No gains after 1st cycle???

**juicyfruit71** · 05-22-2010, 08:50 PM

Okay so I'm trippin on a thread I just read on another forum. They were basically saying that after their first cycle (which they kept most of their gains) they pretty much lost everything on their later cycles...so basically they would cycle...get bigger...lose it all...cycle again...etc. Is this a bunch of shiit or what?? Hope so!

**Big** · 05-22-2010, 08:52 PM

happens more often than not, diet is what makes people grow, not steroids .

**juicyfruit71** · 05-22-2010, 08:57 PM

Wow! So basically there's no reason to do more than one cycle? If that's the case then my mind just got blown away!

Don't get me wrong...at this point I'm starting to grasp how important diet is...it's just that I've been on a plateau now for the last 3 months...been doing everything I know to break it (changing routines, eating more, resting...etc) but it hasn't worked yet, and that's why I decided I wanted to do another cycle. I would hate to think I'm at my full potenial right now.

**Kibble** · 05-22-2010, 08:58 PM

Could also be shitty pct

**Big** · 05-22-2010, 08:59 PM

Originally Posted by juicyfruit71

Wow! So basically there's no reason to do more than one cycle? If that's the case then my mind just got blown away!

there is no reason to do any cycles if you don't keep adjusting the diet as to keep up with the new growth.

**juicyfruit71** · 05-22-2010, 09:15 PM

Originally Posted by Big

there is no reason to do any cycles if you don't keep adjusting the diet as to keep up with the new growth.

I totally understand that...and to be honest, I'm sure my diet isn't all that it should be. It's only been in the last 6 months that I realized how important it really is. It's still hard for me to accept though...that even if I was eating right, workin out right, doing the correct pct's...that I would still lose all my gains from any cycle from here on out. But...it seems to me, for the short time I've been on here, that you're the man Big...and though I might not like the answer, I tend to believe what you say...so I'm just a little fuked in the head right now.

**Big** · 05-22-2010, 09:23 PM

Originally Posted by juicyfruit71

I totally understand that...and to be honest, I'm sure my diet isn't all that it should be. It's only been in the last 6 months that I realized how important it really is. It's still hard for me to accept though...that even if I was eating right, workin out right, doing the correct pct's...that I would still lose all my gains from any cycle from here on out. But...it seems to me, for the short time I've been on here, that you're the man Big...and though I might not like the answer, I tend to believe what you say...so I'm just a little fuked in the head right now.

you seem to be completely misunderstanding what I'm saying, I never said what you seem to think I said in either of your responses.
Let's start over, most people expect the steroids to do the work, therefore they do not effectively diet so as to keep the gains from subsequent cycles. that would not mean that with proper diet and training, pct, etc, the gains could not be kept.
this actually ties in closely with "genetic potential". most people do not wait till they have approached their genetic potential. with proper diet and training they would not reach a point where the gains are not keepable until they exceed their genetic potential.
if a guy is 5'10, 150lbs, then cycles and gains to 170lbs, keeping the same diet he started with, he will return to 150lbs whether it's his first or his 10th cycle.

**juicyfruit71** · 05-22-2010, 09:32 PM

Originally Posted by Big

you seem to be completely misunderstanding what I'm saying, I never said what you seem to think I said in either of your responses.
Let's start over, most people expect the steroids to do the work, therefore they do not effectively diet so as to keep the gains from subsequent cycles. that would not mean that with proper diet and training, pct, etc, the gains could not be kept.
this actually ties in closely with "genetic potential". most people do not wait till they have approached their genetic potential. with proper diet and training they would not reach a point where the gains are not keepable until they exceed their genetic potential.
if a guy is 5'10, 150lbs, then cycles and gains to 170lbs, keeping the same diet he started with, he will return to 150lbs whether it's his first or his 10th cycle.

Thanks for clearing that up! So bascially the statement that you can't keep your gains after the first cycle is bogus?...as long as you eat right and pct right.?

Now for the second question,...let's just say that I have reached my genetic potenial and then I do a cycle...will I still keep the gains if the diet and pct is right?

**Big** · 05-22-2010, 09:34 PM

nope, once your natural genetic potential is exceeded, you will not retain the gains naturally.

**juicyfruit71** · 05-22-2010, 09:40 PM

Originally Posted by Big

nope, once your natural genetic potential is exceeded, you will not retain the gains naturally.

Okay one more question...and I REALLY appreciate you spending the time here...okay so basically once you reached you genetic potential, that's it. You can cycle and get bigger, but once your off you'll just lose it no matter what.

So I guess that's when people make that decision to never go off!

**Big** · 05-22-2010, 10:01 PM

exactly, however natural genetic potential varies from person to person. one guy may reach 250lbs at 5'10" and 12%bf naturally, while another guy may max at 190lbs at same height and bf. genetics vary greatly and can be cruel or kind, it's hard to say. my best friend is around 5'9" and about 230 and maybe 17%bf, natural, doesn't diet well at all and training is between average and poor. his dad is 5'6" and maybe 160lbs soaking wet. I see a lot of guys say "well my dad is...so..." and that may not mean as much as some would think.

**juicyfruit71** · 05-22-2010, 10:53 PM

I'm afraid I've got those cruel genetics damn it! LOL I guess I'll find out. Thanks again for all your help!

**lovbyts** · 05-23-2010, 04:21 AM

Good explanation Big and Good questions juicyfruit.

Keep in mind MOST people NEVER reach their natural limits and it's 99% due to diet/eating habits.

Most people who pump up due to AAS and then loose it, it is mostly water weight because if it was muscle they would keep a lot more of it and it would take a LOT longer to loose. Food = muscle growth. Water = fast gains/size and then shrinkage.

**ninesecz** · 05-23-2010, 09:44 AM

Originally Posted by Big

exactly, however natural genetic potential varies from person to person. one guy may reach 250lbs at 5'10" and 12%bf naturally, while another guy may max at 190lbs at same height and bf. genetics vary greatly and can be cruel or kind, it's hard to say. my best friend is around 5'9" and about 230 and maybe 17%bf, natural, doesn't diet well at all and training is between average and poor. his dad is 5'6" and maybe 160lbs soaking wet. I see a lot of guys say "well my dad is...so..." and that may not mean as much as some would think.

I know what you mean.... My Dad, 5'10" 145# My Brother 5'10" 155# Me 6'0" 225-230" I am so much bigger naturally than everyone else in my family it is almost rediculous!!

**lovbyts** · 05-23-2010, 09:42 PM

Originally Posted by ninesecz

I know what you mean.... My Dad, 5'10" 145# My Brother 5'10" 155# Me 6'0" 225-230" I am so much bigger naturally than everyone else in my family it is almost rediculous!!

Go with your dad and get a DNA test done.

**gym_junki** · 05-23-2010, 10:26 PM

Lmao

**CMB** · 05-25-2010, 02:30 PM

Keep in mind some steroids have the ability to keep all the gains you make.

Anavar , for one.

**Big** · 05-25-2010, 05:13 PM

Originally Posted by CMB

Keep in mind some steroids have the ability to keep all the gains you make.

Anavar, for one.

again, only if your diet is sufficient to maintain the growth. if someone's diet is sufficient to make them 170lbs, they gain to 180 on anavar , then continue eating the same as they used to, they will return to 170lbs. there are no steroids that will replace the need for proper nutrition.

**SEAviator** · 05-25-2010, 06:59 PM

Originally Posted by Big

nope, once your natural genetic potential is exceeded, you will not retain the gains naturally.

WTF?

So let me get this straight......

Lets say you reach your natural genetic potential of 200lbs.....

You juice for 1st time..... Train like an animal, eat like a horse, sleep like a bear, perfect cycle, perfect pct..

Post cycle you continue training like an animal, eating perfectly and more, everything absolutely perfect for weight....

You're still not keeping gains?

WTF?

My life plan was reaching my natural genetic potential and then juice.. Reality Ill just stay the same?? I think I got this seriously all wrong

**ScotchGuard** · 05-26-2010, 04:50 AM

When I was 30 I couldn't get past 150lbs no matter how much I ate and trained. When I 40 I had the same issues at 170lbs. Now that I'm 50 I'm nearly 190lbs with one cycle under my belt. I've been at this weight for over a year. As we age it seems that our genetic profile changes with time. Our metabolism changes and our hormone level change we're still bound by our genetic potential but that potential is now a moving scale.

**lovbyts** · 05-26-2010, 05:05 AM

Originally Posted by ScotchGuard

When I was 30 I couldn't get past 150lbs no matter how much I ate and trained. When I 40 I had the same issues at 170lbs. Now that I'm 50 I'm nearly 190lbs with one cycle under my belt. I've been at this weight for over a year. As we age it seems that our genetic profile changes with time. Our metabolism changes and our hormone level change we're still bound by our genetic potential but that potential is now a moving scale.

But the problem is with most people/men the balance shifts from our chest/arms to our waist/butts. LOL

**lovbyts** · 05-26-2010, 05:07 AM

Originally Posted by SEAviator

WTF?

So let me get this straight......

Lets say you reach your natural genetic potential of 200lbs.....

You juice for 1st time..... Train like an animal, eat like a horse, sleep like a bear, perfect cycle, perfect pct..

Post cycle you continue training like an animal, eating perfectly and more, everything absolutely perfect for weight....

You're still not keeping gains?

WTF?

My life plan was reaching my natural genetic potential and then juice.. Reality Ill just stay the same?? I think I got this seriously all wrong

NO! go back and read what Big said again. If you still think the same thing read it until it makes sense because you have it wrong.

**jayvio** · 05-26-2010, 01:05 PM

so idealy u want to use steroids before u reach your natural potential to help u get there... and then try to keep it.. instead of using the aas after u have already reached it??

**AlphaMaleDawg** · 05-26-2010, 01:15 PM

a lot of you guys are misunderstanding Big. He is just using an example assuming the person's diet is off. If someone gains 15lbs on a 2nd or 3rd cycle, they can keep almost all of it if they train/eat the same as they did on cycle

**cherrydrpepper** · 05-26-2010, 01:21 PM

Originally Posted by juicyfruit71

Okay so I'm trippin on a thread I just read on another forum. They were basically saying that after their first cycle (which they kept most of their gains) they pretty much lost everything on their later cycles...so basically they would cycle...get bigger...lose it all...cycle again...etc. Is this a bunch of shiit or what?? Hope so!

Guy in the gym squatting 8 plates for reps yesterday:
"I get all these morons coming up to me asking how do I get a tear drop , how do I get peaks to stand out, I wanna get ripped. Then I laugh and look at them and they are 130 lbs. F all that. Get big really big then worry about all that. "

IMO he was talking about the same morons you're talking about. Diet is key.

**rocheey** · 05-26-2010, 04:09 PM

Originally Posted by ScotchGuard

When I was 30 I couldn't get past 150lbs no matter how much I ate and trained. When I 40 I had the same issues at 170lbs. Now that I'm 50 I'm nearly 190lbs

When I was 20, I couldn't bend my hard-on, even using both hands. Now that I'm 50, I can do it with one hand. Shows you how much stronger I've gotten

**devilduckizer09** · 05-26-2010, 04:16 PM

Originally Posted by lovbyts

Go with your dad and get a DNA test done.

lmfao!!!!!!!

**lovbyts** · 05-26-2010, 09:34 PM

Originally Posted by jayvio

so idealy u want to use steroids before u reach your natural potential to help u get there... and then try to keep it.. instead of using the aas after u have already reached it??

NO, you are reading it backwards also.

You should always try to reach your natural potential first. Yes you will PROBABLY loose some, maybe most of your gains eventually but really MOST people dont even come close to their natural limits even though they think they are at them.

It's like most kids who are 6' 2" 160 lbs who say they CANT gain weight, they are at their max. LOL

One you have reached or come close to your natural limits and you figure out out to eat/diet your body will adjust and you keep a lot or most of the muscle if you do it right or at least it is a SLOW process of it going back down and by the time it does you are probably ready for another cycle.

The cycles dont have to be BIG to maintain it either so dont over think it unless you are planning on trying to get HUGE and compete.

**juicyfruit71** · 05-26-2010, 09:50 PM

Originally Posted by SEAviator

WTF?

So let me get this straight......

Lets say you reach your natural genetic potential of 200lbs.....

You juice for 1st time..... Train like an animal, eat like a horse, sleep like a bear, perfect cycle, perfect pct..

Post cycle you continue training like an animal, eating perfectly and more, everything absolutely perfect for weight....

You're still not keeping gains?

Actually, I think this is exactly what he is saying! Once you've reached your natural genetic potential, that's it! No matter how much juice you put in your body, once you go off, you're gonna lose it...EVEN if you're eating and training the way you're supposed to. That's why some people, once they've gotten to this point, make the decision to never go off, so they can keep that extra 20-30lbs.

**juicyfruit71** · 05-26-2010, 09:58 PM

Originally Posted by lovbyts

Once you have reached or come close to your natural limits and you figure out out to eat/diet your body will adjust and you keep a lot or most of the muscle if you do it right or at least it is a SLOW process of it going back down and by the time it does you are probably ready for another cycle[/B].

The cycles dont have to be BIG to maintain it either so dont over think it unless you are planning on trying to get HUGE and compete.

I agree with you that most people think they've reached their limits when they haven't. But still...what you said above seems like a concession to Big's point...that once you've reached your limits, you WILL lose all your gains...though, as you stated, it may be slow.

**Big** · 05-26-2010, 10:17 PM

Originally Posted by juicyfruit71

I agree with you that most people think they've reached their limits when they haven't. But still...what you said above seems like a concession to Big's point...that once you've reached your limits, you WILL lose all your gains...though, as you stated, it may be slow.

that's not what I said either lol, I give up

**juicyfruit71** · 05-26-2010, 10:48 PM

Originally Posted by Big

that's not what I said either lol, I give up

LOL! Sorry Big if I've misquoted you...but below is the jist of what I got from you...

Originally Posted by Big

if a guy is 5'10, 150lbs, then cycles and gains to 170lbs, keeping the same diet he started with, he will return to 150lbs whether it's his first or his 10th cycle.

...if you don't make adjustments in your diet to carry the new muscle, you'll lose it. However....

Originally Posted by Big

once your natural genetic potential is exceeded, you will not retain the gains naturally.

...and to me that means regardless of how hard you work out or how much you eat you will not retain the gains once you've exceeded your natural genetic potential...unless you stay on the juice.

So...if I'm not understanding that correctly...then I give up too! LOL

**jayvio** · 05-27-2010, 09:57 AM

Originally Posted by juicyfruit71

LOL! Sorry Big if I've misquoted you...but below is the jist of what I got from you...

...if you don't make adjustments in your diet to carry the new muscle, you'll lose it. However....

...and to me that means regardless of how hard you work out or how much you eat you will not retain the gains once you've exceeded your natural genetic potential...unless you stay on the juice.

So...if I'm not understanding that correctly...then I give up too! LOL

thats how im understanding it too...
but i will keep in mind that most people never reach there natural potential if if they think they have...

**AlphaMaleDawg** · 05-27-2010, 10:30 AM

Originally Posted by ninesecz

I know what you mean.... My Dad, 5'10" 145# My Brother 5'10" 155# Me 6'0" 225-230" I am so much bigger naturally than everyone else in my family it is almost rediculous!!

I just can't stop looking at brandy talore in your avatar. my god the things I would do