nolva or arimidex when on HCG cycle

[mgs83]

I was reading that nolva and HCG work very well together. I have been told from different sources to use arimidex, but here i read nolva. What is really the better one to use? Seeing how while using nolva during HCG helps stop HCG from de-sensitizing your testicles to natural LH , a dosage could be HCG at about 500iu ED and Nolva 20mg ED. This is done before PCT starts, so i would think use these two in the last 3 weeks of your test-e cycle? then what, do i have to wait 14 days without taking anything before i can start PCT?

[tboney]

I would use hcg at low dosages during cycle or the last two weeks before pct starts. If you use it at doses at or below 500ius ed for the two weeks before pct I dont believe you will have any desensitization issue.

The hcg use will cause a rise in estro so I would use adex. Nolva will not lower estro, it will just occupy the estro receptors in your breast tissue.

Use adex at .25 or .5 ed during the hcg use and the day before pct starts stop. Next day start your pct of nolva/clomid or clomid/torem....

[teddykgb29]

go with the nolva and clomid for the pct, good luck.

[Bossman]

I would use hcg at low dosages during cycle or the last two weeks before pct starts. If you use it at doses at or below 500ius ed for the two weeks before pct I dont believe you will have any desensitization issue.

The hcg use will cause a rise in estro so I would use adex. Nolva will not lower estro, it will just occupy the estro receptors in your breast tissue.

Use adex at .25 or .5 ed during the hcg use and the day before pct starts stop. Next day start your pct of nolva/clomid or clomid/torem....

^^^
Im on HCG now and this is exactly what Im doing.

[mgs83]

awesome, thanks tboney and cgb......so i will use hcg 500ius 2 week prior to my pct starting which essentially means after my last test injection i start the HCG and adex for 2 weeks then PCT? I should take a-dex throughout my cycle as well so i can minimize bloating and possible chances of getting gyno right? how would this sound? so many people say different thing when it comes to HCG, but in all reality, is it best to use HCG e3d at 250ius while take a-dex at .25 or .5mgs eod while on cyle all the way up untill my PCT is supposed to start? jus want to shoot some ideas out, so i can maybe work with some different options....i am new to all this, so dont mind my anxiety!

[FranciscoG]

Hcg usage on a daily bases cause the production of E2 and PRG even before any T is produced

Causes Causes Causes



An AI will not not not stop the natural production of E2. An AI inhibits the conversion of T to estrogen.

Gynocomastia is a progressive condition. Using 500 IU of hCG ED as you discribed will add up to 3500IU per week and will contribute to gynocomastia without using a nolv.

[mgs83]

hey pharm doc, what is i were to use 250ius e3d of HCG while taking .25mg of a-dex from the beginning of my cycle which is 12 weeks, and going all the way with it up untill i start my PCT 14 days after my last test-e injection? then clomid/nolva for PCT? WOuld that cause me issues as welll such as de-sensitizing or gyno ?

[FranciscoG]

hey pharm doc, what is i were to use 250ius e3d of HCG while taking .25mg of a-dex from the beginning of my cycle which is 12 weeks, and going all the way with it up untill i start my PCT 14 days after my last test-e injection? then clomid/nolva for PCT? WOuld that cause me issues as welll such as de-sensitizing or gyno ?

Again an AI will not have an effect on natural production of E2.

If you are gyno prone. Which many are and those that are seam to have a bad reaction to even small amounts of E2. You will see a progession of gyno.

What I mean by that is simple.

First you will notice a puffy tissue and slowly a solid amount of tissue will form and enlarge.

I believe usage of hCG should be kept to less than 12 weeks.

[mgs83]

i was under the impression that you needed to take an AI or SERM with HCG? I read a thread by swifto saying HCG/Nolva? But again i was told to take a-dex or aromasin while on HCG. do you have a recommendation for a good HCG cycle pharm doc? i never cycled with HCG or test, so i would love to hear what you suggest.

[FranciscoG]

What exactly is your cycle? In detail state all the compounds you are going to be taking and the lenght.

[mgs83]

well, it is rather simple since it is my first. All i will be doing is a 12 week cycle of test-enanthate 250mg 2X week (Monday am, Thursday pm). I was going to take a-dex while on cycle to minimize bloating and possibly gyno? make sense? please let me know what you think would be best for HCG as well as even for my cycle? thanks pharm!

PCT
Clomid (100/50/50.50)/Nolva(40/20/20/20)

[no47]

is it really necessary to take an hcg on a 12 week cycle?

[FranciscoG]

well, it is rather simple since it is my first. All i will be doing is a 12 week cycle of test-enanthate 250mg 2X week (Monday am, Thursday pm). I was going to take a-dex while on cycle to minimize bloating and possibly gyno? make sense? please let me know what you think would be best for HCG as well as even for my cycle? thanks pharm!

PCT
Clomid (100/50/50.50)/Nolva(40/20/20/20)

1) For your PCT period do not set a number of weeks. It takes different people different periods of time to recover. Stock up extra amounts of SERMs.

2) Your AI will counter the reaction for T conversion to E. Keep extra nolva on hand however. I would personally not use hCG months on end without nolv. It is your choice though. First stage of gyno is extra fluids around the nipples, if this happens add in the nolva.

[mgs83]

so what your saying is not to use HCG months on end, so what if i used hcg my last month on cycle 250ius e3d, while im taking a-dex. I am confused on waht you are saying, im sorry, but you need to take a AI while on cycle to block test from turning into estrogen, and i was gonna take a-dex .25mg eod for my cycle just to be safe. For the HCG, last 4 weeks at the dosage i listed above right into my day before i start PCT would be ok?

[FranciscoG]

That is just to low of a dosage of hCG for the last 4 weeks.

You will need to up that to 1000 IU 3 times a week. After just 3-4 weeks you are inhibited it will take more hCG to get you going.

You will need nolva with hCG to inhibit the ER. If you want to use an AI with a SERM that is your choice.

[Bossman]

Hcg usage on a daily bases cause the production of E2 and PRG even before any T is produced

Causes Causes Causes



An AI will not not not stop the natural production of E2. An AI inhibits the conversion of T to estrogen.

Gynocomastia is a progressive condition. Using 500 IU of hCG ED as you discribed will add up to 3500IU per week and will contribute to gynocomastia without using a nolv.

WTF!!! My thinking on this was that the HCG would increase T production and an AI would be the right choice to stop the conversion. So you're saying HCG increases E2 prior so Nolva would be the right choice if you're gyno prone???

[FranciscoG]

WTF!!! My thinking on this was that the HCG would increase T production and an AI would be the right choice to stop the conversion. So you're saying HCG increases E2 prior so Nolva would be the right choice if you're gyno prone???

Yes, hCG forces your body to produce E2.

The OP which is planning on using 3500IU EW will be exposed to E2 on a regular basis.

[mgs83]

this confuses me now, since i am not to familiar with all these acronyms just yet, can you put this is simpler terms for me. Question is, is HCG going to de-sensitize me in the long run?? are there any medical studies or prove to deny this idea? What is E2, ND OP?? i just want to know what would be the BEST thing for me to do for an HCG cycle and when to start it with dosages. WHat has worked for you pharmdoc, cgb, and anyone else?? help or suggestions would be great. Like i said i am going to be doing a 12 week cycle of test-e 250mg 2X week, do you even suggest HCG for such a short cylce? could i recover just on the clomid and nolva during PCT??

[Bossman]

Yes, hCG forces your body to produce E2.

The OP which is planning on using 3500IU EW will be exposed to E2 on a regular basis.

Thanks for the good info PhramDoc! I often get lost in the scientific mumbo jumbo. Good to have members on here who understand that part of supps.