Basic Cycle and Questions - Input appreciated

[bigpaul66]

Hello,

I have been following the forums here for some time and decided to join to post a question and hope I did so in the correct location. In a nutshell, I am a 43 year old male, 6 foot, 260 pounds, and bodyfat is up over 20 percent, but I carry it well and am endo body type by genetics. Have been lifting over 20 years, and yes off and on periods, but steady last year and diet in check and about to get tighter. I have used mild cycles in the past, but not lately.

I suppose I am looking for helpful input on what I am about to start in two weeks based off my size, goals and age. At 43 and fairly large, yet bit high in BF right now, looking to get down to 10 percent BF and of course add 15 lbs mass or more (if lucky). Below is recap of what I have planned and again, more looking for input, not flame, based on my age. Keeping it straight forward as I do not think I need much due to prior usage and age. I think I did enough research to on all fronts and suppose I am looking for things I might have missed or imput from those in the know as it relates to this type of training when over 40. Thanks for input gentleman. Old man appreciates it.

Supp/Ana:

Week 1 -10 600mg/week Test E
Week 1-4 40mg ED dBol
Week 1-10 .5 mg aramadex EOD (I know, but want to make sure no bloat/sides)
Week 13-14 Clomid thearapy (usually dosages, high day one taper after)
Nova on hand just in case.

Additional Sup:
NO Explode and aminos preworkout
Isopure 50G shakes as two of my 6 meals with some brown rice
Glutemnin in shakes
Chromium Picolonate 200 mcg
Multi performance vita paks
extra vitamin C, E and ***** Fish oil pills
Flax seed daily in moring oats


As for Diet and training, I am HUGE beliver in Ronnie's training and supplementing techniques and will basically be following his article here:

http://forums.steroid.com/showthread.php?t=402776

Due to body type and excess fat, morning cardio empty stomach each morning, training in the evening.

Diet is good, but can post exact if requested.

Thanks for the input in advance, I really do appreciate it.

P

[Dont wanna be old]

When did you do last cycle ?
As we get into are forties , we have left the thirties .
You can't tell me you haven't noticed a small difference in yourself from 5 years ago .
I would suggest no front loading with the d-bol .
The no-xplode supplement is like adding light weight door handles to a super charged Corvette .
If you can tolerate 600mg test then go for it I say .
I would keep at 400mg to 500mg / week for 12 weeks .
With Bf % a issue and age a factor , not to mention blood pressure concerns , If not now , when 3 weeks of high test . You may not be jumping out of bed to do cardio and doing weights later in day .
It's best to stick with the basic's .
What does your workout routine look like ?
example :

Day 1.
Back .
Day 2.
Chest
Day 3.
Legs
Day 4.
Shoulders and traps
Day 5.
Tris and bis

This allows for 2 off days to move around at your availability .
2,3 or 4 exercises and 3 or 4 sets /day . 4 to 8 rep range .
No tests of strength .
This should never take more than 40 minutes . 30 minute is goal time .
Idea is to take about a minute in between sets and keep going .
Then after weights you do cardio for 20 to 40 minutes not to surpass more than 1 hour or so in the gym .
220 - 43 = 177/65% = 115 as heart rate goal . or you can go up to 75 % ,

This was a simple example and much easier to accomplish .
Your Am cardio will do much better , just not sure how enthused you will be later to push weights .

Any way good luck and look forward to seeing results

[CHUCKYthentic]

great advice. im gonna have to say i agree with most of what you said. agreed on lowering the test dose and gonna have to say i agree with dropping the dbol for the same reasons

if anything, frontload with prop. on that note, what are your goals for this cycle?

pct needs some tweaking too

[Bossman]

I didnt start cycling until I was 42. We're young!

You should have a longer PCT, min 4 weeks. 600mg test is not too much for your size IMO. I would also drop the Dbol. What concerns me is that your BF% is too high. I would spend a few weeks (4+) to get yourself closer to 15% or less with diet and cardio alone. This will also help prime your body for the upcoming cycle. And extending the cycle for 12 weeks would be a good idea for a slow esther.

I use NO products before workouts and notice the difference. I sweat more and have more energy when using them. Perfect for losing weight.

[bigpaul66]

Great advice so far thank you gents. As for my workout, since my week is busy, I lift on Tuesday, Thursday, Sat and Sunday afternoons late. Each body part only once a week so think I am ok there, so as to Dont wanna be olds portion of feedback, I think I am ok. CGB, I am cardio machine now to do as you said and I agree, need to tuck some.

My reply questions would be for more clarification on the NO Xplode or nitrogen use and handles. Can you elaborate or give me a link relating to comment, first I have heard?

And all seem to say no dBol front loading, I could use some clarification there as all my knowledge to date supports Test not hooking up till about week 4 to 6, and dBol at 40 mg/day for 4 weeks is used to jump start the cycle. As for lenghth of cycle going 12, I prefer 10 only for varioius reasons, but if you read the article I posted by Ronnie about reloading and deloading, you can see why I want to go 10 weeks max.

Ronnies article, good stuff: http://forums.steroid.com/showthread.php?t=402776

I look forward to the replies to above regarding dBol and NO explode and appreciate very much the information from you guys, whom surely are more up to date real world then with my mostly reading knowledge as of late.

As for the question about past cycles, no injections last few years, only did anavar only cycles with some clen when cutting up around late spring. Not a crazy user and do not plan on using more than a single cycle yearly (well, other than maybe clen/avavar or something around summer). If goes well, next Dec I might repeat this cycle above and throw in some EQ (depending on my response and results).

Thanks a ton guys, look forward to your replies and any others.

Peace.

The old guy

[bigpaul66]

Sorry about picture just posted recent one, will get one with tank or shirt off to better show physic, but this is me recently in photo, in case anyone was curious. Not arnold by any means, but at 43 just keeping up with the Jones. Thanks again for replies, I will be checking repeadly for more over the weekend.

Paul

[bigpaul66]

Apologize, look like picture might take a bit to post due to new member.

[bigpaul66]

Actually my friend (Don't wanna be old), I really do not see alot of difference in last 5 years. Minor perhaps but not enough to put my finger on it. Now say ten years ago, yes I have to agree. Seems last 5 years from 38 to 43, I have not dropped much on weights, soreness, motivation, recover, etc. Most of this time all natural, though did do a few clen/anavar cycles. I tend to get mild right shoulder pain and right elbow tentenitis and this helps with that as well. I do not think 600/week of Test E will be too much, after all I have been training albeit mostly naturally for years and do weight over 250lbs. Blood pressure, cholestrol, etc all checked recently and looks stellar, even better than normal. Doctor said had better numbers than most half my age, so I think that is good sign. Nevertheless, I am using caution and approaching this cycle to the letter as far as precautions go (I hope). Workout wise, I do stick to the basics mostely and leave room for recovery. I have a hard time jumping on cardio after working out, and if I do weights and cardio after in the am, I surely will find myself wanting to eat pre workout, so the split routine helps me accomplish both early cardio on empty stomack right out of bed, and the evening workout allows me a small brown rice/chicken breast bowl pre workout.

Thaks for your reply, it is appreciated.

[DS21]

Do you not eat post workout? Reading your last post, it sounds as if you don't? IMO, that is one of the most important meals, even if it's right before bed.

I think the concern with the Dbol and NO product is about blood pressure. Anyone over 20% BF have a higher chance of having high blood pressure and both of those, Dbol and No xplode, can increase it.

[Bossman]

There are many ways to cycle. I believe that gains do slow after a period of time unless you continue to change or add compounds. But, you need to continue to train hard and continue AAS use so that your body will acclimate itself to the new gains you've gotten on cycle. Your body does not like change. You have to give it a new set point and that takes time. Also, with long esthers, like you said, they take time to kick in. Using Test E, you could train in a calorie deficit for 3-4 weeks losing weight, and then add calories back in when the test kicks in to start gaining quality mass after 4 weeks on.

Your goal to add muscle and lose weight is going to be very tough. When I prep for a contest (losing weight while saving muscle) Im taking in an array of AAS, GH and other compounds and have never gained any muscle while cutting. The goal is to lose as little muscle as possible, not gain. Granted, my goal is for a very low BF%. I would pick one or another. Cut first IMO as your BF is a little high.

Some believe that if they're taking AAS, that OTC products like NO Explode do not offer enough benefit for the money. That's what he meant by adding the lightweight door handles, as they make no difference. I definitely notice the difference in the quality of my workout when taking a quality NO product. Try it and see for yourself.

[bigpaul66]

DS21, I see your point but my blood pressure is in check. I do eat pre and post work out in the afternoons, just not in the AM before cardio. Keep in mind, my goal is not and never will be at 43 to be shreadded and 6 percent bodyfat or less and taking a stage, just fit well above my years, and yes to have the mass. I will break down today's eating and it is not much diff each day as I have no problem eating for function not for taste, and with my schedule redunant meals are better for me.

Every 5 days I make a crock pot of brown rice and 4 large chicken breasts skinless backed, cut them in have and put them with one cup of brown rice in 8 seperate containers for reheating, right there is two of my meals each day. I probably do shake supplements more than most would recommend, but its ok for my goals I think.

Today:

6:00am, Cardio on empty stomach, supplements only.

7:30am: Oats with raisins, flax seed oil, tablespoon purified psyllium husk and scoop of protein in it... one bowl morning fix.

9:30am: Isopure low carb shake, water and 1/4 cup milk. (55 grams proteim total)

12:00pm: one of my brown rice and chicken bowls, 1 cup raw brocolli (again, I add small amount of soy sauce for flavor where most would not touch it, again my goals allow me this)

2:30pm: another Isopure shake

5:30pm: another brown rice/chicken (1 cup cooked rice, 1/2 of a breast cut up)

6:00pm: Lifting if a lift day, otherwise nothing. Lift 4 out of 7 days each week.

8:00pm: Some form of fish, usually wild salmon with veggies, 1/2 a yam.


To be honest, it does not change much day to day. I keep I high protein bar handy always if I get a hungar pain or in a spot where I think I cant get the meal in for whatever reason, but it stays about the same... boring, but im not complaining.

Hope this clarifies some. I am waiting on more input about the dBol load as I still think with my health and blood pressure in check I need that kick start. Perhaps anavar would be a better kickstart, I don't know, but if limited to 4 weeks at 40mg ED, split morning and night, I think I should be ok... someone prove me wrong or provide link and I would love to read more.

Thanks again.

[bigpaul66]

CGB, thank for the advice, and I like the part about calorie deficit the first few weeks while Test kicks in and will probably do just that.

So, with that in mind, would then recommend the first 4 weeks knockmyself out on hard cardio in the am, then after week 4 drop the cardio down to lighter intensities but keep it going as the mass phase kicks in?

Also, do you personally see a problem with the dBol Loading for 4 weeks if my health and blood pressure is in check? Still trying to see if anyone can talk me out of it with facts as most seem to be in favor of dropping it, and I respect the posts but I am one that likes to see emperical data on a topic.... is there any?

Any other post will tell you 'you should load dBol or ?" until the test esters kick in...

thanks.

[Bossman]

You could do the Dbol if you want. But Dbol is known for producing gyno and you're already kinda high on BF. If you were to cut first, no problem.

The first time I took DBol, I had gyno syptoms after the first week.....

Yes, I like the idea of starting with a cut, and then turning it around for a mass phase. A cycle is what you make of it with diet, cardio and training.

[bigpaul66]

Hey my photo posted great...

CGB, I understand... did you notice I have .5mg EOD of aramdex in the cycle starting from the beginning up to PCT? At 250 lbs and only 40mg/day for 4 weeks, with the blocker, dont you feel I should be fine? Also have nova on hand.

[bigpaul66]

Oh by the way GCB, I posted my diet, it does not change much from that each day.. Like I said, my goals in mind, I think I am ok. Definetly doing a couple of things I would not have done in my 20's, like soy sauce or any sodium additions, and perhaps not even add milk products to shakes etc, but again, at 43 my goals are look and feel good, have some strength and mass, not overly concerned about a 6 pack. I only do a cycle per year for many reasons, usually December, and perhaps 8 weeks of anavar with clen cycled on and off ever 2 weeks for 8 weeks around May for the summer months (at the river alot). Any diet input welcomed as well. Thanks.

[bigpaul66]

perhaps replace 4 weeks of 40mg/ED of dBol with 60mg/ED of anavar for 6 weeks?

[stpete]

DS21, I see your point but my blood pressure is in check. I do eat pre and post work out in the afternoons, just not in the AM before cardio. Keep in mind, my goal is not and never will be at 43 to be shreadded and 6 percent bodyfat or less and taking a stage, just fit well above my years, and yes to have the mass. I will break down today's eating and it is not much diff each day as I have no problem eating for function not for taste, and with my schedule redunant meals are better for me.

Every 5 days I make a crock pot of brown rice and 4 large chicken breasts skinless backed, cut them in have and put them with one cup of brown rice in 8 seperate containers for reheating, right there is two of my meals each day. I probably do shake supplements more than most would recommend, but its ok for my goals I think.

Today:

6:00am, Cardio on empty stomach, supplements only.

7:30am: Oats with raisins, flax seed oil, tablespoon purified psyllium husk and scoop of protein in it... one bowl morning fix.
I suggest eggs over the shake.
9:30am: Isopure low carb shake, water and 1/4 cup milk. (55 grams proteim total)
Again, solid food.
12:00pm: one of my brown rice and chicken bowls, 1 cup raw brocolli (again, I add small amount of soy sauce for flavor where most would not touch it, again my goals allow me this)

2:30pm: another Isopure shake
Whole foods preffered.
5:30pm: another brown rice/chicken (1 cup cooked rice, 1/2 of a breast cut up)

6:00pm: Lifting if a lift day, otherwise nothing. Lift 4 out of 7 days each week.
I wouls add one of your protien shakes immediately after workout. Then dinner about 45-60 minutes later.
8:00pm: Some form of fish, usually wild salmon with veggies, 1/2 a yam.


To be honest, it does not change much day to day. I keep I high protein bar handy always if I get a hungar pain or in a spot where I think I cant get the meal in for whatever reason, but it stays about the same... boring, but im not complaining.

Hope this clarifies some. I am waiting on more input about the dBol load as I still think with my health and blood pressure in check I need that kick start. Perhaps anavar would be a better kickstart, I don't know, but if limited to 4 weeks at 40mg ED, split morning and night, I think I should be ok... someone prove me wrong or provide link and I would love to read more.

Thanks again.

You're fine w/ the d-bol bro. Your PCT needs to tighten up though.
Good luck.

[stpete]

I forgot to put my responses in bold but their in there if you read your post again in my post. Sorry man. Damn it!

[Bossman]

The adex will help alot. I would actually start it a week before you start the dbol. Im really gyno prone so I run this every cycle.

I took a look at your diet but its hard for me to extrapolate the amount of total protein and carbs your getting. You want at least 400 grams of protein ED spread out evenly to ensure your not losing muscle. You want to use your diet to speed up your metabolism. You should be eating carbs from meal one up to dinner but not later. If you dont get enough, your metabolism will slow down and you will stop losing weight. I would start with 250 grams of carbs ED and monitor your progress. When you switch to your clean bulk, you will want to up your carbs. 400 grams would be a good starting point.

Remember you need to monitor the direction you're heading. If you're losing more then 2 lbs a week, add carbs or cut cardio. Likewise with weight gain.

Before you hit the bed, take in a form of protein. If a shake, no carbs but make sure there is some casein in it to slow digestion.

[bigpaul66]

Got it Pete thanks.. PCT is clomid 2 weeks after last test E shot, 300 mg day one, next ten days at 100 mg ED, then another ten days at 50 mg ED.

What do you recommend? I am on arimdex .5 EOD on cycle as well, with Nova on hand.

[bigpaul66]

Good info CG, and I had that in the back of mind to do after ready some other posts... I should change up last two meals and end with protem shake.

[stpete]

Got it Pete thanks.. PCT is clomid 2 weeks after last test E shot, 300 mg day one, next ten days at 100 mg ED, then another ten days at 50 mg ED.

What do you recommend? I am on arimdex .5 EOD on cycle as well, with Nova on hand.

My laptop is acting up. Don't do 300mgs of clomid bro. That's just ridiculous. I'd be in the nuthouse if i did that. haha...
I forgot to mention that i would run the test for 12 weeks. Ronnie's a wealth of knowledge and i'm not saying he's wrong, or i'm right, but i think 12 weeks with a long ester. I can see his point of view on a short ester like prop and npp. I think that would be fine.

Never used armidex and i'm not gyno prone. Your best bet is to head over to the PCT section and get ideas there. I hate clomid but i use it sparringly coupled w/ nolva.

Clomid
100/40/20/20
Nolva
40/40/40/20

It's close to the recommended usage and i find that it's enough for me. I wish i could drop the clomid altogether but they do work good together. I took clomid by itself years ago and i almost went crazy bro. Crying at every little thing that went wrong and generally just feeling like a big *****. But some people are fine w/ it. Trial and error my friend.

[Dont wanna be old]

You sound like you have solid knowledge of what your doing .
I believe the D-bol is ok , But believe you will do fine with out . The tendinitis and any shoulder aches would appreciate a study gain in strength and not a rapid one .

If your looking for some good eats to fill meals along way you can include :

Natural peanut butter
Walnuts
almonds
Beans
peas
Dried appricots

If chicken gets boring throw a sliced or mashed avocado on it . Good fat and calories .
Also get hummus to mix with chicken or fish . if made with extra virgin oil .

Diet will be more successful by enjoying it also .

[bigpaul66]

I will try that on the chicken, thanks. I did not mention but I give my self a cheat day, albeit not much of cheating just one meal I will go whereever I feel and get whatever I want within reason. Seems from everyones post I should be fine as I thought, but going to incorporate a tad from each response, such as PCT alteration possibly from Pete, and maybe doing the hard cardio until the Test E kicks in, for first three weeks or so.

Great info and I appreciate all the input.

The old guy trying to keep and feel young.

[Dont wanna be old]

The reason you don't wanna do cardio in AM is the hard core ladies are in there W/O make up and they haven't accessorized .
Later in the after noon you get the cougars , milf's , ladies that are bored and lonely , the women who wanna look appealing .



Didn't wanna sound to serious .

Enjoy the cycle and gain more than you expected .

[DS21]

Got it Pete thanks.. PCT is clomid 2 weeks after last test E shot, 300 mg day one, next ten days at 100 mg ED, then another ten days at 50 mg ED.

What do you recommend? I am on arimdex .5 EOD on cycle as well, with Nova on hand.

I personally will always run an AI and a Serm for PCT. So the clomid can work for the Serm and you can even use your arimadex through pct, although I prefer aromasin.

[bigpaul66]

Oh and I hear ya Pete on the gyno prone, I do not think I am either from prior uses, but a good point was made about starting the program a tad high on the fat percentage side, so I will watch it and probably postponed the cycle start for a few weeks and shread down to at least 15 percent BF... its good advice and I really knew this but more less ignored it. You know, once you get the gear in hand you wanna rip into it, but I will shelf it and use discipline and start mid January or so. After I drop say 15 pounds. I am about 260 but carry it well, big boned and large major muscle groups naturally (blessed with thighs like a oak tree from years of football). Therefore will try to start cycle around 245... 230 would be very lean for me, so 15 pounds out of that I think should be ok, but as always will monitor signs and progress. When all said and done maybe I will post some before and afters if anyone is interested on a 43 year old guys before and after states.

Take care.

[bigpaul66]

LOL, thats good advice but.... I have a full blown gym at my house, everything I need and to be honest much of what the gym does not have. I would get nothing done if I went to the gym because of those damn ladies!

[bigpaul66]

I personally will always run an AI and a Serm for PCT. So the clomid can work for the Serm and you can even use your arimadex through pct, although I prefer aromasin.

I hear you DS, and that makes sense too, but I have my hands on aram/clomid/nova right now so probably just work those in during and after the cycle. Think I should be fine, it is really a novice cycle per se and I would half expect that if I had no nova/aram I would be ok and fine with post treatment only, just playing it safe with the Arimadex as I know it will also assist with any bloating. Thanks for the info.