Maintaing a lot of mass 24/7...

[corsa5000]

no ive still got 8 weeks left of my cycle, but dammit i didnt wanna here i wont be able to maintain it , but im only 19 years old so will that help allow me to maintain it?

What is wrong with you? when i read your log and you said you were starting another cycle pretty much immediately i thought it was stupid but thought you were old enough to not endanger fvcking things up bigtime, i wondered why you never put your age in your stats, i would get off the gear for a couple of years bro.

[Bossman]

Depends on diet,, yea if you raise your caloric intake and keep it liek that you will maintain some weight

Maintain the same weight, yes. Maintain the same amount muscle mass while on cycle, no.

This is my opinion and my experience. Not trying to piss anyone off with these statements. This thread is interesting so far.

[Immortal Soldier]

obviously caloric intake plays a huge role..... but there is a point to where you just can't eat anymore. 4000 calories may not be "insane" for some people but I gotta force food down my gullet to go over that.

~Haz~

Its actually not good eating 4000 calories ALL THE TIME, because it forces the organs to work extra processing everything

[Hazard]

Its actually not good eating 4000 calories ALL THE TIME, because it forces the organs to work extra processing everything

EXACTLY.....

how the hell are you going to eat 4000+ calories a day while on cycle trying to put on weight..... then go into PCT and increase calories more......

No matter how you slice it..... if you come off long enough.... you're going to lose size.

~Haz~

[chuckt12345]

Maintain the same weight, yes. Maintain the same amount muscle mass while on cycle, no.

This is my opinion and my experience. Not trying to piss anyone off with these statements. This thread is interesting so far.

oh i def agree

[Kdub]

Regarding pro dosages..... take this for what it's worth.....

I asked a pro if a dosage of 4grams of test a week is in the ball park of what one might take...... he asked me if I wanted to have a heart attack. He said it's way too much and it's more like half that.....

I asked another pro the same question..... he said he knows guys that have gone to 3 grams a week and knows of one guy who ran 5 grams a week but he looked terrible. He said 5 grams a week is WAAAYYYYY too much.

Will we ever truely know......? Nope.....

~Haz~

Yes, we will never know. Part of the reason why is because each pro is different. Some will take 2,000+ mgs per day and some will do well with only 4-5,000 mgs per week.

From what I saw and experienced, each pro or any ole bodybuilder needs to find his sweet spot with AAS, food, training and recovery. It appears guys like Dorian, Ronnie and Jay have found this perfect balance.

Jay might do well with only 10 ius of GH per day, like Propinate at 1,000 mgs per day, and respond extremely well to Primobolan at 900 mgs per week.

Ronnie might like Enanthate instead at 2,000 mgs per day, 30 iu GH per day, reject Primobolan but love Equipoise at 500 mg per day.

Dorian might have done well at 15 iu GH per day and had a body that responded well to lots of test (2000 mgs a day) and tren (200 mgs a day) and found this body respon and anadrol (300 mgs per day) and also had a fondness for EPO. Coupled with HIT training and maybe 700 gram of protein a day mostly from turkey and cod. He also might have not liked a lot of carbs as his HIT low volume training did not require more than 350 grams per day.

When I was pursuing BB'ing professionally, we heard rumours that Weider was always on the lookout for the next great thing. He located a potential in Aussie. The guy was young had great genetics, blah blah blah, and had lots of room to grow. Weider did a muscle biopsy on the guy and through testing, discovered what AAS and the amounts were right for this guy or what enhancers were optimum.

A year later the guy dropped out for whatever reason. Too much stress? Health failed? Lost interest? Is the biopsy true?

We will never know...

[Kdub]

Ok so this leads to a noob question,

So in short are you guys saying that the body will go back to what it can naturally sustain, which I guess in short could be you natural plateau ... is this true ?

I don't think so. I think (and from my experience) if a guy can do a 16 week cycle and be strict about it in all aspects, this gives the body enough time and a signal to run a new base line for survival and this means to maintain the new muscle.

Come off, keep training and eating properly, and you will keep quite a bit of the muscle. Most of the gains will be permanent however, don't expect to be pumped and razor sharp like you were on cycle.

16 weeks seems to be a "magical" number for lasting gains in size and strength - so long as you keep it all going and not fall off the wagon - but even then, you will have muscle memory.

Kevin Leverone did a natural comback video on You Tube. Can't recall all the data but he got back up to 245 from 200 or 205 over 8-10 weeks I think. No way in hell did he look anywhere close to his professional days but he did put on size.

The crank makes a guy look really good, over the top good. Unless a guy has a fast metabolism and naturally high levels of test, he is going to appear flat (flabby) and "watery".

Clenbuterol for me is a wonder drug. It is very anti-catabolic for me and gives me incredible strength. I find the sweet spot for me is 120-160 mgs per day and with a higher carb diet, I get extremely full and my bodyfat decreases dramatically. It is like being on cycle.

At age 22 and only using Clenbuterol, I could do 1200 lbs standing calf raises. Full stack was 1000 lbs plus my training partner sitting on the should part. at that time i also did barbel shrugs with 700 lbs, one set for 7-8 reps. Spine compression was a serious issue especially with the calf raises. Don't think I ever took an exercise more serious than this particular one with this particular weight.

13 years later and with zero Clen or anything in my system, I can shrug 5 plates for 3 sets 6-8 reps and standing calf raises with anything less than 500 lbs is a warm up.

I am amazed that nobody else has reported incredible strength gains from Clen. My training partner and long time friend, a 200m and 400m sprinter at a body weight of 170 lbs, 6 feet tall, could shrug 600 lbs on just Clen.

So, to make a long story short, build it on AAS, maintain it naturally and then find that nice combination or "one trick pony" that makes you look great. For me its clenbuterol and I gotta tell ya, I am excited about trying Anavar for the first time. Been 13 years since last cycle and I begin this weekend. Should be a hoot.

[NVR2BIG1]

I've been cycling on/off now for almost 11 years. I am 30 yrs old. If you have not done steroids before, you better think long and hard about what you want out of life long term. Because here is where the problems begin; cycle after cycle your natural levels fall shorter and shorter, especially as you close in on 30 yrs old. Sure, people are going to talk about PCT, and do this or that to get your levels back to normal. But over time, normal isn't normal anymore, so when your not on cycle you have a harder time burning fat than Natural Joe, you dont have a good sense of well being like you should unless your cycling test usually, and gains come to an end. If your running 750 mg/wk of test, 50 mg/day dbol, and 600 mg/wk of EQ, what would make you think that you would surpass that naturally? Or maintain that much naturally? You wont, and dont let anybody else tell you different. Once you are hitting 240-250 lbs at under 12% bf or so, for most the only thing thats going to push that envelope further is Growth Hormone.


As for myself, this is probably my 25th cycle I'm on right now, there is no coming back. I came off for a solid 6 months and it was enough to tell me I've hit a fork in the road. So I'm back on cycle now, and will most likely use HRT dosages the rest of my life. This is not a choice anymore, I HAVE TO in order to have any quality of life, because I've cycled enough to screw it up naturally. If you've never cycled before, just think long and hard. It'll never be just 1 cycle, trust me

[NVR2BIG1]

One thing I forgot to mention, my levels are going to fall off naturally in my 30's anyways, so I'm at the point that it does not bother me as much running a small dosage all the time.

[hunterwells]

some might consider this a stupid question, but humor me....so the muscle mass and strength gained while on a cycle will be completely lost in the months following pct? Does that mean that all of the hard work put towards increasing muscularity and strength while on a cycle will be for nothing 6 months down the line? seems pretty discouraging....

[NVR2BIG1]

some might consider this a stupid question, but humor me....so the muscle mass and strength gained while on a cycle will be completely lost in the months following pct? Does that mean that all of the hard work put towards increasing muscularity and strength while on a cycle will be for nothing 6 months down the line? seems pretty discouraging....

you will keep some if you plan on cycling again in 3-5 months, it doesn't go away overnight

[hunterwells]

you will keep some if you plan on cycling again in 3-5 months, it doesn't go away overnight

lets say i never want to cycle again, is that strength and mass eventually going to disappear regardless of diet or intensity of training?

[youngerlion]

What is wrong with you? when i read your log and you said you were starting another cycle pretty much immediately i thought it was stupid but thought you were old enough to not endanger fvcking things up bigtime, i wondered why you never put your age in your stats, i would get off the gear for a couple of years bro.

agreed

[Immortal Soldier]

When I was pursuing BB'ing professionally, we heard rumours that Weider was always on the lookout for the next great thing. He located a potential in Aussie. The guy was young had great genetics, blah blah blah, and had lots of room to grow. Weider did a muscle biopsy on the guy and through testing, discovered what AAS and the amounts were right for this guy or what enhancers were optimum.

A year later the guy dropped out for whatever reason. Too much stress? Health failed? Lost interest? Is the biopsy true?

We will never know...

The next "great" thing, is that kid in Germany that is missing both Mysotatin genes (both his parents were fitness professionals who were missing one and he was born with neither). The kid shall be great, i am sure all of you seen pictures of him as a young toddler. He will grow muscle just sitting on the couch eating potato chips lol imagine what steroids and lifting will do to his body once he gets through puberty.

"In 1999, a former professional sprinter gave birth to a bouncing baby boy in Berlin, Germany. For the past 4 years the baby boy has had a somewhat normal life - that is until researchers found out about him.

Researchers are not releasing much information and the family wishes to remain private. What they will say is that the boy is able to hold weights weighing nearly 10 pounds out to his side with his arms completely extended. Most adults have trouble doing this with half that weight. At 4 years old, the boy is extremely muscular displaying bulging calves and biceps. His muscle mass is twice that of normal 4 year old children and his fat content one half as much. He is as near a perfect specimen of man as you can possibly get. "

http://www.abovetopsecret.com/forum/thread116459/pg1

[ranging1]

What is wrong with you? when i read your log and you said you were starting another cycle pretty much immediately i thought it was stupid but thought you were old enough to not endanger fvcking things up bigtime, i wondered why you never put your age in your stats, i would get off the gear for a couple of years bro.

good pic up on stats, yea ur right and i was aware of this before i started cycling

[Bossman]

I've been cycling on/off now for almost 11 years. I am 30 yrs old. If you have not done steroids before, you better think long and hard about what you want out of life long term. Because here is where the problems begin; cycle after cycle your natural levels fall shorter and shorter, especially as you close in on 30 yrs old. Sure, people are going to talk about PCT, and do this or that to get your levels back to normal. But over time, normal isn't normal anymore, so when your not on cycle you have a harder time burning fat than Natural Joe, you dont have a good sense of well being like you should unless your cycling test usually, and gains come to an end. If your running 750 mg/wk of test, 50 mg/day dbol, and 600 mg/wk of EQ, what would make you think that you would surpass that naturally? Or maintain that much naturally? You wont, and dont let anybody else tell you different. Once you are hitting 240-250 lbs at under 12% bf or so, for most the only thing thats going to push that envelope further is Growth Hormone.


As for myself, this is probably my 25th cycle I'm on right now, there is no coming back. I came off for a solid 6 months and it was enough to tell me I've hit a fork in the road. So I'm back on cycle now, and will most likely use HRT dosages the rest of my life. This is not a choice anymore, I HAVE TO in order to have any quality of life, because I've cycled enough to screw it up naturally. If you've never cycled before, just think long and hard. It'll never be just 1 cycle, trust me

Very well put!

Guys that I know who eventually went on trt (some in their 20's) were soft, having a hard time working out, and depressed. That's off cycle after being on cycle. The only way they can continue with some quality of life is being forever on test.

[anabolic1979]

they prob just keep upping the dosage until they get the results they want everyone is different. i cant imagine anyone taking way more than they need to get the size they need all that would do is give more neg sides. some pros take more than others im sure there are some that time stupid amounts and others that take smaller amounts. Thats their job if it were me i would take what i need ed to win but i would find the smallest amount i needed to get the job done.

[Swifto]

I happen to know one of the UK's most successful strongmen. He cruised on 250-500mg/wk inbetween cycling. He went as high as 2g-3g/wk Test but said the sides became too much. They far outweighed the gains. But for others, thats not tha case.

He cycled at around 1.5-2g Test and through in Deca at 900mg/wk and orals such as Dbol 100mg/ED and Anadrol 200mg/ED. Also USA brand GH. His best friend (another UK strongman thats gone into MMA) also cycled very similar. Not dosed much higer. He went to the final of WSM in 2008.

The closest I have ever heard about IFBB doses in from Big A at PM.com and other members who have trained top national level competitors and some IFBB's. There all in agreement that most IFBB's cruise on 1g-1.5g/wk Test, throw in other compounds and run 20-30ius GH everyday. The list of meds to keep the sides down and doses is more dangerous than the AAS!

[Vitruvian-Man]

The list of meds to keep the sides down and doses is more dangerous than the AAS!

That's the scary part.

BP pressure controls, cholesterol meds, thyroid replacement, etc, etc....

All those drugs aiding in regulating your system while on these mega dosages can be very dangerous and harmful to the body.

[chuckt12345]

cant see there live spans being very long

[Immortal Soldier]

I happen to know one of the UK's most successful strongmen. He cruised on 250-500mg/wk inbetween cycling. He went as high as 2g-3g/wk Test but said the sides became too much. They far outweighed the gains. But for others, thats not tha case.

He cycled at around 1.5-2g Test and through in Deca at 900mg/wk and orals such as Dbol 100mg/ED and Anadrol 200mg/ED. Also USA brand GH. His best friend (another UK strongman thats gone into MMA) also cycled very similar. Not dosed much higer. He went to the final of WSM in 2008.

The closest I have ever heard about IFBB doses in from Big A at PM.com and other members who have trained top national level competitors and some IFBB's. There all in agreement that most IFBB's cruise on 1g-1.5g/wk Test, throw in other compounds and run 20-30ius GH everyday. The list of meds to keep the sides down and doses is more dangerous than the AAS!

How do they afford all this? Do sponsors pay for it? I mean the average bodybuilder doesn't make that much money.

cant see there live spans being very long

We'll see no won't we? Flex is still alive, Ronnie is still alive, Dennis Wolf is still alive, so is Cutler, Arnold is still alive (albeit he didnt do as severe).

We will see, honestly if they make it to 80 years old then I say what they did was worth it. Who the hell wants to live till 90 years old unless medical advancements in the future make it so you don't feel like your 90 years old.

[NVR2BIG1]

How do they afford all this? Do sponsors pay for it? I mean the average bodybuilder doesn't make that much money.



We'll see no won't we? Flex is still alive, Ronnie is still alive, Dennis Wolf is still alive, so is Cutler, Arnold is still alive (albeit he didnt do as severe).

We will see, honestly if they make it to 80 years old then I say what they did was worth it. Who the hell wants to live till 90 years old unless medical advancements in the future make it so you don't feel like your 90 years old.

How do they afford it? They do crooked shit to get a fast buck or have some old queer keeping them up thats how. I'm not saying they all are, but a good handful. Like we're supposed to believe some amateur dickwad is paying 2k/month rent, food, gear, GH, car, and living the high life out in Cali on unemployment checks. Nobody wants to work anymore!!


There already is medical advances so you dont feel 90 yrs old, its called GH, hahha. But seriously, I doubt it because if there is one thing I've learned its this; you cant fool mother nature

[ranging1]

okay well apart from eventually after coming off AAS we would return to our natural genetic potential (whatever that may be)

what kind of dosages do yous think are needed to cruise or bridge on between cycles in order to maintain what u gained to some degree

im refering this to the average bodybuilder, not pro strongman and pro bodybuilders since they arent average lol


jus thought yous should look at this, its Mariusz Pudzianowski shoulder trianing

have a look at how much weight he lifts !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!11

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OZc6J89b1-E

[Twist]

I am amazed at this convo. I participated a while ago in a convo like this on this exact board and it was the other way around. It is great to see that people seem to get it.

You DO NOT have to be at a ridiculous weight and bf % to lose your gains, only above what is attainable naturally for your body.

[Hazard]

I am amazed at this convo. I participated a while ago in a convo like this on this exact board and it was the other way around. It is great to see that people seem to get it.

You DO NOT have to be at a ridiculous weight and bf % to lose your gains, only above what is attainable naturally for your body.

Off topic but..... you're lookin good in your avy man..... nice job.

~Haz~

[Swifto]

How do they afford all this? Do sponsors pay for it? I mean the average bodybuilder doesn't make that much money.

Yes.

Sponsorship and personal trainers that specialise in strongman and powerlifting. Its better money than regular PT's, far better.

The main WSM finalists will have fairly good sponsorship deals. Marius would be earning a small fortune.

[powerliftmike]

Marius would be earning a small fortune.

With his Met-Rx contract, very successful food/good stores in Poland, a few other supplement company sponsors, and being a household name in Poland..he is doing very well. The prize money is pretty much shit tho. haha