Deca and ligaments/tendons

[ShadetreeJones]

Hey guys hope everyone one is doing well. Quick question, I started back doing some fight training about 2 months ago after an injury and I'm always sore. I've used Deca in the past for building muscle but my question is this: In small doses can Deca strengthen the ligaments and tendons or is it JUST a muscle building compound? I was planning on using 250mg every 10 days just to give a little strength boost and make the joints feel a little better while training. My g/f and I have lived together for 3 years so she won't notice if I get shut down a little and I don't want to get any bigger or hold any water.

[ShadetreeJones]

Another part to original question is would it just be better to use HGH instead? Does HGH heal the little bumps and bruises that Deca can't? Thanks again for your input.

[Bossman]

Deca is good, but running it without test would be counterproductive IMO for fighting (Im no fighter). GH would be very beneficial if you can afford it. Do you fight competitively?

[breakbones]

Deca is good, but running it without test would be counterproductive IMO for fighting (Im no fighter). GH would be very beneficial if you can afford it. Do you fight competitively?

Agreed

[ShadetreeJones]

Deca is good, but running it without test would be counterproductive IMO for fighting (Im no fighter). GH would be very beneficial if you can afford it. Do you fight competitively?

How come counterproductive?? I've done 3 Muay Thai smokers and 1 submission grappling tourney. I really just want to give some relief to my joints and maybe strengthen the binders. Like I said I know Deca is great for muscle building and brings relief to creaky joints but does it actually strengthen the tendons and ligaments?

[dec11]

How come counterproductive?? I've done 3 Muay Thai smokers and 1 submission grappling tourney. I really just want to give some relief to my joints and maybe strengthen the binders. Like I said I know Deca is great for muscle building and brings relief to creaky joints but does it actually strengthen the tendons and ligaments?

no, it promotes water retention in the joints (helps to lubricate) which will subside eventually after discontinuing the compound, i think HGH is what you should be looking at

[ShadetreeJones]

no, it promotes water retention in the joints (helps to lubricate) which will subside eventually after discontinuing the compound, i think HGH is what you should be looking at

That's kind of what I figured. I was hopeful that Deca in smaller amounts could help strengthen the binders as well as the muscles.

[Half-Life 6]

EQ/Deca with little test would help with joints

[taiboxa]

EQ/Deca with little test would help with joints

why EQ?.. eq never did anything for my joints and if your referring to a couple of articles that floated around collegen synthesis then i would put your stock in another batch.. i have ran EQ/Deca for almost a year straight for joints.. n' i can honestly say there is nothing special about EQ .. now nandrolone can be quite beneficial imo as it helps w/ synovial fluid/water retention.. but EQ just raises your platelet count n' blood pressure n' thats about all it does

[ShadetreeJones]

why EQ?.. eq never did anything for my joints and if your referring to a couple of articles that floated around collegen synthesis then i would put your stock in another batch.. i have ran EQ/Deca for almost a year straight for joints.. n' i can honestly say there is nothing special about EQ .. now nandrolone can be quite beneficial imo as it helps w/ synovial fluid/water retention.. but EQ just raises your platelet count n' blood pressure n' thats about all it does

Hey I appreciate you commenting in my thread. I know you're a long time and respected member on these boards. With a name like "Taiboxa" I would assume you've worked the pads a little. Have you ever rolled or grappled? What would you recommend for just your typical training bumps some binder soreness?

[taiboxa]

low dose of test/deca .. maybe a 200/200/wk dosing regimen n' yeah i have done alot of groundwork but stand up is my forte'

[Neevor]

If you could find Nandrolone with a Phenylpropionate ester (known as Durabolin ) that would probably be best dude. You'd get the benefits of tendon lube and repair without the water retention. Its known for lean gains as opposed to the massive bulk of Deca . Just a thought.

[dec11]

If you could find Nandrolone with a Phenylpropionate ester (known as Durabolin) that would probably be best dude. You'd get the benefits of tendon lube and repair without the water retention. Its known for lean gains as opposed to the massive bulk of Deca. Just a thought.

it wont repair tendons

[ShadetreeJones]

If you could find Nandrolone with a Phenylpropionate ester (known as Durabolin) that would probably be best dude. You'd get the benefits of tendon lube and repair without the water retention. Its known for lean gains as opposed to the massive bulk of Deca. Just a thought.

I've got three bottles of Decabol by BD. Hope I'm allowed to be that specific. I believe it's Deca Durabolin . And I would receive some tendon healing properties from the Deca ? That was my main hope when I started this thread, that my joints and binders would recover faster just as the muscles do when on gear.

[Neevor]

it wont repair tendons

In that it won't send little joint repair construction men to your joints and fix them over a contractually obligatory period. But studies show Nandralone increases collagen circulation which is the protein associated with connective tissues like joints.

Just one example I found by googling
1990 Nov; 39(11):1167-9

Thats what I meant by tendon repair

[ShadetreeJones]

In that it won't send little joint repair construction men to your joints and fix them over a contractually obligatory period. But studies show Nandralone increases collagen circulation which is the protein associated with connective tissues like joints.

Just one example I found by googling
1990 Nov; 39(11):1167-9

Thats what I meant by tendon repair

Now that's what the **** I'm talking about. So it DOES repair tendons?? That's huge.

[RoadToRecovery]

In that it won't send little joint repair construction men to your joints and fix them over a contractually obligatory period. But studies show Nandralone increases collagen circulation which is the protein associated with connective tissues like joints.

Just one example I found by googling
1990 Nov; 39(11):1167-9

Thats what I meant by tendon repair

And this is what I call a rebuttal - nice job neevor.

Yes deca combats and cures tendinitis. I took 400 mg of deca only for 10 wks and it completely cured my tendinitis in my forearms 6 yrs ago. Havent had an issue since.

[RoadToRecovery]

Now that's what the **** I'm talking about. So it DOES repair tendons?? That's huge.

In my own personal experience, yes.

[RoadToRecovery]

it wont repair tendons

Im going to have to beg to differ.

[amcon]

im my experence : deca is good for what your looking for - but dont expect maricles...

the deca will add muscle/bulk, it may even bump u up a weight class or make is very hard to make weight(all depending on you bf now)

hgh is a great drug for what your looking for

anavar might also be a good thought - what you really need is recovery, time off from fighting to let you body fully recover...

keep us up to date with what your doing and how it works

[cherrydrpepper]

Hey guys hope everyone one is doing well. Quick question, I started back doing some fight training about 2 months ago after an injury and I'm always sore. I've used Deca in the past for building muscle but my question is this: In small doses can Deca strengthen the ligaments and tendons or is it JUST a muscle building compound? I was planning on using 250mg every 10 days just to give a little strength boost and make the joints feel a little better while training. My g/f and I have lived together for 3 years so she won't notice if I get shut down a little and I don't want to get any bigger or hold any water.

I suffer from an old rotator cuff injury and tendenitis in one elbow. I do various stretches and exercises with a band before I lift. The effect is immediate in the short term for relieving pain. Long term I can feel my shoulder getting stronger and giving me less trouble during various lifts. I believe HGH would probably do something. I am running test e and would love to tell you its helping but honestly I don't think it is doing anything. My personal advice is stop pretending that the injuries or tweaks are just part of the game and find an exercise that will strengthen that area of the body. Sometimes the best thing you can do is give that body part a week or more of rest. If you really care about doing something for this you will have to think outside the box. When I walk into the gym and I start loosening up you can see a few guys giving me that look like wtf are you doing. You really need to set your ego aside and do what the situation requires. I started out by going on google and typing "rotator cuff exercises" and things like that to find what I needed. You can go on youtube and type "football rehab" or "football rehabilitation"; just take a few hours you are going to be amazed what is out there if you have the work ethic to take care of your body.

[Neevor]

I suffer from an old rotator cuff injury and tendenitis in one elbow. (cut for brevity) just take a few hours you are going to be amazed what is out there if you have the work ethic to take care of your body.

Good points! Was sort of assuming Shadow was doing this. You are icing the tendons and drinking lots of water along with stretches and such right Shadow? Cause the first thing I do when I injure some connective tissue is ice it 20 mins on 20 mins off a couple times a day.

[Neevor]

nice job neevor.

Thanks homey

[taiboxa]

In my own personal experience, yes.

yeah but EQ doesnt and should be removed from the catagory of AAS and placed a new genre of .. (insert witty name for catagory since its too early for me to think)

[dec11]

Im going to have to beg to differ.

i have knee and elbow probs which disappear when using deca , always comes back though afta discontinuing. if deca did the repair job i think it would be used alot more widely for that purpose

[dec11]

In that it won't send little joint repair construction men to your joints and fix them over a contractually obligatory period. But studies show Nandralone increases collagen circulation which is the protein associated with connective tissues like joints.

Just one example I found by googling
1990 Nov; 39(11):1167-9

Thats what I meant by tendon repair

duh, and here was me thinking thts how it worked

[Bossman]

My training partner tore 3 upper pec tendons from the bone while inclining on bench with 5 plates. The surgeon told him that if he had been running deca , it may not have happened. The surgeon told him deca was the only steroid proven to strengthen and repair connective tissue. After surgery he ran maintenance doses of test and deca and he was back lifting 6 weeks later (not at full strength).

[bdodge2]

this is taken from another site....not my article but I found it interesting on EQ

While injecting test increases protein synthesis by roughly 50 times, depending on dose and time, most bodybuilders forget that it will reduce collagen synthesis by more than 50% -- more like 80%, giving you the collagen synthesis rate of a senior citizen. Since collagen makes up tendons, bros are very prone to injury if they continue to lift very heavy, unless they cycle off T and let their collagen synthesis get back to normal. It's like having the skeletal muscle of a gorilla with the tendons of a very old man.

Winstrol increases collagen synthesis. It will give you bigger tendons. However, your body compensates for this by making them more brittle, weaker, and more prone to injury. I can't tell you how many bros work out anaerobically and become injured while on winstrol. Guys who lift in the 1-5 rep range while on winstrol, to baseball players who sprint all out from a stationary position -- winstrol should be the LAST drug they choose. Most of them like winstrol because they don't get the weight gain from it but it is very detrimental to bros who train for any sport anaerobically. Tendons tear easily on it.

Also, the drugs I mention increase collagen synthesis while also increasing collagen cross-linking integrity, making for a much stronger tendon.

Winstrol, on the other hand, will dramatically increase collagen syn, but ironically it decreases collagen cross-linking integrity, thus making a much weaker tendon.

You can plan a cycle of AAS which will increase collagen synthesis and skeletal muscle growth at the same time. The key is the drug(s) you choose.

Deca , Equipoise , Anavar , and Primobolan will ALL increase skeletal muscle while at the same time dramatically increase collagen syn and bone mass and density, leaving you with a substantially reduced chance of becoming injured than if you choose to use AAS like sus, cyp, or enth.

While testosterone will increase bone mass and density, even at supra-physiological levels, the result is weaker tendons due to inhibition of collagen syn.

To plan a cycle where the goal is to increase skeletal muscle mass/strength while at the same time increase joint/tendon/ligament strength, enough to keep up with the dramatic increase in skeletal muscle, you must choose drugs like Eq, Deca, Anavar, or Primo as the base of your cycle. Testosterone and its esters can be added to your cycle to keep levels within a 'normal' physiological range (ie, 100-200 mg/wk) but must not go above this. Since drugs like eq, deca, anavar and primo will reduce endogenous, natural levels of test, these levels may be maintained with exogenous test in the 100-200 mg/wk range. Test at this dose will not inhibit collagen syn, but paradoxically, will help increase it. It is when exogenous testosterone is used > 200 mg/wk that collagen syn is inhibited.

Deca @ 3 mg/kg a week(about 270 mg/wk for a 200 lb male) will increase procollagen III levels by 270% by week 2. Procollagen III is a primary indicator used to determine the rate of collagen syn. As you can see, deca is a very good drug at giving you everything you want -- an increase in collagen syn, an increase in skeletal muscle, and increases in bone mass and density. The one thing it does not give you is wood.

Primobolan, @ 5 mg/kg, will increase collagen synthesis by roughly 180% -- less than deca and equipoise but still substantial.

Equipoise @ 3 mg/kg will increase procollagen III by approximately 340% -- slightly better than deca.

Oxandrolone has over a hundred studies documenting its effectiveness at treating patients needing rapid increases in collagen syn to enhance healing.

These drugs have longer half-lives than most other AAS, so this should be considered when timing your post cycle clomid use. Here they are:

Deca: 15 days Equipoise: 14 days Primobolan: 10.5 days

Anavar has a half-life of only 8 hours so it should not pose a problem.

GH is probably the most remarkable drug at increasing collagen synthesis. It increases collagen syn in a dose dependant manner -- the more you use, the more you will increase collagen syn. It has also demonstrated this ability in short and long term studies. From what I've read, hGH at 6 iu/day increased the collagen deposition rate by around 250% in damaged collagen structures. This result indicates that the increased biomechanical strength of wounds to collagen structures treated with biosynthetic human growth hormone was produced by an increased deposition of collagen in the collagen structures.

Eq, primo, anavar, and deca are all good -- they increase several biomakers of collagen syn -- ie, type III, II, I, procollagen markers. GH just seems to do so most dramatically.

Use of any of these drugs @ supra-physiological levels with a maintenance dose of test will increase collagen syn while at the same time increase skeletal muscle mass. Skeletal muscle mass gains will not be as dramatic as with large testosterone doses but you have to weigh the risk/reward basis for yourself. Also, these drugs do not satisfy the libido like testosterone, but that is not the point of this thread. It is only to demonstrate that you can increase skeletal muscle and collagen syn at the same time with certain AAS -- the decision is up to you.

[RoadToRecovery]

yeah but EQ doesnt and should be removed from the catagory of AAS and placed a new genre of .. (insert witty name for catagory since its too early for me to think)

Im just talking about Nandralone.

[Neevor]

duh, and here was me thinking thts how it worked

[Neevor]

this is taken from another site....not my article but I found it interesting on EQ (cut for brevity)

F YEAH! Now that is what I'm talkin about. This is very interesting.

No idea who wrote it or what credibility they have tho so in the future if you would just please site the reference so we can all check it out (I know I can copy and paste in google and it will probably find it) that would be great.

[dec11]

My training partner tore 3 upper pec tendons from the bone while inclining on bench with 5 plates. The surgeon told him that if he had been running deca, it may not have happened. The surgeon told him deca was the only steroid proven to strengthen and repair connective tissue. After surgery he ran maintenance doses of test and deca and he was back lifting 6 weeks later (not at full strength).

eah? fair enuf, interesting that it has worked for some

[Bossman]

There are some medical studies that have been done on deca . Im not sure on the others though. I spent some time searching in the past, but don't have them bookmarked.

[taiboxa]

this is taken from another site....not my article but I found it interesting on EQ

While injecting test increases protein synthesis by roughly 50 times, depending on dose and time, most bodybuilders forget that it will reduce collagen synthesis by more than 50% -- more like 80%, giving you the collagen synthesis rate of a senior citizen. Since collagen makes up tendons, bros are very prone to injury if they continue to lift very heavy, unless they cycle off T and let their collagen synthesis get back to normal. It's like having the skeletal muscle of a gorilla with the tendons of a very old man.

Winstrol increases collagen synthesis. It will give you bigger tendons. However, your body compensates for this by making them more brittle, weaker, and more prone to injury. I can't tell you how many bros work out anaerobically and become injured while on winstrol. Guys who lift in the 1-5 rep range while on winstrol, to baseball players who sprint all out from a stationary position -- winstrol should be the LAST drug they choose. Most of them like winstrol because they don't get the weight gain from it but it is very detrimental to bros who train for any sport anaerobically. Tendons tear easily on it.

Also, the drugs I mention increase collagen synthesis while also increasing collagen cross-linking integrity, making for a much stronger tendon.

Winstrol, on the other hand, will dramatically increase collagen syn, but ironically it decreases collagen cross-linking integrity, thus making a much weaker tendon.

You can plan a cycle of AAS which will increase collagen synthesis and skeletal muscle growth at the same time. The key is the drug(s) you choose.

Deca , Equipoise , Anavar , and Primobolan will ALL increase skeletal muscle while at the same time dramatically increase collagen syn and bone mass and density, leaving you with a substantially reduced chance of becoming injured than if you choose to use AAS like sus, cyp, or enth.

While testosterone will increase bone mass and density, even at supra-physiological levels, the result is weaker tendons due to inhibition of collagen syn.

To plan a cycle where the goal is to increase skeletal muscle mass/strength while at the same time increase joint/tendon/ligament strength, enough to keep up with the dramatic increase in skeletal muscle, you must choose drugs like Eq, Deca, Anavar, or Primo as the base of your cycle. Testosterone and its esters can be added to your cycle to keep levels within a 'normal' physiological range (ie, 100-200 mg/wk) but must not go above this. Since drugs like eq, deca, anavar and primo will reduce endogenous, natural levels of test, these levels may be maintained with exogenous test in the 100-200 mg/wk range. Test at this dose will not inhibit collagen syn, but paradoxically, will help increase it. It is when exogenous testosterone is used > 200 mg/wk that collagen syn is inhibited.

Deca @ 3 mg/kg a week(about 270 mg/wk for a 200 lb male) will increase procollagen III levels by 270% by week 2. Procollagen III is a primary indicator used to determine the rate of collagen syn. As you can see, deca is a very good drug at giving you everything you want -- an increase in collagen syn, an increase in skeletal muscle, and increases in bone mass and density. The one thing it does not give you is wood.

Primobolan, @ 5 mg/kg, will increase collagen synthesis by roughly 180% -- less than deca and equipoise but still substantial.

Equipoise @ 3 mg/kg will increase procollagen III by approximately 340% -- slightly better than deca.

Oxandrolone has over a hundred studies documenting its effectiveness at treating patients needing rapid increases in collagen syn to enhance healing.

These drugs have longer half-lives than most other AAS, so this should be considered when timing your post cycle clomid use. Here they are:

Deca: 15 days Equipoise: 14 days Primobolan: 10.5 days

Anavar has a half-life of only 8 hours so it should not pose a problem.

GH is probably the most remarkable drug at increasing collagen synthesis. It increases collagen syn in a dose dependant manner -- the more you use, the more you will increase collagen syn. It has also demonstrated this ability in short and long term studies. From what I've read, hGH at 6 iu/day increased the collagen deposition rate by around 250% in damaged collagen structures. This result indicates that the increased biomechanical strength of wounds to collagen structures treated with biosynthetic human growth hormone was produced by an increased deposition of collagen in the collagen structures.

Eq, primo, anavar, and deca are all good -- they increase several biomakers of collagen syn -- ie, type III, II, I, procollagen markers. GH just seems to do so most dramatically.

Use of any of these drugs @ supra-physiological levels with a maintenance dose of test will increase collagen syn while at the same time increase skeletal muscle mass. Skeletal muscle mass gains will not be as dramatic as with large testosterone doses but you have to weigh the risk/reward basis for yourself. Also, these drugs do not satisfy the libido like testosterone, but that is not the point of this thread. It is only to demonstrate that you can increase skeletal muscle and collagen syn at the same time with certain AAS -- the decision is up to you.

ueah i ave seen that article many many times but never any references to go w/ it

[Neevor]

ueah i ave seen that article many many times but never any references to go w/ it

Son of a. So basically Robert Jordan and Isaac Asimov could have written it for all we know.