Looking for info on First cycle..

[n00bs]

Hey guys looking for info on first cycle..

23yo
177cm
108kg

Current lifts
squat 1rm 185kg / 407.855 lb

Deadlift 1rm 220kg / 485 lb , 5rm 200kg / 440.924 lb

Bench 120kg / 264 lb

Clean and press 100 kg / 220.462 lb


All lifts performed with a multitude of hormonal **** ups..

Looking for info on a first cycle. No pct is needed as im on trt.

I currently have very low IGF-1... And have adrenal fatique..

Because of low gh and igf01 im not repairing and the fat wont budge so i need something to help me recover gain some mass and just help me along.

HGH replacement is expensive here its abount $1500 a month for 100iu's. So that isnt something i want do although i may need it i would rather get onto some grp6.

Just curious for some test/deca reccomendations.. As i have heard test alone you dont keep much gains? Maybe rumour looking for experience as thats all that counts, results//

Appreciated,

n00bs

[Noles12]

With the extensive knowledge you have shown i would assuem you could at least propose a cycle to be critiqued

[n00bs]

With the extensive knowledge you have shown i would assuem you could at least propose a cycle to be critiqued

Honestly mate, I dont know about juice..

I know about TRT and nutrition and training to get strong..

When it comes to other things I am seirously in the woods so anything would be a guess on my part...

A dr wanted to prescribe me 1000mg test weekly with 300mg deca.

Shoot eod...

Sounds like alot to me..

So i thought i would ask experienced people as this is out of my league and i admit it...

[Noles12]

Where too much for a first cycle. Since yo are on TRT, i would put the test around 500 mg/week. The deca would be good around 300-400 mg/week (some may prefer to go higher but since this is a first cycle i would see how you grow off of these doses)

[BJJ]

Where too much for a first cycle. Since yo are on TRT, i would put the test around 500 mg/week. The deca would be good around 300-400 mg/week (some may prefer to go higher but since this is a first cycle i would see how you grow off of these doses)

...x2

[stevey_6t9]

Honestly mate, I dont know about juice..

I know about TRT and nutrition and training to get strong..

When it comes to other things I am seirously in the woods so anything would be a guess on my part...

A dr wanted to prescribe me 1000mg test weekly with 300mg deca.

Shoot eod...

Sounds like alot to me..

So i thought i would ask experienced people as this is out of my league and i admit it...

is that a typo?

[Noles12]

is that a typo?

If not that is the second person in the last week that i have seen where a doc has recommended a gram of test

[stevey_6t9]

If not that is the second person in the last week that i have seen where a doc has recommended a gram of test

The docs are getting wackier by the minute

[n00bs]

is that a typo?

No mate its not a typo at all... This isnt my Dr btw.. Another Dr.

The only concern i have with a cycle is that my shbg is already low..

[BJJ]

No mate its not a typo at all... This isnt my Dr btw.. Another Dr.

The only concern i have with a cycle is that my shbg is already low..

Could you post your values?

[n00bs]

Cortisol Profile morning 15.2 (6.0-42)
Miday 8.3 (0.0-11)
Afternoon 12.8 (2-11)
Evening 1.5 (1-8)

nmol/L

DHEAs

Morning 18.3 (5.0-30)
DHEA/CORTISOL AM 1.2 (0.2-0.6)

===========================
Results for IGF
IGF-1 39 nmol/L (24-102)
IGFBP3 151 nmol/L (115-265)


Thyroid results ( i believe are masked by adrenal funciton if this is the case thyroid hormones pool in the blood and are not entering cells thus giving serum levels that everything is ok..
TSH - 1.67mU/L (0.40-3.5
ft4 14.8pmol/L (9.0-19.00)
ft3 4.7 pmol/L (2.6-6.0)

Oestradiol 61pmol/l <160
Testosterone 28.0 nmol/L (11.5-32) (50mg testogel daily without it 4.3nmol/L)
SHBG 12 nmol/L* 15-50
FAI 233.3* % (15-100)

[BJJ]

Cortisol Profile morning 15.2 (6.0-42)
Miday 8.3 (0.0-11)
Afternoon 12.8 (2-11)
Evening 1.5 (1-8)

nmol/L

DHEAs

Morning 18.3 (5.0-30)
DHEA/CORTISOL AM 1.2 (0.2-0.6)

===========================
Results for IGF
IGF-1 39 nmol/L (24-102)
IGFBP3 151 nmol/L (115-265)


Thyroid results ( i believe are masked by adrenal funciton if this is the case thyroid hormones pool in the blood and are not entering cells thus giving serum levels that everything is ok..
TSH - 1.67mU/L (0.40-3.5
ft4 14.8pmol/L (9.0-19.00)
ft3 4.7 pmol/L (2.6-6.0)

Oestradiol 61pmol/l <160
Testosterone 28.0 nmol/L (11.5-32) (50mg testogel daily without it 4.3nmol/L)
SHBG 12 nmol/L* 15-50
FAI 233.3* % (15-100)

Interesting, thanks.

Two Questions here:

Why did not you check also TBG?
What is FAI?

[n00bs]

Interesting, thanks.

Two Questions here:

Why did not you check also TBG?
What is FAI?

FAI is free androgen index it measures androgens that are well FREE lol.. Subtracts shbg and other binding proteins albumin ect and shows you a ratio that is free.. I think i have a good raito there..

Didnt do TBG as it was hard enough getting t3 and t4 in this country other wise they only do TSH and if that is fine miraculously you have no problem..

Totally retarded thinking because if that was the case we should only measure testosterone from LH and if LH is fine then testosterone must be fine right? Beep wrong their morons.. We know many people have normal LH vlaues and below range testosterone (myself included. )

I could get the test done myself but i dont have the cash at the moment.. I just spent 120 on saliva cortisol testing (as they believe only 1 draw in the morning is adequate what rubbish!) also i got an iGG food intolerence test. Thats about 300... Also i need to order a 24h urinary GH test thats like 300 again..

Im a student who works 1-2 days a week.. Cash is strapped at the moment..

[BJJ]

FAI is free androgen index it measures androgens that are well FREE lol.. Subtracts shbg and other binding proteins albumin ect and shows you a ratio that is free.. I think i have a good raito there..

Didnt do TBG as it was hard enough getting t3 and t4 in this country other wise they only do TSH and if that is fine miraculously you have no problem..

Totally retarded thinking because if that was the case we should only measure testosterone from LH and if LH is fine then testosterone must be fine right? Beep wrong their morons.. We know many people have normal LH vlaues and below range testosterone (myself included. )

I could get the test done myself but i dont have the cash at the moment.. I just spent 120 on saliva cortisol testing (as they believe only 1 draw in the morning is adequate what rubbish!) also i got an iGG food intolerence test. Thats about 300... Also i need to order a 24h urinary GH test thats like 300 again..

Im a student who works 1-2 days a week.. Cash is strapped at the moment..

Well, I am glad you are on of those who recognize the importance of blood work.
Keep it up.

[n00bs]

Well, I am glad you are on of those who recognize the importance of blood work.
Keep it up.

I have suffered with my problems for 12 years or so...

I diagnosed myself with secondary hypogonadism my gp wouldnt even test me at first, then he refused to test my e2 as he said oestrogen cant make you fat.. Lol i laughed and left. I just get so frustrated with retarded dr's...

Want something done right you do it yourself..

[BJJ]

I have suffered with my problems for 12 years or so...

I diagnosed myself with secondary hypogonadism my gp wouldnt even test me at first, then he refused to test my e2 as he said oestrogen cant make you fat.. Lol i laughed and left. I just get so frustrated with retarded dr's...

Want something done right you do it yourself..

You are young but already understood one of the basement of a personal success.

[stevey_6t9]

No mate its not a typo at all... This isnt my Dr btw.. Another Dr.

The only concern i have with a cycle is that my shbg is already low..

why are you concerned about low shbg?

using aas will raise it 2 fold after 8 weeks.

[n00bs]

why are you concerned about low shbg?

using aas will raise it 2 fold after 8 weeks.

SHBG usually rises with high oestrogen usually however everything have read and spoken to regarding other people on my TRT board says Testosterone actualy suppresses shbg...

So test will increase e2 but i will need adex to keep e2 down thus suppress shbg..

I know it sounds weird test suppressing but oestrogen increasing.. Because increased test usually means increased e2 so you would think shbg would rise.. Very confusing

[BJJ]

why are you concerned about low shbg?

using aas will raise it 2 fold after 8 weeks.

The SHBG (sex hormone binding serum) is a beta-globulin produced in the liver in a position to tie estrogens, androgens (testosterone) and progestins in their transit in the blood stream; the function of SHBG is to make unavailable these hormones to the action of catabolic enzymes. It is also an important factor in the regulation of balance of the sex hormones. In fact oestrogen stimulates strongly the production of SHBG, the androgens have opposite effect for which a rate increase estrogen causes a reduction in the free testosterone, the reverse occurs in the case of an increase of androgens. Increases in patients with hyperthyroidism unlike of patients with resistance device to thyroid hormones that generally have normal levels of SHBG. In these cases the dosage of SHBG can be useful as the index of the response device to thyroid hormones. In men the ipoandrogenism and gynecomastia are often associated with high values of SHBG; while the obesity of both males and females present a decrease in levels of SHBG.

Those are the reason why he is rightly concerned.

[stevey_6t9]

SHBG usually rises with high oestrogen usually however everything have read and spoken to regarding other people on my TRT board says Testosterone actualy suppresses shbg...

So test will increase e2 but i will need adex to keep e2 down thus suppress shbg..

I know it sounds weird test suppressing but oestrogen increasing.. Because increased test usually means increased e2 so you would think shbg would rise.. Very confusing

i understand, so let me get this right...

your worried your shbg will dip to low because of the exogenous test?

i personally dont think this will hapen if thats the case.

0.25mg of adex eod will not lower your e2 levels enough to kill your shbg IMO. Its not letro.

[n00bs]

i understand, so let me get this right...

your worried your shbg will dip to low because of the exogenous test?

i personally dont think this will hapen if thats the case.

0.25mg of adex eod will not lower your e2 levels enough to kill your shbg IMO. Its not letro.

Every one is different, On other boards we have seen DIM kill e2 levels, we have seen dim increase e2 levels, we have seen .25mg arimidex eod flatline e2...

Cant tell how the body is going to react unless you do it... The problem with low shbg is test wont last long in my body.. less then 24 hours after applicaiton im at about 4nmol thats LLOOWWW.. it should be atleast 12 or so..

So i am worried about /\/\/\/\/\/ this with my mood from low to high test since i am already predisposed to anxiety depression ect.. I would have to shoot everyday i suppose..

Just trying to look at every possible angle before i go ahead with something.

Im scared i wont ever want to come off.

[stevey_6t9]

Every one is different, On other boards we have seen DIM kill e2 levels, we have seen dim increase e2 levels, we have seen .25mg arimidex eod flatline e2...

Cant tell how the body is going to react unless you do it... The problem with low shbg is test wont last long in my body.. less then 24 hours after applicaiton im at about 4nmol thats LLOOWWW.. it should be atleast 12 or so..

So i am worried about /\/\/\/\/\/ this with my mood from low to high test since i am already predisposed to anxiety depression ect.. I would have to shoot everyday i suppose..

Just trying to look at every possible angle before i go ahead with something.

Im scared i wont ever want to come off.

everyone has a 'balance' level and you just gota find it. i went as high as 0.5mg ed during my simple test e 500mg cycle whilst my buddy was chillen on 0.25 e3d.

And yes you will prob cruise and blast for a long time lol

[Swifto]

why are you concerned about low shbg?

using aas will raise it 2 fold after 8 weeks.

Where do you get this rubbish mate?

AAS will lower SHBG, even exogenous testosterone in a dose respondant manner.


Edit: I'll add this for you to stevey.

In this study, when eugondal men were given graded doses of exognenous testosterone weekly of 25, 50, 125, 300, or 600 mg of testosterone enanthate for 20 weeks.

"Serum SHBG levels decreased dose dependently at the 300- and 600-mg doses but did not change in other groups".


See Table 2. Here's what it states:

In the 125mg/wk TE group, SHBG declined from 33.1 ± 4.2, to 28.9 ± 3.8. A change of -4.2 ± 2.6.

In the 300mg/wk TE group, SHBG declined from 31.4 ± 3.8, to 22.4 ± 3.9. A change of -9.1 ± 3.7 .

In the 600mg/wk TE group, SHBG declined from 40.1 ± 4.9, to 20.6 ± 3.2. A change of -19.5 ± 2.8.




Thats normal men, like you and I, on graded doses of Test Enan. SHBG was reduced over 20 weeks.

[n00bs]

Thought so...

**** its 440am andi cant sleep.. Benelike this all week its ****ing ridiculous. Im not going to recover from workouts

[Swifto]

SHBG is of no concern to use AAS user's, 99% of the time. The total androgen amount/load will compensate.