Did i failed my first Cycle?

[LeroyB]

I wanted to add when I did my first Test E cycle I was 18-20% BF. Still gained like a mofo.

[Kdub]

Declan,

The 20 minute example for a chest workout is just that... an example. He could lift 6000 lbs in 40 minutes or 60 minutes. I was sincerely hoping others like yourself would not possess shortsightedness viewing my post.

Whether he races through the workout or not is irrelevant. What is relevant is the progressive overload associated with lifting heavier weights or increasing the volume. The OP also might enjoy "racing" through a workout as well and find great results this way.

If you do not understand this basic concept of overload then I suggest you refrain from advising the OP on how to progress due to your lack of basic fundamentals.

It is far more constructive for the OP and his concerns to assist him with valuable information rather than adding a useless and nonconstructive attack. Sharing your insights and reasoning for why you may disagree will assist the OP in his understanding of why he may not have achieved his goals rather than wasting my and his and your and other's time with a post like this.

Thank you for your feedback.


To the OP,

My apologies. There is a great learning curve here and finding what works best for you is a fine balancing act. It will be trial and error for you as it has been for all of us.

What may work for you might be of your own creation so do your best not to get locked into any training regime as if it is the only one to produce results... especially if a muscle magazine says so.

Good Luck!

[Kdub]

Tripmachine,

You do not and nor do I know what is best for the OP and this includes his protein requirements.

The OP might respond extremely well to protein shakes over other protein sources and his requirements might be high in relation to your requirements.

The suggestion is simply to experiment to find out what works for him and I have simply provided alternatives to protein consumption without limiting him in any way.

I did not realize you know of his protein requirements and that they do not consist of 3, 100+ gram protein shakes daily.


We hear it from Marcus all the time in that there is no magical cycle or blend of compounds to promote great increases of muscle tissue. It is a trial and error process. One guy might love Enanthate and another guy might respond better to Propinate. Some grow off EQ and others know it to be garbage.

The same is also said for training styles, recovery techniques and food consumption. Try them out, keep records and come back to what consistently works for you.

[dec11]

Declan,

The 20 minute example for a chest workout is just that... an example. He could lift 6000 lbs in 40 minutes or 60 minutes. I was sincerely hoping others like yourself would not possess shortsightedness viewing my post.

Whether he races through the workout or not is irrelevant. What is relevant is the progressive overload associated with lifting heavier weights or increasing the volume. The OP also might enjoy "racing" through a workout as well and find great results this way.

If you do not understand this basic concept of overload then I suggest you refrain from advising the OP on how to progress due to your lack of basic fundamentals.

It is far more constructive for the OP and his concerns to assist him with valuable information rather than adding a useless and nonconstructive attack. Sharing your insights and reasoning for why you may disagree will assist the OP in his understanding of why he may not have achieved his goals rather than wasting my and his and your and other's time with a post like this.

Thank you for your feedback.


To the OP,

My apologies. There is a great learning curve here and finding what works best for you is a fine balancing act. It will be trial and error for you as it has been for all of us.

What may work for you might be of your own creation so do your best not to get locked into any training regime as if it is the only one to produce results... especially if a muscle magazine says so.

Good Luck!

your gobbing off to a well qualified/experienced personal trainer here you fool, leave it to the ppl who know wat they are doing

[dec11]

Tripmachine,

You do not and nor do I know what is best for the OP and this includes his protein requirements.

The OP might respond extremely well to protein shakes over other protein sources and his requirements might be high in relation to your requirements.

The suggestion is simply to experiment to find out what works for him and I have simply provided alternatives to protein consumption without limiting him in any way.

I did not realize you know of his protein requirements and that they do not consist of 3, 100+ gram protein shakes daily.


We hear it from Marcus all the time in that there is no magical cycle or blend of compounds to promote great increases of muscle tissue. It is a trial and error process. One guy might love Enanthate and another guy might respond better to Propinate. Some grow off EQ and others know it to be garbage.

The same is also said for training styles, recovery techniques and food consumption. Try them out, keep records and come back to what consistently works for you.

more sterling 'advice'

[Hard.On]

in response to your thread title

Yes you failed
You gained a pair of tits as a prize

you should focus on fixing your gyno that i think I saw

[dec11]

There are many variables in this equation:

Training
Food Intake
Recovery
AAS

Training:

When using AAS your body is capable of incredible physical output. In simple terms for next time you go on the gear, think scientific terms for physical work.

One technique is to record your workouts in pounds per minute. If you increase the pounds per minute output each workout you are accurately increasing your physical output.

The notion is very basic; more work in the same amount of time... or... the same amount of work in less time. Multiple the reps and sets and weight and divide it by the time it took to complete the workout. The workout could be for your chest. You can find out how many pounds per minute or even pounds per second you lift from workout to workout.

200 lb bench press for 3 sets at 10 reps = 6000 lbs
Complete the chest workout in 20 minutes and you have lifted 300 lbs per minute.
If your next workout is completed in the same 20 minutes but you lifted 7300 lbs then your output is 365 lbs per minute.

This requires you keep a log book with you when you train.


Food intake:

You can consume more protein than you think because AAS increases protein synthesis drastically.

You need to find the types of protein you like and can digest easily. You can eat more than 50 grams of protein at a sitting as well.

Try eating 2 chicken breasts next time for a meal.
2 cans of tuna (if you can stomach the ghastly stuff)
6-8 eggs
4 large hamburger patties
A steak
Large salmon fillet
Consume 3 protein shakes per day at 100 grams of protein per shake.

If digestive enzymes are needed to help protein digestion then take them with each meal.

Eat your protein first and worry about the carbs later. Protein is most important.

Make sure you also eat lots of fiber to help the food exit your body as well. IMO this is horribly underrated and practically never talked about. Colonix by Dr, Natura makes an EXCELLENT fiber drink. I take two a day. One large salad a day is also a good idea with lemon juice and olive oil for a dressing. add chicken on there for your protein.

You may be like me and do not digest red meat well and I also do not digest protein and starchy carbs together well at all. 100 - 150 gram Protein shakes do wonders for me.

Recovery:

This is personal. You may find triple drop training and rest pause is good for you or you might like higher reps and volume training. Whatever style you like you must recover from and choosing one that doesn't burn you out is vitally important. Perhaps your adrenal glands are weak and therefore constant high intensity with maximum weights saps you too much. Perhaps you require 10 hours a day of sleep.

Maybe you require 2-3 epsom salt baths a week to rid your muscles of lactic acid and this will help you recover.


AAS:

It sounds like you got bunk gear. Test and Deca combo even with minimal training and poor diet should have added more than 4 lbs.

Or, your body does a poor job of utilizing the test in your system be it natural or artificial. It might aromatize too easily.

Or, you might require a minimum of 500 mg per week of Test.

Lots of variables to consider and you can only improve from here. If you are considering another cycle in the future, you have come to a GREAT place to learn and seek advice.

The guys here are more than happy and willing to assist you with your goals and needs from diet to mapping out a cycle personally tailored for you.

If possible, train with an experienced AAS user in your local gym who knows how to train while on the crank. He or even she can help you with a training program and monitor your progress and will do it free of charge of you show sincerity to give it your all.

On a final note, you gotta train like there is no tomorrow in order to take full advantage of the AAS. If you pu$$y foot around the weights you are wasting your time, money and efforts altogether. A spotter is highly recommended for each time you raise a weight and this is called a dedicated training partner.

Take your time. Don't get discouraged. Your next cycle might consist of Sustanon 250 @ 500 mgs per week for 8 weeks and Dianabol @ 30 mgs per day for 4-6 weeks.

Best of luck to you...

lol, what complete shite, another mens health subscriber

[Hard.On]

lol, what complete shite, another mens health subscriber

typical newbs to this site

[dec11]

typical newbs to this site

yeah mate, i hope the OP and others have the sense to ignore this crap

[weaver2400]

I would like to ad. I got a buudy built like you. And we both got the same stuff, I started at 5`6" 190 bf 7% . On test and deca I went up to 223lbs in 12 weeks. he had minium gains and still looked like shit. The gear isnt magic. and cant work total miracles. But with that said you no it when you got test in ya. if its good. I wouldnt make your opinion on it yet get more facts cut some fat off. And tear it up

[Hard.On]

yeah mate, i hope the OP and others have the sense to ignore this crap

no offence to the op but he is screwed. He should focus on recovering right now because he's been beaten down. Then worry about everything else

[dec11]

the more fat on your body the less you will see muscle, simple as. im 230lbs @ 13-14% bf and have worked with a guy who was 190lbs @ 6% bf. he looked alot bigger than me despite the massive weight diff, simply bcos he was cut.

[weaver2400]

But four pounds of gains. Seems a little off. I would think if your on test. The water retention would be more than that. The gear sound fishy.

[Hard.On]

ye the 4 pounds was in my mind when i wrote that post

[dec11]

But four pounds of gains. Seems a little off. I would think if your on test. The water retention would be more than that. The gear sound fishy.

he could have been going down in bf at the same time he also may not be training properly, diet certainly was off

[Bullnutz]

Diet was good, i trained hard 5 days a week, i know i was low in calories at the beginning but after eating more it didn't make a difference.

How much test and deca man?Be honest.Test level is real important to start fat burning.

[Kdub]

These are merely suggestions of mine and not advise. The intent is on encouraging the OP to find what works best for him.

Let go of the personal attack and vendetta and offer up some of your suggestions seeing as some of you possess impressive resumes and qualifications when it comes to training and fitness etc...

So far we have heard nothing from you to assist the OP in this regard to piece together what went right or wrong and only valueless feedback from you who are critical without adding substance from others who are sincere in assisting the OP to get it right the next time.

I will not waste my time in responding to another immature and emotional PM from you Declan. Instead use your time and effort to assist (PM) the OP with his issues as it appears that if anyone can help him it is you.

[dec11]

These are merely suggestions of mine and not advise. The intent is on encouraging the OP to find what works best for him.

Let go of the personal attack and vendetta and offer up some of your suggestions seeing as some of you possess impressive resumes and qualifications when it comes to training and fitness etc...

So far we have heard nothing from you to assist the OP in this regard to piece together what went right or wrong and only valueless feedback from you who are critical without adding substance from others who are sincere in assisting the OP to get it right the next time.

I will not waste my time in responding to another immature and emotional PM from you Declan. Instead use your time and effort to assist (PM) the OP with his issues as it appears that if anyone can help him it is you.

My participation with this thread looks to be about done...

dont back track, you were advising him. if you cant give good advice, DONT GIVE ANY. the guys had it covered, im just personally sick of the idiotic ppl like you, the blind leading the blind

[Bullnutz]

Bunk gear I don't care what the diet was like he would gain more than 4lbs. Did you feel the test ever?

How much test mg/ml.Cyp.Enth.Sus.What was your cycle Eddie?

[Eddie_m63]

How much test mg/ml.Cyp.Enth.Sus.What was your cycle Eddie?

600 Test 600 Deca . So what do you feel when test kicks in?

[6ft5]

I'm confused too. imo if it was bunk u would have lost lbs not gain.

[Hard.On]

I'm confused too. imo if it was bunk u would have lost lbs not gain.

We cant be 100% sure what he gained and lost.
Who can be sure of his bf% ups and downs

I dont think his gear was bunk though b/c in his 2nd pic it looks to me like the beggining signs of gyno

[CanYouDigIt]

It's pretty obvious that it wasn't bunk, he became a balloon, and he did grow a bit, you can see it in arms,shoulders ect.. but is this due to actually going to the gym?>

I mean to be honest, i'd kick myself if I've wasted my money on a cycle to end up at the end looking a bit better then I was, when you should be 2x bigger..

but that's just my oppinion, here my advice, go do some cardio and fix your diet, and stop cycling when your at 25%+ bf.

[CanYouDigIt]

and whoever is saying take less break, and lift more, is an idiot, your muscles need time to recover between sets, and what's the point in burning yourself so you can only lift half the amount?

your here to build muscles not waste your time at the gym, If I did my workouts and gave myself 15-30 seconds break between sets, I'd be burnt after 3 set....

and your body dosen't respond to "protein shakes better then food" <--- who put this idea in your crack pipe..

wow I've actually went through like 2 min of reading kdub's post and yeah.. your dumb, I won't go further..

[Eddie_m63]

It's pretty obvious that it wasn't bunk, he became a balloon, and he did grow a bit, you can see it in arms,shoulders ect.. but is this due to actually going to the gym?>

I mean to be honest, i'd kick myself if I've wasted my money on a cycle to end up at the end looking a bit better then I was, when you should be 2x bigger..

but that's just my oppinion, here my advice, go do some cardio and fix your diet, and stop cycling when your at 25%+ bf.

Agree, but i am sure it was the diet then, i'd been on it for about a month when i started my cycle i was eaiting about 1700 cal, before my cycle i was looking at least 2lbs a week. Lesson well learned need to feed the muscle especially during a cycle. I will start cutting pretty soon and hopefully be ready for another cycle soon.

[Kdub]

and whoever is saying take less break, and lift more, is an idiot, your muscles need time to recover between sets, and what's the point in burning yourself so you can only lift half the amount?

your here to build muscles not waste your time at the gym, If I did my workouts and gave myself 15-30 seconds break between sets, I'd be burnt after 3 set....

and your body dosen't respond to "protein shakes better then food" <--- who put this idea in your crack pipe..

wow I've actually went through like 2 min of reading kdub's post and yeah.. your dumb, I won't go further..

Too many assumptions on your part. Nowhere did I say 15-30 seconds rest between sets. No where did I say protein shakes only.

Eddie can rest 120 or 180 seconds between sets if he chooses. He can also introduce more protein shakes into his diet along with his food sources of protein.

There may be a type of protein Eddie's system has a hard time digesting such as red meat or another source and possibly this has been a contributing factor in why he hasn't had the results he expected.

200 grams of food source protein along with 200 grams of protein shake sources might have helped. This could equate to 4 meals at 50gr per meal and two shakes at 100 grs.

The only issue posters are addressing here is the gear issue when there are many variables in the mix.

Eddie could also have an issue with aromatization. Not enough Test being converted whether he is on or off cycle.

Eddie, how is your libido on and off cycle?

[dec11]

Too many assumptions on your part. Nowhere did I say 15-30 seconds rest between sets. No where did I say protein shakes only.

Eddie can rest 120 or 180 seconds between sets if he chooses. He can also introduce more protein shakes into his diet along with his food sources of protein.

There may be a type of protein Eddie's system has a hard time digesting such as red meat or another source and possibly this has been a contributing factor in why he hasn't had the results he expected.

200 grams of food source protein along with 200 grams of protein shake sources might have helped. This could equate to 4 meals at 50gr per meal and two shakes at 100 grs.

The only issue posters are addressing here is the gear issue when there are many variables in the mix.

Eddie could also have an issue with aromatization. Not enough Test being converted whether he is on or off cycle.

Eddie, how is your libido on and off cycle?

give it up, how many of us have to tell ya?