To anyone that could call himself experienced...

[Ghost84]

Ok, this is a post I do to help a friend.

The thing is he has been on 750mg test cyp for first 3 months and test e for the last 4, all togheter 7 months in a row.

Now he wants to come off and restore his system.

First off, what would you do at this point? Start a recommended pct or go to see a doc to get bloodvalues and then start pct or just sheck bloodvalues after pct??

And what would be a suitable pct for someone 216pounds and about 16% bf?

He keeps asking if he could use winstrol, anavar or anything during the pct. I said no you cant mate, but just to have someone back me up I put the question up to this post.

Is there any alternatives to this matter?

I know there is gonna be some haters telling us how stupid this was in the first place but whats done is done. Tnx

[marcus300]

Go to the PCT section and research PCT like he should of done before the cycle,
I have to ask why as he been on for 7 months and how old is he, cycle experience?

[lovbyts]

7 months LONG cycle but as stated, visit the PCT section. It's the same just longer PCT and hope for the best. He probably will recover fine, depending on age but it's not a good idea to run that long.

Also NO he should not use any other compounds like winny on PCT or he will stay shut down.

[alpmaster]

Yeah look up in the PCT section or ask swifto, he's a good guy on the subject. I'd do a PCT containing HCG/Clomid/Nolva/Aromasin and he should be ok, hopefully.

[Ghost84]

He is not that experienced really, some orals only and shit. This was his first inject-cycle.
Reason he did it was that he thought staying on all the time and just changing esters and adding this and that was the only way to get really big. Im happy Ive got him this far thou..
He is 26 years old btw.

Tnx fot the advice guys!! I´ll look into it

[marcus300]

He is not that experienced really, some orals only and shit. This was his first inject-cycle.
Reason he did it was that he thought staying on all the time and just changing esters and adding this and that was the only way to get really big. Im happy Ive got him this far thou..
He is 26 years old btw.

Tnx fot the advice guys!! I´ll look into it

Well he thought wrong, staying on that amount for so long will cause him problems in recovery, which will results in muscle loss, longer isnt always better and where the hell did he think changing ester will make him grow big is beyond me!!

He should of come here before he started cycling and he shouldnt of listen to who ever adviced him, jeeez go to the pct section do a proper pct and get some bloodwork done and see if he as any natural test left

[Ghost84]

Well he thought wrong, staying on that amount for so long will cause him problems in recovery, which will results in muscle loss, longer isnt always better and where the hell did he think changing ester will make him grow big is beyond me!!

He should of come here before he started cycling and he shouldnt of listen to who ever adviced him, jeeez go to the pct section do a proper pct and get some bloodwork done and see if he as any natural test left

I know, he probably thought it worked like different drugs. Like different kind of testosterones, but as far as i know bout chemistry the ester is just something thats attached to the test-molecule to make it available and bindable to the receptors...

Anyways, your advice is to see a doc for bloodwork before or after pct??

[Vitruvian-Man]

Anyways, your advice is to see a doc for bloodwork before or after pct??

So he has been on for 7 months of testosterone? That's a significant amount of time, but chances are at his age he will be able to reverse the suppression of the HPTA. Make sure he realizes that this isn't going to be a 'fun' process. Coming off after being on AAS for that long will take a toll on his body.

We need to find out a little information first.

1.) So you're saying he has stayed at a constant dosage of test @ 750mg EW for 7 months? Or did he ever reduce the dosage down to a TRT dosage (IE 100 - 200mg EW for a couple of months?) The reason I'm asking is because running test @ such a high dosage for such a prolonged period of time can impact one's lipid-profile pretty drastically. He should get blood-work done immediately checking his cholesterol, etc...

2.) Has he even used HCG to aid with function of the testes, during this 'cycle'???

3.) This is going to be an uncomfortable question, but ask him about his testicular atrophy. This will be the determinant of when he may need to begin his PCT. If his testicles are extremely shrunk he will need to wait a bit to start the PCT, and begin an HCG protocol immediately.

[Vitruvian-Man]

^^ After you can answer those questions just post, and we can begin reviewing the protocol for extended cycle PCT.

In the mean time, tell him to start investing (buying) the proper PCT support:

Clomid or Tore
Nolvadex
HCG = ~ 10, 000iu, maybe more depending on his needs
an A.I. (arimidex, etc) in case he needs to run the HCG during his PCT.

[Vitruvian-Man]

First off, what would you do at this point? Start a recommended pct or go to see a doc to get bloodvalues and then start pct or just sheck bloodvalues after pct??

He should get full blood-work done immediately to check his lipid profile. Then he should get blood-work done during PCT (maybe around week 4), and then another one about 1 or 1/2 months after PCT is discontinued.

He keeps asking if he could use winstrol, anavar or anything during the pct. I said no you cant mate, but just to have someone back me up I put the question up to this post.

No. Using any form of AAS during his PCT would be counter-productive to the goal of HPTA recovery. All AAS suppress the HPTA to some extent...

Sorry for so many comments, I just kept missing questions from the post, lol.

[Ghost84]

Sounds like Ive found my man, the vitruvian man! Really glad Da vinci painted you :P

Now for your questions..

He has used the same amount of test the whole time. 750mg of test cyp for approx 3 months and test e for approx four months.

Ha has been using hcg for at least 2 weeks i think and dosages around 500-1000iu every other day, but he has stopped that now.

He says his testes has shrunked marginaly. I personally think this means that they have shrunk, but not enough to scare him.

If i might ask u a question (vitruvian man) why does he need arimidex if he is supposed to use hcg for some time, and if it is because the rise of estrogen that hcg might cause, why isnt nolvadex enough?? Could I send u a personal message later maybe?

Tnx in advance!

[Vitruvian-Man]

Sounds like Ive found my man, the vitruvian man! Really glad Da vinci painted you :P

Now for your questions..

He has used the same amount of test the whole time. 750mg of test cyp for approx 3 months and test e for approx four months.

Ok. Tell him to get blood-work done. That is a hell of a long time to be blasting for.

Ha has been using hcg for at least 2 weeks i think and dosages around 500-1000iu every other day, but he has stopped that now.

He needs to buy some more HCG and start running it.

He says his testes has shrunked marginaly. I personally think this means that they have shrunk, but not enough to scare him.

Ok. Well if he is concerned about bringing them back to normal size then he should start HCG therapy again. If not he can begin his PCT once the test-cyp ester clears his system.

If i might ask u a question (vitruvian man) why does he need arimidex if he is supposed to use hcg for some time, and if it is because the rise of estrogen that hcg might cause, why isnt nolvadex enough??

He needs the a-dex if he is going to be using HCG during his PCT. a-dex eliminates ~83% of estrogen in the body. nolvadex blocks estrogen from entering breat tissue receptors. They are two completely different functions.

Could I send u a personal message later maybe?

sure.

Tnx in advance!

Bottom Line:

Option #1: he wants to use HCG before his PCT. (drop down test dosage to 100mg EW, and run HCG @ 500iu every other day for 7 to 14 days -- he needs to gauge if his testes have returned to size -- if they have, then discontinue the test, and keep running the HCG @ 250iu every 3rd day for 2 weeks, and then begin PCT.

Option #2: he can just stop injecting the test-cyp, and wait 18 days after his last shot, and then begin an advanced PCT protocol. (he would use this method if he didn't want to use HCG / can't get it quick enough).

Peace.