Question about my possible first cycle

**Stra-vagancia** · 04-20-2010, 09:33 PM

Hi!!, first of all I'm new to the forum and I've been researching AAS for a few weeks now. Me and two of my friends have been considering taking them for a while now, but only "safe" ones on low dosages (Ex. Deca 200mg/week...400mg/week tops).

I've seen that Deca Durabolin as a good choice, but the side effect of suppressing my own test worries me a lot. I'm 24 at the moment, my friends are 27 and 28, prolly they are more fit to use them, but still I'm considering it. I've been training for a year, and started supplementing like 2 months ago and I'm into a more serious training program. So far I've lost 95lbs, I dont know my %BF unfortunately, I'm 185lbs and 5'8". Additionally, a friend of ours used Deca alone and didn't have any side effects, except small balls for a while, he even got his wife pregnant so apparently he wasn't affected, the only info I know is he started with 400mg the 1st week.

Other AAS I've considered is the Primo (oral or injected) Deca cycle, or EQ.

The reason I've started the thread is to become more informed than I am right now, cause internet websites have a limit of info that I can't get from people directly (which have experienced with steroids ). In summary:

1- I know Primo exists in two forms, which one is better for stacking with Deca? IF it's worth it...

2- I know some people recommend Test with Deca, but something about Test make me feel a little insecure about "maintaining" normal levels, 'cause Free test in the blood will still be lower than any kind of dosage that you can inject yourself with. Can I still take Deca like say 200mg/week and not having side effects (like HPTA suppressing, etc.)?

3-I read at other websites that Equipoise is used as a good substitute for Deca, is it worth it? (this AAS is the one I've researched less)

4- This last question may be a little difficult to answer, but here it goes:
I'm asthmatic, would any kind of AAS affect it? I know Nolvadex for PCT has been found to exacerbate some asthma symptoms, will Clomid be enough for PCT?

I will greatly appreciate any kind of input, be it good or bad. I'll feel grateful. Hopefully you can help me before making any decision. Thanks :-)

**breakbones** · 04-20-2010, 10:02 PM

First of all, "only Deca cycle ," NOT GOOD,

For a first cycle, Test e 500 a week for 12weeks

**Stra-vagancia** · 04-20-2010, 10:15 PM

Well I've read a lot about only Deca cycle, and so far I've seen a mixed bag of comments between, no sides and bad side effects. I researched about it and I know that even 100mg can shut down your test to shit...but oh well seeing that a friend didn't have any sides can make you think about taking it, Deca being so "safe" within the AAS spectrum.

I thought about Primo due to the fact of not being c17 alpha alkylated, so it's not hepatotoxic.

EQ I only thought about it since I read it's a good replacement for Deca.

Test...well until someone tells me or gives me evidence on how Test is not as detrimental to natural hormone production as Deca, I'm not considering it.

**breakbones** · 04-20-2010, 10:29 PM

So tell me, are you and your friends body the same, do you guys react the same to meds or anything? Do you guys share underwear together.

It may work on him as it won't with you.

Like that old saying, if your friend jumped off a bridge would you. NO

Only Deca cycles will shut you down HaRD.

You need to run Test with it; however, even for a beginner, Test only cycle is what's best

**Stra-vagancia** · 04-20-2010, 10:36 PM

Well of course out bodies are not the same, I just pointed that fact out about Deca not shutting him down. Did you experiment with Test/Deca cycle?

**Neevor** · 04-21-2010, 11:43 AM

Ive done a deca alone cycle, a test alone cycle and a cycle with both. Breakbones has it right. You need to just start with the Test only cycle. It will give you a good gauge for how your body will react to gear. You run too many drugs and you wont know what is causing what effects in your body. Was reading a great post yesterday about a very complex cycle and the guy was a veteran. He had diareah the first 2 weeks and took him that long to figure out why. And I stress this guy was a veteran so he had a really good grasp on what these things did to his body. You wanna have an alergic reaction in the middle of your cycle or start having weird sides and not know whats doin it to you?

First cycle should always be just Test so you can get your bearings. If you really cant stand not to run just one then throw 4 weeks of Dbol at 30mg ED on the begining. BTW, primo sucks IMHO. Forget about it till you have more knowledge.

**Neevor** · 04-21-2010, 01:40 PM

Looking at your first post again its very obvious that you need to do more research in general before you do anything. A lot of people who run Deca report having to run PCT for almost twice as long as with Test because it takes so long to recover from. Its the longest staying steroid thats commonly used out there. You can show positive for it on a drug test after over a year (by comparison I believe test is gone after 6 months at the very longest and I've come up clean after three months before).

Please, treat this like you're getting a degree in it and do your homework cause if you fail the exam its not a degree you wont get, its your body you'll mess up for a really long time.

**Stra-vagancia** · 04-21-2010, 03:57 PM

Thanks for your wonderful input about this. I consider myself very knowledgeable on science (not bragging about it) and I actually enjoy researching all of this. But since you've been so cooperative, if you wish, can you clear me up why in a deca cycle, test is needed (I know it helps to maintain your test levels) but isn't test suppresive to the HPTA also? I've tried to look and look everywhere for my answer and still don't know why.

My friend is thinking of doing a cycle like this one: 200mg/week of deca for 8 weeks then the last 2 weeks increase it to 300mg. He was thinking of adding only 100mg of test each week, but he wasn't sure due to the fact that he still thinks Test will **** him up more than Deca, especially both combined. Hopefully you can clear this up. Thanks everyone again.

**Neevor** · 04-21-2010, 04:55 PM

There is a profile on Steroid .com on Deca . Read that first. it explains natural testosteron supression a little and has a graph. Unfortunately I was not able to locate the actual study that the information was pulled from in the references. I spent about 10 minutes looking for the research on www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov but couldnt find anything there either. I know it exists though. You're gonna have to keep looking.

You're friend is obviously not an authority. See what happens to him doing that shit. Test is the basis for all cycles unless you're (not you but a person in general) a vag and go with an all oral cycle.

Let me start this over. You've been training for a year right? You haven't been doing it long enough to use roids. You're not going to get a lot of benefit from them and you're gonna end up throwing away your money. Thats great that you've lost 95 lbs. Seriously. Nice work. But now try to ad 20lbs of muscle in the next year. Are you going to the gym 6 days a week? Are you eating 6 times a day and keeping a journal on what you are eating each meal? Keeping a journal on how much weight you lift when? These are all things that you need to be proficient at before you're gonna get any real results from juicin.

My recommendation is that you get to 12% bodyfat and then gain 20lbs of muscle. Have a trainer at your gym check your body fat for you. and then keep track of your progress by way of the methods I mentioned. Read Arnolds Encyclopedia 2 or 3 times though and when you know all of that read A Scientific Approach to Bodybuilding a couple times. In the mean time, stay on this forum and read what people say, esspecially the vets, in another year you'll have gained a lot of skills through reading and working out.

When I first started I got into it because of a dude just like your friends. Uneducated and just got all his info from what his other stupid meat head friends did. You know what he has to show for all his money spent on roids while I was learning and workin my ass off? Nothing, hes still the same size except hes down a few thousand bucks. We still talk but I dont even try to give him advice on roids. He's been scammed twice and stopped mid cycle a couple times because he lacked the knowledge to know why he was having side effects he did. He also lacked the understanding in how to work out and eat on roids. I'm 55lbs heavier than when I started 5 years ago and 30 of that came in the first two years without juicin. Hes just 5 years older and the same size.

Don't listen to those dopes. Do your research. Work hard. Have patience. You'll be glad you did. Sorry, that's not what I wanted to hear either when I started but its still good advice.

**Bossman** · 04-21-2010, 05:00 PM

Originally Posted by Stra-vagancia

Thanks for your wonderful input about this. I consider myself very knowledgeable on science (not bragging about it) and I actually enjoy researching all of this. But since you've been so cooperative, if you wish, can you clear me up why in a deca cycle, test is needed (I know it helps to maintain your test levels) but isn't test suppresive to the HPTA also? I've tried to look and look everywhere for my answer and still don't know why.

My friend is thinking of doing a cycle like this one: 200mg/week of deca for 8 weeks then the last 2 weeks increase it to 300mg. He was thinking of adding only 100mg of test each week, but he wasn't sure due to the fact that he still thinks Test will **** him up more than Deca, especially both combined. Hopefully you can clear this up. Thanks everyone again.

By the questions you're asking, I can tell you've done very little research. Start by reading the stickies at the top of this forum page. Spend some time (a year would be a good start, this will also give you more time to perfect your training and diet) reading the various posts and answers from experienced members. Then if you still haven't reached your goals, think hard about using AAS as a means to take your development further.

**Stra-vagancia** · 04-21-2010, 09:34 PM

Originally Posted by Neevor

There is a profile on Steroid .com on Deca . Read that first. it explains natural testosteron supression a little and has a graph. Unfortunately I was not able to locate the actual study that the information was pulled from in the references. I spent about 10 minutes looking for the research on www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov but couldnt find anything there either. I know it exists though. You're gonna have to keep looking.

You're friend is obviously not an authority. See what happens to him doing that shit. Test is the basis for all cycles unless you're (not you but a person in general) a vag and go with an all oral cycle.

Let me start this over. You've been training for a year right? You haven't been doing it long enough to use roids. You're not going to get a lot of benefit from them and you're gonna end up throwing away your money. Thats great that you've lost 95 lbs. Seriously. Nice work. But now try to ad 20lbs of muscle in the next year. Are you going to the gym 6 days a week? Are you eating 6 times a day and keeping a journal on what you are eating each meal? Keeping a journal on how much weight you lift when? These are all things that you need to be proficient at before you're gonna get any real results from juicin.

My recommendation is that you get to 12% bodyfat and then gain 20lbs of muscle. Have a trainer at your gym check your body fat for you. and then keep track of your progress by way of the methods I mentioned. Read Arnolds Encyclopedia 2 or 3 times though and when you know all of that read A Scientific Approach to Bodybuilding a couple times. In the mean time, stay on this forum and read what people say, esspecially the vets, in another year you'll have gained a lot of skills through reading and working out.

When I first started I got into it because of a dude just like your friends. Uneducated and just got all his info from what his other stupid meat head friends did. You know what he has to show for all his money spent on roids while I was learning and workin my ass off? Nothing, hes still the same size except hes down a few thousand bucks. We still talk but I dont even try to give him advice on roids. He's been scammed twice and stopped mid cycle a couple times because he lacked the knowledge to know why he was having side effects he did. He also lacked the understanding in how to work out and eat on roids. I'm 55lbs heavier than when I started 5 years ago and 30 of that came in the first two years without juicin. Hes just 5 years older and the same size.

Don't listen to those dopes. Do your research. Work hard. Have patience. You'll be glad you did. Sorry, that's not what I wanted to hear either when I started but its still good advice.

I actually read that profile, I've read it like 10 times to be more exact. I understand the responsibility, dedication and disciple one must have with AAS. I'm actually leaning more to wait a few months or a year to see what gains I can achieve on my own, with weight training, supplements and good nutrition.

In the last year I've dedicated myself to elaborate a proper nutrition program. I eat 5-6 meals a day, I do not exceed 400 calories per meal (sometimes less, due to the fact that I'm still lowering body fat). My macronutrient ratios currently are: 50% carbs, 15% fat and 35% protein. Sometimes I lower my carbs to 20-25% if I want to push the fat loss a little bit more.

My training consists of two day splits mostly, classic 3 set exercises within the 8-12 rep range for all major muscle groups and minor. And cardio 2-3 times a week. I'm try to keep a pinpoint journal of my nutrition and training. I've seen pretty good gains in the last 3 months with just protein shakes, Omega 3 and some NO supplements, so I must think I'm doing something right. I've lost around 6-7lbs after I started this training 3 months ago, but I feel my muscles bigger and hardened, probably I've achieved some kind of muscle gain with minimal fat loss...

Unfortunately I have no way to measure my BF%, I still think I'm not below 20% and that's the biggest reason why I'm not sold completely on steroid use as of now, due to the more prolonged or increased effects that you could have. I also been reading Arnolds Encyclopedia, of course I've not finish it, I also have The Tom Venuto Burn the Fat, feed the muscle book and also have the Anabolics 2009 book on hand, and I have started reading it little by little. The other book you mentioned I'll check it out.

The cycle I mentioned was a sample we thought about a few weeks ago, besides running Deca only, but as I said a friend of mine did use it and didn't even get a proper PCT (he used Novedex XT, not Nolvadex ), didn't have any sides and even got his wife pregnant...how he did that? I don't know...it's surprising nonetheless, due to nandrolone being so suppressive even with 100mg. But, oh well...I'll see what results they have and build my own knowledge from there. Hopefully in the future I'll get better gains haha

And, Neevor I deeply appreciate your time to give me those advices, trust me I'll take them. But soon enough I'll try steroids when of course I've gather more knowledge and achieved a better physique to rip most of the benefits out of the steroids. Any additional input will be appreciated, thanks all for taking your time.

**AlphaGenetics** · 04-21-2010, 09:53 PM

take test only for your first cycle. youll see better gains from that than decca alone with out the horrible sides you will get. decca alone will make it so you cant get a hard on, its called decca dick. ask your friend if his pee pee works. hope this helps. gl

**Stra-vagancia** · 04-22-2010, 07:47 AM

^ I know everyhting about the dreaded deca dick, for now I won't do roids, but just to clear it up, my friend did not have any sides in a deca only cycle, his pee pee did work cause as I said...he got his wife pregnant while on cycle.

**Solomon** · 04-22-2010, 07:58 AM

Take the repeated advice mate. Just because you can still have babies doesn't mean your body isn't shutting down its own HPTA.

**Neevor** · 04-22-2010, 12:18 PM

Sounds like you are headed in the right direction

**AlphaMaleDawg** · 04-22-2010, 12:49 PM

major props to you stra-vagancia. You seem to be well educated on diet and you said it yourself. Get your bf even lower, gain some muscle naturally, then come back here after you have done all of that and ask us about a test only cycle. good luck to you