CLEN's Anti-catabolic effects, experienced people please chime in.

[Forbidden16]

I've been researching Clenbuterol for a while now. I've read up the profiles, studies and done my research around. From what I have gathered, Clen does indeed shows an anti-catabolic/anabolic effect on animals at high doses. Then I've also read debates about people saying it is and people saying it's not.

My intend is not to form a debate here but I would like to form my final thoughts on what I can see is the major consensus from anecdotal evidence gathered from users here who have cut NATURALLY before and then with CLEN and that could draw a conclusion on how muscle preserving the compound was.

I see people saying a lot "Clen is great for fat loss", what do you mean by that? That you could lose weight faster? If that isn't accompanied by an increased protein retention then cutting "faster" isn't any better and more riskier for muscle waste.

Keep in mind I'm talking natural vs. clen here, no AAS involved whatsoever.

[americanoak]

clen raises your body temp by about a degree (F). This alone makes your body use more energy hence more cals burned. It is supposed to have an anti-catabolic affect. I have cut with and without clen and i will say that with clen i lost more body fat. It may have been psycological, but I feel it did work a bit. Nothing AMAZING, but worth giving a try. As for muscle preserves. I have also heard this and am not 100% sure on how much lbm i lost while cutting without clen compared to with clen. I just did a small cut while supplamenting with clen and I will say that I didnt lose very much lmb at all ( that i can notice )

[jordann]

I too have also used clen in the past and didn't notice it to be any more effective than a simple ECA stack.

Put into perspective, both were successful for helping with lean body mass. The ECA felt more like it would take any source whatsoever (fat or muscle) for energy. While I can't say I experienced any anabolic effects from clen, I did notice more lbm.

Next time I would most likely run clen during my PCT.

[jordann]

I too have also used clen in the past and didn't notice it to be any more effective than a simple ECA stack.

Put into perspective, both were successful for helping with lean body mass. The ECA felt more like it would take any source whatsoever (fat or muscle) for energy. While I can't say I experienced any anabolic effects from clen, I did notice more lbm.

Next time I would most likely run clen during my PCT.

[carteblanche08865]

Yea with clen it is definitely a nice appetite suppressant for me. Don't get me wrong, it helps to enhance losing body fat as well. Some respond different to it and even claim they get stronger when using it. I could see that possibly at a low dose, who knows. The most successful time I ever had losing body fat was doing a clen 2 week on/off schedule and also using metformin with meals, hence I'm an endomorph. I tried to even go 2 weeks on 1 off with the clen, but started getting winded more so I stopped. Want to try clen, metformin, low dose t3/t4, L-Carnitine and ghrp/cjc next.

[Forbidden16]

Ok, the replies so far don't point any "strong" experience at saving LBM with Clen. And those who say that it helps you lose fat easier I guess you mean you got a nice BMR boost but, was it safe enough for the muscle?

[Little Herc]

Its more anabolic in animals because they have more beta 3 (?) receptors? I've read a study awhile back and I dont feel like looking it up. The receptors it is anabolic too human have fewer of, but yes it would be anabolic to these receptors even in smaller doses. I doubt u will notice but its worth having just the peace of mind that maybe ur holding on to that hard earned lbm.

[americanoak]

i personally like clen alot. it mnakes me want to diet better knowing im on it and the fact that i can feel it working also makes me feel even better. It is def a fat burner and i will say that it preserves muscle mass. I am doing cardio 3-4 times a week along with dieting with clen and i havent noticed and decrease in muscle.

Give it a go if you interested. In my book, it is very safe. Dose it correctly, diet correctly, and you should be fine.

[Mr.Rose]

^ beta 2 receptors. And yes most animals, primarily horses, which clen was designed for have twice the beta-2 receptors as humans, and hence clen is twice as powerful as a beta-2 antagonist then others.

As for strength gains, or its ability to maintain LBM, it wont be noticeable, especially at the doses we take it at. I mean 100mcg/day. That is nothing compared to horses who get anywhere from 800mcg-1500mcg + a day. At the doses people take it at, don't expect much or anything except a slightly faster lose of body fat ACCOMPANIED by a clean, strict diet and exercise routine. I take around 200-300mcg of clen a day as i have quite a tolerance to stimulants, however in doing so, i barley notice much of a difference with strength or muscle mass, but i do with body fat %.

[Amorphic]

negligable effects on preserving muscle mass in my experience. moreso a myth than anything.

[americanoak]

Mr.Rose, I too have a good tolerance for stimulants. My clen dose reaches 200 a few days before the end of a 2 week cycle and could def take a little more. I have taken 800mg of caffein at one time ( dont ask why ) but that had very little- to no effect on me what so ever. What I am getting at though is, even though the body can tolerate the effects, shakey hands, increased heart rate, etc. is it bad to go passed 200? I heard to stay around 120 so i thought 200 would be about as high as anyone would want to go. How do you feel when you are in dosages of 300, does the fat come off noticably quicker than if just at 200?

[Ronnie Rowland]

negligable effects on preserving muscle mass in my experience. moreso a myth than anything.

That has been my experience as well Amorphic. It's my understanding that it helps preserve muscle tissue by lowering cortisol levels (a muscle eating hormone).

I think clen tends to work better on females as they tend to lose weight slower and hold onto muscle better than us males when dieting down. I also think clen can backfire on some people (especially males with a normal metabolism) if they are not careful as it tends to get them all fired up-hence they can easily over do cardio. Too much cardio will definetly cause muscle loss, regardless of what you take to prevent catabolism.

[americanoak]

good to now ronnie, btw you are a giant lol props

[Ronnie Rowland]

Mr.Rose, I too have a good tolerance for stimulants. My clen dose reaches 200 a few days before the end of a 2 week cycle and could def take a little more. I have taken 800mg of caffein at one time ( dont ask why ) but that had very little- to no effect on me what so ever. What I am getting at though is, even though the body can tolerate the effects, shakey hands, increased heart rate, etc. is it bad to go passed 200? I heard to stay around 120 so i thought 200 would be about as high as anyone would want to go. How do you feel when you are in dosages of 300, does the fat come off noticably quicker than if just at 200?

Please use caution! If you have asthma tendencies you can have a full blown attack when coming off such a high dose. You could also put your heart into atrial fibrilation using such a high dosages of clen. I would never go over 120 per day and knowing what I know now I personally would never go over 80 per day. Its not worth risking heart damage! Eat cleaner or train harder but don't take 200 of clen per day. TRUST ME ON THIS ONE!

[americanoak]

kinda sucks to not go passed 120, but i understand what your coming from. I would rather be alive than lose a little extra bf
ill have to rethink my next clen cycle

[dec11]

negligable effects on preserving muscle mass in my experience. moreso a myth than anything.

couldnt agree more, i've never came across a more hyped drug, its effects (minimal, in my exp) arent worth its health implications, a med prof in the know told me its like playing russian roulette taking that stuff

[americanoak]

couldnt agree more, i've never came across a more hyped drug, its effects (minimal, in my exp) arent worth its health implications, a med prof in the know told me its like playing russian roulette taking that stuff

makes me feel good knowing that

[dec11]

makes me feel good knowing that

your best off without it mate, you dont need it. it also can screw some ppl up mentally if used enough

[americanoak]

How do you mean mentally? I've never seen any info on this.

[dec11]

How do you mean mentally? I've never seen any info on this.

anyone with a nervous disposition can encounter panic attacks and depression using clen

[americanoak]

anyone with a nervous disposition can encounter panic attacks and depression using clen

ohhhh, ok thank you for that. I always enjoy learning new things about supps (especially ones i have taken)

[dec11]

ohhhh, ok thank you for that. I always enjoy learning new things about supps (especially ones i have taken)

no prob, rem its like a durex, play it safe lol

[Forbidden16]

Thanks for all the replies. Sadly this makes me very disappointed, IMO the whole hype for the drug to me was for it's ability to retain mass. I have done a natural cut last year and although you can't see much muscle loss from the progress pics I took I feel like I could have done better.

I'm giving Clen my first try for this year's cut given that I have already spent on it and done plenty of research. However, I don't really care for a "faster" BMR since on a cut I'm extremely anal about calories/macros and what I'm interested is in that extra edge for my body to retain mass, obviously without AAS, yet.

I was having a discussion earlier and the question of a low dose of Anavar for anti catabolism (20mg~?) came to my mind. Is this a coherent idea for you guys to use it at such a dose and be effective for that purpose?

[Mr.Rose]

Please use caution! If you have asthma tendencies you can have a full blown attack when coming off such a high dose. You could also put your heart into atrial fibrilation using such a high dosages of clen. I would never go over 120 per day and knowing what I know now I personally would never go over 80 per day. Its not worth risking heart damage! Eat cleaner or train harder but don't take 200 of clen per day. TRUST ME ON THIS ONE!

I agree with Ronnie on this, Clenbuterol is not a drug to be messed with, it causes irreversible damage to the cardiovascular system, for example, most notable; enlargement of the ventricles, cardiac hypertrophy and cardiac necrosis. However, these studies which provided those symptoms are done on animals and at much higher doses then we take them. For example, most peopel take clen at 100mcg's and most animals are dosed at mg levels.

For this reason, i have weighted the pro's and con's, and read upon countless of scientific studies and concluded that for ME (yes i said me, because everyone is different), that doses as high as 250-300mcg's wont cause much if any noticeable damage for short cycles. To prove this i am hoping to get heart CT scans soon before and after a month clen cycle. But that may be a far way away.

@americanoak: yeh, i too at times have 400-800mg's of caffeine pre fight or pre training due to the large amount of beneficial properties and studies to confirm them. I run a 200-300mcg cycle of clen from day one, no tapering up or down. Usually 2 weeks on and then two off, unless i have ketotifen on me, then i run 4-6 weeks straight.

[dec11]

I agree with Ronnie on this, Clenbuterol is not a drug to be messed with, it causes irreversible damage to the cardiovascular system, for example, most notable; enlargement of the ventricles, cardiac hypertrophy and cardiac necrosis. However, these studies which provided those symptoms are done on animals and at much higher doses then we take them. For example, most peopel take clen at 100mcg's and most animals are dosed at mg levels.

For this reason, i have weighted the pro's and con's, and read upon countless of scientific studies and concluded that for ME (yes i said me, because everyone is different), that doses as high as 250-300mcg's wont cause much if any noticeable damage for short cycles. To prove this i am hoping to get heart CAT scans soon before and after a month clen cycle. But that may be a far way away.
@americanoak: yeh, i too at times have 400-800mg's of caffeine pre fight or pre training due to the large amount of beneficial properties and studies to confirm them. I run a 200-300mcg cycle of clen from day one, no tapering up or down. Usually 2 weeks on and then two off, unless i have ketotifen on me, then i run 4-6 weeks straight.

fookin most ridiculous statement ive heard in a while

[Mr.Rose]

Explain how this is ridiculous?

I'm am trying to see if i can prove, and by prove, i mean to myself, this is not a scientific study to prove clen to the whole world, it is a personal thing, that clen doesnt not (hopefully not) enlarge my ventricles.

Please explain how it is ridiculous?

[dec11]

Explain how this is ridiculous?

I'm am trying to see if i can prove, and by prove, i mean to myself, this is not a scientific study to prove clen to the whole world, it is a personal thing, that clen doesnt not (hopefully not) enlarge my ventricles.

Please explain how it is ridiculous?

for one your too young to be messing with aas etc and for two, what sort of sci fi experiment do you think your living in?!

[Mr.Rose]

Firstly, how would you know my age? Secondly, clen is not an AAS, thirdly a sci fi experiment? You sound very uneducated. Tell me, do you have any technical degree's in any fields or are in the process of getting them?

[Mr.Rose]

oh and it helps having a family member who is a CT Scan technician, wont take me much effort to arrange a scan or 50 if i like.

[dec11]

Firstly, how would you know my age? Secondly, clen is not an AAS, thirdly a sci fi experiment? You sound very uneducated. Tell me, do you have any technical degree's in any fields or are in the process of getting them?

since you responded to an 18 yr olds thread stating, "i'm around your age", i can go dig it out if ya want? and as a matter of fact, i have a sport science degree. and i said aas ETC

[Mr.Rose]

I doubt i responded to an 18yr old's thread stating that i am around his age, i may be wrong however, and you could post a link. I'm in my early twenties actually. And unless you are a sheep following everyone on this board, please provide me with evidence that following strict cycle and PCT protocols that AAS at an age around mine will do much harm. I have has three endocrinologists monitor my cycles at different stages and each have stated that if done correctly i have nothing to worry about... and hey guess what my levels have all returned to normal post cycle.

Well then as a scholar, you should darn well know the importance of scientific studies, so please provide me one proving me wrong otherwise as i do not argue in opinions but in scientific tangible evidence.

Please tell me how a CT scan wont provide a clear picture of my heart to asses any damage? In fact, when you ever get a heart attack please refuse your docter to do a CT scan of your heart before he preform any bypass surgery.

Furthermore, maybe because of the fact that you live in america (again just an assumption) where is costs $2000 to get a check up, here in australia our government takes care of us and all medical expenses are mostly paid by them. A CT scan here is free, and with close ties in hospitals, i dont have to wait in lines.

[dec11]

I doubt i responded to an 18yr old's thread stating that i am around his age, i may be wrong however, and you could post a link. I'm in my early twenties actually. And unless you are a sheep following everyone on this board, please provide me with evidence that following strict cycle and PCT protocols that AAS at an age around mine will do much harm. I have has three endocrinologists monitor my cycles at different stages and each have stated that if done correctly i have nothing to worry about... and hey guess what my levels have all returned to normal post cycle.

Well then as a scholar, you should darn well know the importance of scientific studies, so please provide me one proving me wrong otherwise as i do not argue in opinions but in scientific tangible evidence.

Please tell me how a CT scan wont provide a clear picture of my heart to asses any damage? In fact, when you ever get a heart attack please refuse your docter to do a CT scan of your heart before he preform any bypass surgery.

Furthermore, maybe because of the fact that you live in america (again just an assumption) where is costs $2000 to get a check up, here in australia our government takes care of us and all medical expenses are mostly paid by them. A CT scan here is free, and with close ties in hospitals, i dont have to wait in lines.

??? slightly further east, i'll give you a clue, it begins with i and ends with d and isnt the cold place lol, and med treatment is free. seriousily your just bullshiting like your mate ranging and i aint getting into it, waken up and stop living in fantasy world for god sake

[Mr.Rose]

haha dreaming,

you know what, i dont care about you so im not going to bother, nor do i have anything to prove to you.

So i will end this with a..... .

And be off to live in my fantasy world

[dec11]

haha dreaming,

you know what, i dont care about you so im not going to bother, nor do i have anything to prove to you.

So i will end this with a..... .

And be off to live in my fantasy world

have a nice time

[Mr.Rose]

[stevey_6t9]

Theres no way id take clen personally, like rosie said above the CVD effects scare me.

And Mr.Rose your CT scan before and after sounds interesting, however i think you will only notice results after prolonged use. Id also have a MRI instead.

[Little Herc]

"Furthermore, maybe because of the fact that you live in america (again just an assumption) where is costs $2000"

LoL 2k to go to the Doctor. Maybe for some plastic surgery. I guess u guys only hear the political BS but its not that high. I'm not throwing down on countries that do have healthcare. If they can do it and not bankrupt the government and it be decent go for it. I work with one guy that was sent down here from Canada tho and he is blind out of one eye and he blames the government paid doctor that quote "Don't give a shit". I dont know what was wrong with him or why he had surgery but it's kinda scary to me.

Edit: I was just correcting a statement. I don't want to debate politics. ty

[Mr.Rose]

^^ haha little herc, that was obviously sarcasm, . I know it doesn't cost that much, but i do know it costs a lot.

Haha, fine we wont debate it, but it doesnt bankrupt a country, its proven to work and 90% of the countries in the world have it, america is the only one that uses fear campaigns to prevent it?.... why? because insurance companies make so much money from you guys. We have free healthcare and all my docter want to help me, and do care about their patients.

And yeh stevie, i want to get one, got a very close friend who is a CT technician, but im a lazy bugger, haha, but no seriously ill get one done, then get one dose after a few months. Maybe at the end of my next cyle. I dont know anyone who does MRI . lol

EDIT: also little herc, it doesnt matter if i pay for the doctor, or an insurance company or a government, they will be paid the same. So their 'care factor' is based on the individual doctor, not who pays him.

[Forbidden16]

Thread is now about the government, insurance plans and medical costs!

[Mr.Rose]

No I'm kidding. .

I though we discussed and ended this already?