Does and eca stack still work if....

**azizi123** · 04-24-2010, 02:49 PM

Hi, I've just started my first eca stack... As this is my first time I started with 20mg ephedrine, 1 asprin and a strong coffee.... And I didn't feel any different? So.... Just because I can't feel it does that mean it's not working, or cud it be working even tho I can't feel it?? Shud I increase the ephedrine?
Thanks

**RED26** · 04-24-2010, 07:52 PM

A truly EFFECTIVE eca stack would contain at least 200mg of caffeine, 50mg of ephedrine and 100mg of aspirin.
I hope you're getting TRUE ephedrine (hydrochloride) and not just another supplement with "ephedra extract from leaves"

If you're not feeling anything, is because it's not working.

**azizi123** · 04-24-2010, 08:51 PM

Thanks for that... I'm gonna switch the coffee for a few pro plus and bump the ephedrine up.... Cheers

**RED26** · 04-25-2010, 02:55 PM

Excelllent. Let us know how that goes.

**Bertuzzi** · 04-25-2010, 02:59 PM

I wouldn't go with 50mg of ephedrine right off the hope.

How many times a day are you dosing it?

When I run an ECA I run the Ephedrine @ 32mg and Caffeine @ 200mg 3 times a day. Strong Coffee is not enough you would have to do 5 shots of espresso to get about 200mg of caffeine (give or take 20mg)

Trust me, you'll feel it for the first few days then your body will usually settle.

**RED26** · 04-25-2010, 04:18 PM

How can you get exactly 32g of ephedrine? The tabs are either in the form of 25 or 50mg

**Bertuzzi** · 04-25-2010, 04:43 PM

Originally Posted by RED26

How can you get exactly 32g of ephedrine? The tabs are either in the form of 25 or 50mg

Ephedrine comes in all different kinds of doses 5/8/10/20/25/50 and even 100mg pills.

Here in Canada it is legal to purchase over the counter dosed at 8mg. Therefore our pills here in good old Canada come in 8mg doses.... I take 4 at a time and thats how I get exactly 32mg

**Bossman** · 04-25-2010, 04:49 PM

Originally Posted by Bertuzzi

I wouldn't go with 50mg of ephedrine right off the hope.

How many times a day are you dosing it?

When I run an ECA I run the Ephedrine @ 32mg and Caffeine @ 200mg 3 times a day. Strong Coffee is not enough you would have to do 5 shots of espresso to get about 200mg of caffeine (give or take 20mg)

Trust me, you'll feel it for the first few days then your body will usually settle.

Good advice. I would always start low with stimulants and see how you react. Increase the dose in small increments until you find your sweet spot. If you take too much, you can't pull it back out.

**killface** · 04-25-2010, 04:55 PM

A pretty commonly accepted dosing suggestion is 25mg-E/200mg-C/81mg-A 3x a day, 3-4 hours apart.

Or, of course, once or twice a day to begin with.

**Bertuzzi** · 04-25-2010, 05:20 PM

Originally Posted by cgb6810

Good advice. I would always start low with stimulants and see how you react. Increase the dose in small increments until you find your sweet spot. If you take too much, you can't pull it back out.

Couldn't have said it better myself.... very simple you can't pull it out.

Originally Posted by killface

A pretty commonly accepted dosing suggestion is 25mg-E/200mg-C/81mg-A 3x a day, 3-4 hours apart.

Or, of course, once or twice a day to begin with.

Perfection.... then up it to 3 times a day. Good Post!

**RED26** · 04-25-2010, 11:49 PM

But he had already tried with 20mg and felt nothing...
Hence the 50mg recommendation

**Bertuzzi** · 04-25-2010, 11:53 PM

Originally Posted by RED26

But he had already tried with 20mg and felt nothing...
Hence the 50mg recommendation

Might have had something to do with the lack of caffeine.... maybe not the effie dose.

**azizi123** · 04-26-2010, 06:00 AM

thanks guys, i havent wacked up the ephedrine just yet, but as i said, ive taken 2 pro plus instead...(100mg caffiene) and still nothing, maybe feel hot but im sure thats just the weather?? i dont know whats going on? ive never been one for stimulants no matter how much i take/drink etc...

**RED26** · 04-26-2010, 12:04 PM

Originally Posted by azizi123

thanks guys, i havent wacked up the ephedrine just yet, but as i said, ive taken 2 pro plus instead...(100mg caffiene) and still nothing, maybe feel hot but im sure thats just the weather?? i dont know whats going on? ive never been one for stimulants no matter how much i take/drink etc...

Just try MY stack, by MY way... And you'll see
Start with that 2 times a day, then depending on your tolerance you can up the amount.
I can tolerate pretty well 200mg of ephedrine daily, altough not everyone can.

**Bossman** · 04-26-2010, 04:48 PM

Originally Posted by RED26

Just try MY stack, by MY way... And you'll see
Start with that 2 times a day, then depending on your tolerance you can up the amount.
I can tolerate pretty well 200mg of ephedrine daily, altough not everyone can.

Are you cycling the ephedrine? Do you pyramid up to that dose or just start right out at 200 ED?

**RED26** · 04-27-2010, 02:35 PM

Originally Posted by cgb6810

Are you cycling the ephedrine? Do you pyramid up to that dose or just start right out at 200 ED?

I start with 100mg (50mg twice a day) That's day 1.
Then, on the third day, I increse the amount to 150mg (50mg three times)
On day 6 or 7 I get to 200mg (4 ECA doses troughout the day) and usually thats where I get manteinance, because that's the dosage that allows me to sleep my 8hrs without any problem.

But usually I go up to 250mg on leg days, just maybe 2 times when I prefer to be more intense rather than sleep. The highest I've been is with 300mg and that day I didn't slept at all... It wasn't nice...
I didn't have any benzo back in that day, so I tried a high dose of difenhidramine to act as sedative and nothing... I wouldn't go as far never again in my life.

I used to use ephedrine 4-6 weeks ON, and then some months OFF, because I didn't need to use it again.
But sadly, my ephedrine source dissappeared, and now I'm experimenting with clenbuterol , let's see how that goes and how far can I take it too. I've just started on monday.

**Bossman** · 04-27-2010, 02:40 PM

I haven't run ECA for a couple of years and instead have been running just clen , cycling on and off. I was wondering if the ephedrine would lose it's punch if it were run too long without taking any time off.

When I did run it, I never got above 3 doses ED and that was 25mg each. Everyone has a different tolerance though.

**jordann** · 04-27-2010, 02:48 PM

If your ephedrine is dosed at 50mg, cut it in half.

I found it works best in a 1:10:5 ratio. 25 mg of ephedrine, 200-250 mg of caffeine and 100 mg of Aspirin, twice a day worked well for me. Supplement with some BCAA's to help preserve muscle mass and raise nitrogen retention.

With the ECA stack I usually do 2 weeks on, 2 weeks off. In the same respect as clen .

**RED26** · 04-27-2010, 03:19 PM

Originally Posted by cgb6810

I was wondering if the ephedrine would lose it's punch if it were run too long without taking any time off.

I think It would. But It may take some time... I don't know... Maybe 8-12 weeks?
And it would be because the body get used to certain grade of stimulation...
Maybe then it would be possible to use a higher dose...

I don't know, just speculations, but nevertheless... Why would someone want to use ephedrine for such a long time?
Not even contest prep takes that long if you do things right.

And for obese people a better sympathomimetic choice would be sibutramine.

**RED26** · 04-27-2010, 03:25 PM

Originally Posted by jordann

If your ephedrine is dosed at 50mg, cut it in half.

I found it works best in a 1:10:5 ratio. 25 mg of ephedrine, 200-250 mg of caffeine and 100 mg of Aspirin, twice a day worked well for me. Supplement with some BCAA's to help preserve muscle mass and raise nitrogen retention.

With the ECA stack I usually do 2 weeks on, 2 weeks off. In the same respect as clen.

There's no need for cycling ephedrine like that, ephedrine even has some kind of a positive effect on the beta2 receptors.
And I think clen can be used for longer periods of time... That "popular" way of use it's not the ideal, in my opinion. (And there's some deal here with things like ketotifen or clorphenamine)
However, since I'm not quite familiar with clen, and I don't like to advise on things I haven't practically tried, I feel cgb6810 could tell us more about that aspect (and with more accuracy).

**AlphaMaleDawg** · 04-27-2010, 03:29 PM

wtf you take aspirin as part of the EC stack?

**RED26** · 04-27-2010, 03:43 PM

Originally Posted by AlphaMaleDawg

wtf you take aspirin as part of the EC stack?

The EC stack... Whoa! That's a pretty original name for your personal invention of a stack.

BUT where I come from, It's called the E-C-A stack for SOMETHING. (Why would it be?)
Let me guess... Because it has Aspirin on it? Just saying... Since aspirin start with letter "A"...

**Hard.On** · 04-27-2010, 03:49 PM

I noticed when I take the stack and then drink a coffee. I get WIRED

**RED26** · 04-27-2010, 04:14 PM

Originally Posted by twotimer

I noticed when I take the stack and then drink a coffee. I get WIRED

Yeah! Me too... And the worst part is that I love coffee

There was a time when I only use ephedrine tabs (Not ECA) And by doing that I could enjoy as much as many cups of coffee as I like again!

**Bossman** · 04-27-2010, 04:48 PM

Originally Posted by RED26

There's no need for cycling ephedrine like that, ephedrine even has some kind of a positive effect on the beta2 receptors.
And I think clen can be used for longer periods of time... That "popular" way of use it's not the ideal, in my opinion. (And there's some deal here with things like ketotifen or clorphenamine)
However, since I'm not quite familiar with clen, and I don't like to advise on things I haven't practically tried, I feel cgb6810 could tell us more about that aspect (and with more accuracy).

It's my understanding it has the exact opposite effect. It's common practice for people to cycle clen on and off while running ECA during their down time on clen. But, ephedrine and clen compete for the same beta2 receptors. The reason you go off from clen is to upregulate the receptors. I find that after 10+ days, clen is losing it's effect. Ketotifen is the only proven antihistamine that will upregulate beta 2 receptors. It was common belief that benadryl also would work (I used to think this) but it does not act the same way. This is one reason people continue to up the dose and continue to see diminishing returns. This may be why some have to run ephedrine at such a high dose?

I do not know how long it takes for ephedrine to down regulate beta2 receptors if at all, but you would think it would as its acting on the same pathway as clen.

**AlphaMaleDawg** · 04-27-2010, 05:23 PM

Originally Posted by RED26

The EC stack... Whoa! That's a pretty original name for your personal invention of a stack.

BUT where I come from, It's called the E-C-A stack for SOMETHING. (Why would it be?)
Let me guess... Because it has Aspirin on it? Just saying... Since aspirin start with letter "A"...

I've only heard of EC, not ECA. But then again, I havent used it before so I didnt go to any lengths searching it. But...wouldn't aspirin be kind of silly to use on a daily basis? Let alone to lose weight?

**Bossman** · 04-27-2010, 05:32 PM

Originally Posted by AlphaMaleDawg

I've only heard of EC, not ECA. But then again, I havent used it before so I didnt go to any lengths searching it. But...wouldn't aspirin be kind of silly to use on a daily basis? Let alone to lose weight?

The addition of aspirin does:

Aspirin or Acetyl Salicylic Acid (yielding white willow bark) enhances heat resistance in the body that promotes the longer working ability of Ephedra and Caffeine.

taken from eca-stack.n e t

**killface** · 04-27-2010, 05:33 PM

ECA effects all of the beta receptors while clen only effects b2. ECA does also down regulate the receptors but, not as quickly as clen. Possibly because it's acting on 3 as opposed to 1 or just because that's how it is. I've never seen anything besides speculation on the why.

I've heard of people using ECA during their clen off time too. It has always seemed counter productive to me.

**Bertuzzi** · 04-27-2010, 05:45 PM

I sub out the aspirin for arginine. Aspirin is hard on the stomach lining. Arginine works well!

**RED26** · 04-27-2010, 08:18 PM

Originally Posted by cgb6810

It's my understanding it has the exact opposite effect. It's common practice for people to cycle clen on and off while running ECA during their down time on clen. But, ephedrine and clen compete for the same beta2 receptors. The reason you go off from clen is to upregulate the receptors. I find that after 10+ days, clen is losing it's effect. Ketotifen is the only proven antihistamine that will upregulate beta 2 receptors. It was common belief that benadryl also would work (I used to think this) but it does not act the same way. This is one reason people continue to up the dose and continue to see diminishing returns. This may be why some have to run ephedrine at such a high dose?

I do not know how long it takes for ephedrine to down regulate beta2 receptors if at all, but you would think it would as its acting on the same pathway as clen.

Originally Posted by Killface

ECA effects all of the beta receptors while clen only effects b2. ECA does also down regulate the receptors but, not as quickly as clen. Possibly because it's acting on 3 as opposed to 1 or just because that's how it is.

OK. Now I remember.
Yeah, is just like killface says, Ephedrine affects both the adrenoreceptors alpha & beta (and I don't know about gamma), and clenbuterol just the beta2, meaning it's a selective beta-2 receptor agonist.
That's why ephedrine takes longer to lose it's effects.

And that's what I was trying to say, because of that, there's no need to cycle ephedrine like you cycle clenbuterol. Ephedrine can be used up to 6 straight weeks without any problem of receptor down-regulation.

The thing about ephedrine having some positive effects on beta-2 receptors I don't know where It come from...

I thought I had read it on the Anabolics 2009, but I have it right here and nothing... Honestly I don't know how that idea got into my brain.
I apologize for the mistake.

At least something good came from the search, as I found this on the profile of ephedrine hydrochloride in the Anabolics '09:

Aspirin helps to inhibit lipogenesis by blocking the incorporation of acetate into the fatty acids.