First Cycle, Prop & Mast - 12 weeks any feeback would be great

[pitbull84]

Hey,
So I'm considering starting my first cycle mid-April, I will be going for a full physical and blood work this week or next week to make sure that is all ok, based on my research and help from a few people this is what I've thrown together any feedback or suggestions/comments would be greatly appreciated, weather its on quantities, substances, length of time etc. My main goal from this cycle is to get between 200-210 staying fairly lean, not bloat too much, and really focus on increasing all my lifts as much as possible.

Background info:
26 years old
been lifting on and off fairly consistantly for close to 8 years
5' 8.5"
currently 190 10-12%bf
when I started training when I was 18 & 130 lbs, so I have made a lot of natural progress before considering this.

Cycle:
Test Prop: 400mg/week shot EOD
Masteron: 400mg/week shot EOD
Nolva on hand just in case

PCT (still doing a bit of tweaking here, so feedback appreciated)
4 weeks
1 - 20 mg Nolva/day, HCG 500iu 2x's/week, Aromasin (if I can get my hands on it) 20mg/day
2 - 20 mg Nolva/day, HCG 500iu 2x's/week, Aromasin 20mg/day
3 - 20 mg Nolva/day, Aromasin 20mg/day
4 - 20 mg Nolva/day
Probably some type of natural test booster throughout and lots of vitamin E

will probably be consuming somewhere in the neighborhood of 4000-6000 cals/day, haven't completely laid it out yet.

Will be training 5 days on, 2 off.

The training and nutrition Iam extremely confident I manage a gym, and I have a friend with about 20 years of AAS experience who will be helping me with that, the steroids however are new to me and I wanted to get as many different opinions along with the research I have done.

Like I said absolutely any feedback would be awesome.

Thanks

[RANA]

Since this is your first cycle you should consider just using test. The main reason is if you develop sides do you know which one gave you thoses sides?

[D7M]

^Agreed.

I'd also add clomid to your pct.

And at your stats, I highly doubt you need 6K cals to grow

[alpmaster]

Since this is your first cycle you should consider just using test. The main reason is if you develop sides do you know which one gave you thoses sides?

Well he'd pretty much have to deduce that it's the mast giving the unwanted sides, because if it was the test that gave him the sides (btw what sides would we be looking at with 400mg of test?) then he'd be pretty much screwed out of steroid use since you "have" to run test with every cycle.

I don't understand these blanket statements, sorry.

[RANA]

Well he'd pretty much have to deduce that it's the mast giving the unwanted sides, because if it was the test that gave him the sides (btw what sides would we be looking at with 400mg of test?) then he'd be pretty much screwed out of steroid use since you "have" to run test with every cycle.

I don't understand these blanket statements, sorry.

You just answered your question, he could develop gyno (very bad) with test. If it is too bad then it is worth it. It's not really a blanket statement, it's basically gear 101

[D7M]

Yah, I have to agree with Rana here.

It's the safest thing to run one compound for your first cycle.

True, most people won't get any really bad sides from a first cycle dose (300-600mg/wk of test)

but some might.

And no, you don't HAVE to run test with every cycle. Hell, I've even done oral only cycles without test,

But it's recommended for all the obvious reasons that you already know, Alp.

[alpmaster]

You just answered your question, he could develop gyno (very bad) with test. If it is too bad then it is worth it. It's not really a blanket statement, it's basically gear 101

Seriously? He'd get bad gyno from 400mgs of test? And without bringing in the anti-e properties of mast, he couldn't run a tiny dose of adex if indeed he would manage to get intolerable ERSEs from that much test?


I know it make look like I'm trying to be a hard ass, but I'm not. I think you guys are just a little too against anything other than the standard "500mg of test for first cycle". He's not talking about 700mg of tren stacked with 600mg of deca as his first cycle, just a simple and modest test and mast combo which would do pretty well seeing with the summer weather coming up and how bloated one can get with even just test only cycles. Cmon the cycle laid out isn't the standard, but it's perfectly reasonable.

[RANA]

Seriously? He'd get bad gyno from 400mgs of test? And without bringing in the anti-e properties of mast, he couldn't run a tiny dose of adex if indeed he would manage to get intolerable ERSEs from that much test?

I know it make look like I'm trying to be a hard ass, but I'm not. I think you guys are just a little too against anything other than the standard "500mg of test for first cycle". He's not talking about 700mg of tren stacked with 600mg of deca as his first cycle, just a simple and modest test and mast combo which would do pretty well seeing with the summer weather coming up and how bloated one can get with even just test only cycles. Cmon the cycle laid out isn't the standard, but it's perfectly reasonable.

Yes serious! I don't know how bad he can get gyno off of only 400mg pw, do you. There are too many factors to assume one will or won’t get gyno.

It seems like you are missing the basics, can you guarantee that he wont get gyno off of 400mg?

[alpmaster]

Yeah you're right, the massive estrogen production with 400mg of test might just be too much to handle, and of course the masteron though often noted for it's anti-estrogen properties, would just make matters worse. And lastly, adex or nolva would be completely incompetent at solving the problem.

Ok guys, you win.

[pitbull84]

Since this is your first cycle you should consider just using test. The main reason is if you develop sides do you know which one gave you thoses sides?

I could be wrong on this cause I'm going on theory and not applied knowledge but correct me if I'm wrong. As Masteron is a DHT derivative and is used in treating breast cancer my chances of this aromatizing to estrogen is nil, it also will not bind to progesteron receptors, and has shown anti-estrogen effects, so if i start to develop gyno or bloat I can be confident it's coming from the prop, but also isn't that the purpose of having Nolva on hand to prevent this and i'll also have aromasin as well? And as for other sides, hair loss, acne, etc as Masteron is DHT based I would most likely be experiencing these from that.

^Agreed.

I'd also add clomid to your pct.

And at your stats, I highly doubt you need 6K cals to grow

Clomid along with Nolva? are they not both SERM's which are being used to accomplish the same things, and clomid doesn't positively effect your LH production. Thats why i'm going with aromasin along with the Nolva as it is s aromitase inactivator. Also I'm probably already consuming between 3000-4000cals/day depending on the day, 6000 might be a bit much but I haven't plugged my food into my nutrition calculator yet so I could be off here.


By no means do I no everything, or even a small % of whats out there, I have done a lot of research, and took a fair amount of Biochem in university. I just want to have an intelligent conversation about my cycle to make sure it is sound, and again get any feed back. Thanks for the responses so far, keep em coming!

[pitbull84]

? bump, any feedback?

[Kdub]

If you are planning to cycle regularly, once or twice a year for many years, the advice here is good.

Test by itself is a great place to start and if this is the case then you are wise to choose another ester than Prop unless Prop is under 100mg per ml. At 50 mg/ml there is a little muscle soreness if used by itself. At 100mg/ml there is a good chance it will cripple you for 2-3 days.

If you are convinced that this will be the first of only a few cycles then go ahead and use the Prop and Mast however, we will warn you that using the gear is rarely limited to one cycle. There is a very good chance you will do numerous cycles.

[Dukkit]

my 2cc's

12 weeks first run of prop is askin alot. you ready to pin that much? you ready for some pain if you get painful prop?

also, speaking of pinning... in order to minimize all this estrogen and sides hoopla that they are discussing above... you should shoot everyday. for best gains, levels and least sides.

i do agree to just run test for this cycle. or even test and an oral.

mast is a weaker compound then most aas. but it does and will work drastically if used right... you dont need it yet.

if your diet and training are up to par as you say they are.... youll love your results from just test only

[pitbull84]

Ok, I appreciate the feedback. If I was to do a test only cycle, would you guys recommend prop, or should I do a longer lasting ester like Cypionate or Enanthate for a first cycle?

[stevey_6t9]

i like this cycle.. however maybe save it later down the road.

As D7M and RANA said above keep it a simple test cycle, i would also recommend enan or cyp instead of prop first time. it will save you from being a nice pin cushion first go.

[pitbull84]

Thanks for the feedback, after some more reading and talking to people I'm leaning towards just doing cyp alone for the 12 weeks to see how I respond to it. I will probably shoot 2x's per week to try and keep test levels more stable and will be taking an anti-e throughout as I don't want to get too puffy and definitely don't want gyno.
I am curious to know what anti-e people prefer to take while on cycle and why, arimadex, nolva, aromasin, letrozole?