Junior Member
I just read your post about moderate users keeping gains, so I was just curious. Lets say a 26 yr old who was 6 foot 190 12% bf, this person would probably have a natural max somewhere in the 220 range. so lets say they were to do 1 cycle, with proper pct and proper post cycle diet and training, and they gained 30 pounds, would this person be able to permanently stay at about 215 without doin another cycle? Anyone else who wants to chime in feel free. thanks
Productive Member
yesOriginally Posted by scorgasm
as long as you up the caloric intake to support the new muscle your body should find a new happy homeostasis within it's natural limit
Junior Member
Okay so if it;s possible to reach and maintain close to your natural max from a cycle, why do so many people recommend reaching ur max naturally first?
Associate Member
YOUR NOT MARCUS! IMPOSTOR!
'everything louder than everything else'
inaccurate, ive neva kept all gained on a cycle, and my diet is always in check
Associate Member
i doubt anyone waits on there natural limit and if they do then I would assume they have to stay on a cruise dosage You do need a couple years training and lots of diet and training knowledge in or your just wasteing your money imho. Not to mention the fact your going to wreck your tendons and legiments without some heavy training under your belt.
Last edited by Little Herc; 02-28-2010 at 08:50 PM.
Junior Member
I understand that you're never gonna be as big off as you are while you're on, but you have made some permanent gains? say at least 50 % of muscle gained from a cyle?
Associate Member
You can keep 1/2 your muscle gains easily. If your cycleing something like dbol and test e your going to lose alot of weight at the end but its going to be mostly water if your diet is in check.
Junior Member
yes you should be able to keep pretty much all the gains you made if you keep working hard, do your PCT right, keep your diet in check, etc..
hope you weren't hoping to gain 30lbs of muscle from your first cycle though..make sure you set yourself realistic goals!
Junior Member
Yeah I'm not sure what to expect in terms of size gains, i just heard your first cycle is usually your best, assuming you do everything right, I've only started doing heavy research recently, hoping to soak up as much knowledge as possible before making a final decision.
Junior Member
good to hear man
Banned
I think the weighing scales is not a good indicator of how well you're doing.
On my first cycle, taking Sustanon on its own, I gained 28 pounds.
...but it wasn't 28 pounds of muscle! Everyone was telling me was face was pudgy, and my abs were starting to disappear! I think it was mostly water!
Now I'm on my second cycle, and I haven't gained nearly as much weight... but I'm happy about it because I'm gaining muscle without gaining so much fat, and I don't have much water retention at all.
One kilogram of muscle has a volume of about 943 ml (it's just 6% short of an entire litre). The point I want to make is that 1 kg of muscle is BIG! Next time you go buy some meat, just look at how big 1kg of beef steak is, it's a lot of muscle!
If I gain 10 pounds of actual muscle on this cycle I'll be delighted, it will make a massive difference to how I look.
~Retired~ AR-Platinum Elite-Hall of Famer ~
You would be better off reaching your natural weight limit via hard training and diet, this would build great foundation and secure your muscle mass, if your daily calories are adjusted to support your new found muscle you wont have a problem in maintaining your weight and size naturally.
If your only looking at doing one cycle to get to your natural weight limit and never doing a cycle again, I wouldn't advice you to do it, why risk complication when you can get to this weight limit easily by hardwork and diet, some people will have problems with their ability to recover and some even after their first cycle may experience issues with their natural testosterone, why would anyone risk that when they are only going to do one cycle and they can get to this weight limit natural and have no issues with recovery.
Keeping gains form AAS would also depend on how much muscle your trying to maintain over your natural limit, if its only a few lbs you will be able to support this by hard training and diet but you have to remember many people think they are lossing muscle tissue when off cycle but most of the weight loss is water weight and alot is to do with poor training and inadequate diets not supporting the new found muscle.
DUNAMIS ~ AR-Elite Hall of Famer~
everyone is different and has different metabolisms so you cant say everyone who is 6' tall has a natural max 0f 220lbs. metabolisim and genetics play a role here
source checks- 200 posts and 6 month membership min. entirely within my discretionPT is a fictional character and all posts are for entertainment purposes only.
Sapiens Fingit Fortunam Sibi
...x2
'everything louder than everything else'
the honest truth is very little is kept longterm post cycle
Junior Member
So are you saying theres still a risk of permanently decreasing natural test levels, even with one cycle done properly?
Junior Member
yes.
Senior Member
i hear this alot----why even cycle?
Anabolic Member
Quality of life.
Junior Member
care to elaborate?
Junior Member
ok so basically once you cycle theres no going back? like if you decide to "cross the line" then it should be more of a repeated long term thing?
Anabolic Member
Specially when you get older. No joke. I would never want to be clean and aas free for life.
~Retired~ AR-Platinum Elite-Hall of Famer ~
Many guys cycle and recover but of course there are some what never seem to regain their natural testosterone to what it was when it was before the cycle. Normally the younger you are the better recovery but there is always exceptions.
Thats very true, the older you get its really hard to even function without AAS
Anabolic Member
Where do I start?
Well 40 is not the new 18.
At 40+ when you bust your ass and lift and diet and do everything right you are just waisting away. No pun or joke intended. You will not regenerate. It just does not happen.
From the skin on your face to the the hair on your head peptides like hGH help.
Your sex drive well that one everyone knows about.
Person view is the peak time of your life. Marcus can elaborate from his point of view on this one.
I feel that with use of aas/hGH in place of peaking in your late 28s you actually peak in your 40s. Hence the reason why so many bodybuilders and power lifters are 35+... It does have a lot to do with life style also.
Anabolic Member
Beat me by 1 min. Fast today Marcus...lolMany guys cycle and recover but of course there are some what never seem to regain their natural testosterone to what it was when it was before the cycle. Normally the younger you are the better recovery but there is always exceptions.
Thats very true, the older you get its really hard to even function without AAS
'everything louder than everything else'
pretty much, i found recovery gettin worse, weights gettin tougher etc so said sod it, cruise/trt time.
~Retired~ AR-Platinum Elite-Hall of Famer ~
It was rather easy to build muscle in my 20's I must admit, but I was using alot of gear more or less throughout this period, when I hit my 30's my body change again and matured and went very thick set and tight, in my 40's i havent cycled as of yet but i am very close to going back on, I am a machine when it comes to eating/diets/training and even with what I put myself through I find it very difficult to support my mass and size without any gear, every year i tend to lose more and more, oh and the aches and pains from heavy lifting is so depressing i truely ache from head to toe without gear...I think its time for a changeWhere do I start?
Well 40 is not the new 18.
At 40+ when you bust your ass and lift and diet and do everything right you are just waisting away. No pun or joke intended. You will not regenerate. It just does not happen.
From the skin on your face to the the hair on your head peptides like hGH help.
Your sex drive well that one everyone knows about.
Person view is the peak time of your life. Marcus can elaborate from his point of view on this one.
I feel that with use of aas/hGH in place of peaking in your late 28s you actually peak in your 40s. Hence the reason why so many bodybuilders and power lifters are 35+... It does have a lot to do with life style also.
I have to be with young ones around like you
Junior Member
So after years have using aas have you had any adverse health effects?
Member
i would like to know where you got this info from please? In fact, i gained just at 28lbs on my first cycle and it was a short/burst cycle of only 5 weeks... So i gained 30lbs almost in just over a month, and afterwards i only kept about 15lbs... Now i will say that my pct wasn't up to par, but my diet was and i still trained hard after cycle. So i would like to know how to keep 25 out of 30 lbs on a cycle... I haven't heard of it on here that i can remember?
Also, i have read and from using personally, i would say that out of any cycle... The first is your best chance at gaining 30lbs and keeping as much as possible.
Pls post your source of info if this is a fact. Sorry if i am mistaken, just speaking from personal and most frequently posted results from cycles.
Thanks,
"dirty d"
New Member
[QUOTE=marcus300;5090584]It was rather easy to build muscle in my 20's I must admit, but I was using alot of gear more or less throughout this period, when I hit my 30's my body change again and matured and went very thick set and tight, in my 40's i havent cycled as of yet but i am very close to going back on, I am a machine when it comes to eating/diets/training and even with what I put myself through I find it very difficult to support my mass and size without any gear, every year i tend to lose more and more, oh and the aches and pains from heavy lifting is so depressing i truely ache from head to toe without gear...I think its time for a change
That sucks, but I guess part of it.
Anabolic Member
Sure, one cycle I had ED cause I used tren ace and deca with little to no test.
From tren ace I got emotional on a few cycles.
The term pct did not exist when I did my first cycle. I crashed post first cycle.
~Retired~ AR-Platinum Elite-Hall of Famer ~
I've had a few complaints such as blood pressure and hairloss ect but I would say the most adverse ones would be when I had Polycythemia in which I was hospitalised and had to have a venus section because my RBC's were at a very dangerous level, I feel this was my own fault though because I was having regular bloodwork done but I decided that I didn't need it for a few months and I was cycling heavy which resulted in my having polycythemia, words of wisdom get regular blood work done if your cycling it can safe your life.
I am also on HRT for life which is a direct result of using AAS which I feel is the most adverse side effect I've had, I went through hell everyday when I had low testosterone, the demons were very hard to cope with and with all the other sides effects of low Test it was unbearable
Anabolic Member
Me right now. I been off for 8 weeks tomorrow. I am supposed to get back on wed. My test levels are low. I was diving for 4 hours on sat. I came home sat night and was in bed at 8 pm. Life without testosterone and life with testosterone are two different things.
~Retired~ AR-Platinum Elite-Hall of Famer ~
How old are you?
What are your natural levels?
When do you think you will swap that weak HCG in for HRT then?
Anabolic Member
Gonna be 40 pretty soon.How old are you?
What are your natural levels?
When do you think you will swap that weak HCG in for HRT then?
Natural levels...lol When I was 35 I did a spot on pct and stayed off 5 months came back 314. If there is a high from aas I had it when I got back on after that failure. lol
I get off and use hCG just for myostatin. Hell I know it would feel better if I kept taking 200mgs a week but you know...
'everything louder than everything else'
swifto posted an interesting thread about creatine blocking myostatin
Anabolic Member
If it worked all the 16 year-olds would be giants from wal-mart creatine. 56 days on cycle and you are upregulated. About 20 weeks myostatin drops but it is unclear for how long and so on...
'everything louder than everything else'
dunno, he's quite on the ball with all this stuff
~Retired~ AR-Platinum Elite-Hall of Famer ~
So you don't know what your levels are to date? last bloodwork was 5 yrs ago?
It is so hard to maintain at our age, I struggled so much for about 3 years trying to recover and bring back my natural test levels but each time after I cycled it was getting worse and worse no matter what I did, my Doctor had no other choice HRT completely changed my life it was like going back 20yrs
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