FVCK CLOMID!!!!!! sorry for the profanity

[Hard.On]

100/50/50/50 clom
40/20/20/20 nolv
im in my second week

Was playing baseball and my eye sight was sooo fuked up. The clomid is definitly effecting my eye sight.

I dont know if I should scrap it from my PCT.

I hate pct, when I cycle I have never had an issue.. As soon as PCT starts I get body acne/ hair growth in new places/ and now vision impairment ahhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh

[awesome1]

100/50/50/50 clom
40/20/20/20 nolv
im in my second week

Was playing baseball and my eye sight was sooo fuked up. The clomid is definitly effecting my eye sight.

I dont know if I should scrap it from my PCT.

I hate pct, when I cycle I have never had an issue.. As soon as PCT starts I get body acne/ hair growth in new places/ and now vision impairment ahhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh

where do you get new hair?....if you dont mind me asking

[Hard.On]

my shoulders

they were like a babies bottom up until i started pct. now theres like 15 hairs on each shoulder

[AlphaGenetics]

Clomid ****s up my vision too. I hate it with a passion.

[edmen2]

bro u may wanna scrap the clomid! the vision problems associated with clomid have been permanent in alot of cases! some bros just cant take it! those tracers and halos may never go away!

[j4ever41]

yeah you might want to drop it all together if not drop your dose to 25

[SuvaxXXH]

yeah ive never heard of any body using clomid and not having problems, what is the difference between clomid and nolvadex

[cherrydrpepper]

Permanent vision problems WHAT THE F---?

I just ordered 3 bottles of clomid today f n a

[marcus300]

Stop taking the clomid if your experiencing those sides.

[rj90]

My brother is experincing the same side. i told he it prob isnt the clomid...so glad this topic came up!! if he is to drop the clomid should he continue the nolvadex 40/40/20/20 or is this a side effect the same with both drugs?

[j4ever41]

......

[edmen2]

ive always associated nolva with gyno prevention but some bros can only take nolva. its better than no pct. ive not heard of any vision problems with nolva but i could be wrong. next cycle u may wanna use hcg and short esters to aid in a faster recovery.

[Erwin]

Had a serious disliking for clomid so I switched my pct to Nolva and exemestane from then on out. No Problems, quick recovery times.

[Shawn]

I dont use clomid period. Nolva only for pct.

[sigman roid]

I'd drop the clomid TT i've had vision problems with it before.

[fattywarbucks]

Damn I'm glad u posted this. I've been on the fence about clomid and my vision, but there is no way in hell I'm getting permanant vision sides for impermant gains.

Sorry about the sides man, hope they clear up

[KimboHalfSlice]

I had vision problems too during my most recent PCT, but only because I was taking 150mg of Clomiphene per day!

I started a thread about it back then:

http://forums.steroid.com/showthread.php?t=425349

As soon as I reduced the dosage, everything was back to normal.

From my own personal experience, my advice would be to take no Clomiphene at all tomorrow, and then just take a smaller dose from this point forward.

Or you can be super careful and stop taking Clomiphene altogether. Up to you.

[Ir0n]

I've noticed my eye site getting worse while on Nolva when getting back to normal once off. Clomid might not be the only one to blame mate.

[Swifto]

100/50/50/50 clom
40/20/20/20 nolv
im in my second week

Was playing baseball and my eye sight was sooo fuked up. The clomid is definitly effecting my eye sight.

I dont know if I should scrap it from my PCT.

I hate pct, when I cycle I have never had an issue.. As soon as PCT starts I get body acne/ hair growth in new places/ and now vision impairment ahhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh

It could be the Clomid or the Tamox. Clomid, though, is notoriously bad on eye sight (bluryness). Try lowering your dose of swapping Clomid for Toremifene next time.

SERMs have been linked with an increase in acne too. Try tapering your AAS proir to PCT and control estrogen at all times.

I've noticed my eye site getting worse while on Nolva when getting back to normal once off. Clomid might not be the only one to blame mate.

Tamoxifen has also caused vision disturbance, bluryness etc... In some user's. But I have never seen anything stating it permanent.

If you get this sides try and use a 2nd Gen SERM, such as Toremifene for PCT with a low dose of Tamox or Clomid, thats what I do. The latest SERMs arnt as occular toxic as the older one's.

[Bossman]

I


Tamoxifen has also caused vision disturbance, bluryness etc... In some user's. But I have never seen anything stating it permanent.

If you get this sides try and use a 2nd Gen SERM, such as Toremifene for PCT with a low dose of Tamox or Clomid, thats what I do. The latest SERMs arnt as occular toxic as the older one's.

Swifto, There was a member on here that posted at least a couple years back that he was having continuing eyesight problems long after he had stopped clomid use. He was seeing DR's and reported on this forum during his ordeal. Last I read he was still experiencing problems. I'll search for the thread.

Too many reports for me, I would never use it or recommend it.

[Swifto]

Swifto, There was a member on here that posted at least a couple years back that he was having continuing eyesight problems long after he had stopped clomid use. He was seeing DR's and reported on this forum during his ordeal. Last I read he was still experiencing problems. I'll search for the thread.

Too many reports for me, I would never use it or recommend it.

I know such accounts exist, but I'd be intrested to see anything thats permanent.

Clomid and Tamoxifen are fairly occular toxic. One of the primary improvements made when desigining newer SERMs was occular toxicity. Occular, geno toxicity and that Tamox can behave as a carcinogen. They were the main points. Also that Clomid is more of an agonist that Tamoxifen is in general (tissues).

Stick with Toremifene and low dose Tamox for PCT. Thats what I do and have never had a problem. I;ve also used Clomid as high as 200mg/ED for a few days but felt like utter shit. I'm blind in one eye so any eye sight problems would really effect me. I guess I'm fairly lucky.

[Hard.On]

Great!
I hope this problems go away because I had perfect vision prior to this.

I know its not the nolva because I have taken it before.

CLOMID IS SCRAPED!!!!! I am also not recommending clomid to anyone


Erectile^^
Super careful?? in what way

[KimboHalfSlice]

Super careful?? in what way

I think the reports of permanent vision problems are blown way out of proportion.

Think about it... if Clomiphene was really that detrimental to one's vision... there would be a new thread every five minutes saying "My personal assistant has to type this message for me because I'm now permanently blind".

Clomiphene ****s with your vision while it's in your system, there's no doubt about that.

But I've yet to be convinced that there's still persistent vision problems after you stop taking it. Honestly to me, it's like saying "I stopped drinking two months ago and I still have a hangover". My first thought would be that the hangover symptoms are caused by something else.

I suppose you could sum up my position as follows: I'm still not afraid of Clomiphene enough to stop taking it.

[AlphaGenetics]

I get major blurry vision with clomid 100 but my next pct im going to run it at 25 along with nolva just so theres something working to get my nuts going again. You may want to try that and see if the sides stop before you scrap it.

[edmen2]

my bro hasnt cycled in 5 yrs and he still complains of tracers! that goes to show how many people really research before a cycle! but the vision vs clomid threads are here!

[PK-V]

that sucks

keep us posted

[alpenguy]

Just this last pct i tried clomid and had to stop. I have taken nolva before, but since I started a late pct i thought i would give it a go..I wont take it again. Didnt mess my vision but the other sides were worse. It kinda felt as if I was taking 100 mgs a day of nolva. That stuff is strong

[Spartans09]

100 mg is overkill. Cut it back to 25-50 and I bet it subsides.

[Necrosaro]

Never had a problem with Clomid even running at 100mgs but everyone is different.

[cherrydrpepper]

Given all the sides what is a "fairly safe low dosage" for clomid? Maybe 25 mg?

[Hard.On]

2 days now with only nolva,
I think it is still in my system a bit because my vision is getting better but its not back to 100%/.../
I dont want to take any chances with my eyesight,
I will just get some serious BW done at the end of my cycle and hopefully I bounce back completly...
I usually judge my test levels based on my boners. And im still getting raging hard-ons. so its looking brighter now...literally

[jcmcnorton]

I usually judge my test levels based on my boners. And im still getting raging hard-ons

as soon as I laughed, I farted...
Hope you feel better bro. Let us know.

[Swifto]

This is one of the largest and longest studies on Tamoxifen and it showed no "permanent" eye sight damage. But did suggest "ophthalmic evaluation's" routinely.


Long-term tamoxifen citrate use and potential ocular toxicity

American Journal of Ophthalmology, Volume 125, Issue 4, Pages 493-501
M. Gorin, R. Day, J. Costantino, B. Fisher, C. Redmond, L. Wickerham, J. Gomolin, R. Margolese, M. Mathen, D. Bowman


PurposeTo estimate the prevalence of abnormalities in visual function and ocular structures associated with the long-term use of tamoxifen citrate.

MethodsA single-masked, cross-sectional study involving multiple community and institutional ophthalmologic departments was conducted with a volunteer sample of 303 women with breast cancer currently taking part in a randomized clinical trial to determine the efficacy of tamoxifen (20 mg/day) in preventing recurrences. Participants included women who had never been on drug (n = 85); women who had taken tamoxifen for an average of 4.8 years, then been off the drug for an average of 2.7 years (n = 140); and women who had been on tamoxifen continuously for an average of 7.8 years (n = 78). Women were evaluated by questionnaire, psychophysical testing, and clinical examination to determine any abnormalities in visual function and the comparative prevalences of corneal, lens, retinal, and optic nerve pathology.

ResultsThere were no cases of vision-threatening ocular toxicity among the tamoxifen-treated participants. Compared with nontreated participants, the tamoxifen-treated women had no differences in the activities of daily vision, visual acuity measurements, or other tests of visual function except for color screening. Intraretinal crystals (odds ratio [OR] = 3.58, P =.178) and posterior subcapsular opacities (OR = 4.03, P =.034) were more frequent in the tamoxifen-treated group.

ConclusionsWomen should have a thorough baseline ophthalmic evaluation within the first year of initiating tamoxifen therapy and receive appropriate follow-up evaluations.

[Hard.On]

This is one of the largest and longest studies on Tamoxifen and it showed no "permanent" eye sight damage. But did suggest "ophthalmic evaluation's" routinely.


Long-term tamoxifen citrate use and potential ocular toxicity

American Journal of Ophthalmology, Volume 125, Issue 4, Pages 493-501
M. Gorin, R. Day, J. Costantino, B. Fisher, C. Redmond, L. Wickerham, J. Gomolin, R. Margolese, M. Mathen, D. Bowman


PurposeTo estimate the prevalence of abnormalities in visual function and ocular structures associated with the long-term use of tamoxifen citrate.

MethodsA single-masked, cross-sectional study involving multiple community and institutional ophthalmologic departments was conducted with a volunteer sample of 303 women with breast cancer currently taking part in a randomized clinical trial to determine the efficacy of tamoxifen (20 mg/day) in preventing recurrences. Participants included women who had never been on drug (n = 85); women who had taken tamoxifen for an average of 4.8 years, then been off the drug for an average of 2.7 years (n = 140); and women who had been on tamoxifen continuously for an average of 7.8 years (n = 78). Women were evaluated by questionnaire, psychophysical testing, and clinical examination to determine any abnormalities in visual function and the comparative prevalences of corneal, lens, retinal, and optic nerve pathology.

ResultsThere were no cases of vision-threatening ocular toxicity among the tamoxifen-treated participants. Compared with nontreated participants, the tamoxifen-treated women had no differences in the activities of daily vision, visual acuity measurements, or other tests of visual function except for color screening. Intraretinal crystals (odds ratio [OR] = 3.58, P =.178) and posterior subcapsular opacities (OR = 4.03, P =.034) were more frequent in the tamoxifen-treated group.

ConclusionsWomen should have a thorough baseline ophthalmic evaluation within the first year of initiating tamoxifen therapy and receive appropriate follow-up evaluations.

Intersesting study
only thing is......
most of us are men and we would have different results almost for sure

[Swifto]

Intersesting study
only thing is......
most of us are men and we would have different results almost for sure

I dont think so.

Please tell me how our eye's differ as males?

[AlphaMaleDawg]

op your avatar creeps me the hell out everytime I see you post. Who is that guy?

And sucks that clomid is doing that to you man

[rc_p90]

im still on the fence as to if i wanna use clomid for pct

[Swifto]

There are studies for and against Tamoxifen. Some show its safe, others show its a heptacarcinogen in rodents (not good!). Other shows its safe in the long term (above). And some show its occular toxicity (retinopathy) may be permenent in some (below).



Cancer. 1992 Jun 15;69(12):2961-4.

Clear evidence that long-term, low-dose tamoxifen treatment can induce ocular toxicity.

A prospective study of 63 patients.
Pavlidis NA, Petris C, Briassoulis E, Klouvas G, Psilas C, Rempapis J, Petroutsos G.

Department of Medicine, Medical School, University of Ioannina, Greece.

Abstract
The current study has prospectively investigated the incidence and course of ocular toxicity after low-dose tamoxifen treatment. Sixty-three patients with cancer who could be examined were analyzed. Tamoxifen was administered on a 20-mg daily dose. Median duration of treatment was 25 months. Median total tamoxifen dose was 14.4 gr. Four patients had retinopathy and/or keratopathy 10, 27, 31, and 35 months, respectively, after tamoxifen initiation (an incidence of 6.3%). Ophthalmologic findings consisted of decreased visual acuity, bilateral macular edema, yellow-white dots in the paramacular and fovea areas in all patients as well as corneal opacities in one patient. After tamoxifen withdrawal almost all ocular abnormalities were found to be reversible, except for the retinal opacities. This is the first prospective study in the literature indicating that even conventional low-dose tamoxifen treatment can induce ocular toxicity. In addition, the authors review and discuss the literature of the last decades.

PMID: 1591689 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE]

[Swifto]

Were using it for 6 weeks. Thats how long my PCT lasts, unless my labido. energy, recovery time etc... Are back before. Listen to your body then follow up with BW.

Tamoxifen is almost certainly occular toxic and geno toxic, but were using it for limited peroids in the year and its one of, if not the best SERM at rstoring the HPTA post AAS use.

There is much more data on Clomid (long term in males) than there is on Tamox. And even less on Toremifene and Rolaxifene. But these 2nd Gen SERMs ARE less toxic, thats a fact.

If your worrie about side effects keep the doses low. Clomid at 25mg/ED can increase T by 146%. Tamox at 20mg/ED even more. So use low doses for longer, not high doses for shorter.

I suggest you use a larger initial dose for the first 5-7 days with 1st Gen SERMs (Clomid/Tamox). Then down to 25mg and 20mg respectively.

Tore is a little different. I use and suggest it at 120mg/ED for the first 2 weeks, then down to 100mg/ED and 60mg/ED finally. Over 6 weeks.

You must weigh up the cost vs. reward and at the moment, nothing will raise endogenous testosterone as much as SERMs will. So continue to use them, but be sure to understand the risks.

[fossilfuel7]

WHat the hell are we supposed to use for PCT if Clomid and Tamox ruin our eyes? Geeeeez just when I thought PCT was the safest part of AAS usage, I see a thread like this