Question For Marcus

**FranciscoG** · 03-01-2010, 05:30 PM

Originally Posted by marcus300

So you don't know what your levels are to date? last bloodwork was 5 yrs ago?

It is so hard to maintain at our age, I struggled so much for about 3 years trying to recover and bring back my natural test levels but each time after I cycled it was getting worse and worse no matter what I did, my Doctor had no other choice HRT completely changed my life it was like going back 20yrs

No, I have had blood work done regularly. Generally it is in the 170-190s. But, as you mentioned it is hard to maintain at my age. I do not stay off for over 8 weeks which is needed to see HPTA recovery. The blood work is not impartial.

Its harder here than in state side, staying off that is. Aas are sold in every grocery store and there are as many pharmacies as churches, no script needed. So talk about fighting your demons.

**marcus300** · 03-01-2010, 05:35 PM

Originally Posted by PharmDoc-Cyrus

No, I have had blood work done regularly. Generally it is in the 170-190s. But, as you mentioned it is hard to maintain at my age. I do not stay off for over 8 weeks which is needed to see HPTA recovery. The blood work is not impartial.

Its harder here than in state side, staying off that is. Aas are sold in every grocery store and there are as many pharmacies as churches, no script needed. So talk about fighting your demons.

I would say the only option is HRT for you big guy, I cant see any reason trying to recover with such low natural test and even if you stayed off cycle long enough for full recovery of your HPTA it isnt going to be any better IMHO especially at your age.

Blast cycles coupled with HRT dose may be a great option

**FranciscoG** · 03-01-2010, 05:37 PM

Originally Posted by marcus300

I would say the only option is HRT for you big guy, I cant see any reason trying to recover with such low natural test and even if you stayed off cycle long enough for full recovery of your HPTA it isnt going to be any better IMHO especially at your age.

Blast cycles coupled with HRT dose may be a great option

Trust me I know... Weeks like this suck... I bet I will be in bed by 9 pm tonight. lol

**marcus300** · 03-01-2010, 05:39 PM

Originally Posted by PharmDoc-Cyrus

Trust me I know... Weeks like this suck... I bet I will be in bed by 9 pm tonight. lol

Welcome son to HRT world, its a pleasure to have

**AnonEagle** · 03-01-2010, 06:58 PM

Originally Posted by "DIRTY D" SANCHEZ

i would like to know where you got this info from please? In fact, i gained just at 28lbs on my first cycle and it was a short/burst cycle of only 5 weeks... So i gained 30lbs almost in just over a month, and afterwards i only kept about 15lbs... Now i will say that my pct wasn't up to par, but my diet was and i still trained hard after cycle. So i would like to know how to keep 25 out of 30 lbs on a cycle... I haven't heard of it on here that i can remember?

Also, i have read and from using personally, i would say that out of any cycle... The first is your best chance at gaining 30lbs and keeping as much as possible.

Pls post your source of info if this is a fact. Sorry if i am mistaken, just speaking from personal and most frequently posted results from cycles.

Thanks,

"dirty d"

well you obviously didn't gain 30lbs of muscle in 5 weeks. would like to hear what your cycle was that put on even 30lbs of anything in 5 weeks though, those are great results!

I was only speaking about keeping the quality lean muscle gains.. it's obvious that you're going to lose a lot water weight from bloat with certain compounds. sorry should have been more specific

**stevey_6t9** · 03-01-2010, 07:35 PM

how long have your cycled and what age did you start marcus300?

**IggySupra** · 03-01-2010, 09:17 PM

Originally Posted by stevey_6t9

how long have your cycled and what age did you start marcus300?

x2?.

**marcus300** · 03-01-2010, 09:24 PM

Originally Posted by stevey_6t9

how long have your cycled and what age did you start marcus300?

I started training when I was 18yrs old
I started cycling around 23yrs old
I am 42yrs old now

**IggySupra** · 03-01-2010, 09:26 PM

Marcus, around when did you have to hop on HRT? And at what point in time did you feel the worst regarding the low test levels?

**marcus300** · 03-01-2010, 09:32 PM

Originally Posted by IggySupra

Marcus, around when did you have to hop on HRT? And at what point in time did you feel the worst regarding the low test levels?

I started HRT about 3.5 yrs ago, I felt the signs of low test about 6 years ago but I can't say exactly when I needed HRT because I was cycling alot. Ive not cycled for 3.5 yrs.

**IggySupra** · 03-01-2010, 09:39 PM

Ahh, alright. How did you feel when they were low? Reason i ask, is because when i got scammed with my 2nd bottle and I didn't hop on pct, I honestly felt nothing different. Maybe just my urge to have sex went some what down, but when it came down to it, I was still having sex with the same amount of intensity and pleasure, felt nothing different in any other perspective when i got off. Thanks for the responses

**marcus300** · 03-01-2010, 09:41 PM

Originally Posted by IggySupra

Ahh, alright. How did you feel when they were low? Reason i ask, is because when i got scammed with my 2nd bottle and I didn't hop on pct, I honestly felt nothing different. Maybe just my urge to have sex went some what down, but when it came down to it, I was still having sex with the same amount of intensity and pleasure, felt nothing different in any other perspective when i got off. Thanks for the responses

It was a living hell and it effected every part of my life in a negative way, the demons were with me daily and felt like a 80yr old.

**AlphaGenetics** · 03-01-2010, 09:44 PM

Marcus are you the same size now as in your pic?

**scorgasm** · 03-01-2010, 09:55 PM

so basically if I were to start cycling now theres a very good chance I would need HRT by my late 30's early 40's? don't you're test levels get low by the time you're 40 even without aas?

**KimboHalfSlice** · 03-01-2010, 09:59 PM

Originally Posted by scorgasm

So are you saying theres still a risk of permanently decreasing natural test levels, even with one cycle done properly?

There is risk involved with everything you do in life. Sometimes the risk is so small that you should ignore it (otherwise you'd never get anything done in life!). Sometimes the risk is so great you'd be stupid to go ahead with things.

Eat a piece of chicken and there's a chance you'll get salmonella poisoning.

Walk across the road and there's a chance you'll get hit by a speeding car.

Go running and there's a chance you'll injure your knee.

Before I embark on something, I like to see statistics. From the statistics, I can make a risk assessment, and from that I can decide whether I want to go through with it or not. Here's some examples of statistics:

If a woman is taking birth control pills properly, the chances of her becoming pregnant are 0.3%

99% of men regain natural Testosterone levels within 6 months of stopping taking steroids.

If you do the following two things:
1) Take hCG while on cycle
2) Take Clomiphene and Tamoxifen when you finish your cycle

then I reckon you'd find it quite DIFFICULT to damage up your own natural Testosterone production (in much the same way it would be quite difficult to get pregnant if you're taking birth control pills every day).

The bodybuilders who have problems with low Testosterone after having taken steroids fall into two categories:

1) The really really really unlucky people who were in the 1% group of people who don't regain natural Testosterone levels within 6 months of taking steroids. Really it's just plain bad luck.

2) The people who took a lot of steroids for a long time, and who weren't taking hCG or doing Post Cycle Therapy with Clomiphene and Tamoxifen.

In my own opinion: If you do things properly, i.e. if you take hCG on cycle, and if you do PCT afterwards, then the chances of damaging your own natural Testosterone production are so low that they can safely be ignored.

**marcus300** · 03-01-2010, 10:00 PM

Originally Posted by scorgasm

so basically if I were to start cycling now theres a very good chance I would need HRT by my late 30's early 40's? don't you're test levels get low by the time you're 40 even without aas?

You may need it in your 20's who knows!

Thats why I am passionate about AAS and the younger bb's around here, ive seen so many of my friends and pro BB's suffer with low test in their 20's, infact its getting worse because more and more guys are using younger and younger

**Jbert22** · 03-01-2010, 10:04 PM

99% of men regain natural Testosterone levels within 6 months of stopping taking steroids .

where did you get those numbers? i disagree

**marcus300** · 03-01-2010, 10:09 PM

Originally Posted by ErectileTissue

There is risk involved with everything you do in life. Sometimes the risk is so small that you should ignore it (otherwise you'd never get anything done in life!). Sometimes the risk is so great you'd be stupid to go ahead with things.

Eat a piece of chicken and there's a chance you'll get salmonella poisoning.

Walk across the road and there's a chance you'll get hit by a speeding car.

Go running and there's a chance you'll injure your knee.

Before I embark on something, I like to see statistics. From the statistics, I can make a risk assessment, and from that I can decide whether I want to go through with it or not. Here's some examples of statistics:

If a woman is taking birth control pills properly, the chances of her becoming pregnant are 0.3%

99% of men regain natural Testosterone levels within 6 months of stopping taking steroids.

If you do the following two things:
1) Take hCG while on cycle
2) Take Clomiphene and Tamoxifen when you finish your cycle

then I reckon you'd find it quite DIFFICULT to damage up your own natural Testosterone production (in much the same way it would be quite difficult to get pregnant if you're taking birth control pills every day).

The bodybuilders who have problems with low Testosterone after having taken steroids fall into two categories:

1) The really really really unlucky people who were in the 1% group of people who don't regain natural Testosterone levels within 6 months of taking steroids. Really it's just plain bad luck.

2) The people who took a lot of steroids for a long time, and who weren't taking hCG or doing Post Cycle Therapy with Clomiphene and Tamoxifen.

In my own opinion: If you do things properly, i.e. if you take hCG on cycle, and if you do PCT afterwards, then the chances of damaging your own natural Testosterone production are so low that they can safely be ignored.

I disagree and from what ive seen over the years its the complete opersite to what you have stated.

**marcus300** · 03-01-2010, 10:14 PM

Originally Posted by AlphaGenetics

Marcus are you the same size now as in your pic?

I was alot bigger than my avater pic, I was clean for around 6 months in that pic just HRT but before that I had been suffering for many many months with low Test and without HRT so that wipe alot of tissue of me,

I am heavier nowadays but not the same condition ( working on that as we speak) and Ive lost some muscle size.

**Jbert22** · 03-01-2010, 10:18 PM

marcus, if somebody was on HRT could they order UGL gear or legally have gear besides pharmasudical prescriptions

**KimboHalfSlice** · 03-01-2010, 10:19 PM

Originally Posted by Jbert22

99% of men regain natural Testosterone levels within 6 months of stopping taking steroids.

Go here:

http://www.steroid.com/side.php

And look at "Inhibition of Natural Hormones". Here's an excerpt:

The following is a table showing the various hormonal levels of former steroid users who haven´t used them for a year:

TABLE GOES HERE

What we see in this chart is not surprising to anyone who is actually familiar with steroids, and not with media-hype. In people studied who haven' t used steroids for a year, ALL of their measured hormones (testosterone, estrogen) were within the NORMAL RANGE! Clearly, the effects that steroids have on your hormones are reversible and the horror stories we've all read in the media about people who never regained normal hormonal function after one cycle are greatly exaggerated. I think anyone who is familiar with "After School Specials" about steroids will be very surprised at learning this fact. As for "The Aaron Henry Story" on HBO, I can't imagine how he has suffered side effects well into his 40's when the steroid users in this study were totally fine after one year, and in some cases used more than he did!

Right now I'm searching the internet looking for that study that said 99%. I'll post back here when I find it.

**marcus300** · 03-01-2010, 10:29 PM

Originally Posted by ErectileTissue

Go here:

http://www.steroid.com/side.php

And look at "Inhibition of Natural Hormones". Here's an excerpt:

Right now I'm searching the internet looking for that study that said 99%. I'll post back here when I find it.

From my experience and working with many user's ive seen the complete oppersite, but again not everyone responds the same, i'm saying I think the % is high rather than 99% didnt have issues with recovery.

I guess it all depneds on alot of points, like how long they have been using, how old were they when they first started, the guy in question who you responded to was a young guy.

To be honest I am not really interested in the study, it still wont change what have seen and experienced over the years, i still dont agree with it but thats just my experience others may have a different view

**marcus300** · 03-01-2010, 10:31 PM

Originally Posted by Jbert22

marcus, if somebody was on HRT could they order UGL gear or legally have gear besides pharmasudical prescriptions

In the UK AAS are not illegal, so its fine to have gear around but I wouldnt have UGL about me anyway, i personally dont have much faith in it.

**KimboHalfSlice** · 03-01-2010, 10:43 PM

Originally Posted by marcus300

In the UK AAS are not illegal, so its fine to have gear around but I wouldnt have UGL about me anyway, i personally dont have much faith in it.

With UGL stuff, I worry more about the quality of the product than I do about the actual product! It might contain pathogens, or it might contain "stuff that just shouldn't be in there" (like for instance, illegally-produced alcohol might contain elevated levels of Methanol).

Thankfully I'm in Thailand so I buy quality gear, I even get the stuff that has the security code you can scratch off

**alpenguy** · 03-01-2010, 11:48 PM

Marcus, I dont know how old you are , but I am facing the same thing. But each time my test levels take longer to come back and they continue to be lower. I am tired of the recovery, but I am scared to hell of TRT for life. I train like a mutha ***er and the muscle just doesn't come back as its used too. I guess this is why they call it getting old! LOL. Scared for the kids at 20 goin' on hrt. As for the OP ? I've gone up and down, but my weight has always stayed within +/- 10#s but my cycles haven't been over the top

**marcus300** · 03-02-2010, 03:04 AM

Originally Posted by alpenguy

Marcus, I dont know how old you are , but I am facing the same thing. But each time my test levels take longer to come back and they continue to be lower. I am tired of the recovery, but I am scared to hell of TRT for life. I train like a mutha ***er and the muscle just doesn't come back as its used too. I guess this is why they call it getting old! LOL. Scared for the kids at 20 goin' on hrt. As for the OP ? I've gone up and down, but my weight has always stayed within +/- 10#s but my cycles haven't been over the top

How old are you?
What are your test levels?
Why are you scared of HRT?

I am 42yrs old by the way

**Swifto** · 03-02-2010, 04:34 AM

Yeah, I can see HRT coming my way in the future. My endo. testosterone levels are poretty high and were very high during puberty, but I dont think I'm going to be able to cycle and recover for life.

The thoughts of HRT doesnt put me off or scare me. Who doesnt want to be 18 years old again at an older age? I'm not losing my labido and going through the male manapause, not a chance!

Nebido with a bit of GH all the way!

**marcus300** · 03-02-2010, 10:03 AM

Originally Posted by Swifto

Yeah, I can see HRT coming my way in the future. My endo. testosterone levels are poretty high and were very high during puberty, but I dont think I'm going to be able to cycle and recover for life.

The thoughts of HRT doesnt put me off or scare me. Who doesnt want to be 18 years old again at an older age? I'm not losing my labido and going through the male manapause, not a chance!

Nebido with a bit of GH all the way!

Ive noticed in the UK its a little harder to get on HRT especially if your in your 20's, the syptoms have to be harsh or have a understanding Endo. I see alot of guys just going back on cycle because they cant bring their test levels back up and they cant stand the feeling of low test, kind of vicious circle and is a big problems within gyms.

**Swifto** · 03-02-2010, 11:04 AM

Originally Posted by marcus300

Ive noticed in the UK its a little harder to get on HRT especially if your in your 20's, the syptoms have to be harsh or have a understanding Endo. I see alot of guys just going back on cycle because they cant bring their test levels back up and they cant stand the feeling of low test, kind of vicious circle and is a big problems within gyms.

80% of the people I know in my gym that cycle (most people) dont even know what PCT is. They do a couple of shots of HCG after their cycle and stay off for about 3-6 weeks, then cycle again.

No AI's, no SERM's, no PCT, nicht.

I find when I try to tell someone something, they just look at me like I dont have a clue, then argue there way is better because of some bullshit. There's a few big guys and they have the mentatlity of 'Who the f*ck are you to tell me, I'm twice your size' kinda thing. So I dont even bother anymore.

One guy told me to run GH for 3-4 weeks.

Another told me never to mix water based and oil based injectables. I was told, "You have no idea what your doing. When someone f*cks themselve up its because of you young idiots". LOL

Deca and Dbol is a good bulker.

Tren doesnt have many side effects. It doesnt shut you down as much as Test.

Whats Clomid? Whats Tamoxifen ?

That kinda thing...

**FranciscoG** · 03-02-2010, 02:10 PM

Originally Posted by marcus300

Ive noticed in the UK its a little harder to get on HRT especially if your in your 20's, the syptoms have to be harsh or have a understanding Endo. I see alot of guys just going back on cycle because they cant bring their test levels back up and they cant stand the feeling of low test, kind of vicious circle and is a big problems within gyms.

Same in the states. Not in Mexico. Its amazing but you just do not see abuse here as much even though legality is not an issue. The cost of human grade gear is in comparison to a an average Mexican´s income is vastly different than the same ratio in the developed nations. People simply do not make that much.

**dec11** · 03-02-2010, 02:11 PM

Originally Posted by ErectileTissue

Go here:

http://www.steroid.com/side.php

And look at "Inhibition of Natural Hormones". Here's an excerpt:

Right now I'm searching the internet looking for that study that said 99%. I'll post back here when I find it.

man, give it up, your threads are some of the stupidest ive read

**alpenguy** · 03-02-2010, 02:37 PM

Originally Posted by marcus300

How old are you?
What are your test levels?
Why are you scared of HRT?

I am 42yrs old by the way

46
400ng/dl
Scared because Ill be doing it for the rest of my life PERIOD. No one knows the long term effects of staying on that long, especially if you start in your 20's! I'm going through a hard recovery right now and trying to figure it out the best I can for me. What I do know is that the increase in your RBC/ hematocrit can have serious issues over the long haul, probably this is my main concern.

**FranciscoG** · 03-02-2010, 02:43 PM

Originally Posted by alpenguy

46
400ng/dl
Scared because Ill be doing it for the rest of my life PERIOD. No one knows the long term effects of staying on that long, especially if you start in your 20's! I'm going through a hard recovery right now and trying to figure it out the best I can for me. What I do know is that the increase in your RBC/ hematocrit can have serious issues over the long haul, probably this is my main concern.

That is dosage related. If you are cruising on 100mg EW it just does not happen unless you have a genetic affinity for it. That issue can always be monitored.

**Hard.On** · 03-02-2010, 03:07 PM

TO MARCUS AND CYRUS

What were your starting weights when you started using AAs

You both have phenomenal builds in your avatar photos

**FranciscoG** · 03-02-2010, 03:22 PM

I started when I was also 18. I was 150 or so pounds. But you have to take into account thats is many years of cycles.

As for Marcus he was 3´11´´ when he started oh wait he still is.... j/k

**marcus300** · 03-02-2010, 04:18 PM

Originally Posted by PharmDoc-Cyrus

That is dosage related. If you are cruising on 100mg EW it just does not happen unless you have a genetic affinity for it. That issue can always be monitored.

Agreed, when your on hrt you are monitored with regular bloodwork and at HRT dose they isnt any issues at all IMHO only benefits, all your doing is replacing what levels you use to have with weekly injections because your body doesnt make enough anymore, there are far more positive IMHO.

**marcus300** · 03-02-2010, 04:20 PM

Originally Posted by twotimer

TO MARCUS AND CYRUS

What were your starting weights when you started using AAs

You both have phenomenal builds in your avatar photos

I was around 155lbs at 5ft 10" and I started lifting weights at 18-19yrs old

Originally Posted by PharmDoc-Cyrus

I started when I was also 18. I was 150 or so pounds. But you have to take into account thats is many years of cycles.

As for Marcus he was 3´11´´ when he started oh wait he still is.... j/k

I hope you mean wide

**alpenguy** · 03-02-2010, 07:07 PM

Originally Posted by marcus300

Agreed, when your on hrt you are monitored with regular bloodwork and at HRT dose they isnt any issues at all IMHO only benefits, all your doing is replacing what levels you use to have with weekly injections because your body doesnt make enough anymore, there are far more positive IMHO.

I just came off a crash from a late PCT that did not really take. Don't need to get into that right now.For the last 5 months I have been monitoring my blood and even when my test was at 10 and LH/FSH was below 1, my blood RBC HEMO never came down. Nor did cholesterol.. after 5 months. My endo said your at risk for heart attack/stroke with those levels. I am lucky at my age that my test is coming back,but I have a long way to go to feel normal. but this TRT thing is hovering around me

**marcus300** · 03-02-2010, 10:20 PM

Originally Posted by alpenguy

I just came off a crash from a late PCT that did not really take. Don't need to get into that right now.For the last 5 months I have been monitoring my blood and even when my test was at 10 and LH/FSH was below 1, my blood RBC HEMO never came down. Nor did cholesterol.. after 5 months. My endo said your at risk for heart attack/stroke with those levels. I am lucky at my age that my test is coming back,but I have a long way to go to feel normal. but this TRT thing is hovering around me

If your RBC's are to high dont just sit around waiting for them to come down, have some blood out that will take instant care of it, its far better than waiting 100 days which is what i got told it take your blood to clean itself. If you have low test and you cant bring back your nat test hrt is the only answer.

**alpenguy** · 03-03-2010, 12:00 AM

Originally Posted by marcus300

If your RBC's are to high dont just sit around waiting for them to come down, have some blood out that will take instant care of it, its far better than waiting 100 days which is what i got told it take your blood to clean itself. If you have low test and you cant bring back your nat test hrt is the only answer.

...and what I was told! Interesting that that will take care of it. Wonder when you lose that oxygenated blood if that will help your nat test?