New and need some advice

**DwnfromOz** · 01-05-2010, 07:00 AM

Hey guys,

Im new to A/s and have been researching on and of for the past 6 months.

Im 23, 3 months and ill be 24.Ive currently been hitting the gym and lifting weights for the past 16months. I believe i am fairly deciplined hitting the weights 4 to 6 times a week, i have trained on and off with a P/T and have been strict dieting from start to current.

My dilema is, im finding alot of advice to be conflicting. Some say that 23-24yrs is far to young to start A/s.

My stats are:

Male,23yrs
172 cms
73kgs
13-14% Bf

Ive been comtemplating whether to try a cycle for the first time, consisting of Primoteston 250 @ 500mgs aweek for 10weeks.

I have researched and read many topics on Pct. I can get Genox 10(Tamoxifen Citrate 10mgs) (Aparrently its the Oz version of Novaldex) I also can get Clomid, just unaware of the brand etc atm. Can post once i know.

I was just wondering if i am really to young to start a cycle. As i have been told that 500mgsof Primo a week is a fairly mild cycle, tho i am fully aware of the side effects etc.

If i was to start a first cycle is would look like this.

Primo, 2 shots a week, 1 Sunday 250mgs and 1 Wednesday 250mgs for 10 weeks. With Genox (nolva) on hand incase of Gyno.

Than 2 weeks after my last shot, start my pct using the Genox (nolva) only at 40/40/20/20. This is where more confusion is at, becuase i have read that you can get away with running Tamo only? The clomid i can get is in liquid form and apparently has to be watered down, so you can shoot it at lower dose, over the 7 days.

Any info and Suggestions would be great, and if things dont add up, im in no rush.

Cheers

**gonzo6183** · 01-05-2010, 07:44 AM

Not sure what that clomid is mate but you should not be injecting it...

A first cycle is recommended to be 400 to 500mg a week of either test E or C with an optional 4 week kick start of dbol . This is the basic begginers cycle but you would need a full PCT of Nolva and clomid and an AI on hand would be a good idea.

As for the age ill leave a few other guys to find out more.

Gonzo

**Bossman** · 01-05-2010, 08:08 AM

The primoteston is Test E. 500mgs per week would be a suggested 1st cycle. You should see good gains provided your training and diet are on point. I would extend the cycle to 12 weeks. It takes 4 weeks before the test will kick in competely.

You are nearly 24 so age is really not an issue. My problem is that you have not been lifting for much more then a year. Before starting AAS use, you should have nearly exhausted all natural gains. With your short period of training, you should have much more room to grow before you would need AAS. Starting AAS now will give you a boost but possibly limit the overall size you could attain if you wait until you can not grow naturally.

**DwnfromOz** · 01-05-2010, 05:46 PM

Originally Posted by gonzo3816

Not sure what that clomid is mate but you should not be injecting it...

A first cycle is recommended to be 400 to 500mg a week of either test E or C with an optional 4 week kick start of dbol . This is the basic begginers cycle but you would need a full PCT of Nolva and clomid and an AI on hand would be a good idea.

As for the age ill leave a few other guys to find out more.

Gonzo

Thanks for the reply Gonzo,

Primoteston 250 is a Test E and would be taking at 500mg a week for 10-12 weeks.

The Clomid is another story tho, apparently we can not get the pill form here in Oz, we can only get the generic version, which is apparently a liquid. This is coming from someone i think i can trust 110%.

Tho, ill find out more about it.

**bigpapabuff** · 01-05-2010, 05:54 PM

you can get all your pct chems like clomid and nolva from arr, they are the board sponsor here, no need for generic otc supplements.

**DwnfromOz** · 01-05-2010, 06:07 PM

Originally Posted by cgb6810

The primoteston is Test E. 500mgs per week would be a suggested 1st cycle. You should see good gains provided your training and diet are on point. I would extend the cycle to 12 weeks. It takes 4 weeks before the test will kick in competely.

You are nearly 24 so age is really not an issue. My problem is that you have not been lifting for much more then a year. Before starting AAS use, you should have nearly exhausted all natural gains. With your short period of training, you should have much more room to grow before you would need AAS. Starting AAS now will give you a boost but possibly limit the overall size you could attain if you wait until you can not grow naturally.

Thanks for the reply,

If i was to start my cycle, i would be training with a very reputable P/T who has plenty knowledge of bodybuilding and sports nutrition from personal experience over many years, and im willing to put in 110% to maximise any gains and results i can get it and hold onto them.

How long do you guys recommend training in the gym naturally before starting your first cycle, i have read many members saying they have trained for 4,5,6+ years and are only starting now to experiment with AAS. Tho, these guys are well and truely into there 30's. I can't find anywhere X amount of years is the base line, before thinking of starting AAS.

I do think that in the last year+, i have made some quite solid gains, by sticking to my dieting and a fairly solid split training program. Tho as we all do, i would like to push my training and results i can achieve to the max.

Thanks again guys for your input

**DwnfromOz** · 01-05-2010, 06:12 PM

Originally Posted by bigpapabuff

you can get all your pct chems like clomid and nolva from arr, they are the board sponsor here, no need for generic otc supplements.

Hey,

What you guys can get, and what we can get is totally different with our (Australia) laws and customs etc.

If we ordered anything like that it would be more than likely stopped at the front line and confiscated and destroyed

**dec11** · 01-05-2010, 06:18 PM

Originally Posted by DwnfromOz

Thanks for the reply,

If i was to start my cycle, i would be training with a very reputable P/T who has plenty knowledge of bodybuilding and sports nutrition from personal experience over many years, and im willing to put in 110% to maximise any gains and results i can get it and hold onto them.

How long do you guys recommend training in the gym naturally before starting your first cycle, i have read many members saying they have trained for 4,5,6+ years and are only starting now to experiment with AAS. Tho, these guys are well and truely into there 30's. I can't find anywhere X amount of years is the base line, before thinking of starting AAS.

I do think that in the last year+, i have made some quite solid gains, by sticking to my dieting and a fairly solid split training program. Tho as we all do, i would like to push my training and results i can achieve to the max.

Thanks again guys for your input

i would put all my faith in that, some PT's have given shocking advice to some on here, im a PT aswell and have worked with some dodgy PT's b4. dont forget they want your hard earned cash. you'll get the best advice you can trust from the reputable members in here. as stated above you need to be training longer to build your base, it doesnt matter if ronnie coleman is training you, you still need tht base. stay around here and learn, good luck

**DwnfromOz** · 01-06-2010, 12:11 AM

Cheers guys,

As for the P/T's, ive known them for a couple of years and get on good with them in the gym and out, so i guess its not like just meeting a P/T and training with them for a couple of weeks, than putting all faith into there advice and what not.

Ive also researched a fair bit into the Nurtition side of things myself, as i know this is no easy walk in the park and takes alot of time and dedication.

Ive decided to put the cycle of for a little while, not sure how long, maybe a month or so, just so i can research abit more and get as much advise as i can.

I will in no way be starting a cycle untill i have everything needed. Full course of Test E,Genox (Nolva) for the gyno and Genox and Clomid for my PCT, as well as all the other non pharm supplements.

Thanks again

**gonzo6183** · 01-06-2010, 12:39 AM

By the way you can get liquid clomid (from what I hear, not seen) but DO NOT infect it, it is still to be taken orally

**DwnfromOz** · 01-06-2010, 03:15 AM

As for the Clomid im still researching. Apparently if you take Pregnyl 5000iu Hcg made Orgegon and Nolva this can be a sufficient Pct? I did a quick search,and there is not much about this type of Pct

How would you dilute this down instead of taking this 1 shot a week? Someone suggested to water it down with Bac water. I think i read somewhere that 500iu a day for the last for weeks of your cycle than starting Nolva 2 weeks after the last shot is quite sufficient?

This is also a injectable not a Oral.

Also, why am i reading so much conflicting information about Pct? I have read that Nolva and Clomid are basically the same thing, tho Nolva is a little better with less sides than Clomid. Why do so many people take both than, instead of just the Nolva? Is it so your not taking such high does of nolva as this would contribute more to the chance of getting side effects?

I read somewhere someone saying that Nolva @ 20/20/20/20/20/20 is more than sufficient for Pct, but than they later on went on to say that they use both nolva and Clomid?

Sorry guys, new to this and want to research as much as i can before i decide on anything.

**sigman roid** · 01-06-2010, 08:04 AM

Have a read of this
Tamoxifen, Clomid, Toremifene and Rolaxifene. Which for what?

**Bossman** · 01-06-2010, 02:03 PM

Originally Posted by DwnfromOz

Thanks for the reply,

If i was to start my cycle, i would be training with a very reputable P/T who has plenty knowledge of bodybuilding and sports nutrition from personal experience over many years, and im willing to put in 110% to maximise any gains and results i can get it and hold onto them.

How long do you guys recommend training in the gym naturally before starting your first cycle, i have read many members saying they have trained for 4,5,6+ years and are only starting now to experiment with AAS. Tho, these guys are well and truely into there 30's. I can't find anywhere X amount of years is the base line, before thinking of starting AAS.

I do think that in the last year+, i have made some quite solid gains, by sticking to my dieting and a fairly solid split training program. Tho as we all do, i would like to push my training and results i can achieve to the max.

Thanks again guys for your input

You see, you have made some good gains in this last year. Do you think you won't make good gains this year?

It's best to maximize your natural potential before you start AAS. You may even reach your goals without the use of AAS. If you could gain 30lbs with the use of AAS, wouldn't you want that 30 lbs to be above your natural limit which may be much larger then you are now? IF you start now, you may only add 30 lbs to what you have. I know plenty of guys who start AAS the minute they first started to train. They never gain the size they had hoped for.

Continue to train naturally and continue to learn about training and diet. There is an enormous amount of information out there. Then, when and if you do start AAS use, you will truly be able to maximize its use.

**DwnfromOz** · 01-07-2010, 04:58 AM

Thanks for your input guys, ive been doing alot of reading and have decided that im not going to doing a cycle.

As many of you have stated ive only been training for a year and i am still pretty young have no where near reached my full natural potential. I have made some quite solid gains in the last year sticking to a good routine and diet.

I would like to work on making the most solid base possible and in the future work from there with my options.

I will stick around tho and read and take in as much knowledge as possible.

once again, thanks to those who directed me in the right direction.