Need serious help...I feel weird and think my gear is bogus

[Smallnaturalbuilder]

I don't know, but I'm suspecting about my Test. Prop. The source was very enthusiastic about the Winstrol (50mg tabs), but didn't tell me too much about the Test. Prop. Winstrol tabs are British Dragon (yellow, with a line dividing them, and it says BD on one side and 50 on the other). My Test. Prop is from Global AS Labs (which I never heard before).

I started the cycle last Wednesday (4 days ago) and have been feeling very weird. I haven't felt any increase in libido, but the contrary. I feel a very strange uneasy feeling on myself, and a mild discomfort in my testicle area. Strenght has not increased a tiny bit yet. I did a shot of 100mg of Test on Wednesday and another one on Friday. Been using half a tab every day (25mg).

I'm gonna do my third shot tomorrow, but tell me if I'm either paranoid, or am I rightfully concerned? I'm following a TKD diet and using the following supplements:

1-Multivitamin/Mineral
2-Potassium
3-Green Tea
4-Lipo 6
5-Whey/Casein protein (duh)
6-Flax Seed Oil

[JScondition]

It's too early in you cycle to tell if your gear is bunk. You will not feel the increased libido for possibly another two weeks even with test prop. I might change your injection of test prop to ed at 50mg. Mild discomfort in testicle area is to be expected. Give it some time and see if your symptoms go away.

[Smallnaturalbuilder]

Thanks for the reply bro, but I'm feeling reallly bad. I did a cycle of Test. Enanthate last year WHILE on a low carb/high protein diet and felt all the good sides of Test.

Right now as I'm writing this, I feel DEPRESSED. I don't feel any libido (and I'm a pretty horny guy), has this strange uneasy, sad feeling (like if something tragic had happened in my life) and have low energy levels.

I recently connected a girl and she's waiting to get f*** and I'm not going to call her cuz I'm afraid I won't get it up.

The worse thing is that I paid a lot for my cycle and I'm seriously thinking about throwing everything away and just eat carbs and start my Clomid. Perhaps it is a psychological breakdown, but trust me, I have a strong will and have followed mean strict diets before without feeling like this.

[taiboxa]

i think its in your head

[Smallnaturalbuilder]

i think its in your head

Could you elaborate a little bit more? Why do you think that? I usually don't feel anything like this.

[HawaiianPride.]

Your expecting too much too soon. Be patient and give it time.

[Bossman]

i think its in your head

It doesn't act that quick. Give it some time. Or maybe you're just not ready psychologically for AAS.

[taiboxa]

Could you elaborate a little bit more? Why do you think that? I usually don't feel anything like this.

firstly its too soon to make any true diagnosis, your dosing is EoD.. and you havent been very descriptive other than your having libido issues.. which is common when your body goes through a hormonal transition..
i think your having more WOMAN problems and not so much aas issues

[Smallnaturalbuilder]

It doesn't act that quick. Give it some time. Or maybe you're just not ready psychologically for AAS.

Let's give some stats so you guys can know a little bit more about myself:

Height: 5'9

Age: 25

Lifting experience:

I've been lifting since I was 17. My first year was ALL NATURAL and I went from a skinny fat 130lbs (probably with about 24% body fat) to 154lbs and maybe 18% body fat. From then on, HONESTLY, my experience has been ON and OFF until I was 24. On that period, I did prohormone cycles of 1-AD, Phera-Plex and Pro-Magnon 25, respectively (all without proper PCT). Only for my last pro hormone cycle I did Novedex XT. This was obviously horrible for me, but I recovered my libido eventuallly, even if not like I was before. This is perhaps one of the things that bothers me so much.

On January 2009 I started a Test. Enanthate cycle while on a low carb diet (another stupidity). I started at 146/12% body fat because I did a natural cut for 2 months. When I finished my 8 week Test. Enanthate cycle I was weighing 164 pounds at 14% body fat. I did proper PCT with HCG, Nolvadex/Arimidex. My libido recovered spectacularly but eventually lost some of my muscle mass because I stupidly continued to do a cutting diet in my hopes of looking cut in the summer. I dropped to 157 pounds at 13% body fat approximately.

On September 2009 I started an ALL NATURAL bulking diet. I went from 157 to 171 pounds by February 2010. The problem is I gained too much body fat and finished at 20%. I started an ALL NATURAL cutting diet on March 2010. I've been doing a low carb/high protein/moderate fat diet for 5 weeks and this last week I started a KETO diet. I achieved a drop in 10 pounds and currently weigh 161 at 17% body fat.

Started a TEst. Prop/Winny cycle this Wednesday. I'm shooting 100mg EOD and taking 25mg of Winstrol per day.

Current weight: 161 pounds
Bodyfat: 17%
(All bodyfat measures presented here were calculated with Tanita Century 4000)

I HOPE THIS HELPS!!

[Smallnaturalbuilder]

firstly its too soon to make any true diagnosis, your dosing is EoD.. and you havent been very descriptive other than your having libido issues.. which is common when your body goes through a hormonal transition..
i think your having more WOMAN problems and not so much aas issues

To be a little bit more descriptive....I didn't have morning wood today. Last days have been feeling with horribly low energy levels (feeling like a zombie). I have felt a mild pain in my testes, like a discomfort. I have a very uneasy feeling, like that of something disturbing me, like if I were depressed, but for NO reason.

I've felt a weird sensation in my groin area like I I just had an orgasm, and I mean the aftermath sensation, not the actual pleasure sensation.

None of these sides were experimented by me when I did Test. Enanthate last year while on a similar diet. Test. Enanthate is supposed to be slower acting, and I felt bigger muscles by the end of the week. I also felt very well in every department.

Hope this helps....

[Bossman]

You need to do some serious work on your diet. Im 5'8" and didn't start AAS until I had peaked at 224 lbs.

If you can't gain weight without AAS you won't be able to gain with AAS. Seriously, look at your supplement history. You used PH's as a teen with little gains, probably damaged your HPTA, had very modest gains on your Test E cycle and then lost them due to poor diet.

You need to go back to the basics, get your diet sorted out and training in order. They are not now. And really, are you mentally stable to handle an AAS cycle, doesn't sound like it.

[Smallnaturalbuilder]

You need to do some serious work on your diet. Im 5'8" and didn't start AAS until I had peaked at 224 lbs.

If you can't gain weight without AAS you won't be able to gain with AAS. Seriously, look at your supplement history. You used PH's as a teen with little gains, probably damaged your HPTA, had very modest gains on your Test E cycle and then lost them due to poor diet.

You need to go back to the basics, get your diet sorted out and training in order. They are not now. And really, are you mentally stable to handle an AAS cycle, doesn't sound like it.

I understand where you are going, but honestly, it wasn't a matter of poor diet, but mucho more of doing the wrong approach. As you can see, when I did a NATURAL bulk, I did grow up considerably, without any ASS. I went from 157 to 171. However, the problem is I did my Test cycle while cutting, which from I have read, won't ever give you huge gains. So the "moderate gains" were to be expected.

I have no problem with impatience or anything like that. What worries me is how I feel. Like I said, I've done prohormone cycles and steroid cycles before and NEVER EVER felt this way. In fact, when I did my Phera-Plex cycle I felt INCREDIBLY well in all aspects.

My training and diet are in order, honestly. They may not be "competitive like", but I'm sure it is leaps and bounds better than most guys that train in my gym, and they get results with the crap they do.

Don't get me wrong, I respect guys competitive or big guys like you, but like every book I have ever read on this subject, not everyone is equal or have the same genetics. I have probably done wonders with the horrible genetics I have.

I try to follow the best advice I can on diet and training, and have seen nice gains, but obviously have been unable to keep those gains made with prohormones because of lack of knowledge back then on how to do proper PCT and/or unability to get the proper compounds AND stupidity.

I'm gonna try to upload some pics....

[Bossman]

Can you list your diet, what you typically eat in a day.

With the PH you ran as a teen with no PCT, you may be a candidate for HRT. Ever had your bloodwork done?

[Smallnaturalbuilder]

Here are some pics of my current status to give you guys some ideas of my starting point:

[Smallnaturalbuilder]

Some more:

[Smallnaturalbuilder]

Can you list your diet, what you typically eat in a day.

With the PH you ran as a teen with no PCT, you may be a candidate for HRT. Ever had your bloodwork done?

I am very worried about that. I guess that is part of life, having horrrible consequences for stupid acts. I'm gonna list the diet soon, so more experienced guys like you can help me out. But I would like to know if you have ever experienced similar symptoms like the ones I 've described above, even if you have never experienced them before.

I have never done bloodwork for TEST per se. I have done blood work for the typical metabolic panel stuff, and last year my hepatic enzymes raised a little bit while ON cycle but recovered fine afterwards.

My BUN also increased, but I did read that was normal when you do a high protein diet with low carbs because apparently the lack of insulin doesn't help to push those aminos to muscle and they become waste nitrogen.

[Bossman]

When you manipulate your hormones, you will feel all kinds of weird ass ways. Your cycle hasn't kicked in enough yet to feel anything though, that's way I feel you're creating a lot of this in your mind. For this reason, people that have any psychological, emotional or mental complications should think twice before using AAS. If you think being on cycle is bad, PCT can be down right horrible.

Its easy to blame genetics, a slow or fast metabolism when you don't have your training and diet in order. You really should spend a lot of time on those things.

[Smallnaturalbuilder]

When you manipulate your hormones, you will feel all kinds of weird ass ways. Your cycle hasn't kicked in enough yet to feel anything though, that's way I feel you're creating a lot of this in your mind. For this reason, people that have any psychological, emotional or mental complications should think twice before using AAS. If you think being on cycle is bad, PCT can be down right horrible.

Its easy to blame genetics, a slow or fast metabolism when you don't have your training and diet in order. You really should spend a lot of time on those things.

That's fine. However, I think you didn't read what I said before. I have done this before. I always feel GREAT on cycle. I stick to my diet and training all the way through. I didn't have any psychological issues back then, why should I have them now? You need to remember I was able to get off the prohormones and did train naturally for basically a whole year. I don't think a mentally unstable young guy would be able to do that. Most guys of my age crumble after doing a prohormone cycle and never seem to be able to grow without being "on". That's not my case.

This is a case of me feeling great the last couple of years, and suddenly feeling like crap. I hope I can get my point across.

[taiboxa]

sticking TO your diet.. and having the CORRECT diet are two totally different ordeals, since diet by definition is what you eat on a regular basis

[Bossman]

That's fine. However, I think you didn't read what I said before. I have done this before. I always feel GREAT on cycle. I stick to my diet and training all the way through. I didn't have any psychological issues back then, why should I have them now? You need to remember I was able to get off the prohormones and did train naturally for basically a whole year. I don't think a mentally unstable young guy would be able to do that. Most guys of my age crumble after doing a prohormone cycle and never seem to be able to grow without being "on". That's not my case.

This is a case of me feeling great the last couple of years, and suddenly feeling like crap. I hope I can get my point across.

I got your point, yes you can and may feel all sorts of different things. Too many to list. That's typical on AAS. Being on isn't always such a great experience. Did you expect that? You are having a hard time now, right?? There are a whole host of potential sides with every type of AAS out there.

[Smallnaturalbuilder]

sticking TO your diet.. and having the CORRECT diet are two totally different ordeals, since diet by definition is what you eat on a regular basis

Yes, but diets are adjusted accordingly. You can have a certain way of eating in terms of the food choices you make, but obviously a diet to bulk is different than a diet to cut.

I'm on a cutting diet right now, and my preferred choice is to lower my carbs. I have found that's the easiest way for me to truly adhere to a cutting diet. I know some guys prefer a high protein/moderate carb/very low fat approach, but I'm doing more of a Keto diet. However, I can truly have advice on how to improve this cutting diet.

I usually eat the following:

Meal 1:


-6 egg whites (I'm eating the whole eggs as of late since I"m on a keto)
-1 or 2 slices of ham
-1 slice of low carb bread (it has 6g of carbs/1.5g of fiber)
-1 cup of cofee with Glutamine, splenda and Cremora

Training---Volume training (1 hour)

PWO Shake--48g of Whey Protein

Meal 2:

1 packet of Almonds (about 13g of protein and a good amount of good fats)

Meal 3:
2 pieces of either Chicken Breast, Lean Steak, Fish, etc.
1/2 cup of Veggies

Meal 4:

I have to eat this one honestly at a rest. or fast food, but I make the best choice available. Usually a salad (lettuce, tomatoes) with a big protein source. Fats can me from very high to moderate depending on the place.

Meal 5:

2 scoops of Casein Protein
1 spoon of Flax Seed Oil
10g of Glutamine

This is what I eat basically day in and out while cutting.

[taiboxa]

horrible diet.. and the protein from almonds are not ideal

[Bossman]

Everyone thinks they have the perfect diet and most times it's horrible.

[Smallnaturalbuilder]

I never said my diet was perfect, but I would like to know why it is "horrible". In fact, I don't think this diet is too far from the diet sticky in this forum.

I'm currently not using PWO carbs. This may be wrong but I read the Ketogenic Diet Book of Lyle McDonald, and there it says if you eat carbs pre workout, the insuling spike it produces may be enough to push aminos PWO whitout taking you out of ketosis.

Like I said, it would be more helpful if you guys can elaborate instead of just saying "We were right".

[Bossman]

We haven't been saying we're right, we've been telling you something must be amiss to account for your poor results. And diet is often one of the main factors. Training would be the next piece of the puzzle.

But start here:
http://forums.steroid.com/showthread.php?t=323516

It would help if when people list their diet, they break it down so we (more importantly you) know exactly how many grams of carbs/fat and protein you're getting.

[no1tou]

Yes, but diets are adjusted accordingly. You can have a certain way of eating in terms of the food choices you make, but obviously a diet to bulk is different than a diet to cut.

I'm on a cutting diet right now, and my preferred choice is to lower my carbs. I have found that's the easiest way for me to truly adhere to a cutting diet. I know some guys prefer a high protein/moderate carb/very low fat approach, but I'm doing more of a Keto diet. However, I can truly have advice on how to improve this cutting diet.

I usually eat the following:

Meal 1:


-6 egg whites (I'm eating the whole eggs as of late since I"m on a keto)
-1 or 2 slices of ham
-1 slice of low carb bread (it has 6g of carbs/1.5g of fiber)
-1 cup of cofee with Glutamine, splenda and Cremora

Training---Volume training (1 hour)

PWO Shake--48g of Whey Protein

Meal 2:

1 packet of Almonds (about 13g of protein and a good amount of good fats)

Meal 3:
2 pieces of either Chicken Breast, Lean Steak, Fish, etc.
1/2 cup of Veggies

Meal 4:

I have to eat this one honestly at a rest. or fast food, but I make the best choice available. Usually a salad (lettuce, tomatoes) with a big protein source. Fats can me from very high to moderate depending on the place.

Meal 5:

2 scoops of Casein Protein
1 spoon of Flax Seed Oil
10g of Glutamine

This is what I eat basically day in and out while cutting.

You can't do "more of a keto diet". This is a big part of why your diet is "horrible". Not to mention your macros are way off. The amount of meals is bad, timing of meals I'm sure is bad, and the fast food option speaks for itself.

You are basically have 3 small meals and 2 shakes. You need to go to the diet section and get some serious help.

[Smallnaturalbuilder]

We haven't been saying we're right, we've been telling you something must be amiss to account for your poor results. And diet is often one of the main factors. Training would be the next piece of the puzzle.

But start here:
http://forums.steroid.com/showthread.php?t=323516

It would help if when people list their diet, they break it down so we (more importantly you) know exactly how many grams of carbs/fat and protein you're getting.

Thanks for the info, but I think you guys got carried away with my cycle history and deviated from the real and main topic of my thread. I'm not trying to pass here as a know it all, but I don't like to pass as a total retard anyway. I've been here since 2003. Trust me, I know my fair deal about nutrition and training, and currently am trying to solve the "horrible" diet puzzle.

You guys have not been able to specifically point out why my diet is horrible, specially when it is very close to a STICKY in this forum. I have seen threads of other people with lesser pics than mine and similar diets given mad props.

Anyway, we can always learn new things, but I am NOT TRYING to become a competitive bodybuilder. I do have a life, a work, and simply do my best to have the best nutrition I can. I do not have the time to eat 6 or 7 meals a day, and it has been proven in multiple studies that you actually don't need so much meals and the "timing" thing is a myth and done much more by "faith" by the bodybuilding community.

Like I said, it always look stupid when a small guy like me try to say something different to big guys, but let's be real here people. Most guys here have done a shitload of cycles and don't look that big neither.

Enough for the rant.....I just wanted to know if any of you had PAIN IN THE TESTES AND BIG DISCOMFORT IN THE GROIN AREA. But I guess that's simply too hard a question.

[Bossman]

No, this is what you asked after just 2 injects,

"I started the cycle last Wednesday (4 days ago) and have been feeling very weird. I haven't felt any increase in libido, but the contrary. I feel a very strange uneasy feeling on myself, and a mild discomfort in my testicle area."

We told you, you should not feel that so soon, it's in your head. It would be too soon on that cycle.

[Rabid Pit Bull]

You need to eat more. Seriously. That is a weak diet.

I second the 'its in your head' sentiment. It takes a couple weeks to feel much, even from fast acting compounds.

And not too be rude, but your cutting must not be working. Your body fat is too high. You have a gut. If you were doing a heavy bulk I could inderstand. You diet down to a flat stomach. After that, you actually CUT.

I feel you have other stuff going on in your life that is making you feel down, you are in denial and blaming the AAS. Even AAS won;t make you feel great if bad sh!t is happening in your life. Loosten up man.

Oh, and do some deadlifts and/or shrugs. Your traps are non existent.

[OH REALLY]

get off the potassium

[Smallnaturalbuilder]

You need to eat more. Seriously. That is a weak diet.

I second the 'its in your head' sentiment. It takes a couple weeks to feel much, even from fast acting compounds.

And not too be rude, but your cutting must not be working. Your body fat is too high. You have a gut. If you were doing a heavy bulk I could inderstand. You diet down to a flat stomach. After that, you actually CUT.

I feel you have other stuff going on in your life that is making you feel down, you are in denial and blaming the AAS. Even AAS won;t make you feel great if bad sh!t is happening in your life. Loosten up man.

Oh, and do some deadlifts and/or shrugs. Your traps are non existent.

It's not in my head. In fact, I'm gonna see a doc. Testicular pain and huge discomfort in groin area are not common and I never felt this way in my life. I'm talking about the testes issue, not the "bad feelings" issue. I feel OK as I'm writing this in terms of energy levels and mood right now.

I took my body fat measure today and it said 16%, of course, that is a lot. BUt, you need to understand that I have already dropped 10 pounds and went from 20% to this actual status. So, my cut IS working. I've been on this diet for only 6 weeks. I cannot expect to drop down much more considering that I am not using Clen, or Ephedrine for that matter.

And yes, my traps are non-existent, but I do have other good body parts. I've seen guys here with lesser physiques than mine given ridiculous props, so I don't get all the hostility.

[Smallnaturalbuilder]

get off the potassium

I'm interested. Why?

[Bossman]

It's not in my head. In fact, I'm gonna see a doc. Testicular pain and huge discomfort in groin area are not common and I never felt this way in my life. I'm talking about the testes issue, not the "bad feelings" issue. I feel OK as I'm writing this in terms of energy levels and mood right now.

I took my body fat measure today and it said 16%, of course, that is a lot. BUt, you need to understand that I have already dropped 10 pounds and went from 20% to this actual status. So, my cut IS working. I've been on this diet for only 6 weeks. I cannot expect to drop down much more considering that I am not using Clen, or Ephedrine for that matter.

And yes, my traps are non-existent, but I do have other good body parts. I've seen guys here with lesser physiques than mine given ridiculous props, so I don't get all the hostility.

You're kidding right? As a natural bodybuilder I dropped down to 5% without using clen or ephedrine. It takes a proper diet and hard work. There is not an easy way to do it with or without supps. You need to get this down first. Taking supps without having your diet or training in order will not yield the results you expect.

[Kiki]

Diet is horrible.

I think i'd also be having libido problems on a diet like that LOL

[Smallnaturalbuilder]

Diet is horrible.

I think i'd also be having libido problems on a diet like that LOL

So, from what I see, everybody likes jumping on the bandwagon here only to flame....I've been trying to be polite all along and all I get are flame responses and ZERO advice, and also being off topic.

As of now, I'm much more concerned about my balls than my physique.

[Smallnaturalbuilder]

You're kidding right? As a natural bodybuilder I dropped down to 5% without using clen or ephedrine. It takes a proper diet and hard work. There is not an easy way to do it with or without supps. You need to get this down first. Taking supps without having your diet or training in order will not yield the results you expect.

Let's put your competitive bodybuilding mind aside just for a minute. Are you telling me that a 10 pound decrease (mainly bodyfat) in 6 weeks is HORRIBLE? I can understand if you tell me: "Your diet can improve bro, I think is a bit weak". But from there, to saying it is horrible sounds really outrageous.

If I had a horrible diet, I don't think I would look half as I look today. I KNOW that I can improve my diet, and could use a little more help if some of you start by telling me which part of the macros are specially BAD.

My carbs are obviously very low for the reasons I expressed before. I like low carb diets, and you know that this is all a matter of preference. Now, I would like to know if I need to adjust the fats or up the protein.

I DON'T NEED FOR YOU TO LIST ME A DIET. I ONLY NEED A SINGLE ADVICE ON MACROS. If I thought I knew it all, I wouldn't be posting here. But I'm not here to just listen people flame, specially when I've been polite all along.

Anyway, as I said in my previous post, as of now I'm much more concerned about my balls than anything else, so I could really use much more feeback on the test pain/groin discomfort issue than anything else.

[NMacFar]

SMALLNATURALBUILDER,

The testicular discomfort you are feeling is your Natural Test shutting down. This is completely normal and also a good sign that your gear is real.

[Smallnaturalbuilder]

SMALLNATURALBUILDER,

The testicular discomfort you are feeling is your Natural Test shutting down. This is completely normal and also a good sign that your gear is real.

Thanks a lot for the reply. I was doing a search in the forum and it seems like this has happened to a couple of members here. It seems like HCG would help me out. WHat I would like to know if how much time does it take regularly for the pain to go off. I've been on cycle for a week and 2 days already and still feel the discomfort and mild pain.

My balls have not shrunk yet. Do you think HCG would help me to alleviate the pain?

[taiboxa]

NO hcg is suppressive as well it will not help w/ the pain

[shortybrolick]

im 23 yrs old , 5'5 202 lbs aprox 15% body fat .. Running just Test e as of now, 500mg a week.. My first time with AAS -- my question is hcg absolutely necessary for post cycle?