test-e, dbol, deca?

[bigZ244]

20
6'0
170
7% bf
3 years training

Tired of being skinny and looking like the guy who always talks gym and looks like he never goes, train 5-6 times a week, tried changing diet at least 6 times all resulting in no gains even tried eating up to 8000 calories a day for 4 weeks and nothing. Did a fair bit of research and found that test-e, dbol and deca come up the most for bulking gear, not sure about dosages though i would like some recommendations or testimonials. I would like to do a 8 week cycle with a pct that will maximize gains, hopefully I can keep up to 30 pounds considering this my first cycle.

Please tell me what I should change or add or what not. Thanks

[Matt]

Could you please post your diet as im very interested to see what it consists of???

[bigZ244]

I eat about 150g fat 400g carbs 300g protien, comes from udos oil chicken pasta and shakes

[Gaspari1255]

1.) you're too small for gear
2.) your diet is not on point
3.) Test/Deca/Dbol should be used for a second or third time user, not FIRST.
4.) 8 week cycle of test/deca is pointless..10-12 range makes more sense.
5.) you're too young for gear

[Gaspari1255]

I eat about 150g fat 400g carbs 300g protien, comes from udos oil chicken pasta and shakes

That does NOT equade to 8k calories.

[RoadToRecovery]

That does NOT equade to 8k calories.

He didnt say his diet was 8k kcal

[RoadToRecovery]

1.) you're too small for gear

Well this is a first. Why is he "too small"?

2.) your diet is not on point

How do you know?

3.) Test/Deca/Dbol should be used for a second or third time user, not FIRST.

Why is that?

4.) 8 week cycle of test/deca is pointless..10-12 range makes more sense.

Why?

5.) you're too young for gear

Hes 20, how does that make him too young?

[Gaspari1255]

Well this is a first. Why is he "too small"?

How do you know?


Why is that?


Why?



Hes 20, how does that make him too young?

it has been PROVEN that taken AAS before the age of 21 is a bad idea because of the natural potenital he has of gaining for his age with proper diet. In his first post, he explained how he attempted eating 8000 calories for 4 weeks. Either, he was NOT eating quality foods or he was NOT eating 8000 calories. The macros he posted do not equal any where close to 8000. Why do I know this? Because, I, myself have to eat pretty damn close to 8000 calories while I am bulking to make gains. Ohhh okay lets argue the cycle now----there is no reason why deca should be included in a first cycle. Test E or C at 500mg a week for 10 or 12 weeks will make just about anyone BLOW UP. Test usually doesnt kick in fully till week 5, so running it for 8 weeks only gives him just about 3 weeks to make gains, which is not intelligent. And by "he's too small", with those stats and especially height, he should be able to put on a good 15lbs with an immaculate diet and balls to the wall training in the gym.....

To the op- sorry if I cam off a bit harsh, I am just being very realisitc.

To RTR- Please stop defending him when 99% of the people on this forum are going to agree with me that he should delay his first cycle for another year or two.

[RoadToRecovery]

it has been PROVEN that taken AAS before the age of 21 is a bad idea because of the natural potenital he has of gaining for his age with proper diet.

It has been PROVEN has it? Show me.

In his first post, he explained how he attempted eating 8000 calories for 4 weeks.

Right, and then he clarified what his diet was NOW with his macronutrient plan.

Either, he was NOT eating quality foods or he was NOT eating 8000 calories. The macros he posted do not equal any where close to 8000.

No kidding.

Why do I know this? Because, I, myself have to eat pretty damn close to 8000 calories while I am bulking to make gains.

And this is how you know that his macros doesnt equal 8k kcal? Wow. Well if you did basic math and knew what 1g of each macro equated to, then you could eat 3000 kcal/day and still know how many calories he is eating. That macronutrient plan is 4150kcal a day. If you need 8000kcal to make gains than you must weigh almost 300lbs lean.

Ohhh okay lets argue the cycle now----there is no reason why deca should be included in a first cycle. Test E or C at 500mg a week for 10 or 12 weeks will make just about anyone BLOW UP.

What would you recommend then? 200mg of test E a week? What ever happened to 2-3mg of test per lbs of body weight?

Test usually doesnt kick in fully till week 5, so running it for 8 weeks only gives him just about 3 weeks to make gains, which is not intelligent.

Really? So if you take a cycle for 8 weeks you only see gains for 3 weeks? And then what happens?

And by "he's too small", with those stats and especially height, he should be able to put on a good 15lbs with an immaculate diet and balls to the wall training in the gym.....

Well this is the only thing that you have said that actually makes any sense.

To the op- sorry if I cam off a bit harsh, I am just being very realisitc.

To RTR- Please stop defending him when 99% of the people on this forum are going to agree with me that he should delay his first cycle for another year or two.

Where did I defend anyone? I simply asked you to explain your claims in any case you failed to do so. Im waiting.

[Knockout_Power]

IMO, stay away from running all 3 for your first run, you need to see how your body reacts. Never do something out of desperation or you will make mistake... my advice would be to just run a simple test cycle @ 4-500/wk and you will like your results. AT MOST, add dbol @ 25mg/day for the first 4 weeks but have liver support like liv52 or milk thistle.

Also, 8 weeks will not do much with what you have proposed unless you want to pin frequently and use Prop. which again, is not recommended for a first cycle as you also have to observe your tolerance for injecting...

Test E or C at the above dose for minimum of 10 weeks and have PCT in place.

This is only if you INSIST on doing this so early in life, you SHOULD wait a couple more years as you dont understand what this "could" do to you in the long run... yes you dont want to be the small kid, but imagine what your life will be like when your the buff kid that chicks want but you did your cycling improperly so you cant even get your d i c k up to make use of these women? A crude way to put it, but reality can be shite sometimes.

[bigZ244]

That does NOT equade to 8k calories.

ok u really want to know what i ate to get up to 8k calories ok so i had 3 shakes a day with 6 whole eggs, 2 cups full fat cream and 1000 cals from weightgainer, i practically was panting by the end of the month just making the shake i was in such bad cardiac shape. that equalls 18 eggs 6 cups full fat cream and 3000 cals from weight gainer. 6 cups of fat cream and 18 whole eggs gets you up easily to 8k cals, now i odnt know about the quality of these foods but geuss what since when is bulking considered healthy?

[bigZ244]

btw roadtorecovery your my hero haha with the quote things haha

[bigZ244]

should be able to put on a good 15lbs with an immaculate diet and balls to the wall training in the gym

I have put on about 45-50 pounds over the past 2 years and have stopped and can not seem to get out of a "platue"

[Knockout_Power]

weightgainers and protein shakes? That would answer why your calories are not equalling much muscle gains. Eat real food, 2 shakes per day max.

[RoadToRecovery]

btw roadtorecovery your my hero haha with the quote things haha

Your not out of the woods yet. I am simply preventing people from parroting information they know nothing about. Needless to say, you need to head over to the diet section and post your diet. If you are experiencing a plateau, you need to change everything including your workouts.

[bigZ244]

weightgainers and protein shakes? That would answer why your calories are not equalling much muscle gains. Eat real food, 2 shakes per day max.

yeah i know that was a time when i was despeately trying to gain weight i drink 2 shakes now with oatmeal milk blueberries and sometimes a little powder

[bigZ244]

Your not out of the woods yet. I am simply preventing people from parroting information they know nothing about. Needless to say, you need to head over to the diet section and post your diet. If you are experiencing a plateau, you need to change everything including your workouts.

yeah i have changed up my diet and i practically change it every month, and i work out 5-6 times a week and i change the routines and everything every week so i never do the same things 2 weeks in a row. but seeing that you are somewhat of a professional i would like professional advice on my dosages, what would you recomend i do, cause i dont want my dealer to od me or give me so little it doesnt do anything

[RoadToRecovery]

I wouldnt recommend anything until I saw your complete fitness schedule.

[bigZ244]

i mainly focus on the compound movements like bench squat and deadlifts and i threw some other things in there i would like, not sure about the proper name for some exersizes but hopefully you can make sense of it

Chest/Triceps/abs - Day 1
-DB bench press
-Incline DB bench press
-Decline DB bench press
-DB flat flyes

-Close grip skull crushers
-Close grip bench press
-Single arm reverse-grip cable pressdowns

Legs/shoulders - Day 1
-Squats
-leg ext
-Calf raises

-Military shoulder press
-DB shoulder press
-Front raises

Back/Biceps/Abs - Day 1
-Deadlift
-Widegrip Pulldown
-Close grip pulldown
-Shrugs

-DB curls
-Hummer curls
-single arm cable curls

Day 4 is a rest day

and i would alternate with this every week

Chest/Triceps/abs - Day 2
-BB bench press
-Incline BB Bench press
-Decline BB bench press
-DB incline flyes

-Shoulder width grip bar cable pressdown
-reverse-grip cambered bar cable pressdown
-DB skull crushers

Legs/shoulders - Day 2
-Squat
-Leg curl
-Calf raises

-Arnold press
-Upright rows
-Lateral raises

Back/Biceps/Abs - Day 2
-Sumo deadlift
-Barbell bent over row
-Seated row
-Shrugs

-BB curls
-Preacher curls
-Cable curls

Day 4 is a rest day

[gbrice75]

1.) you're too small for gear
2.) your diet is not on point
3.) Test/Deca/Dbol should be used for a second or third time user, not FIRST.
4.) 8 week cycle of test/deca is pointless..10-12 range makes more sense.
5.) you're too young for gear

I agree with all points except the first; the notion that you 'have' to have X amount of muscle prior to using AAS is asinine IMO. Sure, it's nice to see people take it as far as they can naturally before considering AAS, but I don't see that as being a requirement. Regarding the other points:

Clearly, the diet isn't on point, especially if you have taken in 8000 calories/day and didn't gain (quality?) weight. I saw what you were eating - all that cream... what do you think that's going to do for you?

As a first time user, that is too advanced of a stack and just about everyone here will agree with that. At least drop the Deca.

8 weeks is too short for test e as mentioned earlier; for an 8 week cycle you'll want test with a faster ether.

Last point is the most important - you are simply too young to consider using AAS right now. You are not even developed 100% at this point - do yourself a favor and wait a few years. Honestly, you do not need AAS. You need to hightail it over to the diet section, post up your diet and let people tweak it for you and get you eating for gains. Post up your routine while you're at it.

[RoadToRecovery]

I mean everything. Diet/supp schedule, workout regimen, sleep schedule etc.

And Im assuming thats a 3 day split... not a 1 day split lol.

[RoadToRecovery]

8 weeks is too short for test e as mentioned earlier; for an 8 week cycle you'll want test with a faster ether.

This I have to question gbrice - I dont have a rebuttal as to this being wrong or right - but what is your reasoning behind this? I have seen some articles dedicated to 8 week only cycles. I think Ronnie Rowland has an article on here about an 8 week cycle as well.

[gbrice75]

This I have to question gbrice - I dont have a rebuttal as to this being wrong or right - but what is your reasoning behind this? I have seen some articles dedicated to 8 week only cycles. I think Ronnie Rowland has an article on here about an 8 week cycle as well.

RTR - you know I like to be questioned/challenged! I don't expect special treatment from you just because we have a 'kinship'! lol

Are you certain that the Ronnie Rowland article was regarding Test Enanthate? The Enanthate Ether is very slow release (the slowest?) and won't start affecting the user until around week 3 or 4. It's not that an 8 week cycle would be useless; something is better than nothing. I just don't believe it's optimal, which is why most test e cycles are typically 12 week runs. For an 8 week cycle, i'd look into test propionate instead.

[bigZ244]

yeah 3 technically 4 cause i need the rest no matter what

for real food i eat
-twice a day 1.5 cups pasta and 1/2 chicken breast
-twice a day shakes that consists of 1 cup oatmeal, 1 cup berries, 2 cups milk, sometimes i add a banana, and/or 2 tbsp. peanut butter
-6 tbsp udos oil 2 moring 2 lunch 2 dinner

supplements
-three times daily i drink 40g of protien
-i currently just started a creatine cycle for my second time

so i drink my shake in the morning before workout then after workout i drink 40g protien then eat my chicken for lunch, drink another shake when i get home this time with 40g protien powder, eat some more chicken couple hours later, and right before bed i drink 40g protien

i typically go to bed at 9-10 and wake up at 6-7 to go to gym

dont really know what else to say other than that i train until the lactic acid starts to really kick in

[RoadToRecovery]

RTR - you know I like to be questioned/challenged! I don't expect special treatment from you just because we have a 'kinship'! lol

Are you certain that the Ronnie Rowland article was regarding Test Enanthate? The Enanthate Ether is very slow release (the slowest?) and won't start affecting the user until around week 3 or 4. It's not that an 8 week cycle would be useless; something is better than nothing. I just don't believe it's optimal, which is why most test e cycles are typically 12 week runs. For an 8 week cycle, i'd look into test propionate instead.

Feel free to ask me any questions concerning steroid cycles, etc in this thread. I see a lot of the same old questions being asked and I want to hand out some sound advise for those wanting to know what I have found to work best. It's really quite simple. KEEP ANABOLIC STEROID CYCLES/PRO-HORMONE CYCLES AT 8 WEEKS!

Taken from the second paragraph of http://forums.steroid.com/showthread.php?t=402776

[bigZ244]

yeah bro i read that thing too haha, i was just gonna say

[gbrice75]

Taken from the second paragraph of http://forums.steroid.com/showthread.php?t=402776

In all fairness, I skimmed through the article and didn't read it in detail, but it sounds like this 8 week cycle is part of a bigger/overall program concerning 'blast' routines. I have heard of them but am not familiar enough to even comment. It sounds like the article is talking about doing an 8 week cycle and then bridging until the next 'short' cycle. I could be completely wrong; this is just what I gathered at a glance.

If the OP was looking to do something like this, then perhaps an 8 week cycle would work well. I believe the traditional test cycle is generally 12-15 weeks in length. Again, this is just based on my own research and popular opinion.

[bigZ244]

perhaps an 8 week cycle would work well. I believe the traditional test cycle is generally 12-15 weeks in length. Again, this is just based on my own research and popular opinion.

i want to clear this up, test is just about as good as some other steroids but without as many negative side effects?

[RoadToRecovery]

Ronnies article is dedicated to hypertrophy. And his example that he uses for his 8 week cycle is actually Test E.

When high amounts of androgenic anabolics steroids such as testosterone enanthate are introduced into the body, maximum receptor site stimualtion occurs during the first 3-8 weeks. After having been on test for around 8 weeks your libido will begin to level out and eventually decline as will your muscle growth as these receptor sites adjust to the exogenous testosterone. It's during this 3-8 week period of enhanced libido that maximum muscle growth occurs! Some of you will make the majority of your gains during weeks 3-6 while reloading others will gain more during week 5-8. Gains are finalized during the deload (weeks 8-10 of anabolic cycle). I do believe in set time frames in regards to reducing training volume and anabolic dosages. A 2 week deload following an 8 week reload is very important because it makes you stronger and packs on some additional muscle due to a rebound effect. Long acting esters will still present during a deload. In addition, the reduction in protein actually helps the body store more protein-hence more muscle mass!

I will say from my own expertise with natural hypertrophy - I wouldnt recommend a hypertrophy mesocycle beyond 8 weeks. 6 weeks is actually where I recommend most people.

You gotta give the article a full read to truly see the idea behind his reload/deload blast routine.

[Gaspari1255]

It has been PROVEN has it? Show me.


Right, and then he clarified what his diet was NOW with his macronutrient plan.


No kidding.



And this is how you know that his macros doesnt equal 8k kcal? Wow. Well if you did basic math and knew what 1g of each macro equated to, then you could eat 3000 kcal/day and still know how many calories he is eating. That macronutrient plan is 4150kcal a day. If you need 8000kcal to make gains than you must weigh almost 300lbs lean.



What would you recommend then? 200mg of test E a week? What ever happened to 2-3mg of test per lbs of body weight?



Really? So if you take a cycle for 8 weeks you only see gains for 3 weeks? And then what happens?


Well this is the only thing that you have said that actually makes any sense.



Where did I defend anyone? I simply asked you to explain your claims in any case you failed to do so. Im waiting.

You're just a dickhead. plain and simple. Coming on here and trying to show me whose boss...sorry buddy but I don't think you are calling out a "parrot." Everything I stated makes perfect sense and you're just trying to look like some heroic guy with words of wisdom....I am tempted to make a poll:



Whats a better first cycle: Test/Deca/Dbol vs. Test only???
Is it better to run Test E at 8 or 10 weeks???


...Please feel free to browse some of my previous posts since I am such a "parrot."

.....Just maybe I am advising this kid not to cycle so early because Imade the same mistake and I am now a TRT patient at 22 years old...but hey if you think that is a good thing, then let him cycle away.

[Gaspari1255]

ok u really want to know what i ate to get up to 8k calories ok so i had 3 shakes a day with 6 whole eggs, 2 cups full fat cream and 1000 cals from weightgainer, i practically was panting by the end of the month just making the shake i was in such bad cardiac shape. that equalls 18 eggs 6 cups full fat cream and 3000 cals from weight gainer. 6 cups of fat cream and 18 whole eggs gets you up easily to 8k cals, now i odnt know about the quality of these foods but geuss what since when is bulking considered healthy?

The only time you should have a shake is PWO (whey.) And possibly a casein one before bed. The others serve no purpose. The problem here is that the majority of your diet is coming from powders.

[bigZ244]

what do you mean? out of the 300 i only get about 60 from powder? i think thats decent

[Gaspari1255]

I'm not sure I understand your question. You stated that you drink "3 shakes a day + weightgainers." I am just advising you to only have one 50-60g Whey shake PWO, and to cut out all of the other shakes/weight gainers. You won't get much out of them anway. If you have to, drink a 50g Casein shake right before bed, but you would be better off getting the protein from some Cottage Cheese/All Natty PB before bed.

[RoadToRecovery]

You're just a dickhead. plain and simple. Coming on here and trying to show me whose boss...sorry buddy but I don't think you are calling out a "parrot." Everything I stated makes perfect sense and you're just trying to look like some heroic guy with words of wisdom....I am tempted to make a poll:



Whats a better first cycle: Test/Deca/Dbol vs. Test only???
Is it better to run Test E at 8 or 10 weeks???


...Please feel free to browse some of my previous posts since I am such a "parrot."

.....Just maybe I am advising this kid not to cycle so early because Imade the same mistake and I am now a TRT patient at 22 years old...but hey if you think that is a good thing, then let him cycle away.

Your a parrot. Plain and simple. You are another member on this board that give "Just because" answers because its a popular response. Make a poll, then ask why. I guarantee the majority wont have a solid answer just like you.

Im a dickhead because I asked why. You like many people read too deeply into things that are said. When did I at all say he was right? You came on here and made a very vague post in which you gave no constructive advice and made assumptions based on nothing.

1.) you're too small for gear
2.) your diet is not on point
3.) Test/Deca/Dbol should be used for a second or third time user, not FIRST.
4.) 8 week cycle of test/deca is pointless..10-12 range makes more sense.
5.) you're too young for gear

Would you like to enlighten us as to why an 8 week cycle is pointless?
Why hes too young?

Or is your answer simply, "because everyone will agree with me".

I didnt tell you that you were wrong. I questioned your approach, and your reasoning. If you dont like it - build a bridge... and get over it.

[bigZ244]

no i said that in my 8000 cal diet i was drinknig 3 shakes and day with weightgainer, and i have 2 shakes with about 50g protien without the powder, and sometimes i add some powder, but understadn what ur saying i know supplements are to help supplement what you are already eating

[RoadToRecovery]

Since you feel that 8 week cycles are pointless - you care to reply to this thread and commit to your stance?

http://forums.steroid.com/showthread.php?t=402776

[Gaspari1255]

Your a parrot. Plain and simple. You are another member on this board that give "Just because" answers because its a popular response. Make a poll, then ask why. I guarantee the majority wont have a solid answer just like you.

Im a dickhead because I asked why. You like many people read too deeply into things that are said. When did I at all say he was right? You came on here and made a very vague post in which you gave no constructive advice and made assumptions based on nothing.


Would you like to enlighten us as to why an 8 week cycle is pointless?
Why hes too young?

Or is your answer simply, "because everyone will agree with me".

I didnt tell you that you were wrong. I questioned your approach, and your reasoning. If you dont like it - build a bridge... and get over it.

Running an 8 week cycle of Test E is STUPID. You know it is, you cannot sit here and argue with me that the gains of an 8 week Test cycle are equal to the gains of a 12 week test cycle. From personal experience, Test E doesn't really kick in fully until week 5 for me. Why would he give himself only 3 weeks to make massive gains when he could gave 5-7 weeks to make massive gains. Prop, NPP, Tren Ace WOULD make sense for 8 weeks, being they kick in much faster. However, I am in udder disbelief that you are going to sit here and argue that 8 weeks of Test E is a fvcking phenomenal idea for a first cycle.

[RoadToRecovery]

Running an 8 week cycle of Test E is STUPID.

Why?

[bigZ244]

haha, what about 10 weeks?

[Gaspari1255]

I didn't read the whole article either:


From what I gathered

1.) You should be training slingshot (The OP did not specify this)
2.) If you're taking this approach you are practically gonna be on and off 365 days a years, which is forcing me to believe that this type of cycling is for advanced BBers.
3.) Where Does RR state that this form of using AAS is good for first time users
4.) I could be wrong, but as the above guy said, you're not supposed to PCT for a while and just cruise on "x" amount of test?


From my personal expierence, the best parts of my cycle (in terms of mass and strength) were in the last two weeks of 10-12 week cycle. You do not know how my or the OPs body is going to react to compounds, so you suggesting 8 weeks of Test for his first cycle is risky; OP may be very displeased. But you're never going to admit your wrong, so it doesn't even matter.