optimal dbol cycle length???

[alecdj]

Wanna keep this short and to the point...First off, i'm 22, 5'11", 205lbs, and roughly 20% bf. I've got a 270lb bench, 300ish deep squat, and 375 deadlift. My goal is to make a small gain (or what sounds small based on other member's gains) and reach a 300lb bench within the next few months (keepin it simple for now.) For my first cycle i'm seriously considering a dbol only cycle, with some Ai while on, and Pct for 4 weeks after, however, i've got some questions.

1. what the best cycle length for dbol w/ gains vs. sides, 2, 3, or 4 weeks?
2. aromasin sounds like smaller doses, and less sides (dhl? i believe) then arimidex , what dosages and when, for 30mg of dbol a day?
3. i plan on breaking the dbol up into 3 pills w/ breakfast, 3 w/ dinner (5 mg a piece) and plan on using the pink thai (snake/arrow) type
4. i'm gonna do 4 weeks of pct, even if the cycle is only 2 weeks, since it's my first time, but what are the pros/cons of clomid vs nolvadex ?
i also plan on taking milk thislte (1500mg ed, right?), and the daily multivitamin and glucosamine that i already take

besides the choice of what i'll use to make sure the dbol doesn't aromatize (Ai), and for pct (plus in what amounts), i'd also like to know if 3000cal and about 75-100grams ed of protein (muscletech/designer whey/muscle milk) will be enough to support gains, and hopefully keep them after pct?
lookin' for constructive criticism here, so thanks ahead of time for whoever contributes!

[jordann]

Dbol only is a stupid idea. Don't waste your time. Your bodyfat is high, and you are more susceptible to side effects because of that.

You don't need AAS. Try a new training routine such as HIT or 5x5. Do lower reps to help build up your strength.

[RoadToRecovery]

If a 300lbs 1RM on the bench is your goal and you are at 270, then AAS is not necessary. Trust me when I say, I help people past their 300 mark all the time.

First off, How old are you?
Second what are your stats?
TDEE?

[alecdj]

well, i thought 300lb would be an easy goal for now (always have dreams/aspirations for 400lb... maybe some day), like i said originally, i'm 22, weigh 205lb, 5'11" tall, about 20% bf... id like to lower my body fat aswell, if possible, but really want to concentrate on my first goal now (bench)... as far as stats (u mean max right?) i've got 270 bench, 300 squat, 375 deadlift...

[RoadToRecovery]

Missed that whole first line lol.

Ok, for starters, you need to pick and choose a goal. Cutting fat and increasing strength are 2 conflicting goals so just concentrate on your goal for maximal strength.

First off, are you taking creatine?

[alecdj]

btw... i looked up the 5x5 routine, and a few other mass building workouts, but they're a little too advanced for the gym i workout in... just have flat benches, squat racks, a leg press, lat pull down, and lots of dumbells. i change workouts every month, based on what i used to do in high school (8 reps x 65%, 4 x 85% etc...), learned that to bulk up, u should do less reps on higher weight

[alecdj]

just saw the reply "road to recovery", no, i'm not taking anything now (besides eating about 2500 calories a day like i normally do... all wholesome good food btw)

[DarnGoodLookin]

damn 2500 calories a day and ur at 20%... sux to be you my friend. Personally I have never done a cycle. But I have done enough reading to know that a dbol only cycle is not worth it. There is a few dudes in my town who were doing dbol only and it was a waste in my opinion. I have read a few dbol only logs and there have only been about 2 out of the many I have read that had decent (not great) results. If I were you I would tweak my diet and training to bulk up a little, to set that PR on the bench. After that I would cut down to a suitable bodyfat range and start a real cycle. Personally I would want to take Test E for 12 weeks with a possible 4 week kick start with dbol.

[RoadToRecovery]

just saw the reply "road to recovery", no, i'm not taking anything now (besides eating about 2500 calories a day like i normally do... all wholesome good food btw)

You can just call me RTR its easier lol. Pick up some creatine thats a start. Google for a TDEE calculator and start eating more calories. Start practicing proper form. If you are the type that lets your ego get in the way of a proper set, then that could be one of your biggest issues. Not assuming anything, just acknowledging the fact.

I have a thread called back to the basics which has alot of good info on there. Ill find the link shortly.

[RoadToRecovery]

RTRs Back To The Basics Thread

Here is my thread - Keep in mind that this is strictly a guide line to use to create your own method.

[alecdj]

thanks for the fast replies, but will creatine really make the gains i'm trying for possible? (i'm looking to go up 30lbs in less than 2 months, preferably...) if so, what brand?

[RoadToRecovery]

thanks for the fast replies, but will creatine really make the gains i'm trying for possible? (i'm looking to go up 30lbs in less than 2 months, preferably...) if so, what brand?

Vitamin Shoppe creatine monohydrate is fine. If you are looking for an Arginine supp then you could pick up xpand xtreme which has a creatine blend in it.

I personally believe that if you gave your self 8 weeks, you could increase your 1RM by 30 lbs. If you gradually increase your weight by 2-5% each week for each workout, your body should adapt rather nicely. Just try to change up your routine a bit.

Creatine is an ergogenic aid that yields great benefits to all athletes. I literally have 7 studies on my desk right now that promote the benefit of creatine. If you like, pm me and ill give you the title of each so you can read them yourself.

[alecdj]

one more question (before bed)... at 20% bf i'm pretty chubby and since a kid have had a lil bit of fat on my pecs (gyno???), what would be the fastest way to take care of this...

[RoadToRecovery]

one more question (before bed)... at 20% bf i'm pretty chubby and since a kid have had a lil bit of fat on my pecs (gyno???), what would be the fastest way to take care of this...

About 3-4 months of strict dieting and cardio.

[alecdj]

hmmm... kinda was looking for a quick fix, but oh well... (not to get back into the roids questions...) but what are the effects of a winstrol only cycle? are there any relatively successfull oral only cycles? (like to keep things simple, and not alot of extra $$$)
thanks

[RoadToRecovery]

To simply put it -- no

[alecdj]

thanks for the help, i guess i'll have to research some more

[Bloodsaw]

creatine alone should for sure increase you 1 reps max be 5 - 10 lbs( more is possible ), that plus hard work, in 8 weeks you might just hit 300, i current just broke 275 which i was stuck at for several months, now i am literally ( in my opinion ) flying past it, as i did 275 for two reps on my last set today ( after 8 reps of 135, 6 reps of 185, 6 reps of 225, and 4 reps of 245, and yes i know there is better ways to get a chest workout in, but i like to throw sets like these in for several weeks at a time )

[alecdj]

couldn't get to sleep, so much to read! (another reason muscle gain is proving hard), but has anyone read this, and if so, would modest (2.5mg/5mg) dosages of letrozol/femara over 8 weeks make a difference? was kinda an interesting read

"The first steroid cycle you will do is usually the most effective in terms of muscle mass gains. Your muscles are full of testosterone receptors. They are therefore very sensitive to extra male hormones. Your second cycle will be a bit less effective. And it gets worst and worst. In order to counteract this diminishing effect of steroids , your only solution is to increase the dosages. The risk of side effects increases dramatically.

What is wrong with steroids?

Steroids are pretty effective but not very efficient. It means they will enhance your muscle mass but at an ever increasing risk in terms of side effects. There is a main reason for this lack of efficiency: the delivery mode of most steroids is pretty obsolete. We are said that they are slowly and gradually released in the bloodstream. This is very incorrect. Even when injected, most of the drug is released very rapidly in the blood. This creates a temporary "overdose" of androgens. As a result, your body will "panic". In order to counter this dramatic elevation, your body will try its best to lower this excessive androgen level. It will do this by:


Shutting down its own production of testosterone.
Doing its best to eliminate the drug.
If possible, it is going to accelerate the transformation of the anabolics to female hormones and to DHT (an apparently useless but very nasty androgen for bodybuilders).
Decreasing its sensitivity to testosterone by reducing the density of androgen receptors on target cells such as your muscles.
Even if this androgen overdose is only temporary, the counter measures taken by your body will be very long lasting.

Even if you could figure out a better steroid delivery system, none would really duplicate the way your body releases testosterone in your bloodstream. In other words, this bad delivery explains many of the side effects of steroids . You become insensitive to anabolic steroids as well as to your own testosterone. Even if your first steroid cycle is a success, you compromise your future growth. This is a terrible scenario for first timers.

Is there a solution?

The goal of a smart first cycle would be:


To use the least amounts of drugs in order to experience the least amounts of side effects
To maximize the anabolic actions while not compromising your future growth
There was no satisfactory solution to this until Trunet' study was published. In that study, he provided a single dose of Letrozole (a.k.a Femara, an aromatase inhibitor) to normal men and measured the responses of their testosterone and of their female hormone secretions. Of course, estrogen levels went down but this is not what caught my attention. The interesting response concerned the testosterone levels . Twenty one days after a single mega dose of 30 mg of Letrozole, serum testosterone level was still increased by 77% above normal. I am not suggesting you use that much! (the recommended daily dose of Femara is 2.5 mg).
But lower doses produced, not so impressive, but still remarkable effects. For example, a single intake of 0.02 mg which represents only 8% of the recommended daily dose increased testosterone level by 45% within 2 days. After a week, testosterone level was still high. Three weeks after this single intake, testosterone level was almost back to basal, almost because it is still somewhat elevated.

The main advantages of Letrozole are:


It is not a steroid, it is an aromatase inhibitor.
No injection is required.
Most importantly, Letrozole elevates your OWN testosterone.
So, the natural pattern of testosterone release is respected.
There is no temporary overdose of androgens unless you wish it.
As expected with an aromatase inhibitor, estrogen levels go down, not up as with most anabolic steroids .
If you decide to go off Letrozole, the levels of the hormones triggering the release of your testosterone, namely LH and FSH go up while they usually hit rock bottom with anabolic steroids.
I think this scenario better suits the needs of a first time user than straight anabolic steroids.
How to best use Letrozole?

On the down side, Letrozole is more expensive that steroids. But as suggested above, you do not need to use the full dosage and you do not need to take it every single day. If you use 0.5 mg every other day, a box of 30 can last almost a year. Of course, the more you are going to use, the more your testosterone level will increase. This will translate into more muscle mass gains. But Letrozole allows you to really fine tune your degree of testosterone elevation. This fine tuning is not that easy with steroids, especially injections. According to Trunet:


0.02 mg of Letrozole increased testosterone by 45% after 2 days
0.1 mg of Letrozole increased testosterone by 49% after 2 days
0.5 mg of Letrozole increased testosterone by 48% after 2 days
1 mg of Letrozole increased testosterone by 41% after 2 days
2.5 mg of Letrozole increased testosterone by 74% after 3 days
10 mg of Letrozole increased testosterone by 97% after 2 days
30 mg of Letrozole increased testosterone by 113% after 3 days
It is a good idea to start very low for a couple of days and see what happens. A rapid reduction of estrogen levels may not be well tolerated by some people. This is why you want to progress slowly and carefully. I would crush one pill and try my best to use 1/10 of that powder a day or every other day to see what happens. If everything goes well, build up your dosage.
Ideally, Letrozole is to be used along with a 5-alpha reductase inhibitor such as Proscar in order to prevent the excessive transformation of testosterone in DHT. If used with moderation, you do not have to go off Letrozole/Proscar. After of few months of this combination, you have created a very good endocrine background to start steroids.

To conclude, I am not saying Letrozole will provide more growth than steroids but its efficiency ratio is much better than anabolics for a first timer. If you are in a hurry, Letrozole is probably not for you. But neither is bodybuilding as you will end up going nowhere if you are not patient in that sport."