Safest AAS for Men

[Chance1826]

I've been training with a top powerlifting champion for over a year now and have seen awesome gains, but have since hit a wall. My trainer wanted me to take 20mg of D-bol, ED for 6 weeks. Mind you my trainer was a pioneer in powerlifting and is highly respected in it and has done every steroid or stack known. I however, am not convinced that his recommendation for me to take D-bol is a great one. In fact, I'm opposed to it due to the side effects. I'm curious which AAS the members of this forum may recommend, which would be anywhere from very to fairly safe for men.

My current stats are

Age: 28
5'9"
181 Ibs
17% BF

My goal is to shred fat and build lean solid muscle and not add too much water weight. I though Winstrol stacked with Equipoise may be the solution because of it having the least amount of side effects. I'm a virgin to any type of steroid currently. I only take Parillo Creatine, Multi V, and his Mineral, as well as his 50/50 Protein daily.

Any help would be much appreciated...

[evil30]

Most vets will tell you that your BF is too high and diet and cardio are needed 1st. Then most will also probably recommend a good test base for your first cycle. I am no expert but would guess this is what most vets will advise. Good luck!

[terraj]

are you powerlifting or bodybuilding?

[no1tou]

First off if you hit a wall after only 1 year of training then your buddy is either not giving you good advise or your not taking it. As for his suggestion about a dbol only cycle, it's just plain bad advise. I would suggest you read all the stickies and stop taking advise from that guy.

I love how every thread started by a new guys starts out, "My friend who is God told me this and I know what he says is the gospel cause he's God." And 9 times outta 10 is horrible advise.

[no1tou]

are you powerlifting or bodybuilding?

He's definitely not bodybuilding at that bf%. He did mention his buddy was a power lifter so I can understand not being too worried about bf but hitting a wall after a year of training? Definitely a diet issue and/or training issue.

I trained for 6 years plus before I hit a wall and started AAS this year. I still had some gains to be made naturaly but they were coming way too slow at that point.

[jasperhup]

well, he only said he was with the powerlifter for 1 year, he may well have been lifting before that. also, powerlifting guys often have higher body fat and less total muscle mass than body builders (to stay in weight class) but can get freaky strong (i've lifted with skinny fat guys who lift the weight room, it's a bit off putting and you know why body builders lift in front of the mirror!).

anyhow, not saying his buddy is telling him the best idea, but i do know a couple old school powerlifter guys who say a short d ball 10-20mg cycle is the best first cycle, anyone know what the best quick strength cycle is? tbol?

also, bjj has shown us that a straight anaver cycle only was a lot better than most of us thought, so who knows?

[no1tou]

, powerlifting guys often have higher body fat and less total muscle mass than body builders (to stay in weight class) but can get freaky strong (i've lifted with skinny fat guys who lift the weight room

This I know first hand. My friend John Self held the national record for a little bit for natural bench. He was like 5'5" 165-170lbs and benched 365. He didn't look like he could even lift 225 much less 356. That guy is a freak.

However I'm also a firm believer that being short is a huge advantage in power lifting. At least untill the point where their body has no more room for mass.

[Chance1826]

Powerlifting...but looking to get cut up and build lean solid muscle.

are you powerlifting or bodybuilding?

[Knockout_Power]

Sides all come down to personal reactions to the compounds. I get almost 0 sides from any AAS including Tren, Im lucky that way. I also know guys who have a hell of a time recovering from a simple test cycle.

Read the profile on dianabol, you will see it should not be taken without test.

You will also notice that AAS is not recommended with higher bodyfat % as it can significantly increase the chances of sides. So if the sides are your biggest concern, get your bodyfat under 13% before cycling anything

[Chance1826]

That' where the problem is as well. My strength conditioning trainer who was a former black ops drill sgt in the Army says I'm around 17% and my strength trainer who is a world powerlifting champion says I'm about 14%. It's so FU'ed. My powerlifting trainer said I should go on D-bol to cut fat via it protein synthesis.

Most vets will tell you that your BF is too high and diet and cardio are needed 1st. Then most will also probably recommend a good test base for your first cycle. I am no expert but would guess this is what most vets will advise. Good luck!

[Chance1826]

It's diet, not training. I started eating 6 meals a day about a month ago, but have always ate right. I however, do not eat red meat but once a month, as I never cared for it.

He's definitely not bodybuilding at that bf%. He did mention his buddy was a power lifter so I can understand not being too worried about bf but hitting a wall after a year of training? Definitely a diet issue and/or training issue.

I trained for 6 years plus before I hit a wall and started AAS this year. I still had some gains to be made naturaly but they were coming way too slow at that point.

[Vitruvian-Man]

I've been training with a top powerlifting champion for over a year now and have seen awesome gains, but have since hit a wall. My trainer wanted me to take 20mg of D-bol, ED for 6 weeks. Mind you my trainer was a pioneer in powerlifting and is highly respected in it and has done every steroid or stack known. I however, am not convinced that his recommendation for me to take D-bol is a great one. In fact, I'm opposed to it due to the side effects. I'm curious which AAS the members of this forum may recommend, which would be anywhere from very to fairly safe for men.

My current stats are

Age: 28
5'9"
181 Ibs
17% BF

My goal is to shred fat and build lean solid muscle and not add too much water weight. I though Winstrol stacked with Equipoise may be the solution because of it having the least amount of side effects. I'm a virgin to any type of steroid currently. I only take Parillo Creatine, Multi V, and his Mineral, as well as his 50/50 Protein daily.

Any help would be much appreciated...

If you're looking to try out steroids then you should start with a testosterone based stack (IE)

Test-E (weeks 1 - 12) @ 500mg/wk
D-bol (weeks 1 - 4) @ 30 - 40mg/ed

If you're looking for something w/ less sides then d-bol you could run T-bol @ ~50mg/ed for 6 weeks. But don't expect the same explosive strength gains.

This type of cycle will help w/ strength gains, and is a much better cycle for maintaining and gaining more strength then just oral only cycles..

Make sure to research a PCT - which would consist of clomid + nolvadex - to run post cycle.

Good luck..

-VM

[Knockout_Power]

My powerlifting trainer said I should go on D-bol to cut fat via it protein synthesis.

Im guessing the boys on here know a lot more about AAS than your trainer. This is not meant as an insult, just the vet's on here are "experts".

Dbol is not a miracle drug and I think you will be quite dissapointed in the end result doing it his way. You may look leaner cause your muscles will grow and swell with water, strength will go up and you will be bloated, but happy with progress. Then when you come off, you will piss away 90% of it and realise whata waste of time it was on top of possibly doing damage to your liver etc.

[Chance1826]

How about Winny? I can get anything on the market... My buddies give test to themselves.. etc.. My SEAL buddies do a Winny / Equipoise stack...whcih seems to be working well.

[Knockout_Power]

Winny is very harsh on the liver and stings like hell as an injectable. You will be amazed at the results of a spot on diet and a simple Test cycle. If you can handle frequent injections, a 10-12 weeks Prop cycle will work wonders.

I was always a long ester guy, using mostly Cyp. But this time around Im using Prop to cut this spring and Im feeling better than usual. I felt in working (I shite you not) by day 10, libido was up substantially. Im at the end of week 3 and already lifting heavier, which is about 2 weeks ahead of where I was on either Cyp or Enan.

Using Eq requires a long term commitment as Ive been told by most users is a 16+ week cycle to gain its major benefits other than in a stack to promote hunger in a bulking cycle.

If you wanted to end a test cycle with winny for the last 6 weeks, make sure to run good liver support. But honestly, why use more than one compound first time around? Get a good understanding of what test does to you and then modify future cycles.

KP

[Chance1826]

Orals...no injections! lol Test come in an oral form? I hate needles with a passion..

Winny is very harsh on the liver and stings like hell as an injectable. You will be amazed at the results of a spot on diet and a simple Test cycle. If you can handle frequent injections, a 10-12 weeks Prop cycle will work wonders.

I was always a long ester guy, using mostly Cyp. But this time around Im using Prop to cut this spring and Im feeling better than usual. I felt in working (I shite you not) by day 10, libido was up substantially. Im at the end of week 3 and already lifting heavier, which is about 2 weeks ahead of where I was on either Cyp or Enan.

Using Eq requires a long term commitment as Ive been told by most users is a 16+ week cycle to gain its major benefits other than in a stack to promote hunger in a bulking cycle.

If you wanted to end a test cycle with winny for the last 6 weeks, make sure to run good liver support. But honestly, why use more than one compound first time around? Get a good understanding of what test does to you and then modify future cycles.

KP

[Nooomoto]

That' where the problem is as well. My strength conditioning trainer who was a former black ops drill sgt in the Army says I'm around 17% and my strength trainer who is a world powerlifting champion says I'm about 14%. It's so FU'ed. My powerlifting trainer said I should go on D-bol to cut fat via it protein synthesis.

What exactly is a "black ops drill sgt"?

I think your trainer(s) are blowing smoke up your ass, dude.

[dec11]

well, he only said he was with the powerlifter for 1 year, he may well have been lifting before that. also, powerlifting guys often have higher body fat and less total muscle mass than body builders (to stay in weight class) but can get freaky strong (i've lifted with skinny fat guys who lift the weight room, it's a bit off putting and you know why body builders lift in front of the mirror!).

anyhow, not saying his buddy is telling him the best idea, but i do know a couple old school powerlifter guys who say a short d ball 10-20mg cycle is the best first cycle, anyone know what the best quick strength cycle is? tbol?

also, bjj has shown us that a straight anaver cycle only was a lot better than most of us thought, so who knows?

not true, you just dont see the mass as clearly defined, and serious plifters dont particularily care for asthetics. ive plifted for 17yrs and i am starting to lean out a bit now and am fairly well carved with good mass, aswell as tht i've competed against many guys who were as ripped as any BB'er. plifting, like strongman, has become more athletic in recent times. OP, ive overcome plateaus naturally right up until my early 30's, sometimes a break is all you need, believe me

[Knockout_Power]

Test come in an oral form?

no it doesnt. Stay away from cycling please, this is for your health.

[Knockout_Power]

sometimes a break is all you need, believe me

great point... a week off to rethink your training or create a new program (which your trainer should be doing) can do wonders.

[dec11]

Orals...no injections! lol Test come in an oral form? I hate needles with a passion..

your kind of restricting yourself to anavar or tbol then, neither i belive are great for strength. halo is good for strength but i havent run it or know if test base is required, im sure sum1 will chip in on it

[AlphaMaleDawg]

test and dbol is a far better stack than winny and eq. you wont see much with that kind of cycle

[dec11]

great point... a week off to rethink your training or create a new program (which your trainer should be doing) can do wonders.

ya, one month of heavy doubles and trebles can burn me right out these days, guys need to understand tht you cant thrash your body with big lifts week in week out for a long period of time. plifting is largely dependant on routine cycling

[Knockout_Power]

your kind of restricting yourself to anavar or tbol then

that is an option. Var is expensive. I have a friend who used Var 4 on 4 off to cut about 30lbs over 6 months. He tried to run it 6 on the last time and found he had ED which took almost 4 months to recover his stamina.

[Chance1826]

No, they are not. I'm in the teams, and my one trainer is a former drill instructor for Army SF. I know for a fact they are both real, one has several books published about his powerlifting career and the other is well respected in the military.

What exactly is a "black ops drill sgt"?

I think your trainer(s) are blowing smoke up your ass, dude.

[dec11]

that is an option. Var is expensive. I have a friend who used Var 4 on 4 off to cut about 30lbs over 6 months. He tried to run it 6 on the last time and found he had ED which took almost 4 months to recover his stamina.

thts a nice decrease, not so good on the ED though, he could of done naturally aswell

[dec11]

No, they are not. I'm in the teams, and my one trainer is a former drill instructor for Army SF. I know for a fact they are both real, one has several books published about his powerlifting career and the other is well respected in the military.

but you cant train at his pace, hence your going stale/plateauing. you cant expect to train as intensely as a world champ, i wouldnt even come near his intensity and ive done it for 17yrs

[Chance1826]

Oh yeah we cycle the program quite a bit! My strength conditioning trainer just keeps adding to the pile of swimming, running, and other exercises we do as well. I never get a chance to win in my conditioning because once I reach the level of success, he just makes it harder. My strength trainer however switches the program up constantly and we space squats and dead lifts far apart, but bench weekly and do other exercises as well.

ya, one month of heavy doubles and trebles can burn me right out these days, guys need to understand tht you cant thrash your body with big lifts week in week out for a long period of time. plifting is largely dependant on routine cycling

[Chance1826]

Don't want ED, nor risk hair loss. I was told hair loss is not an immediate thing though anyways and especially if your not predisposed to it. Did you friend not do a Clomid or a Nolvadex?

that is an option. Var is expensive. I have a friend who used Var 4 on 4 off to cut about 30lbs over 6 months. He tried to run it 6 on the last time and found he had ED which took almost 4 months to recover his stamina.

[Chance1826]

Makes sense..

but you cant train at his pace, hence your going stale/plateauing. you cant expect to train as intensely as a world champ, i wouldnt even come near his intensity and ive done it for 17yrs

[Knockout_Power]

I know for a fact they are both real, one has several books published about his powerlifting career and the other is well respected in the military.

I wont take shots at your trainers, they sound very well respected in their acheivements and knowledge. But keep in mind that with titles won and books published, we dont know the underlying facts, like what their vital organs look like after doing things their way for years.

Arnold dominated bodybuilding and is probably the biggest name in the sport even now, has published books that have sold 10's of millions of copies.

He is now the reipient of a quadruple heart bypass?

My point is, theres a differnce between doing something for 30 years and doing it right for the same amount of time. The negatives are sometimes the trade off for the fame and acheivments, but for the rest of us who dont get to be #1, it can just end up in damage. (worst case scenario of course, doing it right can significantly avoid problems)

[dock holliday]

ive read that anavar is by far the safest steroid when done correctly but it does cause problems with your libido.

[dec11]

Oh yeah we cycle the program quite a bit! My strength conditioning trainer just keeps adding to the pile of swimming, running, and other exercises we do as well. I never get a chance to win in my conditioning because once I reach the level of success, he just makes it harder. My strength trainer however switches the program up constantly and we space squats and dead lifts far apart, but bench weekly and do other exercises as well.

i couldnt swim when i was training heavy, tri's and delts would just pump solid on me and on gear i sank like a stone lol. id def take a week out and come back and lighten the power stuff until youve reached a lower bf then vice versa and cut out some of the conditioning and increase the lifts again. its a long journey of small steps, no rush. good luck mate

[Nooomoto]

No, they are not. I'm in the teams, and my one trainer is a former drill instructor for Army SF. I know for a fact they are both real, one has several books published about his powerlifting career and the other is well respected in the military.F

That's bs, dude. Sorry. Look at the 18-series MOS'...there's not one for "drill instructor"

When, where, what did he instruct? What was his block of instruction? What color hat did he wear when he was a drill instructor? What was his MOS?

And now you're in the "teams"...meaning you're a SEAL? Ok...I've never met an operator that needed 2 trainers to help him get in shape, and I've met a few.

You're in the "teams"...which team? BUD/S graduating class?

[Chance1826]

My first priority is to shred fat very quickly. I than want to build lean solid muscle.

My Dead lift is 515

My Bench is 420

and my Squat is 395

I am in excellent conditioning cardio wise and generally run in a 180-200 heart rate for over 2 hours while working with my strength conditioning trainer. I just need a boost of something that will help me to shred the fat... so I can than focus on building lean solid muscle.

[Knockout_Power]

On a side not... This ia very good thread for beginners to read. It adresses a lot of frequently asked questions.

Chance... Im sure most on here would agree you should reconsider taking AAS (for the purpose of losing weight).. if you find you really want to do it to help with your program, whether it be strength, recovery etc, that is your decision. There is a lot of info passed along here and it will take a while to take it all in. Make sure you have a set goal and that AAS will actually be what you need to reach it. At your stats, it appears you only need to drop 12-14lbs to get near single digit bf%. Thats less than 2 months of proper eating. Just my .02

[Chance1826]

Actually it's not. He is a retired US Army SF drill instructor.
Yes, I chose to have one who is a personal friend train me because he wouldn't let up and said he would get me in better shape than anyone else. I took the bet. It's a long story..but I have two.

That's bs, dude. Sorry. Look at the 18-series MOS'...there's not one for "drill instructor"

And now you're in the "teams"...meaning you're a SEAL? Ok...I've never met an operator that needed 2 trainers to help him get in shape, and I've met a few.

[Chance1826]

I agree! 2 months and I need to be ready no later than May 7th.

On a side not... This ia very good thread for beginners to read. It adresses a lot of frequently asked questions.

Chance... Im sure most on here would agree you should reconsider taking AAS (for the purpose of losing weight).. if you find you really want to do it to help with your program, whether it be strength, recovery etc, that is your decision. There is a lot of info passed along here and it will take a while to take it all in. Make sure you have a set goal and that AAS will actually be what you need to reach it. At your stats, it appears you only need to drop 12-14lbs to get near single digit bf%. Thats less than 2 months of proper eating. Just my .02

[dec11]

My first priority is to shred fat very quickly. I than want to build lean solid muscle.

My Dead lift is 515

My Bench is 420

and my Squat is 395

I am in excellent conditioning cardio wise and generally run in a 180-200 heart rate for over 2 hours while working with my strength conditioning trainer. I just need a boost of something that will help me to shred the fat... so I can than focus on building lean solid muscle.

running is lowering your squat straight off, look at the diff in tht and your d'lift, should be very similar max's in these lifts and if your benching more than your squat something is badly wrong. im guessing your quite top heavy?

[Knockout_Power]

My first priority is to shred fat very quickly. I than want to build lean solid muscle.

My Dead lift is 515

My Bench is 420

and my Squat is 395

I am in excellent conditioning cardio wise and generally run in a 180-200 heart rate for over 2 hours while working with my strength conditioning trainer. I just need a boost of something that will help me to shred the fat... so I can than focus on building lean solid muscle.

Bro, your stats vs. lifting are pretty deadly. Good on you if that was done naturally. Maybe post a pic of yourself and the boys on here can guess your actual bodyfat. They are usually wihtin 1-2%.