Guy in wheelchair about to inject testosterone for the first time.

[david14433]

Ok guys I am going to do a cycle. I know you all will tell me not to do it cause of my stats. I use a wheelchair to get around. I have lost a lot of muscle due to a medical condition that is similar to a wasting disease. The doctors have not pin pointed what the cause of it yet. I know If I can just regain some of am strength back it will allow me to eat more and thus allow me to gain more weight. I weigh 130 pounds about almost 6 foot, 27 years old and am weak and don't eat a lot because I have lost a lot of strength and mass. I know all you will think I am nuts. But I don't have an option right now. At this point I am going to wither on the computer if I don't get some strength and muscle. I know that the amount of Testosterone I want to use will seem like a waste to you. I just need to know if there is something terribly wrong with my cycle that will cause death or hospitalization. I don't care if you disagree with it. I just need to make sure I am not going to die. My quality of life stinks right now and even if there is a risk to doing this I am ready to take it. I am going to do the cycle unless you provide me with some evidence that I can die from it. You all say that you need to be healthy to do a cycle. Which is partially true. I have seen the studies with aids patients taking steroids and gaining weight. Or the story like this that gives me hope. http://www.anabolicsteroids.com/womenandsteroids.html I know these people are not me. But I am a man that is 27 years old man that should be at the peak of his performance. Remember I don't care about wasting money at this point. I will run the cycle anyway if I can't get any advice. So be understanding of my condition. I got my testosterone checked by the doc and he said my free testosterone was a little low. To me though that is a deficiency. Take that plus my real lack of muscle and strength and I am set up for disaster. I will lower my dose during my cycle if I feel I have to. I will be ordering my cycle this week, maybe tomorrow. I just need you to give me some input on if I should add maybe some HCG and a few other things. I want to use some Tongkat Ali instead though in place of HCG. Let me know if I can go without the HCG or if I really need it. Also Let me know if I should add some more Clomid. I really like alternative things like herbs any suggestions on that would be good. So this is the cycle I want to run. Thanks.

Testosterone Enanthate weeks 1-14 500 mg wk for 14 weeks

PCT:
Tongkat Ali weeks 10 - 18

Clomid week 17 - 300 mg day 1 as a frontload 250mg days 2-7
100mg days 8-21 50mg days 22-28

Nolva OR Tamoxifen 60mg days 1-7 40mg days 8-14 30mg days 15-21 20mg days 22-18

[Lavinco]

I understand your situation. You may also want to explore how IGF-1 may be more beneficial in your situation. Search the pubmed site for how IGF-1 and/or testosterone affected people in your situation.
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/sites/entrez

[Lavinco]

edit. not sure why my reply was posted twice.

[david14433]

I have already researched IGF-1 LR3. I will probably run that in my next cycle. If I live to then (half joke).

[Vitruvian-Man]

....

[Vitruvian-Man]

You should talk to your primary care physicians about this question bro.

Ask them if you're 'healthy' enough in their eyes to put exogenous testosterone in your body & to shut down your HPTA temporarily... They will be able to give you MUCH more information that is specifically tailored to yourself. They are medical professionals, and they know the human body/anatomy better then anyone here on steroid.com...

Also, you should really change your attitude man, reading your post just kinda pissed me off, you always stating "I'm going to do this regardless, yadda yadda.." honestly man it makes you sound like some teenage punk... just saying..

In any case, one issue that I would like to say is that I think your dosage of testosterone is WAY too much for some immobile. You will be gaining bloat + fat, and very little muscle in your situation. 500mg/wk would just be crazy IMO.. I would stick to just a replacement dosage (or just above it)..

-VM

[david14433]

You might be right about the dosage being too high I'll see. As far as the doc goes I have already talked to him and he thinks my condition is all in my head. I have some mental problem where I don't eat. I don't eat that much though cause I am weak and lost a lot of weight. As far as me sounding like a punk. I am sorry about that. Just I know that you all will quickly tell a lot of people that are not bodybuilding types and that they need to train more and eat more before doing steroids. I can't do that. But I know of people with wasting diseases that have and will benefit from testosterone.

[david14433]

What do you think if I do 250 to maybe 300 mg of testosterone a week instead of 500? Do you think I would get bloat then?

[Bloodsaw]

150 - 250 mg of test a week should be right in your ballpark( i would see how i reacted to 150 first ), but like Vitruvian has already said go see the Doc. first man

[david14433]

I can't even get an appointment to see a endocrinologist if my total testosterone is in the low normal rage. Which according to Dr E. Barry Gordon, MD a lot of the values for testosterone deficiency are wack and need to be up dated.

[Vitruvian-Man]

You might be right about the dosage being too high I'll see. As far as the doc goes I have already talked to him and he thinks my condition is all in my head. I have some mental problem where I don't eat. I don't eat that much though cause I am weak and lost a lot of weight. As far as me sounding like a punk. I am sorry about that. Just I know that you all will quickly tell a lot of people that are not bodybuilding types and that they need to train more and eat more before doing steroids. I can't do that. But I know of people with wasting diseases that have and will benefit from testosterone.

Not a problem bro...

Mental illness is a huge problem in my family/blood-line so I can definitely relate.

What do you think if I do 250 to maybe 300 mg of testosterone a week instead of 500? Do you think I would get bloat then?

even 300mg/wk would be quite a bit of testosterone imo..

if your doctor told you before that you numbers "were on the low side" or whatever he said, then you should see 'gains' you're looking for off 100 - 175mg/wk of testosterone.

Again... doctor is the best to talk to about this.

-VM

[david14433]

My doctor all ready said that he would not give me testosterone therapy. But that he would send me to an endocrinologist. I can't find and endocrinologist that can do that. Cause I am just low normal. Low normal for me though for someone that needs a therapeutic dose is not good.
Maybe what I will try is to start at 100 mg and work my way up gradually till I get some sides. Then just lower the dosage.

[david14433]

Just for the record. I do not have a mental condition. I eat as much as I possibly can in a day if I eat any more I can easily get indigestion. The root of that problem is that the food needs to have stronger muscles to push it along.

[david14433]

Well I'm going to bed (getting tired) I will be online tomorrow mourning though. Thanks for the input so far.

[forte]

Ok guys I am going to do a cycle. I know you all will tell me not to do it cause of my stats. I use a wheelchair to get around. I have lost a lot of muscle due to a medical condition that is similar to a wasting disease. The doctors have not pin pointed what the cause of it yet. I know If I can just regain some of am strength back it will allow me to eat more and thus allow me to gain more weight. I weigh 130 pounds about almost 6 foot, 27 years old and am weak and don't eat a lot because I have lost a lot of strength and mass. I know all you will think I am nuts. But I don't have an option right now. At this point I am going to wither on the computer if I don't get some strength and muscle. I know that the amount of Testosterone I want to use will seem like a waste to you. I just need to know if there is something terribly wrong with my cycle that will cause death or hospitalization. I don't care if you disagree with it. I just need to make sure I am not going to die. My quality of life stinks right now and even if there is a risk to doing this I am ready to take it. I am going to do the cycle unless you provide me with some evidence that I can die from it. You all say that you need to be healthy to do a cycle. Which is partially true. I have seen the studies with aids patients taking steroids and gaining weight. Or the story like this that gives me hope. http://www.anabolicsteroids.com/womenandsteroids.html I know these people are not me. But I am a man that is 27 years old man that should be at the peak of his performance. Remember I don't care about wasting money at this point. I will run the cycle anyway if I can't get any advice. So be understanding of my condition. I got my testosterone checked by the doc and he said my free testosterone was a little low. To me though that is a deficiency. Take that plus my real lack of muscle and strength and I am set up for disaster. I will lower my dose during my cycle if I feel I have to. I will be ordering my cycle this week, maybe tomorrow. I just need you to give me some input on if I should add maybe some HCG and a few other things. I want to use some Tongkat Ali instead though in place of HCG. Let me know if I can go without the HCG or if I really need it. Also Let me know if I should add some more Clomid. I really like alternative things like herbs any suggestions on that would be good. So this is the cycle I want to run. Thanks.

Testosterone Enanthate weeks 1-14 500 mg wk for 14 weeks

PCT:
Tongkat Ali weeks 10 - 18

Clomid week 17 - 300 mg day 1 as a frontload 250mg days 2-7
100mg days 8-21 50mg days 22-28

Nolva OR Tamoxifen 60mg days 1-7 40mg days 8-14 30mg days 15-21 20mg days 22-18

the pct that always worked for me:
Day 1 - Clomid 200mg + Nolvadex 40mg
Following 20 days - Clomid 50mg + Nolvadex 20mg
good luck bro!

[awesome1]

Just for the record. I do not have a mental condition. I eat as much as I possibly can in a day if I eat any more I can easily get indigestion. The root of that problem is that the food needs to have stronger muscles to push it along.

Im just gonna call this as I see it... you are looking for any way possible to justify using steroids. Saying things like you need stronger muscles so you can eat more is not logical. I think you under the impression that steroids will be a solution to many of your problems when in fact it may simply cause more. From reading your posts, it looks like you have excuse after excuse in each post which to leads to justification after justification to use steroids. I would really try to get honest with yourself. Dont mean to come across as rude trying to help.

[lovbyts]

My doctor all ready said that he would not give me testosterone therapy. But that he would send me to an endocrinologist. I can't find and endocrinologist that can do that. Cause I am just low normal. Low normal for me though for someone that needs a therapeutic dose is not good.
Maybe what I will try is to start at 100 mg and work my way up gradually till I get some sides. Then just lower the dosage.

100 mg would be to low, not even therapeutic/replacement dose. Go see the endo. You dont have to have LOW test for him to give it to you. They give it also for your situation, muscle wasting.

Dont be so quick to judge us. Most of us try to take every case as individual. Maybe you have bad experiences other places but i like to think this site is different.

Good luck with your appointment.

[david14433]

You bet I am justifying my interest in steroids. Because I know that this my only option right now. Just because my Doctor was not trained to give testosterone to someone like me should not stop me from getting the treatment that I need. Also I will probably be loosing my Medicaid insurance pretty soon. (long story) Look don't get me wrong. I have had a lot of tests done all mainly inconclusive. When I went to do a colonoscopy my intestines were so slow that I could not empty my colon and they could not even do the test. The gastroenterologist said my stomach was weak. He could see it. I had a cat scan done that showed nothing other than a backed up colon and a little bit smaller kidney then usual, nothing to be concerned about. I don't have cancer, and I feel I am out of options. I don't want to waste away debating whether I need one of the few things that is known to give you strength and muscle. Exactly what I need. It's a no brainer.

[Hazard]

Do I think using exogenous testosterone will kill you? no....

Here is what would worry me tho...... Your test levels are low now...... If you use exogenous hormones to bring those levels up...... then there will be a big drop off when you come off. PCT's are great..... but there is going to be a time period where your levels are in the dirt. Your going to feel depressed and weak..... not to mention if you felt like you were withering away with the levels you have now..... what will you feel like when your test levels are next to nothing.

Now lets say you get passed that initial start of PCT and your test levels start returning. What are you going to do if they are even lower than they were before you started the cycle?

Just some food for thought man..... either way it's your choice. I'm not trying to persuade you either way.....

~Haz~

[david14433]

I have thought about that. I have heard that Igf-1 can make new Leydig cells and help them mature. Igf-1 can also help you start making your own testosterone. I believe it does this at the most fundamental level. Also I heard Tongkat Ali can help this. I have not taken anything to boost natural testosterone besides vitamin D A and zinc. I think If I take something like clomid and nolv I will respond very well like the first time you do steroids you are very responsive.

[cjw2021]

If you are 27 and in a wheelchair with a wasting disease, the best thing that you could possibly do is get injection 200mg/nl test cypionate asap. Try it once and see if you notice any changes in your immune disorder. A third of all men with auto immune conditions have low testosterone. Do not listen to these wankers trying to give you a guilt trip for wanting roids. You have no choice. I'd certainly recommend more than just tongkat ali for pct though if you do notice improvement and continue with the injections.

[david14433]

Thanks for your support. I do have a new thread going on this topic at http://forums.steroid.com/showthread.php?t=427021

[Bonaparte]

I don't see how anyone could object to someone with any sort of wasting disease using AAS to improve their quality of life...seeing as how you are exactly the sort of case that they were designed for. That would be so retarded and hypocritical.
Like others have said, go to your doc and try get on some sort of TRT regimen. It would be safer, possibly cheaper (if you have good insurance), and you wouldn't risk going to jail for trying to maintain a normal bodyweight. Cycling is for guys who are healthy and trying to get bigger without doing permanent damage to their HPTA. You need this stuff for life.

[david14433]

I appreciate your concern about my HTPA. Personally I think I should be more concerned about hypogonadism. Which I do address this concern in my up-dated post at.
http://forums.steroid.com/showthread.php?t=427021
Thanks for your support.

[Bonaparte]

I appreciate your concern about my HTPA. Personally I think I should be more concerned about hypogonadism. Which I do address this concern in my up-dated post at.
http://forums.steroid.com/showthread.php?t=427021
Thanks for your support.

The "T" in HPTA stands for "testicular". Hypothalamic-Pituitary-Testicular Axis.

If I were in your place, I would just go ahead and get my sperm cryogenically frozen at a sperm bank (if you want to have kids later), then get on TRT for life, or whatever drug combo your doc recommends.

[dosXX]

sorry to hear about your current situation if you think that using T will help improve your quality of life then by all mean do so however IMHO to do this correctly and safely you MUST see a doctor or specialist that can help monitor your progress and if your current doctor is not helpful just dump his arrogant ass and find someone who would listen and are willing to help you I know that this task will be difficult but in the end it'll pay off. And as for your dose as most people in here are recommending to start with a low dose. Good luck bro hope you find your happiness.

[david14433]

Thanks for your support. You know I don't think my Doctor is arrogant. I think he is arrogant of his ignorance.
I am waiting to find out if I will still be eligible for medicaid (hopefully find out soon). If I get approved I will give my Doctor one last chance to see if he will help me. I can't guarantee that I can wait on my Doctor or insurance to go though, I'll see.