why I stay out of the Q & A section.. because I can't stand seeing the same repetitive NONSENSE being given to everyone... You can't suggest a Cycle that is designed for everyone.. because EVERYONE is different.. where 500mgs Might give someone sufficient gains .. some won't even feel it...

Case in Point.. I am prescribed an HRT dose of 400mgs per week... so I cruise at 500mgs.. just to hold on to my hard earned muscle tisse!!

Oh and another thing.. One last thing I swear and I will END THIS RANT !!

Steroids aren't a miracle cure for laziness.. You have to first know how to eat before you should even consider an AAS cycle.. but once again.. this is my own opinion.

-END RANT

Wow man take it easy.

Sometimes i think these responses are really overboard.

I do agree that Sust is fine as a first cycle but due to the esters shooting it ED or EOD makes it less desirable due to shot frequency. I know my first cycle, the idea of shooting everyday would probably have steered me away. However on my next cycle it was not a problem shooting EOD.

Also the prop in Sust does not make it equivalent to 500 mgs either because it is so low compared to the larger esters with larger weights.

And finally the worst thing about all of this is the idea that you would recommend Test/Deca/Dbol as a first cycle just based on reaching natural limit. The idea of using one compound is due to the sides and effects of the compound. If you were taking just Test and experienced a side effect you would know it was from just the Test. However if you ran it with Deca and Dbol you have no way of knowing which one cause the side effect because its your first time running any of them. These side effects form the compounds are in no way correlated with genetic limit

[The Deuce]

Wow man take it easy.sorry get riled up easily...

Sometimes i think these responses are really overboard. ehhh maybe, just stating my opinion like everyone else..

I do agree that Sust is fine as a first cycle but due to the esters shooting it ED or EOD makes it less desirable due to shot frequency. I know my first cycle, the idea of shooting everyday would probably have steered me away. However on my next cycle it was not a problem shooting EOD.Maybe Im just a sick freak and like sticking myself...

Also the prop in Sust does not make it equivalent to 500 mgs either because it is so low compared to the larger esters with larger weights.
MY SUST COMES EQUIPPED AT 75mgs in each ML.. plus 75 TestPP plus 90Cyp plus 110 decanoate.. 350mgs/ml.. at 1ml per day.. that's 525 per week.. obviously NOT a beginner cycle.. but that's how I run it...
And finally the worst thing about all of this is the idea that you would recommend Test/Deca/Dbol as a first cycle just based on reaching natural limit. The idea of using one compound is due to the sides and effects of the compound. If you were taking just Test and experienced a side effect you would know it was from just the Test. However if you ran it with Deca and Dbol you have no way of knowing which one cause the side effect because its your first time running any of them. These side effects form the compounds are in no way correlated with genetic limitok.. i'll give on this.. BUT What steroid book did you happen to read this out of.. who cares about sides.. acne? bloat? i mean what freaking sides you talking about.. steroids are NOT THE VITAL ORGAN DESTROYERS everyone would like to believe they are... they are perfectly safe.. aside from a few things.. aka Oral Tren... basically what im saying is.. i know you are just saying this from something you read on a forum board somewhere.. because i mean.. you ever run a test/deca/dbol cycle?? suffered an ill side effects that would force you to stop or that you couldnt combat with say.. adex/caber/or accutane?? Maybe you are worried about blood pressure?? Ok.. well eat correctly!! if you are at your GENETIC LIMIT BRO.. You know what the hell you are doing when it comes to diet & training... AAS only become a tool at this point to bring on more growth... what the hell would be the difference if you experience sides from cycle #1 or cycle # 21.. u would HANDLE them in the exact same way... STEROIDS DO NOT KILL.. stop feeding the newbs that they are this evil demon fvcking substance !! There is no difference whatsoever.. plus.. SIDE EFFECT FROM TEST!?!? Like what?? being too effin horny?? EDUCATE BEFORE YOU MEDICATE.. SO by the time you make that first stick you know what to do if a side does arise... Side effects... psssh...

BOLDS BRO.. AND I DON'T WANNA GET INTO A DEBATE ABOUT THIS.. BUT SERIOUSLY.. Listen to what you are saying.. it's the same goddamn bullshit every single person says on the boards.. OH DON'T DO SOMETHING LIKE THAT.. YOU COULD GET AN UNWANTED SIDE!!! Oh GOD you don't want THAT TO HAPPEN... There are risks involved and we are well.. mostly Men.. but come on.. sides can be dealt with.. you don't need to stop a cycle if you experience a side.. FIX IT !!! Please, give me something knowledgeable that would lead me to believe that you didn't just copy and paste something someone has said a million fvxking times... TAKE CHANCES.. we aren't drinking TEA here.. IF YOU WANT TO GET BIG... You have to GO BIG !! Plain and simple.. PVSSY FOOTING AROUND AINT GONNA GET YOU ANYWHERE.. You think Dorian Yates, Jay Cutler, Branch Warren, Phil Heath, Markus Ruhl.. any of them even considered a simple 500mg Test only cycle?? FVCK NO.. They knew what they wanted and what the fvxk they had to do to get there.. and it wasn't no PANSY ass 500mgs of TEST...


DEBATE THAT !!

[Noles12]

Sides were just one of the issues i brought up.

If you were to run Test/Deca/Dbol and made amazing gains but had never ran them before, how do you know that all of them together caused these gains. What if it was the Deca you responded well to? You then wouldnt know for future cycles.

When you talk about going big to get big i disagree in the sense of drugs. No it is not possible to look like ronnie or Jay without them,but yes it is possible to have a great physique(and a large one at that) without tons of AAS.

I am finishing a cycle of Sust at 500 mgs/week and Tren at around 350 mgs/week. I have gained tons of mass in this cycle and loved it. Was it a lot of AAS? No, but i gained over 20 pounds on it and now im sitting at 6'2 240 at around 14-15% bf.

I never once implied that i think steroids are bad or kill you, but like anything else i think they need to be used in moderation, especially when first starting off.

Finally im slightly confused by your math when it comes to your dosage protocol. Are you saying shooting 350mg/day is equivalent to 525 mg/week?

[LeroyB]

Hey Wayacrucis,
There is a lot of mess in this thread.
Take the following points:
1) Your body stills makes quite a lot of Test naturally, it will keep on doing this for about another 2 years average. If you start taking AAS before you body breaks you affect yourself perminantly. Just keep it in mind. Most people that have exp on this board will tell you wait till your 25 or over, now I dont have the EXP of most here but hat goes in line with the vast majority of what I have read all over the net.
See here: http://forums.steroid.com/showthread.php?t=332958
2) Dbol Kicker with Test E is a very normal beginner cycle. Most people suggest keeping things simple to start so you can see how things effect you.
Check here: http://forums.steroid.com/showthread.php?t=355742
3)Test E and Test S are both Test. So read the two profiles yourself and make the call.
Test S has been known to be a little more painfull from my research.
Test E and Test S
4)ed = everyday, eod = every other day
5) I am going to tell you one more thing: Lift Hard, Eat Well, Sleep a lot, Grow Big- Leave the ASS for later, After your 25th Birthday.
Cheers!

[Noles12]

Hey Wayacrucis,
There is a lot of mess in this thread.
Take the following points:
1) Your body stills makes quite a lot of Test naturally, it will keep on doing this for about another 2 years average. If you start taking AAS before you body breaks you affect yourself perminantly. Just keep it in mind. Most people that have exp on this board will tell you wait till your 25 or over, now I dont have the EXP of most here but hat goes in line with the vast majority of what I have read all over the net.
See here: http://forums.steroid.com/showthread.php?t=332958
2) Dbal Kicker with Test E is a very normal beginner cycle. Most people suggest keeping things simple to start so you can see how things effect you.
Check here: http://forums.steroid.com/showthread.php?t=355742
3)Test E and Test S are both Test. So read the two profiles yourself and make the call.
Test S has been known to be a little more painfull from my research.
Test E and Test S
4)ed = everyday, eod = every other day
5) I am going to tell you one more thing: Lift Hard, Eat Well, Sleep a lot, Grow Big- Leave the ASS for later, After your 25th Birthday.
Cheers!

Great points but i dont think you quite understand what compound he is speaking off. Test SUSPENSION and Sustanon are completely different.

Suspension(Sus) is a non-estered test while Sustanon (Sust) is derived of a mixture of testosterone esters in one compound