first cycle want to be like an old school pro!

**...aydn...** · 07-05-2010, 07:41 PM

Ok well first of all i am already a competitive bodybuilder.
Need reccomendations for my first cycle. I have a pretty comprehensive knowledge of p.c.t ect as iv been researching this for a couple years.

GOAL= I have the desire to look like an old pro, something like Zane, serge nugret, chriss dickerson, tom plats, or mike mentzer.. i dont want to be freaky deaky gross large like something like todays bodybuilders, but i want to have massive legs like old tommy's.

PLAN= train "heavy duty" programs, micro periodised with high volume programs.
Diet is already locked in so i do not need to discus that.
Considering this cycle-

sus250 1-10 weeks 750mg pw
Deca 1-10 weeks 500mg pw
Letro 1-10 weeks .25 mg
Pramipexole 1-10 weeks .50 mg

p.c.t
novadex xt, inhibit e. 1 month each

hehehehehe jks jks

nolva- days 1-14 (60 mg) 14-28 (40 mg) 28-32 (20 mg)
clomid same as nolva but 20mg higher.
letro .5 mg tapering down until neccersary
Prami .5 mg until bottle ends.
Suppress C- 1 month

dream= to eventually be like one of the above i have mentioned. and compete in the nabba next year in juniors and eventually get my pro card.

ill attach a pic of myself around last competition time.

My stats are-
age- 20
weight- 93kg
height- 5'10
bf- 10%

if anyone can let me source check them let me know. please no one message me with places to buy gear im not trying to attract any scammers.. cheers bro's let me know your honest opinions..

**slimshady01** · 07-05-2010, 08:17 PM

sold base bro.

**Jbert22** · 07-05-2010, 08:17 PM

I'd say wait a few years. But it's ur body that's up to u. Also run the test a few weeks past the deca .

**P3rf3ctionist** · 07-05-2010, 08:27 PM

Originally Posted by ...aydn...

Ok well first of all i am already a competitive bodybuilder.
Need reccomendations for my first cycle. I have a pretty comprehensive knowledge of p.c.t ect as iv been researching this for a couple years.

GOAL= I have the desire to look like an old pro, something like Zane, serge nugret, chriss dickerson, tom plats, or mike mentzer.. i dont want to be freaky deaky gross large like something like todays bodybuilders, but i want to have massive legs like old tommy's.

PLAN= train "heavy duty" programs, micro periodised with high volume programs.
Diet is already locked in so i do not need to discus that.
Considering this cycle-

sus250 1-10 weeks 750mg pw
Deca 1-10 weeks 500mg pw
Letro 1-10 weeks .25 mg
Pramipexole 1-10 weeks .50 mg

p.c.t
novadex xt, inhibit e. 1 month each

hehehehehe jks jks

nolva- days 1-14 (60 mg) 14-28 (40 mg) 28-32 (20 mg)
clomid same as nolva but 20mg higher.
letro .5 mg tapering down until neccersary
Prami .5 mg until bottle ends.
Suppress C- 1 month

dream= to eventually be like one of the above i have mentioned. and compete in the nabba next year in juniors and eventually get my pro card.

ill attach a pic of myself around last competition time.

My stats are-
age- 20
weight- 93kg
height- 5'10
bf- 10%

if anyone can let me source check them let me know. please no one message me with places to buy gear im not trying to attract any scammers.. cheers bro's let me know your honest opinions..

A very solid base. However at 20 you've made great progress so far so maybe holding off for another 3-4 years to see where you can go naturally would put you in an even better position. That would be my honest advice to you, however, if you insist on cycling regardless of the advice you're going to get from some of the more members with years of experience i'd personally ditch the sus as it has too many esters and would require frequent injections for stable plasma levels, I'd stick with a one ester testosterone like enan or cyp.

Also Letro is a very powerful anti-estro and is usually reserved if estro sides surface or gyno symptoms appear so personally i'd have it on hand but I wouldn't use it unless it was needed.

Hope this helps.

Good luck.

**jordann** · 07-05-2010, 08:31 PM

Originally Posted by P3rf3ctionist

A very solid base. However at 20 you've made great progress so far so maybe holding off for another 3-4 years to see where you can go naturally would put you in an even better position. That would be my honest advice to you, however, if you insist on cycling regardless of the advice you're going to get from some of the more members with years of experience i'd personally ditch the sus as it has too many esters and would require frequent injections for stable plasma levels, I'd stick with a one ester testosterone like enan or cyp.

Also Letro is a very powerful anti-estro and is usually reserved if estro sides surface or gyno symptoms appear so personally i'd have it on hand but I wouldn't use it unless it was needed.

Hope this helps.

Good luck.

True. I also wouldn't use letro in PCT since estrogen rebound can occur. My advice would be nolva/clomid/hcg .

**P3rf3ctionist** · 07-05-2010, 08:35 PM

Originally Posted by jordann

True. I also wouldn't use letro in PCT since estrogen rebound can occur. My advice would be nolva/clomid/hcg.

Agreed, rule of thumb is not to use competitive inhibitors aromatase enzyme because of the possibility of rebound and agreed with the nolva/clomid/hcg for PCT.

**Bonaparte** · 07-06-2010, 03:02 AM

Go with a simpler, safer first cycle.

Test E for 10-12 weeks at 500mgs
PCT (starting 12 days after last injection):
20mg Nolva for 30 days
50mg Clomid for 30 days

I would recommend Aromasin and hCG on cycle.

19-nors are extremely suppressive and can have tricky side effects, due to being progestins. Wait a few years before messing with them.

**lovbyts** · 07-06-2010, 03:09 AM

Wow a lot of newbies giving advice to a YOUNG kid.

Just because he has a very good base does not change his biological age or the fact that his natural test levels are at their peak and will be for the next several years or that his growth plates are not yet closes/fused and he would be risking loosing the potential to grow more.

His base does not change any of the basic rules, he is still potentially risking causing more harm than good. Stick around are read all the stories especially of people under 25 who did everything perfect with PCT but still ended up having ED issues or had SEVER acne all due to unstable hormonal levels under 24/25.

Your body is still growing naturally. You have shown you can do a lot without the use of AAS and you can still do a lot more. We have some guys here who are 100% natural who are BIG and you can learn from them.

Read up on the diet section although I'm sure you have diet down realy good Im sure you know it never hurts to tweak it a little and there is always more to learn. Look at the memebers picture forum and you will find some guys who are natural you may want to pick their brain.

Dont jump into AAS yet. You may decide to do a compitition soon and if they do testing you are screwed. Why risk all that hard work?

**Bonaparte** · 07-06-2010, 03:18 AM

Originally Posted by lovbyts

Wow a lot of newbies giving advice to a YOUNG kid.

Just because he has a very good base does not change his biological age or the fact that his natural test levels are at their peak and will be for the next several years or that his growth plates are not yet closes/fused and he would be risking loosing the potential to grow more.

I would normally agree, but he is already competing and dedicated.
Since he is going down the untested path, he will likely end up on TRT after a few years no matter what age he starts at
(opinions will vary on this, but I know a bunch of guys who compete and being on Tren and/or Deca most of the year will quickly ruin most HPTAs).
As long as that is what he wants to do with his life, I don't think that telling him that he might mess up his endocrine system and miss out on a few
pounds of natural potential is going to dissuade him. I tried to do my part by advising against the Deca.

**lovbyts** · 07-06-2010, 03:26 AM

Originally Posted by Bonaparte

I would normally agree, but he is already competing and dedicated.
Since he is going down the untested path, he will likely end up on TRT after a few years no matter what age he starts at
(opinions will vary on this, but I know a bunch of guys who compete and being on Tren and/or Deca most of the year will quickly ruin most HPTAs).
As long as that is what he wants to do with his life, I don't think that telling him that he might mess up his endocrine system and miss out on a few
pounds of natural potential is going to dissuade him. I tried to do my part by advising against the Deca.

I disagree, I have been here long enough to see that even if 100 of them decide to go down that path anyways there are those 1 or 2 who have a little more brains/common sense and we can change their mind. It's worth the effort to save the 1 or 2 from making the same mistake to many have.

I was one of those who ALMOST used at 18-20 many times but got lucky and each time at the last minute either got talked out of it or decided not to. Granted I did not look like him but I was in good shape. If I know how to eat/diet I would have had some good size.

It's worth giving them the reasons NOT to do any and if they really decide to make them do the research to find out what to do.

Just because someone is going to do something does not mean it's ok for you to be the enabler. I know several kids who are 17+ who drink. I will pick them up from parties if they get stranded or need a ride due to their ride is drunk but I draw the line at I will NOT buy them even one beer.

**G4R** · 07-06-2010, 03:46 AM

Competitive or not, he is 20. Solid base or not, he is 20. It doesnt matter how 'ready' he is mentally, or physically (in his build), he is still producing mass amounts of natural testosterone .

"There is a risk of permanently damaging your HPTA if you take AAS to young and you could end up with symptoms of andropause and HRT for life. Symptoms could be Limp dick, low libido, depression, low energy, low endurance, erection problems and many more but.......are these the types of symptoms you want to have in your 20's?. Believe me its hard to cope with these in your 40's yet alone in your prime of your life.

Around this age your Testosterone levels are the highest they going to be in your life naturally, so use what you have and don't take the risk of damage, I am passionate about this because ive seen it many times with young kids wanting to looking like their heroes and they think the answer is in an injection/tablet.

Taking AAS to young can also cause problems with development, one other main problem is premature sealing of your epiphyeal bone and the consequences mean that you wont grow as big as your genetics could allow you to, there is a test which can be done to see if your growth plates have sealed yet but the average age is around 21yrs old."

Even though he may be going down the "untested path", what if something happens? Maybe he isnt competitive for the rest of his life, and he may ruin something health wise because of the advice being giving to him here.

OP, you do have a great base. You appear to be greatly dedicated to this, but listen, dont take a chance here. What a few more years for your body to fully develop. You want to look and be your best? Then do it the right way.

**flexandex** · 07-06-2010, 04:05 AM

how long have you been training man?
what are your measurements?

You have a veryy nice physique, awesome legs!

At 5'10 with your frame you deffinitely have room to grow much more naturally, bring up your weak areas and shed some more bodyfat. I wanted to accelerate my growth aswell (im a year younger andd 10kg lighter, how silly.) but i decided to hold back due to the natural growth still left in me.

You have the potential to be 'great' naturally in the next few years, steroids will then take you to amazing. Isn't that better than using now, and going from good to just 'great'?

Think about how hard it would be psychologically if you were to use steroids now, get to a 'great level' and then try and reach amazing naturally.. it won't happen, it will result in more cycles, and more risk.

Oh and as was mentioned, one other point about your growth plates fusing, im 5'9 1/2 and would absolutely love an extra few inchs, 5'10 or 5'11 would just make me so much happier. I have heard mannny stories about people gaining inchs from 20-22, im sure you'd love to be 5'11 or mabey 6'0 on the dot? just like serge.. hes one of my absolute all time favorite physiques aswell

the vets can't stop you, but you are obviously a very smart man, make the right decision.

edit: its serge nubret ! hahaha

**Bonaparte** · 07-06-2010, 03:06 PM

Originally Posted by lovbyts

I disagree, I have been here long enough to see that even if 100 of them decide to go down that path anyways there are those 1 or 2 who have a little more brains/common sense and we can change their mind. It's worth the effort to save the 1 or 2 from making the same mistake to many have.

I guess I overlooked the fact that he only wants to look like an old-school pro. OP, since there is no money in bbing unless you're placing in the Olympia (which is impossible without looking like a freak), you're better off waiting a few years.

**...aydn...** · 07-07-2010, 02:18 AM

wow thanks heaps guys, so much good advice. I think this really has changed my mind.
i might give it a bit more thought before jumping strait into it.
I just feel like the days im having now are like my "golden days" training with my friends and being heaps dedicated and just recently moved into a new place with my GF. Just sorta wanted to take it to the next level and compete in the nabba next year. i really just want to be huge.

**flexandex** · 07-07-2010, 02:48 AM

You've made the right decision man.
You're gona be a monster one day!

**Noles12** · 07-07-2010, 02:54 AM

Originally Posted by ...aydn...

wow thanks heaps guys, so much good advice. I think this really has changed my mind.
i might give it a bit more thought before jumping strait into it.
I just feel like the days im having now are like my "golden days" training with my friends and being heaps dedicated and just recently moved into a new place with my GF. Just sorta wanted to take it to the next level and compete in the nabba next year. i really just want to be huge.

Nice to see the more mature people who actually listen and take the advice given. Good choice and keep training hard. You have already achieved a lot so keep it going