Real quick guys

[creactiveprotein]

First cycle

1) age: 23
2) 6' 220 lbs about 14% bf
3) training off and on for 5 years
4) my test is in the normal range, but nothing spectacular, this should give me a nice boost, im lucky to have a Dr thats letting me give this a try, its a quality of life thing. I do have some symptoms of hypogonadism, but total test level is 755 currently.

Cycle

500 mg test enanthate per week for 10 weeks, divided into two doses of 250mg each
Aromasin 10mg per day
500iu HCG 2X per week

Supporting supps during cycle and PCT

garlic 3000mg per day
l-arginine 2000mg per day
super b complex once per day
glucosamine/chondroitin twice per day
fish oil capsules 3000mg per day
co Q-10 100mg per day
multi vitamin once per day
vitamin D 2000IU per day
milk thistle 3000mg per day
Creatine 10g per day

PCT

HCG 500IU every other day for the first 16 days

100/100/100/50 Clomid

20mg/20mg/20mg/10mg Aromasin

3g Vit C every day split in 3 doses


Misc info

Cardio 3X per week
Weights 5X per week
1.5 gallons water per day
2500 calories per day - 300g protein 200g carbs 40g fat

IMO this cycle is near flawless, maybe im missing a few things however.

[amcon]

too much crap your taking... in the sups

just do the test

as a matter of a fact i wouldnt even do the cycle if you test is 775!!!!! and trust me at the level you dont have any hypogonadizm... bs if your doc is saying you do


any ways bro look good luck - i say dont do it

[Oakleys]

Eh, to many supps my man.

Everything else seems to be good though.

Be careful. Read some more.

[creactiveprotein]

too much crap your taking... in the sups

just do the test

as a matter of a fact i wouldnt even do the cycle if you test is 775!!!!! and trust me at the level you dont have any hypogonadizm... bs if your doc is saying you do


any ways bro look good luck - i say dont do it

Well there is no other explanation for low libido, soft muscles, anxiety at times, I look and feel "soft" all the time, my free test level may be real low, I did not get that checked. My friends explode with muscle growth in the gym, i've stayed the same size and training is top notch, protein 300mg day, etc. I figure one cycle is worth a try.

[Mr.Rose]

Firstly, yes you are a bit young, but that aside, you have a great cycle planned out. One thing i would change is take the aromasin EOD instead of ED and your sweet.

I like the large amount of supps, all important, expect for garlicand q-10, they are just additions, but everything else is good.

What are you looking for in this cycle? Bulking? If so then your calories are waaaay to low IMHO.

Also up the vitamin C. I like 10-12 grams a day, but you dont have to go that high, i would go 2g in the morning and 2g pre-workout.

Also drop the aromasin and HCG from your PCT. Save them for on cycle. Oh and up the cycle to 12 weeks IMHO.

If your doctor is really helping you then thats great to hear. Also finally your BF is a bit to high to cycle, there will be increased risk of gyno and other issues.

[jjredd]

a little young. I know ya dont like to hear it but too young to be takin aas

[Mr.Rose]

I would never grow on 2500 cal. For bulking i like to hit 4000-5000 cal and 500-600 protein, 300+carbs and about 100-150 fat.

[jjredd]

Firstly, yes you are a bit young, but that aside, you have a great cycle planned out. One thing i would change is take the aromasin EOD instead of ED and your sweet.

I like the large amount of supps, all important, expect for garlicand q-10, they are just additions, but everything else is good.

What are you looking for in this cycle? Bulking? If so then your calories are waaaay to low IMHO.

Also up the vitamin C. I like 10-12 grams a day, but you dont have to go that high, i would go 2g in the morning and 2g pre-workout.

Also drop the aromasin and HCG from your PCT. Save them for on cycle. Oh and up the cycle to 12 weeks IMHO.

If your doctor is really helping you then thats great to hear. Also finally your BF is a bit to high to cycle, there will be increased risk of gyno and other issues.

agreed

[Mr.Rose]

There is no magic rule that says your endocrine sytem will fail at the age of 24. 23 is fine if he is getting monitored by his doctor.

[creactiveprotein]

I agree, a lot of supps, but I deem them all necessary, i do appreciated the feedback though fellas'.

garlic 3000mg per day - blood pressure, which will increase on cycle

l-arginine 2000mg per day - increase blood flow

super b complex once per day - energy, great vitamin

glucosamine/chondroitin twice per day - sore joints, injury prevention

fish oil capsules 3000mg per day - healthy heart and mind, i dont eat fish.

co Q-10 100mg per day - heart health

multi vitamin once per day - i dont eat greens or fruits really, need vitamins another way

vitamin D 2000IU per day - helps with mood, especially during the winter

milk thistle 3000mg per day - maintain top liver function

Creatine 10g per day - keeps the muscle well hydrated, not to mention its building effects.

[amcon]

Well there is no other explanation for low libido, soft muscles, anxiety at times, I look and feel "soft" all the time, my free test level may be real low, I did not get that checked. My friends explode with muscle growth in the gym, i've stayed the same size and training is top notch, protein 300mg day, etc. I figure one cycle is worth a try.

low libido can be from tons of things... soft muscles comes from not working out correctly and for the correct amout of time(you said on and off for 5 years - well, bro that will give ya soft mucles) - i was low test - free test was 70- to 100 and i was rock hard... libido was just fine.

so let me get this straight your doc is putting you on test and he didnt check your 750 test level with free and bound test? very strange

training is top notch? really - again on and off for 5 years is not considered top notch.

your friends explode with muscle growth ??? what does that mean? they are taking steroids ? cuz with out them they def are not exploding with growth... natty body building is about years and years in the gym and eating correctly

[Mr.Rose]

I didnt disagree with the sups, I think they are all important, hell i take more sups then take, both on and off cycles.

low dose sprin will help with blood pressure more then garlic. But everything else is fine.

[amcon]

I agree, a lot of supps, but I deem them all necessary, i do appreciated the feedback though fellas'.

garlic 3000mg per day - blood pressure, which will increase on cycle

l-arginine 2000mg per day - increase blood flow

super b complex once per day - energy, great vitamin

glucosamine/chondroitin twice per day - sore joints, injury prevention

fish oil capsules 3000mg per day - healthy heart and mind, i dont eat fish.

co Q-10 100mg per day - heart health

multi vitamin once per day - i dont eat greens or fruits really, need vitamins another way

vitamin D 2000IU per day - helps with mood, especially during the winter

milk thistle 3000mg per day - maintain top liver function

Creatine 10g per day - keeps the muscle well hydrated, not to mention its building effects.

i would buy some elbo braces, wrist supports too, and knee and ankle brackes - might as well wear a helmet too just incase you might need them as well... get a big box of bandaids too

(sorry bro i know im being a little mean but all of the sups are a waste of money and will they be good for you, maybe, but def a waste of money for the result you will get) the creatine is the only one i wont fight you on.

[Mr.Rose]

i agree with amcon, i trained for 6 years natty and got to 110kg and i was BIG and rock hard, all from natty training. I always got accused for being on steroids , and i hated it. But now im runnign a few cycles to break my plateau.

[creactiveprotein]

Thanks for the replies. I've thought about my bodyfat as well, I may go on an 8 week cutting cycle, drop the bf to around 10% then start this cycle. As far as my age goes, I think I will be ok, i've always preached 23+ and 2 years lifting before starting PH or AAS.

[Mr.Rose]

I disagree amcon, Fishoil, multi-vit, vitamin D, Vitamin C are all EXTREMELY useful supplements, i could find you a thousand scientific studies. The rest are not proven yet (except creatine) but are fine to add if he has the money.

[amcon]

i agree with amcon, i trained for 6 years natty and got to 110kg and i was BIG and rock hard, all from natty training. I always got accused for being on steroids, and i hated it. But now im runnign a few cycles to break my plateau.

100% the correct way to use steroids ... lift for a long time hard and intense! then breat you natural maxes with the aas...

and again the sups are great if you feel they work - i did the sups in the past for years and they did nothing for me... (in regaurds to size and looks)

my blood test are just as good with out them. but they cant hurt

[creactiveprotein]

Trust me, training is proper, I take advice from IFBB pro Bob Cicherillo, one bodypart per week, as heavy as I can go 8 - 12 reps, good form, full ROM, straps with everything to isolate the bodypart being worked.

[Mr.Rose]

They wont help you gain size, but they are great for your health. Your body cannot function without vitamin D and vitamin C, they are the ONLY important anti-oxidants. vitamin B complex are extremely important too as well as fishoil (***** 3), but flax seed is better as it has ***** 3, 6, 9.

Non of those sups will make you grow, they are for general health, help with mitosis and cell growth.

[Mr.Rose]

i cant write o m e g a ??

Dont wear straps man, unless your weight is THAT high. I deadlift 250kg with no straps. Its all about wrist flexor strength. Do some wrist flexion movements and get your grip stonger.

[hankdiesel]

I don't think 23 is too young. What I don't like is you said you've been training fo five years "off and on." That could mean a lot things. The first that that comes to mind is that you are not consistent and can't stick to a workout plan. That is why you don't need steroids yet.

[amcon]

Trust me, training is proper, I take advice from IFBB pro Bob Cicherillo, one bodypart per week, as heavy as I can go 8 - 12 reps, good form, full ROM, straps with everything to isolate the bodypart being worked.

good now ask bob why you dont have hard muscles, i know him as well, and padilla, dan miller and natallies... so on and so forth

just cuz some guy tells you to do one body part a week does not make you a pro... or have a pro work out.

im not a pro and i am 10% bf i have been as low as 7%, 6 foot 3, 253 lbs - i am 8 lbs heavier now three weeks in to a bulking cycle...

if you take my advise i know i can get you to my level (big, hard and low body fat)

if you want help i will offer it up- if you dont want what will make you grow then you came to the wrong place... ask and accept the advise

i dont like your sups but wont fight you on them... you dont have the right blood test for the REASON YOU ARE SAYING YOU WANT TO JUSTIFY THE CYCLE YOU WANT TO TAKE... if you said you plan on doing this cycle cuz you want too i wouldnt fight that either... just would hope you bf was low end of the teens cuz it will help eliminate sides..


good luck

[creactiveprotein]

I don't think 23 is too young. What I don't like is you said you've been training fo five years "off and on." That could mean a lot things. The first that that comes to mind is that you are not consistent and can't stick to a workout plan. That is why you don't need steroids yet.

I agree, sometimes things get in the way, such as college and work, and at the time school/work was more important, so training was put on the back burner.

Regarding the straps - they are important even if you are using 10lb dumbbells, you want to minimize using other muscle groups, for example, doing lateral dumbbell raises, you are working the delts, using straps minimizes the amount of forearm involvement placing more emphasis on the delts. I do notice a difference, and this is common practice with many IFBB pros.

[creactiveprotein]

good now ask bob why you dont have hard muscles, i know him as well, and padilla, dan miller and natallies... so on and so forth

just cuz some guy tells you to do one body part a week does not make you a pro... or have a pro work out.

im not a pro and i am 10% bf i have been as low as 7%, 6 foot 3, 253 lbs - i am 8 lbs heavier now three weeks in to a bulking cycle...

if you take my advise i know i can get you to my level (big, hard and low body fat)

if you want help i will offer it up- if you dont want what will make you grow then you came to the wrong place... ask and accept the advise

i dont like your sups but wont fight you on them... you dont have the right blood test for the REASON YOU ARE SAYING YOU WANT TO JUSTIFY THE CYCLE YOU WANT TO TAKE... if you said you plan on doing this cycle cuz you want too i wouldnt fight that either... just would hope you bf was low end of the teens cuz it will help eliminate sides..


good luck

Thanks man I do appreciate it, im just stating what i've heard and researched. I would like your help, seems like you have a great physique, I will tell you that im not happy with mine although I do work hard in the gym. So I guess share everything you know, or advise you could give me?

[amcon]

I agree, sometimes things get in the way, such as college and work, and at the time school/work was more important, so training was put on the back burner.

Regarding the straps - they are important even if you are using 10lb dumbbells, you want to minimize using other muscle groups, for example, doing lateral dumbbell raises, you are working the delts, using straps minimizes the amount of forearm involvement placing more emphasis on the delts. I do notice a difference, and this is common practice with many IFBB pros.

i use straps for every back work out, shrugs and deads... only cuz my freaking hands are so week from all the broken bones they have incured - lol - as for pros using them some do some dont

Thanks man I do appreciate it, im just stating what i've heard and researched. I would like your help, seems like you have a great physique, I will tell you that im not happy with mine although I do work hard in the gym. So I guess share everything you know, or advise you could give me?

no prob bro- trust me (ask big) i was not open to advise when i came here first and i am supprised they let me stay - just be open and when you ask a question the good part is your getting all sorts of inteligent answers with all sorts of personalities involved... i dont like sups others do - who is right? donesnt matter just understand why each person does or doesnt like them... then make an educated decision

as for more advise - read - man i hated all the guys telling me that but hit search and find a topic... then read - study - come back and ask questions


good luck - and keep us posted on what you are doing and how it is going

[creactiveprotein]

i use straps for every back work out, shrugs and deads... only cuz my freaking hands are so week from all the broken bones they have incured - lol - as for pros using them some do some dont




no prob bro- trust me (ask big) i was not open to advise when i came here first and i am supprised they let me stay - just be open and when you ask a question the good part is your getting all sorts of inteligent answers with all sorts of personalities involved... i dont like sups others do - who is right? donesnt matter just understand why each person does or doesnt like them... then make an educated decision

as for more advise - read - man i hated all the guys telling me that but hit search and find a topic... then read - study - come back and ask questions


good luck - and keep us posted on what you are doing and how it is going

New advice is always great, I have read a lot, I guess im not really sure why my gains arent where i'd like them to be. 8 to 12 reps, one bodypart per week, 12 sets for bi and tris, chest and back and delts, 15 sets for legs, 1.5 g protein per pound, lots of sleep, positive attitude, what am I missing?

[amcon]

sounds good to me - intensity? diet? that is the only two i would look into at this point

[Mr.Rose]

everything else aside you WILL NOT gain muscle with a 2500 cal diet, you just wont. Up it to 4000-5000 cal with 400+ grams of protein.

[BEER WHORE]

**** lifting and cycles I just wear Tap out gear and D&G hats that makes me look big