I am about to start my winstrol have been on test for 4 weeks. I am wondering if I should ingest m winstrol instead of shooting it since it is a water based product. What do you guys think?
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I am about to start my winstrol have been on test for 4 weeks. I am wondering if I should ingest m winstrol instead of shooting it since it is a water based product. What do you guys think?
NO!!! what a waste... I have yet to run a cycle, but from my research you are not reaping your full benefits. It will hurt a little bit, but who cares. Just mix it in the barrel with test and you're good to go.
I will mix it with my test but I only take my test every four days as it is Test E. Guess I just have to suck it up...
is this a joke??
Try injecting it first and foremost. JSc is correct, you will not get the most out of it by drinking it, although if injecting is not possible due to extreme pain, then you can drink it. I've had winny before that was impossible to shoot and drank it with nice results.
no joke bro.. winny is a 17aa steroid and can be taken orally.. just like d-bol.Quote:
Originally Posted by crf450x
True but I hear its a lottttt worse on your body by drinking the injectable...Quote:
Originally Posted by Igifuno
If you're not ready to pin then you're not ready for a cycle.
He's already pinning... he was just asking if he should ingest since its water based, which is a pretty common question. Although the fact that its water based has nothing to do with whether or not you should take orally, but rather the fact that its 17aa and can be absorbed in the stomach and broken down in the liver.
Here come the can i drink winstrol threads ha, summer time and spring break always.
You know you can always count on 'em!! Three things in life are a sure thing.. death, taxes, and can you drink the winny threads!! Lol.Quote:
Originally Posted by bjpennnn
I think there are 4 things... your forgot the, "I just started my dbol only cycle..." threadsQuote:
Originally Posted by Igifuno
Well, Green, you can do both. Because it is water based it will sting a bit. But since your now on Test your a man and can handle the pain. I however like chasing it with Canadian Whiskey, Crown is preferred. Or use pure grain..Quote:
Originally Posted by imwithgreen
quit cryin and man up
u know they make winny tabs ? ur idea just sounds wrong
We're talking a 20% difference here. Not that big of a deal.Quote:
Originally Posted by ArmyMan04
I usually cook the liquid winny down in a frying pan on low heat. Once the water is evaporated, I scrap the powdered into lines. I then snort them like you would cocain. Ahh what a rush.
I'm kidding by the way. Just inject it.
Ok. I still think 20% is more than i want =]Quote:
Originally Posted by Bonaparte
I started to heat up the pan...:2jk:Quote:
Originally Posted by Kingkuts
ive read on alot of boards its better to drink it, it releases more or some shitQuote:
Originally Posted by Igifuno
I posted this just a couple weeks ago, surprised me how much info on this subject is parrotted and incorrect when the facts are available with a simple search. Both drinking and injecting each have pro's and cons, and should be used accordingly.
credit to Merc:
Oral winny is better for binding to SHBG , plus increasing free test...
While inject causes a much greater increase in protein synthesis and nitrogen retention..
Also
Keep in mind that oral winny has a 20 -25 % diffrence in the absorbtion rate .. So when dosing oral winny make sure to keep that in mind ...
Winstrol - Oral Versus Injectable
I tend to shy away from straight “information” articles- in other words, I’ve never written the “How Androgens Work” article, because I’ve read it several times by several authors, and I really have nothing to add. Gene Transcription and Androgen Receptor Action has been written about over, and over, ad nauseum. All of the articles I’ve read on the topic are well written and well- they’re all the same. Don’t get me wrong, all of the articles which discuss the topic are very informative, but when you’re done reading them, you don’t really have anything you can “use” in your next cycle.
And I’m sure you know the difference between orals and injectables, but do yourself a favor and read this article, because I’m going to explain some things in here that you can use in your next cycle. Actually, I’m going to explain how you can use Winstrol (Stanozolol) as either an oral or injectable, and get a very different set of effects from the same drug- depending on which route of administration you choose to utilize.
First, lets go over the basics of Winstrol, so we’re all on the same page here.
Winstrol is a steroid derived from the base structure of Dihydrotestosterone (DHT). DHT is just testosterone which has been 5alpha-reduced, meaning it has had the c4-5 double bond removed by two hydrogen atoms. This is very interesting from a chemical/biological standpoint. Once this bond is removed, testosterone has become DHT, and DHT is the body’s most potent androgen. DHT has a slew of beneficial effects which are more pronounced than the hormone it’s created out of. DHT is able to increase androgen receptor proliferation for almost 24 full hours (1) DHT also has profound effects on the Central Nervous System (CNS), and this is why we often see profoundly increased aggression with athletes who are using DHT derivatives such as Masteron (which has a deceivingly low anabolic and androgenic rating). As an added benefit, DHT can not aromatize (convert via the aromatase enzyme) into estrogen. It’s also noteworthy that the injectable version of Winstrol is actually the same exact thing as the oral- it’s just micronized Stanozolol powder suspended in water (or sometimes oil).
So what we have in Winstrol is DHT with two modifications- an added c17 methylation, and a very weird “pyrazol” group. The c17 methylation has been added in order to allow Winstrol to survive oral ingestion and the subsequent first pass through the liver. The pyrazol group is a bit weirder- what this means to you and I is that it has another whole “ring” attached to the four ring Steran Nucleus of DHT. Take a look over at the lower left portion of the two molecules below, and you’ll notice that Winstrol has an added cyclopentane (5 sided) group (the pyrazol group)
When we really take a look at Winstrol, the anabolic rating of this product is very high (320% that of testosterone) as compared to its androgenic actions (30% of testosterone). Despite this, Winstrol is really a disappointing drug for size gains. What we typically see with this stuff is some pretty decent strength gains and some nice fat loss if the user isn’t too sloppy with their diet. Not many people report huge weight gains off of Stanozolol. Although many drugs which bind tightly to the androgen receptor are suspected to exhibit their at least some of their lipolytic (fat-burning) effects through receptor binding affinity. The effects of androgens on the regulation of lipolysis in adipose precursor cells.(2), Winstrol remains a potent cutting drug, despite the fact that it has a relatively weak AR binding ability (3). What this tells me is that there’s some stuff going on with regards to Winstrol’s mechanism of action, which doesn’t involve androgen receptor mediated effects. Still, Winstrol is a very potent compound for enhancing protein synthesis (4-5 ) .
As previously discussed, it’s derived from DHT, and DHT is known to have ant-estrogenic effects (6) and Winstrol itself also has anti-progestenic properties (in at least some cases, where it may "block" that receptor) (7). So I think it’s safe to say that some of the “hard” look you can get in your physique from Winstrol is because of it’s ability to inhibit estrogen and progesterone- known culprits in making a physique appear smooth. Unfortunately, since it is 17aa, it is also liver toxic, especially more so when you inject it and it is subject to what is known as the “first pass” through the liver. The difference between taking oral vs. injectable Winstrol, even though it’s technically the same drug, is how and when your body metabolizes it. When you consume a drug orally, that drug is absorbed from the Gastrointestinal tract, where it then passes via the portal vein into the liver -where some drugs are metabolised. This “first pass” can mean that only a certain portion of the drug reaches your body’s bloodstream. As previously discussed, a 17aa has been attached to Winstrol to allow a sizeable portion to survive this metabolism.
First pass metabolism can occur in both the gut and the liver, and where this happens can vary with different drugs. First pass metabolism actually occurs in your gut for some drugs and in the liver for others. Once it has been metabolized, it enters the bloodstream. It’s important to note that when a blood is metabolized in the Gastrointestinal tract, the blood leaving the Gastrointestinal tract does not go right to the heart, but actually still passes through liver via the hepatic portal vein and then ultimately returns to circulation via the hepatic vein. The liver is your body’s filtration unit, and removes large quantities of nutrients, dangerous toxins (or fun toxins, depending on what they are) and other substances from the blood.
So as you can see, when you take an oral steroid such as Winstrol, undergoes a first-pass metabolism in the both the intestines as well as liver. Some drugs can be absorbed more or less totally intact, after only moderate metabolic activity, while some are absorbed only after very extensive metabolic activity. Once it is through this first pass, a given drug then circulates in the blood until it is acquired by another tissue, such as skeletal muscle. Now, if the drug reaches the liver again, it may undergo what is cleverly known as “second-pass” metabolism. Of course, in the case of Winstrol, an injectable version is available, and when we compare the oral and injectable versions of Winstrol and their effects in your body, I think there’s some surprising differences. The injectable is (naturally) put right into your bloodstream and only undergoes the far less extensive second pass metabolism, while the oral must endure the gut and liver on it’s first pass before ending up in circulation.
Now, here’s the interesting part: When you inject Winstrol, instead of taking it orally, you actually get more nitrogen retention (4) (and hence we can infer, more new muscle tissue is being built). SO if you are trying to use Winstrol to build new muscle tissue, the injectable version is going to be far superior to the Oral version. However, there are some advantages that the oral version has over the injectable, including a possible “synergy” with other drugs- but only (primarily) when taken orally.
While in the liver, on it’s first pass, Winstrol is exposed to a variety of enzymes and proteins. To understand how a possible synergy between Winstrol and other steroids may be possible, a little background on Sex Hormone Binding Globulin (SHBG) is first necessary. For our purposes here, all we need to know is that SHBG is a glycoprotein produced in the liver, which binds to testosterone and makes it biologically unavailable to do all the things we want it to do- like building muscle. It serves to transport testosterone throughout the body, but while it remains bound to testosterone, the testosterone can not exert it’s anabolic effects.
As you can surmise, a very large portion of the testosterone in your body is bound to SHBG. Wouldn’t it be great if we could lower SHBG? With Winstrol we can.
A fairly conservative oral dose of .2mg/kg of Winstrol has been shown to lower SHBG by close to 50%. (8)For me (200lbs) this would mean I would only need around 18mgs/day to free up half of my SHBG bound testosterone! For my omnipresent and hypothetical “100kg bodybuilder”- only 20mgs would be needed (he’s 220 lbs for the metrically impaired among us). Now, with less SHBG floating around in me, my anabolic steroid cycle will be more effective, right? Right.
But why can we only expect such a dramatic lowering of SHBG with the oral? Well, obviously, we’re taking advantage of the first pass through the liver, where we can have our Winstrol interact with SHBG where it’s produced- in the liver…without going through the bloodstream first.
When we take a look at a study done comparing injectable vs. oral contraceptives, we find that the oral version at 70mgs/week (10mgs/day given orally) is more effective at affecting SHBG levels than 400mgs/week given via an injection! (9)In this study, testosterone undecanoate was given at a constant dose along with norestisterone (which raises SHBG). What we see is that when norestisterone is given orally, it produces a far greater effect on SHBG, than when it is administered via an injection. And this is even when the doses of the injectable are 4x higher!
Of course, in this study, they’re looking at oral vs. injectable versions of a SHBG raising drug- but what we can take away from it is that SHBG interaction with oral compounds is far more pronounced than it is with injectables.
So lets take a small amount of Winstrol with our cycles, and free up some of those steroids we’re taking, right? Right!
Unless of course, we’re talking about women here…I was recently asked why I recommend that women use the injectable version of Winstrol over the oral. I was asked this question by someone, who I assumed had a female friend who was considering using Winstrol. I then realized I was totally incorrect- not about Winstrol, but about the reason behind the question. You see…I saw a picture of the man who had first asked me the question, and it’s readily apparent to me that he probably doesn’t actually know any women. But still, his question is valid and bears repeating and answering here.
I recommend that women avoid the oral version of this product for the same reason that men will find that it gives them an increased synergy and effectiveness in their cycles.
When SHBG is lowered in women, there is more free testosterone floating around. And as we’ve seen, the oral is going to affect SHBG exponentially more than the injectable will. When we lower SHBG too much in women, we see a strong positive correlation with hyperandrogenism (10 ), and hirsuitism (abnormal growth of body hair), as well In fact, non-SHBG-bound testosterone may actually be the defining characteristic for identifying hyperandrogenism in women. In addition, low SHBG contributes to menstrual irregularity.(11)
Finally, and (partially) anecdotally, we also see a greater incidence of clitoral enlargement and acne when the oral version of Winstrol is used by women instead of the injectable. The reasons for this are obvious- When we increase free testosterone by lowering SHBG, we increase the amount of testosterone which is able to be 5a-reduced to DHT. DHT is the primary culprit for steroid induced acne, and is also the hormone responsible for external genital enlargement. Clearly, this is why we see the increased level of clitoral hypertrophy as well as acne when oral Winstrol is used by women.
We can also see increased acne when men use Winstrol orally, but these effects are relatively minor when a 2mg/kg dose is being used to increase the effectiveness of other steroids in a cycle. This isn’t carte blanche to go using Winstrol for an extended period of time under the excuse that it’s increasing the overall effectiveness of the cycle. Stanozolol has some of the worst liver toxicity (hepatoxicity) of any oral steroid on a mg for mg basis. In addition, it’s deleterious effects on your lipid profile (Cholesterol) are also very pronounced, even at low doses- 6mgs/day of Stanozolol can lower HDL (good cholesterol)by 33% and raise LDL (bad cholesterol) by 29% (12 ).
So, hopefully, you’ve reached the end of this article and realized that Winstrol can be used in any cycle to increase the effectiveness of it, but that it must be used sparingly due to it’s possible hepatoxicity and lipid profile effecting properties. Still, when used in heavy testosterone-based profiles, at a dose that will cut your SHBG levels in half, it can increase you other steroids effectiveness quite a bit…but when maximal protein synthesis is wanted, you need to inject it.
There you go…the differences between oral and injectable Winstrol, and how you can use either form to maximize your gains! And yes, Lyle, you can drink Winny.
References:
Neural Androgen Receptor Regulation: effects of androgen and antiandrogen. Lu S, Simon NG, Wang Y, Hu S, J Neurobiol 1999 Dec; 41(4):505-12
Endocrinology. 1990 Feb;126(2):1229-34. Xu X, De Pergola G, Bjorntorp P
Endocrinology. 1984 Jun;114(6):2100-6.
Can J Vet Res. 2000 Oct;64(4):246-8.
J Am Vet Med Assoc. 1997 Sep 15;211(6):719-22
MacDonald PC, Madden JD, Brenner PF, Wilson JD, Siiteri PK 1979 Origin of estrogen in normal men and in women with testicular feminization. J Clin Endocrinol Metab 49:905–916
Agents Actions. 1994 Mar;41(1-2):37-43.
Sex Hormone Binding Globulin response to the Anabolic steroid: Stanozolol: Evidence for its suitability as a Biological Androgen Sensitivity test. J Clin Metab Endocrinol 68: 1195, 1989)
The Journal of Clinical Endocrinology & Metabolism Vol. 87,No. 2 530-539. An Effective Hormonal Male Contraceptive Using Testosterone Undecanoate with Oral or Injectable Norethisterone Preparations Axel Kamischke, Tanja Heuermann, Kathrin Krüger, Sigrid von Eckardstein, Ilka Schellschmidt, Alexander Rübig and Eberhard Nieschlag Institute of Reproductive Medicine of the University (A.K., T.H., K.K., S.V.E., E.N.), D-48129 Münster, Germany; and Schering AG (I.S., A.R.), D-13342 Berlin, Germany
Non-sex hormone-binding globulin-bound testosterone as a marker for hyperandrogenism DC Cumming and SR Wall J. Clin. Endocrinol. Metab., Nov 1985; 61: 873 - 876.
Menstrual Irregularity in Women with Acr*****ly G. A. Kaltsas, J. J. Mukherjee, P. J. Jenkins, M. A. Satta, N. Islam, J. P. Monson, G. M. Besser, and A. B. GrossmanJ. Clin. Endocrinol. Metab., Aug 1999; 84: 2731 – 2735
JAMA. 1989 Feb 24;261(8):1165-8
Thank you for the educated responses.
For those that feel a need to knock someone just because you're a fuc**ing tool bag pro go fu** yourself.
I do have one question. Does anyone know where I can buy syringes that are proper size for winstrol? The tube part are too big to get the exact measurement in.
By the way I injected it.
And by the way everyone has a first cycle, remember you were here where I am once also and all you wanted was for someone to give you straight forward answers to your questions. I read and read and read articles but still the medical speak is not something I always understand. So please when giving an a$$hole response to someone on their first cycle on this board remember you once had these same questions.
chill bro you got your answer...ignor the new peeps there just trying to get involved and advise when they really should hang here and do a lot of reasurch before doing so....the paroting here has reached new levels....when someone posts in your thread check out there join date and although that dosent mean the member has no experience just be aware that there advise may be subpar....no need to get your nickers in a twist...
I know I know... Just come here because its the only place I can talk about this shit with people who know what they're talking about. Yes I did my research but still a lot of times the real information comes from people who have done it.
One question. So Im having trouble finding the right syringe for Winstrol. All the syringes I find hold 3cc and I know that with winstrol the dosage is only about 50 mg which means half of one of those lines on the 3cc tube. Is there somewhere where I can get a smaller tube?
what is the concentration of the winstrol?
as for the frustration with the posts, I understand. it seems to be at an all-time high lately, guys join, some guys post questions that reflect their lack of experience, which is fine. what is NOT fine is that many of these same guys feel compelled to respond to other people's threads where they have no experience whatsoever and are just repeating what they heard, which was likely from someone else repeating what they heard, etc.
we have guys who have been doing this for a long, long time, and who are here just about every day answering questions from experience. you will also notice that guys like myself will not answer questions where we don't have personal experience. in this very thread there were guys who answered your question, even though it's clear they didn't know the answer.
Big you're definitely right. I always have great appreciation for the guys that answer my questions in an educated way. They speak from experience and I appreciate it. It's just this shit where guys want to look tough so they act like I'm some little idiot asking a question without doing research when in reality I have done a lot of research it's just that there is such a wide array of conflicting information and you never know what to believe, what is true, what is not.Quote:
Originally Posted by Big
This is exactly what the bottle says: 100 mg/mL. Stanazol suspension 10 ml sterile multidose vial.
ok, well 100mg/ml means that .5ml, or half a ml will be 50mg. one half of one ml should be easy to measure on a 3cc syringe. 1ml=1cc, so you would draw half way to the "1" on the syringe.
injectible winny from my experience is painful. I have purchased injectable winny in large quanity several times times. each time I get about 3 or 4 weeks in and end up giving up and I drink it. I got tired of being sore somewhere at all times.
I have noticed very little difference in effects. If anything I prefer taking it orally. so it has not been a big deal for me if I have to switch it up.
Oh damn! I thought 1 ml=1000 MG so I had been doing 1/2 of one line on the way to "1" on the syringe! Shit! Why did I not know this. I feel like a ****ing idiot. So just so I know exactly what it means: 100mg/ml means that in 1 ml of the bottle there is only 100 mg of winstrol its not pure because its mixed with something to make it injectable?Quote:
Originally Posted by Big
yeah all injectable compounds will list the concentration, 100mg/ml means 1cc will give you 100mg of the compound. 250mg/ml means 1cc will give you 250mg of the compound, etc.Quote:
Originally Posted by imwithgreen
injecting winny is not so bad. stop complane about it. and just do it. u guys joke or do u realy mean this ?? i have done som winny cycles erlier. and i had no problem at all. i agree to a litel pain. but test prop is more painful if u ask me.. by the way i have been reading so alot about this. and it seams that the new way to do winny. is by drinking it. so i will maby give it a try next time.
You should probably just abort this cycle and start again later when you understand concepts like volume, mass, concentration, and the metric system.Quote:
Originally Posted by imwithgreen
Yeah I've been shooting it and it's not really been bad at all. To be honest it feels like a bad bruise. I don't know if maybe I just got a really good winni but for me it's not near as bad as everyone says and I almost wish I hadn't read so many times that it was so bad because it's just not the case for me.Quote:
Originally Posted by Family Guy
When you guys have drank the winny, do you mix it with anything? I heard you're supposed to mix it with fruit juice in a shot glass. Helps absorb it better or something along those lines.
Well, there's some studies showing that a chemical in grapefruit juice inhibits the CYP3A4 enzyme.Quote:
Originally Posted by topshelf75
Grapefruit juice will inhibit this enzyme, allowing for a greater bio-availability...but not with ALL steroids.
I've only seen studies showing it's effectiveness with dbol and halo.
Haven't seen anything on its effects on winny.
Metabolism of anabolic steroids in humans: synthesis of 6 beta-hydroxy metabolites of 4-chloro-1,2-dehydro-17 alpha-methyltestosterone, fluoxymesterone, and metandienone.
Schänzer W, Horning S, Donike M.
Institut für Biochemie, Deutschen Sporthochschule Köln, Germany.
Hydroxylation at position 6 beta testosterone I (17 beta-hydroxyandrost-4-en-3-one) and the anabolic steroids 17 alpha-methyltestosterone II (17 beta-hydroxy-17 alpha-methylandrost-4-en-3-one), metandienone III (17 beta-hydroxy-17 alpha-methylandrosta-1,4-dien-3-one), 4-chloro-1,2-dehydro-17 alpha-methyltestosterone IV (4-chloro-17 beta-hydroxy-17 alpha-methylandrosta-1,4-dien-3-one), and fluoxymesterone V (9-fluoro-11 beta, 17 beta-dihydroxy-17 alpha-methylandrost-4-en-3-one) was achieved via light-induced autooxidation of the corresponding trimethysilyl 3,5-dienol ethers dissolved in isopropanol or ethanol. The reaction further yielded the 6 alpha-hydroxy isomer in low amounts. The 6 beta-hydroxy isomer of I-V and the 6 alpha-hydroxy isomers of I, III, and IV were isolated and characterized by 1H and 13C NMR, high-performance liquid chromatography, gas chromatography, and mass spectrometry. Human excretion studies with single administered doses of boldenone (17 beta-hydroxyandrosta-1,4-dien-3-one), 4-chloro-1,2-dehydro-17 alpha-methyltestosterone, fluoxymesterone, metandienone, 17 alpha-methyltestosterone, and [16,16,17-2H3] testosterone showed that 6 beta-hydroxylation is the major metabolic pathway in the metabolism of 4-chloro-1,2-dehydro-17 alpha-methyltestosterone, fluoxymesterone, and metandienone, whereas for boldenone, 17 alpha-methyltestosterone, and testosterone, 6 beta-hydroxylation is negligible.
Metabolism of anabolic steroids by recombinant human cytochrome P450 enzymes. Gas chromatographic-mass spectrometric determination of metabolites.
Rendic S, Nolteernsting E, Schänzer W.
Faculty of Pharmacy and Biochemistry, University of Zagreb, Croatia.
Metabolism of steroid hormones with anabolic properties was studied in vitro using human recombinant CYP3A4, CYP2C9 and 2B6 enzymes. The enzyme formats used for CYP3A4 and CYP2C9 were insect cell microsomes expressing human CYP enzymes and purified recombinant human CYP enzymes in a reconstituted system. CYP3A4 enzyme formats incubated with anabolic steroids, testosterone, 17alpha-methyltestosterone, metandienone, boldenone and 4-chloro-1,2-dehydro-17alpha-methyltestosterone, produced 6beta-hydroxyl metabolites identified as trimethylsilyl (TMS)-ethers by a gas chromatography-mass spectrometry (GC-MS) method. When the same formats of CYP2C9 were incubated with the anabolic steroids, no 6beta-hydroxyl metabolites were formed. Human lymphoblast cell microsomes expressing human CYP2B6 incubated with the steroids investigated produced traces of 6beta-hydroxyl metabolites with testosterone and 17alpha-methyltestosterone only. We suggest that the electronic effects of the 3-keto-4-ene structural moiety contribute to the selectivity within the active site of CYP3A4 enzyme resulting in selective 6beta-hydroxylation.PMID: 10630892 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE
I think if you wanted an oral,,you should have got tabs.They are also far cheaper than injectable WINSTROL.Quote:
Originally Posted by imwithgreen
For those that have drank your winny before, how do you go about drinking it? do you mix it up with anything and drink it? I tried drinking it without mixing and I thought my throat was going to close up or something it stung so bad.
yeah I wack it with grape juice chaser. I actually fill up my mouth with grape juice first then squirt the winny in. I just like grape juice and it is usually really sweet so it cuts that brutal taste